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Why not a women American president?

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Why not a women American president?

Unread postby Bill the Butcher » Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:37 am

I don't have any exact or even approximate statistics, but I'm willing to assume that the majority of the United States population would rather have a man be president than a woman.

So I ask specifically... why not a women president? Why don't we take the chance?

Comments, concerns, insults?
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Unread postby Ziner » Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:02 pm

I honestly would not have a problem voting for a woman. What I dont want is someone to become a president because they are a woman... same with an african american, should they be qualified who cares. But being a woman, african american, catholic, jewish etc should not gain someone additional votes. It does but it shouldnt.

For example this election I did not have a problem with a woman being president, I have a problem with Hillary Clinton being president. I dont have a problem with a Black man/woman being president, but I have a problem with Barack Obama being president.
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Unread postby Bill the Butcher » Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:04 pm

I know exactly what you're talking about, Ziner. And everybody else should know this as well. It sucks... but that's the way it is. Can it be changed? Anything is possible. Will it be changed? I doubt it.
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Unread postby Ziner » Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:08 pm

Bill the Butcher wrote:I know exactly what you're talking about, Ziner. And everybody else should know this as well. It sucks... but that's the way it is. Can it be changed? Anything is possible. Will it be changed? I doubt it.


No it wont change. On the same token, McCain will get a ton of votes because he is a white male. So I suppose it balances out on the whole, however I refuse to take any thing like that in to account in my choices of who to support.

This year however is going to be a waste... not that I am in love with him, but a vote for McCain in IL is like a vote for Obama in Utah. Pointless.
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Re: Why not a women American president?

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:17 pm

Bill the Butcher wrote:I don't have any exact or even approximate statistics, but I'm willing to assume that the majority of the United States population would rather have a man be president than a woman.

So I ask specifically... why not a women president? Why don't we take the chance?

Comments, concerns, insults?


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Re: Why not a women American president?

Unread postby Bill the Butcher » Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:34 pm

British_Pharaoh wrote:
Bill the Butcher wrote:I don't have any exact or even approximate statistics, but I'm willing to assume that the majority of the United States population would rather have a man be president than a woman.

So I ask specifically... why not a women president? Why don't we take the chance?

Comments, concerns, insults?


Cos America is clever enough to learn from the mistake of Maggie Thatcher


But not the mistakes of multiple guy presidents?
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Re: Why not a women American president?

Unread postby skatingtripods » Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:06 pm

Bill the Butcher wrote:But not the mistakes of multiple guy presidents?


How many times has a woman been nominated by a major party to run for President?
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Re: Why not a women American president?

Unread postby Bill the Butcher » Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:24 pm

Skating Tripods wrote:
Bill the Butcher wrote:But not the mistakes of multiple guy presidents?


How many times has a woman been nominated by a major party to run for President?


Zero, if I'm not mistaken. What's your point?
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Re: Why not a women American president?

Unread postby skatingtripods » Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:10 pm

Bill the Butcher wrote:Zero, if I'm not mistaken. What's your point?


Why would Americans vote for a woman for President if one has not been nominated?
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Re: Why not a women American president?

Unread postby Bill the Butcher » Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:26 pm

Skating Tripods wrote:
Bill the Butcher wrote:Zero, if I'm not mistaken. What's your point?


Why would Americans vote for a woman for President if one has not been nominated?


Ah, I see what you're trying to say. You must've misunderstood me. I'm not talking about the particular election coming up, I'm just talking about in general.

This arose because I was thinking of what a couple of my friends said, about them voting for Obama over Hillary just because he's a man.
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Unread postby pup » Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:06 pm

Cuz someone would get nuked every 29 days?
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Re: Why not a women American president?

Unread postby skatingtripods » Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:08 pm

Bill the Butcher wrote:Ah, I see what you're trying to say. You must've misunderstood me. I'm not talking about the particular election coming up, I'm just talking about in general.

This arose because I was thinking of what a couple of my friends said, about them voting for Obama over Hillary just because he's a man.


Right. I am also talking about in general. If a woman won't get nominated by the party, why would a woman become President?

Well for some reasons, since that's what you want...

For 4-6 days every month, 3/4 of the world would be in danger of being bombed. When her term was up, she would take 1/2 of everything that was in the White House. She wouldn't do personal appearances with a bad hair day. We would never be able to negotiate with other nations because she would always be right and have to get her way. Other nations would be emasculated and leave the negotiating table pissed off and spiteful. She couldn't cook with her busy schedule, so the men in the White House would always have to call for take out.

Should I keep going?
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Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:30 pm

I honestly would not have a problem voting for a woman. What I dont want is someone to become a president because they are a woman... same with an african american, should they be qualified who cares. But being a woman, african american, catholic, jewish etc should not gain someone additional votes. It does but it shouldnt.

For example this election I did not have a problem with a woman being president, I have a problem with Hillary Clinton being president. I dont have a problem with a Black man/woman being president, but I have a problem with Barack Obama being president.


Amen, I'd have to say I'm on board with this same train of thought.
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Unread postby Bill the Butcher » Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:57 pm

Pup wrote:Cuz someone would get nuked every 29 days?


For 4-6 days every month, 3/4 of the world would be in danger of being bombed. When her term was up, she would take 1/2 of everything that was in the White House. She wouldn't do personal appearances with a bad hair day. We would never be able to negotiate with other nations because she would always be right and have to get her way. Other nations would be emasculated and leave the negotiating table pissed off and spiteful. She couldn't cook with her busy schedule, so the men in the White House would always have to call for take out.

Should I keep going?


Is that the sole reason? That's it? Isn't the Vice President then in charge if the President is out due to some medical issue?

I'm sick of those excuses. Besides, isn't that what guy presidents do anyway? Contain the governments power and try to spread it wherever possible? Wouldn't a woman nuking other countries speed up that process?

The way I see; a majority of men do not want to give up the "throne." It's a "man's place." Cut the shit.
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Unread postby mrburns » Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:18 pm

Personally, I'll vote for the best candidate regardless of race, gender, party, favorite ice cream flavor, etc.

However, considering the incredible importance of the Middle East right now, I think having a female leader would pose some very unique challenges. Lots of Americans don't understand how sexist Middle Eastern culture is, by and large.

It's complete bullshit, but women truly are second class citizens over there. It would be far more difficult to deal with many of those countries when their leaders may be predisposed to believing themselves inherently superior to ours. I don't think that being a woman has helped Condoleeza Rice as Secretary of State (in her dealings with the Middle East), as she has served as a glimmer of diplomacy which at times seems to contradict the cowboy diplomacy Bush spews.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:04 pm

I could vote for a woman, black person, whoever if I felt they were the best candidate.

The candidate who advocates a strong military, aggressive foreign policy, smaller, more localized government, less taxes, less regulation, less entitlements, etc is the one who will get my vote. Those who want to add tons of government programs, cap prices, promote excessive taxes, etc will not get my vote.

That's how it works for me.

For instance, I'd vote for Condi Rice but not Hillary Clinton because I don't agree with Clinton's outlook on government. I'd vote for Michael Steel and not Barack Obama because I agree with Steel's outlook on governance.

I don't care what race or gender you are. I care about how you historically govern or what your ideas for government are. I'd never vote for someone because they are black or female and I'd never vote against someone for it either. It's all about ideas for me and never about emotions.
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Unread postby 4thQtrGlory » Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:11 pm

One woman trying to run my life is enough. Period.
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Re: Why not a women American president?

Unread postby JoJo White » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:02 pm

Bill the Butcher wrote:
So I ask specifically... why not a women president? Why don't we take the chance?



Because they're not as smart as men.
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Re: Why not a women American president?

Unread postby Bill the Butcher » Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:00 pm

JoJo White wrote:
Bill the Butcher wrote:
So I ask specifically... why not a women president? Why don't we take the chance?



Because they're not as smart as men.


You being serious?
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Re: Why not a women American president?

Unread postby mrburns » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:48 am

Bill the Butcher wrote:
JoJo White wrote:
Bill the Butcher wrote:
So I ask specifically... why not a women president? Why don't we take the chance?



Because they're not as smart as men.


You being serious?


Obviously...
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:28 pm

Mr. Burns wrote:However, considering the incredible importance of the Middle East right now, I think having a female leader would pose some very unique challenges. Lots of Americans don't understand how sexist Middle Eastern culture is, by and large.


This is the real reason for me. With how volatile some situations are with Middle Eastern countries that view women as second class citizens, I don't see how any woman President would be able to get over that hurdle.

I'll also only vote Republican no matter what, and outside of Condi, there's no other women that have a real shot in the party that I can think of.
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Re: Why not a women American president?

Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:39 pm

British_Pharaoh wrote:
Cos America is clever enough to learn from the mistake of Maggie Thatcher


I wouldn't call Margaret Thatcher a mistake by any means. She was the lone shining light during Britain's slow decline as a nation since 1945. She's also one of the most brilliant people I've had the privilege to meet. Select students from my AP European History course in high school were invited to dine with her when she visited the Tampa Bay area back in 1996, so we got to meet with her in a small group of about a dozen of us for lunch before she gave a speech at an appearance. One of the highlights of my life.

Thatcher actually began to turn the tide back because since 1945 the Britons have done things very un-Britonlike. Greater socialism (something that Cromwell crushed before anyone even knew what socialism and communism were), more government control. It is from our British brethren that we in the United States obtained our love for small government and personal freedom. Things have gone awry in Britain and here as we've turned our backs on our historic roots and the foundations (Judeo-Christian morality, really) upon which our societies have been laid.
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Unread postby buckeye319 » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:43 am

Skating Tripods wrote:
Mr. Burns wrote:However, considering the incredible importance of the Middle East right now, I think having a female leader would pose some very unique challenges. Lots of Americans don't understand how sexist Middle Eastern culture is, by and large.


This is the real reason for me. With how volatile some situations are with Middle Eastern countries that view women as second class citizens, I don't see how any woman President would be able to get over that hurdle.


To this I would say: Tough shit. They can learn to deal with it, and actually, it might lead many in the Islamic world to reconsider their values. Countries like Iran and Pakistan are moderate in many respects, and a woman president could lead to greater freedom if their citizens see the U.S. elect a woman president

I'll also only vote Republican no matter what, and outside of Condi, there's no other women that have a real shot in the party that I can think of.


Indeed.
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:26 pm

buckeye319 wrote:To this I would say: Tough shit. They can learn to deal with it, and actually, it might lead many in the Islamic world to reconsider their values. Countries like Iran and Pakistan are moderate in many respects, and a woman president could lead to greater freedom if their citizens see the U.S. elect a woman president.


The United States electing a woman President would not get them to start accepting women. It would get them laughing at us. Maybe not at the leadership level, but the terrorist propaganda would increase exponentially.

In some regards, they already loathe American values and have pure unadulterated hatred for the U.S. You think that electing a woman President would get them to reconsider anything except how to manipulate us more?

Women are inherently viewed as weaker than men in most facets of life. This is why there is still a pay discrepancy between men and women. Also, men are considered the bread winners. I'm not going to lie, I'd be more concerned in the war on terror with a woman than I would be with a man, even Obama.
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Unread postby buckeye319 » Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:14 pm

Skating Tripods wrote:
buckeye319 wrote:To this I would say: Tough shit. They can learn to deal with it, and actually, it might lead many in the Islamic world to reconsider their values. Countries like Iran and Pakistan are moderate in many respects, and a woman president could lead to greater freedom if their citizens see the U.S. elect a woman president.


The United States electing a woman President would not get them to start accepting women. It would get them laughing at us. Maybe not at the leadership level, but the terrorist propaganda would increase exponentially.

In some regards, they already loathe American values and have pure unadulterated hatred for the U.S. You think that electing a woman President would get them to reconsider anything except how to manipulate us more?

Women are inherently viewed as weaker than men in most facets of life. This is why there is still a pay discrepancy between men and women. Also, men are considered the bread winners. I'm not going to lie, I'd be more concerned in the war on terror with a woman than I would be with a man, even Obama.


I'm not sure who you mean by "they" exactly, but there are large segments of the Muslim world who are moderate, while still others are beginning move in such a direction. It's also undeniable that the U.S. is the world leader, so electing a woman president may (may being a key word) propel democratic, liberal values in the Islamic world.

Islamic fundamentalists certainly would have a problem with it, but they have a problem with everything the West represents. Most importantly, the United States doesn't need to cater to the needs of these fundamentalists - that's why I said tough shit in the first place. In no way should they be shaping our decisions of governance and leadership.

As for a woman being capable to conduct the war on terror, I would not be concerned at all.

I'm not saying we should vote for a woman for the sake of voting for a woman - just saying it could have positive effects on Western values in the Islamic world, and that gender wouldn't effect one's ability to lead.
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Unread postby Bill the Butcher » Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:19 pm

Good post, buckeye319.

I also agree that a woman shouldn't be voted in just because of being a woman.

It's just that when the right candidate comes along, who happens to be a woman as well, it would be killing 2 or 3 or maybe 4 birds with one stone.
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:04 pm

buckeye319 wrote:I'm not sure who you mean by "they" exactly, but there are large segments of the Muslim world who are moderate, while still others are beginning move in such a direction. It's also undeniable that the U.S. is the world leader, so electing a woman president may (may being a key word) propel democratic, liberal values in the Islamic world.

Islamic fundamentalists certainly would have a problem with it, but they have a problem with everything the West represents. Most importantly, the United States doesn't need to cater to the needs of these fundamentalists - that's why I said tough shit in the first place. In no way should they be shaping our decisions of governance and leadership.

As for a woman being capable to conduct the war on terror, I would not be concerned at all.

I'm not saying we should vote for a woman for the sake of voting for a woman - just saying it could have positive effects on Western values in the Islamic world, and that gender wouldn't effect one's ability to lead.


Or a woman President could piss them off and send them directly back into the style that they conducting society toward women.

The U.S. does not need to cater to their needs, obviously, but has to be cognisant of what voting a woman into the highest office in the world would do to our worldwide image.
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Unread postby The Score » Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:07 pm

Skating Tripods wrote:The U.S. does not need to cater to their needs, obviously, but has to be cognisant of what voting a woman into the highest office in the world would do to our worldwide image.


So then it's a good idea to elect a guy with a Muslim name?
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:13 pm

The Score wrote:So then it's a good idea to elect a guy with a Muslim name?


I hate Barack Obama, so no.
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Unread postby The Score » Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:15 pm

Skating Tripods wrote:
The Score wrote:So then it's a good idea to elect a guy with a Muslim name?


I hate Barack Obama, so no.

Obviously.

However, in the abstract it would then be a bonus to elect a guy of color with a muslim name?
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:24 pm

The Score wrote:
Skating Tripods wrote:
The Score wrote:So then it's a good idea to elect a guy with a Muslim name?


I hate Barack Obama, so no.

Obviously.

However, in the abstract it would then be a bonus to elect a guy of color with a muslim name?


At no point did I say anything other than voting a woman in could have serious repercussions with our worldwide image.

Fine, I have a problem with a woman becoming President. I think it looks weak and it's too drastic of a change for a society that has been run for 250 years by men. Along with that, I have serious doubts of a woman's ability to handle the problems in the Middle East where she may not be taken seriously in some societies. That is my most important issue when I discuss politics, so that is a big problem for me.

When a good woman in politics comes along, maybe I'll change my tune. But none of the women I've seen in politics make me think that they could do the job any better than a man.
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Unread postby The Score » Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:36 pm

Skating Tripods wrote:I have serious doubts of a woman's ability to handle the problems in the Middle East where she may not be taken seriously in some societies. That is my most important issue when I discuss politics, so that is a big problem for me.

The middle east is the most important issue and the US should be cognizant of their world image...?

So how about a "muslim guy" with color?
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:52 pm

The Score wrote:Obviously.

However, in the abstract it would then be a bonus to elect a guy of color with a muslim name?


Not necessarily. While I don't subscribe to the "Obama is a Muslim" crazy emails that are full of lies, there may be the perception in the Muslim world that Obama is a lapsed Muslim.

His father was Muslim. His grandfather was. Because of this he would be considered to be born into the religion. His school in Jakarta (not a Madrassa, btw) lists him as a Muslim in their records likely due to his father's status.

This could be a problem because in Islam you cannot convert to another religion. You can convert to Islam but it warrants the death penalty if you try to leave. Remember the Christian convert in Pakistan a few years ago and the uproar in the Muslim world when a prominent Muslim converted to Catholicism a few months ago. Obama could be viewed as worse than an infidel and one worthy of death, so stricter Muslim countries might not want to deal with him, though I'm sure they'd make allowances if he were President. That would not change the attitudes in their populations though and he could be in greater danger when he visits Muslim countries.
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