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No Holds Barred

President in '08?

Need to get something off your chest? Have a topic that doesn't fit one of the other forums? Rant away in here. Mature audiences only, not for the easily offended.

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Re: MDJM Rules

Unread postby Dozen » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:43 pm

PitbullTerrier wrote:The above reply by MDJimmy Mac is the reason I am staying true to Democrats.

I love the people who comprise this party and who follow this party. So much better than the alternative of being lied to while you're being fucked in the ass.

Vote for Hillary and let the healing and prosperity begin.

God Loves MDJM

Good to be on here with you, brother. Actually, I am honored to be on here with you. We need more good people over here, and I won't stop until I get everyone.

PBT


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Seriously

Unread postby PitbullTerrier » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:43 pm

Is this guy a fucking idiot or what?

He thought it was deplorable. Boo fucking hoo, you caddy fag. Here's what's deplorable: a dick like you trying to get fucking fresh on a Rant board. Link us to some of your good shit then, dickwad.

Either that or shut the fuck up.

Grow up and lighten up, fucker. Maybe you'll be able to get laid this century.

PBT

PS. Did this poncy fag actually get riled on a Rant board over being called someone's "little friend"? Fuck you, asshole.
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Funny shit, Dozen

Unread postby PitbullTerrier » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:45 pm

Good stuff, brother!

Oh, I'm sorry.. it was deplorable, and I'm a caddy fag like that Tripod homo.

There you go.

Still that was funny. If you can't laugh at shit, your life sucks like Tripod's.

Fuck that wound up pussy.

PBT
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:47 pm

Useful. Thanks for proving my point.

Swerb, about that ignore feature?
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What a fucking homo

Unread postby PitbullTerrier » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:48 pm

"The sports ones, sure, as this is a sports message board."

Isn't this called "No Hold Barred", you faggot?

A message board for anything goes?

"Swerb, about that ignore feature?"

Don't come here, you fucking weasel. You'll notice that Swerb and Mitch are glad guys like us are here. It means fags like you have to hit the highway, you fucking meek pussy.

Grow up and fucking choke, bitch. I already find you to be a big fag and a waste of flesh. Tell you boyfriend to start fucking you harder in the shitpipe.

PBT

PS. The next time you threaten MDJM or any of my boys, you'll deal with me, cunt.
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Unread postby Dozen » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:50 pm

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I am

Unread postby PitbullTerrier » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:51 pm

I am the original keyboard warrior, brother.

I wasn't attacking you, just that pent-up faggot tripod homo. Where'd you dig that pussy up from?

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Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:51 pm

Skating Tripods wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:Interesting idea. You and the twenty people left on these boards would really have a fun time...

Dude you seriously need to start smoking pot or something. You run around these forums with six broom sticks stuck up your ass at all times.

A fucking mess is what you are.

Geesh, isn't winter break here yet. That dial-up at home will chill you out.


Thanks for chiming in. It was really helpful.

And I don't smoke at all. Thanks, though. As much as I want to take years off my life, I'll leave that to idiots.


Look I never have, nor will I ever defend PBT or MDJM, but you really fly off the leg pretty quick.

It's the fucking internet man.
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:53 pm

I can't say I feel like I flew off the handle. I got flamed for my position because of one person's exception and whatshisname's subsequent rant.

I'll just bow out of this thread until someone gets back to the topic.
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This guy is a tool

Unread postby PitbullTerrier » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:53 pm

From his first mewling reply to me, he's been begging for attention.

Seriously, this fag needs an ignore feature because she actually thinks this is a sports board (No Hold Barred) where people talk about whatever.

Fucking douchebag.

You're still an ok Joe, e0Y. Too bad you have McBride's dick in your ass.

PBT
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Re: I am

Unread postby Dozen » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:53 pm

PitbullTerrier wrote:I am the original keyboard warrior, brother.

I wasn't attacking you, just that pent-up faggot tripod homo. Where'd you dig that pussy up from?

PBT


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No, you're a fucking retard

Unread postby PitbullTerrier » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:54 pm

"I'll just bow out of this thread until someone gets back to the topic."

Don't go away mad, fag. Just go away.

You got flamed because you're an uptight pussy with a big mouth and nothing to back yourself up with. Everything I've read out of you is horrible.

You need to turn off dial-up and get an RX for some Paxil, fag.

Die.

PBT
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Fuck yourself

Unread postby PitbullTerrier » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:56 pm

"Dont care if you were or not, settle down Hillary"

Fuck you, Pat Robertson. You Neocons are all sick in the head, and live in Red states where the temperature is higher than the IQ.

Fuck you and settle this. And seriously, what kind of 'man' has a myspace page? Answer: a pedophile. Good luck with that, Neo-bitch Conservative pansy.

PBT
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Re: Fuck yourself

Unread postby Dozen » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:59 pm

PitbullTerrier wrote:"Dont care if you were or not, settle down Hillary"

Fuck you, Pat Robertson. You Neocons are all sick in the head, and live in Red states where the temperature is higher than the IQ.

Fuck you and settle this.

PBT


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WTF?

Unread postby PitbullTerrier » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:11 pm

Grammar is your friend.

Yeah, avatar smack. Phunky phresh! HOT! Whatever that means? Is that what you homos use at rest stops for code?

PBT
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Re: WTF?

Unread postby Dozen » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:15 pm

PitbullTerrier wrote:Grammar is your friend.

Yeah, avatar smack. Phunky phresh! HOT! Whatever that means? Is that what you homos use at rest stops for code?

PBT


Just like common sense is your friend :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Scortching comeback

Unread postby PitbullTerrier » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:22 pm

The again, if I really didn't have common sense, I would be like you:Grammatically challenged and Republican.

Here's a few of those emoticon things. This just in, dickhead: they don't make your posts funny, they make you look like a fag: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

There you go. That's some shit even a retard like you can assimilate. Good luck in prison, turd. I just hope the little girls and boys you fondle and ruin lives on MySpace forgive you.

Fag pedophile
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Re: Scortching comeback

Unread postby Dozen » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:23 pm

PitbullTerrier wrote:The again, if I really didn't have common sense, I would be like you:Grammatically challenged and Republican.

Here's a few of those emoticon things. This just in, dickhead: they don't make your posts funny, they make you look like a fag: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

There you go. That's some shit even a retard like you can assimilate. Good luck in prison, turd. I just hope the little girls and boys you fondle and ruin lives on MySpace forgive you.

Fag pedophile


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What's even more funny

Unread postby PitbullTerrier » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:27 pm

You had to troll a Gay Forum to find that picture. That's not too gay.

It's OK, fag. Your lifestyle choice is still your own. God will kill you soon enough.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: (Faggy emoticons for the faggy child trolling the forum)

Seriously, do they grow all you children in Mentor/Willow... gay as fuck?

PBT
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:27 pm

Well, this deteriorated quickly.

Congrats Pitbull. You've hijacked your first thread on TCF. I'm sure you will go beat off in a corner with sandpaper now.
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BS

Unread postby PitbullTerrier » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:33 pm

Faggot,

You hijacked this thread when you went off on a tangent about being upset at my boy MDJM. Then your girlfreind up above went and put some Chinese gay picture that he found while trolling Gays R' Us. Hijacking? Seems no one has stood up to a tool like you, but that's over. I am your master now, and you will shut your fucking pie hole and be a good bitch.

I'd slap your bitch ass if we were in person, but I feel I did a good job of shutting you up. Next time you threaten one of my peeps, I am going to call you out and shut you the fuck up. Now...

The next response I see from you better be formatted properly with the respect we deserve from a fag like you. Otherwise, get the fuck out of this forum. The big kids are here, and we don't like you little homos getting all brand new and delicate on us.

Pretty bad when outsiders think you're a bona fide lunatic. Grow up and fucking die already.

Fuck off, troll.

PBT
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Re: BS

Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:36 pm

PitbullTerrier wrote:Fuck off, troll.


Says the new guy who calls everyone a fag.

Your mother must have really fucked up raising you.
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Nope

Unread postby PitbullTerrier » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:38 pm

She raised me right, seeing that I can spot a faggot like you and make you weep like a bitch.

Shut your hole. Either entertain me or cry in your boyfriends man milk. Otherwise, stop humping my leg for attention, fucking moron.

When e0y calls you out, you KNOW you're pretty fucking lame.

PBT
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Re: Nope

Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:40 pm

PitbullTerrier wrote:She raised me right, seeing that I can spot a faggot like you and make you weep like a bitch.

Shut your hole. Either entertain me or cry in your boyfriends man milk. Otherwise, stop humping my leg for attention, fucking moron.

When e0y calls you out, you KNOW you're pretty fucking lame.

PBT


I wouldn't know. I never joined the circle jerking fratnerity known as Scout.

I will say this though. Your mastery of the ability to back up your friends on the internet is inspiring.
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Dude

Unread postby PitbullTerrier » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:42 pm

You're a fucking weepy troll. Quit boring the fuck out of all of us and swallow the cyanide or fetch me a beer.

Either way, the only inspiring or redeeming value you have is making people realize that although their life may suck, they could be you and be a bitter turd stabber.

Go fuck off and die, troll.

PBT
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Unread postby Dozen » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:42 pm

Hey Tripods, who's was big on letting gays in the military? I forget
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:43 pm

Somewhere, Scott Peterson is glad he isn't as much of an asshole as you are.
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:45 pm

Dozen wrote:Hey Tripods, who's was big on letting gays in the military? I forget


That guy who Hillary planted at the GOP Youtube debate. I believe he was also a Democrat.
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Good comeback

Unread postby PitbullTerrier » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:46 pm

I can see how equating a guy who committed murder to a guy who's embarrassed you on a message board is commensurate.

Seriously, you're a whack job.

Fucking die already. Life will be better for you if you died.

PBT
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Re: Good comeback

Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:48 pm

PitbullTerrier wrote:I can see how equating a guy who committed murder to a guy who's embarrassed you on a message board is commensurate.

Seriously, you're a whack job.

Fucking die already. Life will be better for you if you died.

PBT


And I can see how sticking up for someone on an internet message board gives you a power trip in your mind.

Nice of you to wish death on me. The same way Scott Peterson did on his wife and unborn child. You two really aren't that far apart, are you?
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:53 pm

Rich, just delete this thread from the history and let it look like it never happened. It's just reached the level of completely unproductive and I'm tired of trying to play along.
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No

Unread postby PitbullTerrier » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:03 pm

Rich, don't delete anything.

This tool has been exposed for a whiny, bitter whore. That should never be deleted.

And this just in: Wishing death on you is a far cry from actually going out and murdering someone. With you, I just hope you slide under a car or suck Drano.

Scott Peterson killed. You're still a fucking weepy whack job. Fuck off already.

PBT
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Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:35 pm

This topic has fallen to the level of dumb beasts... Dont erase my topic because you people cant argue worth a damn.......assholes

You're blaming Katrina on George W. Bush and the Republicans? Wow. You might have lost all credibility with that. First of all, it is a state issue, not a federal issue. The federal government did what they deemed necessary in terms of providing aid. Ray Nagin and his excuse for a city government completely misappropriated everything. Let's be realistic for a minute. The idiots of New Orleans have re-elected Ray Nagin. Ray Nagin did absolutely nothing beneficial for the city. He got re-elected because he called out Bush and the morons supported him. I think that says something to me about, not only the people, but also the leadership that was in place.


Its not thier fault a hurricane hit but the pathetic response was Bush's fault and your wrong about it being a state issue especially since FEMA was involved and they provided NO support for serveral days leaving the elderly and sick to die. This might be one of the worst rationals i have ever read when you declare a federal disaster area its the federal goverments job to provide aide. But since Bush is a MORON who appoints dumb people to important jobs this is the result. Michael Brown was incharge of Arabian Horses before FEMA.

The Right Wing water carriers have had far too much of an influence on this goverment and the political divide has never been this wide. You could call it the worst administration ever. They lie about Saddam and his weapons. They lie about Valerie Plame, which if you read the law Cheney, Libby, Armitage, and Novak should all be tried for treason and sent to the firing squad.



How can you be pro-immigration? I understand the argument that those people are taking jobs that Americans don't want, but they're also taking American taxpayer money to have their children go to school, to have their medical bills taken care of as illegals. They break all of our laws, while we have no jurisdiction over them. I'm all for LEGAL immigration, but no one takes that step anymore.


Im pro-immigration because without illegals our economy would collapse people would freak out if they had to pay $9 for strawberries and lettuce. Anyone working a 12 hour day for $2 an hour should get free education for thier children aslong as they arent criminal amnesty should be granted. Im a human before Im an American I see people who just want a better life for themselves and im not going to kick them out for that. This NeoCon Xenophobia is a joke assholes like Pat Roberts, Rush Limbaugh, and Jerry Fallwell (How is hell Fatboy?) telling people to support politicans who want to deport all the illegals is a joke. No one else is going to work these jobs.
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Calling a Spade a Spade!

Unread postby MadDawgJimmyMac » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:53 pm

“Keep your former Scout people over there. All they have portrayed themselves to be around here are pompous and arrogant.”


If Mr. Swerb asks me to leave, I will be gonzo immediately. Otherwise, I believe it is still a free world.

“Don't ever call me your "little friend". You have just splattered arrogance all over your post with comments like that.”


OK little buddy. Got ya. As to splashing arrogance, I suggest you look in the mirror.

“You are an exception because you have shown a big difference. Cancer and incurable diseases are huge differences.”


One exception of many. My daughter attends a support group full of people who have had this type of experience.

“By the way, asshole, I am by no means spoiled, I don't attend church, and nothing I have said is presumptuous. Just because you are the exception doesn't mean that what I have isn't applicable to a vast majority of people who don't have health care and who want socialism in the United States.”


As to you being spoiled, you have your opinion, I have mine. Of which we are both entitled. And why does not an exception (quite a common one I might add – or have you never heard of “catastrophic illnesses”?) equate to the vast majority. You have some facts, some links to support that? As to the “vast majority, please. I am not going to be so “presumptuous” where I state I know the reason(s) why all people need government assistance. Nor am I going to assume they are all lazy scum unwilling to work or contribute to society.

“Oh, and if you want something else, you cannot claim independency on the FAFSA unless you were born before 1984, unless you are a runaway, have been beaten, or are completely excommunicated from your parents. Maybe you should know that before throwing assertions around about my "being spoiled".“


Not sure where you’re coming from here but if you think we are breaking the law in some way, please tell me how. Apparently you know much more about these things than someone who has actual experience so I am all ears “little buddy”.

“You know what, you don't know anything of my family history either and I don't need to qualify myself to you. If you were trying to make a point, I couldn't see through the arrogance.”


Never said I did. All I did was use your own words to show what a spoiled, arrogant, presumptuous person you are. Shame on me

“I'm glad you decided to stop in though. Good luck to your daughter.”


Well thank you kind sir.

“As for you personally, I hope you continue going through life being spiteful towards people who have a different ideology than yours.”


Have a quote where I was “spiteful” towards multiple people? Didn’t think so. I’m not even spiteful of you although I have little respect for you or your arrogant opinion of yourself compared to others. I actually really enjoy life and the many friendships I have developed throughout it. And friendships with people from all walks of life. Hell, some even are receiving welfare whereas others are top execs. Diversity is the spice of life.

“Don't make it personal between you and I when it is a policy discussion. I have nothing to do with what has happened in your life and don't place the blame on me because I don't want a socialized health care system in the country.”


I didn’t make it personal between you and I. I simply used your own words to show the hypocrisy in your stated position as well as what little knowledge you hold about “real life” outside of your sheltered environment. And many of us have been to college little buddy so we do know how sheltered it is.

“I don't want to hear it. Don't talk down to somebody if you know absolutely nothing about them, especially in what was a civilized discussion.”


You don’t want to hear it, don’t read my posts. You ask me not to talk down to you. You who “presumes” that all people receiving assistance are lazy and such. And now you want to call insulting all those people “civilized”? Grow up little buddy.

“I have no problem with his message.”


Yet you melted like a stick of butter on the surface of the sun. Uh huh, it is there for all to see how you had no problem with my message.

“His daughter is sick with an incurable illness. I know what the health care system is like. I lost a sister to cancer in 2004. I wish his daughter well.”


Again thank you concerning your wishes for my daughter and please accept my condolences on the death of your sister. It is always very difficult dealing with a serious illness or death of a loved one.

And thank God your sister or your family didn’t need any type of public assistance. We would hate to see people label them as lazy and scum.

“My point is that it is an exception and shouldn't really have been compared with the points I was making.”


And my point is that there are many exceptions effecting people from all walks of life. And I did a fine job of making it without calling you "asshole". I was attempting to deal with your assumptions that all these people were lazy and didn’t want to work. All those people you so arrogantly labeled as such. Might I suggest you step back and evaluate who is being the presumptuous one as well as whose post oozes arrogance.

As to getting personal, don’t make broad generalizations about those different from you or less fortunate and expect those statements to just get a pass. Not as long as I am around. Course Swerb is free to ask me to leave.

PS to Pitbull: Thanks for your support but I can stand on my own. I have to laugh about the fact that I melted this tool with only one post. Apparently I still have the touch.

PPS to Rich: Please do not delete this thread. Allow it to stand as a testiment to those who choose to sterotype others into the neat little boxes they like to fit them into.
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Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:08 pm

Why are you ruining my at one time friendly debate with your stupidity? Calling people a fag stopped being funny in 1995 anyone who throws it around as much as you is clearly gay and have issues with it.
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:17 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Its not thier fault a hurricane hit but the pathetic response was Bush's fault and your wrong about it being a state issue especially since FEMA was involved and they provided NO support for serveral days leaving the elderly and sick to die. This might be one of the worst rationals i have ever read when you declare a federal disaster area its the federal goverments job to provide aide. But since Bush is a MORON who appoints dumb people to important jobs this is the result. Michael Brown was incharge of Arabian Horses before FEMA.


FEMA shouldn't even be an organization. The states should have safeguards in place to protect themselves from state disasters. For years, governors have labeled things as national disasters without much of a reason to. I understand Katrina was excessive damage. Either way, FEMA money was misappropriated. Once it is given to those affected, it should be out of the government's hands.

Why do states have any power if they can implore the federal government for everything?

The Right Wing water carriers have had far too much of an influence on this goverment and the political divide has never been this wide. You could call it the worst administration ever. They lie about Saddam and his weapons. They lie about Valerie Plame, which if you read the law Cheney, Libby, Armitage, and Novak should all be tried for treason and sent to the firing squad.


I'm not going to stand here and defend George Bush's administration. It's not worth it because everyone has a preconceived idea that will never be changed. I can't say that I have agreed with everything he has done. That I will grant you.


Im pro-immigration because without illegals our economy would collapse people would freak out if they had to pay $9 for strawberries and lettuce. Anyone working a 12 hour day for $2 an hour should get free education for thier children aslong as they arent criminal amnesty should be granted. Im a human before Im an American I see people who just want a better life for themselves and im not going to kick them out for that. This NeoCon Xenophobia is a joke assholes like Pat Roberts, Rush Limbaugh, and Jerry Fallwell (How is hell Fatboy?) telling people to support politicans who want to deport all the illegals is a joke. No one else is going to work these jobs.


So are you pro illegal immigration? I can understand legal immigration. That I don't have much of a problem with. As for these families, why not bring back the indentured servant concept? Let landowners bring some of these immigrants in for 5-7 years and let learn how to assimilate into American society? They can keep doing the menial jobs that Americans don't want to do, and when their time is up, they can have some land or something. Some kind of compensation. During that period, they are required to become an American citizen otherwise they get deported the second their time is up.

I'm sure someone will get pissed off about that idea too.
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Keep your former Scout people over there.

Unread postby municipalmutt » Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:26 pm

I have a hunch that this tool's big boy in the kiddie pool schtick is pretty much over here.

Don't you tell me where I can post slappy, or I'll put a cyberknot on your skull so big it's going to need it's own haircut. Speaking of pompous arrogant assholes, did you think you had the market cornered?

Here's some advice for you: don't generalize people.
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Re: BS

Unread postby CLEfan86 » Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:34 pm

PitbullTerrier wrote:Faggot,

You hijacked this thread when you went off on a tangent about being upset at my boy MDJM. Then your girlfreind up above went and put some Chinese gay picture that he found while trolling Gays R' Us. Hijacking? Seems no one has stood up to a tool like you, but that's over. I am your master now, and you will shut your fucking pie hole and be a good bitch.

I'd slap your bitch ass if we were in person, but I feel I did a good job of shutting you up. Next time you threaten one of my peeps, I am going to call you out and shut you the fuck up. Now...

The next response I see from you better be formatted properly with the respect we deserve from a fag like you. Otherwise, get the fuck out of this forum. The big kids are here, and we don't like you little homos getting all brand new and delicate on us.

Pretty bad when outsiders think you're a bona fide lunatic. Grow up and fucking die already.

Fuck off, troll.

PBT


And a political thread ends up in the mud, imagine that. I'll give that all government handouts of course aren't just to the undeserving, and then some are. MJDM's was but one example where the undeserving handout connotation was wrong. But to take a broad assertion given in the middle of a debate, wrong or right, and use the situation to bash a poster and his ideas, come on.

Nobody on this board including ST is going to include the given example with those who are taking advantage of the system. ST's reaction may have been a bit over the top, but it was a political argument (bound to cause tension) that has since been diluted to the ever intelligent gay bash.

Nice work PBT, you defeated those "brainwashed" conservatives, defended a like minded poster, and turned a fine debate into a trully "No-Holds Barred" thread, bravo tough guy.
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Re: Calling a Spade a Spade!

Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:37 pm

MadDawgJimmyMac wrote:One exception of many. My daughter attends a support group full of people who have had this type of experience.


You know, you don't seem to realize that we were only talking about socialized health care as a whole. Nothing was mentioned about exceptions like catastrophic illness clauses. As a whole, the key word being, whole, I am against socialized health care.

As to you being spoiled, you have your opinion, I have mine.


Care to let me know how you personally know me?

And why does not an exception (quite a common one I might add – or have you never heard of “catastrophic illnesses”?) equate to the vast majority. You have some facts, some links to support that? As to the “vast majority, please. I am not going to be so “presumptuous” where I state I know the reason(s) why all people need government assistance. Nor am I going to assume they are all lazy scum unwilling to work or contribute to society.


Common or not. It doesn't apply to a majority. Find me where it says that a majority of people in the United States have a "catastrophic" illness and then I'll give you whatever information you want.

The majority without the means of health insurance will abuse the privilege if given. Just like they do welfare. And food stamps. And WIC. People buy alcohol with food stamps in many instances. That's abuse of a privilege. I shudder to think what would happen if these people got health care.

Not sure where you’re coming from here but if you think we are breaking the law in some way, please tell me how. Apparently you know much more about these things than someone who has actual experience so I am all ears “little buddy”.


That was in response to being called spoiled. I have to be claimed by my parents, as do all college students that didn't fall under the above criteria, to be eligible for student loans. Those I will pay back when I am done with school, along with any other incurred costs. So call me spoiled if you want to, but that's the way it is.


Never said I did. All I did was use your own words to show what a spoiled, arrogant, presumptuous person you are. Shame on me


The tone of your initial post basically sounded like I was a heartless asshole because I didn't sympathize with your situation. Not only did I not know it, but it's not the norm for people. You made it sound like I have no idea what I'm talking about just because I'm in college and you have all of these life experiences as an adult.

If you honestly think that it didn't sound like you were talking down to me, then you didn't comprehend what you wrote.

Have a quote where I was “spiteful” towards multiple people? Didn’t think so. I’m not even spiteful of you although I have little respect for you or your arrogant opinion of yourself compared to others. I actually really enjoy life and the many friendships I have developed throughout it. And friendships with people from all walks of life. Hell, some even are receiving welfare whereas others are top execs. Diversity is the spice of life.


Your entire post was condescending in terms of my own personal opinion. Not everyone has your experiences, pal. You constantly tried to belittle my college status saying that I haven't experienced anything. Like you're jealous of the fact that I haven't been a parent. It's really not my fault that I was born when I was and it really isn't my fault that education takes time. Next time, I'll be sure to ask you when it's okay for me to say my opinion, as I need to be parented by someone who I don't even fucking know.

I didn’t make it personal between you and I. I simply used your own words to show the hypocrisy in your stated position as well as what little knowledge you hold about “real life” outside of your sheltered environment. And many of us have been to college little buddy so we do know how sheltered it is.


You made it personal. It doesn't stay impersonal with things like "spoiled", "protected dream world", and your little plug about not wishing that on me. Thanks, that makes you one hell of a guy.

You don’t want to hear it, don’t read my posts. You ask me not to talk down to you. You who “presumes” that all people receiving assistance are lazy and such. And now you want to call insulting all those people “civilized”? Grow up little buddy.


This whole thread has been about talking in generalities. We aren't going deep in depth with the health care system, nor its exceptions. It's just a matter of personal opinion. Frankly, I don't care how you feel about my perceptions. Whether you agree or not doesn't give you the right to act like I'm some unintelligent college student who has no idea about anything.

You want to talk about presumptuous language? You act like you're the only person who has a problem in his life. As if you are the only one who deals with things everyday. Mine aren't to your magnitude, but not everyone's life is this perfect utopia that yours isn't. Unless you walk in my shoes, don't tell me how great I supposedly have it. You wouldn't know.


Yet you melted like a stick of butter on the surface of the sun. Uh huh, it is there for all to see how you had no problem with my message.


It wasn't your message I had a problem with. It was how you made me look like a jackass with no idea what I was talking about. Maybe I really don't. But I'd like to think that I'm spot on when I argue that a lot of people will screw the system as they currently do with other social programs.


Again thank you concerning your wishes for my daughter and please accept my condolences on the death of your sister. It is always very difficult dealing with a serious illness or death of a loved one.


It surely is. I wish you and your family lots of strength. I'm sure you don't take any time for granted with her. That's my biggest regret. I never really understood the magnitude to which it would be like losing my sister. Best of luck to your family during the Holidays and in her future treatments.

And thank God your sister or your family didn’t need any type of public assistance. We would hate to see people label them as lazy and scum.


Unnecessary and condescending.


And my point is that there are many exceptions effecting people from all walks of life. And I did a fine job of making it without calling you "asshole". I was attempting to deal with your assumptions that all these people were lazy and didn’t want to work. All those people you so arrogantly labeled as such. Might I suggest you step back and evaluate who is being the presumptuous one as well as whose post oozes arrogance.


Democrats aren't worried about the exceptions. They want to appeal to the demographics that vote for them. Largely poor minorities and some middle class. Socialized health care is their opium to give to the masses this election year. I was merely stating why I'm against it and my reasons for it. That in no way implies that I meant everybody would do the same thing or have the same motivations.

You took everything I said, spun it into your story, and made me look like an asshole. You didn't have to say it. The tone of your post did it just fine.

PS to Pitbull: Thanks for your support but I can stand on my own. I have to laugh about the fact that I melted this tool with only one post. Apparently I still have the touch.


Yet you never made it personal.

PPS to Rich: Please do not delete this thread. Allow it to stand as a testiment to those who choose to sterotype others into the neat little boxes they like to fit them into.


I was asking for it to be deleted because it isn't a good reflection the site for some dickhead like Pitbull to be advocating my death. If you support that, you're as much of a cocksucker as he is.
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Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:39 pm

So are you pro illegal immigration? I can understand legal immigration. That I don't have much of a problem with. As for these families, why not bring back the indentured servant concept? Let landowners bring some of these immigrants in for 5-7 years and let learn how to assimilate into American society? They can keep doing the menial jobs that Americans don't want to do, and when their time is up, they can have some land or something. Some kind of compensation. During that period, they are required to become an American citizen otherwise they get deported the second their time is up.

I'm sure someone will get pissed off about that idea too.



Tripods im glad to have a civilized debate with you. Your not a moronic asshole like others. The problem with your indentured servant idea is your giving wealthy land owners the right to pick and choose human beings and rewarding them with land would never work. Remember all those Ex-slaves who should have got 40 acres and a mule? I wouldnt trust that system anymore than i trust the current one. Atleast you propse genuine ideas unlike other conservatives who just want to keep all Mexicans out. And I agree with you on FEMA I wouldnt trust the federal goverment to cut my lawn much less help after a natural disaster.
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:47 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Tripods im glad to have a civilized debate with you. Your not a moronic asshole like others. The problem with your indentured servant idea is your giving wealthy land owners the right to pick and choose human beings and rewarding them with land would never work. Remember all those Ex-slaves who should have got 40 acres and a mule? I wouldnt trust that system anymore than i trust the current one. Atleast you propse genuine ideas unlike other conservatives who just want to keep all Mexicans out. And I agree with you on FEMA I wouldnt trust the federal goverment to cut my lawn much less help after a natural disaster.


Thanks. The same sentiments back to you.

Here's my idea. Anyone who wants to apply for citizenship would enter into a database where any company, or private land owner, that wanted to hire illegals at lower wages would be able to do so. Think of it as reverse outsourcing. These illegals would eventually be forced to get citizenship during their period of work and get some kind of compensation upon the end of their duty.

As for compensation, I can't really say what. I have no idea. At least they would be a skilled laborer in some kind of job. Surely they could latch on with another company doing landscaping or manufacturing or something and maybe make some kind of standard of living for themselves.

Those that still try to enter illegally get deported. If there's no record of them working, forget it. I guess it's a bit like the work visa, except it keeps them under wraps longer and actually gives them a better chance because they will know a trade.

As long as it's legal immigration and they are paying back into the system, I really don't care if they are here or not. They'll continue doing jobs that Americans don't want to do and probably get a lower wage. That's fine with me. Keep pumping the capitalist system through.
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Re: Keep your former Scout people over there.

Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:49 pm

municipalmutt wrote:Don't you tell me where I can post slappy, or I'll put a cyberknot on your skull so big it's going to need it's own haircut. Speaking of pompous arrogant assholes, did you think you had the market cornered?

Here's some advice for you: don't generalize people.


Ironic how those screaming that I shouldn't generalize have generalized and stereotyped me for being a conservative, a college student, and that I am cold and heartless because I don't want people mooching off a socialized health care system. Weird how that works.

And I love the threats of physical violence and wishing for my death. Keep 'em coming guys!
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Re: Nope

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:55 pm

PitbullTerrier wrote:She raised me right, seeing that I can spot a faggot like you and make you weep like a bitch.

Shut your hole. Either entertain me or cry in your boyfriends man milk. Otherwise, stop humping my leg for attention, fucking moron.

When e0y calls you out, you KNOW you're pretty fucking lame.

PBT


Man i thought your funny at one point now your just a scrub with nothing to say. Your mother should have swallowed that load. I know she tried to have an abortion but you got out of the dumpster somehow.
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Re: Keep your former Scout people over there.

Unread postby municipalmutt » Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:16 pm

Skating Tripods wrote:
municipalmutt wrote:Don't you tell me where I can post slappy, or I'll put a cyberknot on your skull so big it's going to need it's own haircut. Speaking of pompous arrogant assholes, did you think you had the market cornered?

Here's some advice for you: don't generalize people.


Ironic how those screaming that I shouldn't generalize have generalized and stereotyped me for being a conservative, a college student, and that I am cold and heartless because I don't want people mooching off a socialized health care system. Weird how that works.

And I love the threats of physical violence and wishing for my death. Keep 'em coming guys!


1)My comment was in response to your statement about former scout people. Do they teach reading comprehesion in college these days, son?

2)Do you actually believe that you are self important enough to suggest where I should post?

3)Wouldn't you take it that way if you came from the Scout boards?

4)If you're referring to my response, where are there any physical threats?

College boy is for bringing back slavery. Let me ask you a couple of questions on your illegal immigration issue: Why didn't the Republicans when they had overwhelming control of congress, do something about this issue then?

Question Two: Do you think the Democrats are going to anything about it since they are now the majority in congress?

If you apologize for your scout people comment I will show you some respect even though I am probably 30 years older than you, a college grad, a veteran, and have had more life experiences in my little finger than you've had in your entire overly inflated punk head.
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Re: Keep your former Scout people over there.

Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:31 pm

municipalmutt wrote:
1)My comment was in response to your statement about former scout people. Do they teach reading comprehesion in college these days, son?


No.

2)Do you actually believe that you are self important enough to suggest where I should post?


Yes.

3)Wouldn't you take it that way if you came from the Scout boards?


Maybe.

4)If you're referring to my response, where are there any physical threats?


Sorry. I guess you said cyberknot. I guess you want to have rough, dominatrix style cyber sex with me.

College boy is for bringing back slavery. Let me ask you a couple of questions on your illegal immigration issue: Why didn't the Republicans when they had overwhelming control of congress, do something about this issue then?


Because people would do what you did and call it slavery. It's indentured servitude. They didn't teach the difference when you were in high school?

Question Two: Do you think the Democrats are going to anything about it since they are now the majority in congress?


No because Democrats don't do anything except appeal to people to get into office and then do nothing about their promises.

If you apologize for your scout people comment I will show you some respect even though I am probably 30 years older than you, a college grad, a veteran, and have had more life experiences in my little finger than you've had in your entire overly inflated punk head.


A genuine thank you for your service to our country.

If you want an apology, show me you're different from the other assholes and maybe you'll get one. But since I could give less than a shit about your respect, nevermind.
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Unread postby MadDawgJimmyMac » Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:47 pm

“You know, you don't seem to realize that we were only talking about socialized health care as a whole. Nothing was mentioned about exceptions like catastrophic illness clauses. As a whole, the key word being, whole, I am against socialized health care.”


You’re the one who made the broad presumption that those receiving government assistance were lazy and didn’t want to work. As a college student, maybe you need to work on your writing skills to convey the message you actually want people to receive.

“Care to let me know how you personally know me?”


I don’t know you personally but your own words ooze of a spoiled child who never had to work for anything or a person who has to face adversity.

“Common or not. It doesn't apply to a majority. Find me where it says that a majority of people in the United States have a "catastrophic" illness and then I'll give you whatever information you want.”


I didn’t make the broad generalization about those receiving government assistance. You did. And I did follow up by asking you for a link to back up your statements. To respond by asking me to prove your point for you is…well……asinine.

“The majority without the means of health insurance will abuse the privilege if given. Just like they do welfare. And food stamps. And WIC. People buy alcohol with food stamps in many instances. That's abuse of a privilege. I shudder to think what would happen if these people got health care.”


There will always be abuse in any system. Hell, look at now big corporate America runs and abuses our government. I’m sure the founding fathers planned it that way in this representative democracy. Right? Yet you defend them and lash out at the poor. Maybe you need to walk a mile in their shoes before you stereotype them.

“That was in response to being called spoiled. I have to be claimed by my parents, as do all college students that didn't fall under the above criteria, to be eligible for student loans. Those I will pay back when I am done with school, along with any other incurred costs. So call me spoiled if you want to, but that's the way it is.”


The reason I called you spoiled is that you have things handed to you. College, medical insurance and most likely many other forms of assistance from your parents and society. Yet without walking the walk, instead of understanding the plight of those less fortunate than you and your parents, you choose to make broad generalizations about them. Some poor people are bad, others are good. Some use food stamps to buy steak whereas others use them to buy hamburger. Just because things in their life made it more difficult than yours is no reason to be an arrogant peep and group them all together as lazy and unwilling to work. Doing that indicates to me that you are spoiled and arrogant. Reality sucks huh?

“The tone of your initial post basically sounded like I was a heartless asshole because I didn't sympathize with your situation. Not only did I not know it, but it's not the norm for people. You made it sound like I have no idea what I'm talking about just because I'm in college and you have all of these life experiences as an adult.”


The manner in which you expressed yourself in that post had “heartless asshole” written all over it. Go back and read your own post and count how many times you say “Hope you don’t think I’m being an asshole” then you go and disclose yourself as an arrogant asshole. Maybe you need to change your writing style. Or grow up.

As to weather you sympathize with my situation, who cares. Your sympathy does not save my daughters life nor does it change reality. And that wasn’t why I called. We don’t need your or anybody’s sympathy. Life’s a bitch and we had a tough hand dealt to us. We can wallow in self pity or do whatever we can to make it work. We choose to work hard at making it work.

"If you honestly think that it didn't sound like you were talking down to me, then you didn't comprehend what you wrote."


The only way it can be construed that I was talking down to you is if you really believe the shit you typed in your post I responded to. Talking about reality and offering examples of real needs is not talking down to people but rather offering examples that maybe all people receiving assistance are not lazy people who do not want to work. Unlike what you said or seem to believe.

“Your entire post was condescending in terms of my own personal opinion. Not everyone has your experiences, pal. You constantly tried to belittle my college status saying that I haven't experienced anything. Like you're jealous of the fact that I haven't been a parent. It's really not my fault that I was born when I was and it really isn't my fault that education takes time. Next time, I'll be sure to ask you when it's okay for me to say my opinion, as I need to be parented by someone who I don't even fucking know.”


Condescending? How? You made the presumptions, the broad generalizations. I just used a personal experience to show you how arrogant and wrong you are. As to your experience, you said it yourself; you are a college student just getting a start in life. Yet you attempt to pass yourself off as Mr. Knowitall and I might add, in a very condescending way. As to being born with more advantages, kudos to your parents as you had nothing to do with that. But yet you choose to think you’re sooooo much better than those who were not born into such an advantageous lifestyle. And I’m condescending. Grow up.

“You made it personal. It doesn't stay impersonal with things like "spoiled", "protected dream world", and your little plug about not wishing that on me. Thanks, that makes you one hell of a guy.”


Oh, I see. It’s OK for you to stereotype a large group of people yet when I pin the tail on the donkey, I am making it personal. Maybe you need to apologize to all those poor, less fortunate folks who you personally insulted with your arrogant presumptions. Or don’t you think they might take your presumptions personal?

“This whole thread has been about talking in generalities. We aren't going deep in depth with the health care system, nor its exceptions. It's just a matter of personal opinion. Frankly, I don't care how you feel about my perceptions. Whether you agree or not doesn't give you the right to act like I'm some unintelligent college student who has no idea about anything.”


Maybe after you get out of college and get a real job, you will discover that you can’t fix a problem until you understand the depth and details of the problem. Making broad generalizations in business management and then basing policy and actions on those generalizations is a quick ticket to the unemployment line. That’s why it is standard procedure to research a problem before focusing in on any proposed solutions. As to being some “unintelligent college student who has no idea about anything”, it is standard procedure when we hire a new grad to sit them down and tell them “I know they taught you this and that in college but you can now throw all that in the trash can as we will teach you how things are really done”. College is for learning and proving you have to talents to make it in the real world. It is a ticket to a higher opportunity. Those grads who think they know it all because they have a college education and display that arrogance in the work environment are normally ridiculed and eventually fired. That is unless they get a grip and realize they have just scratched the surface and have a lot to learn. Which are you?

“You want to talk about presumptuous language? You act like you're the only person who has a problem in his life. As if you are the only one who deals with things everyday. Mine aren't to your magnitude, but not everyone's life is this perfect utopia that yours isn't. Unless you walk in my shoes, don't tell me how great I supposedly have it. You wouldn't know.”


Where did I say or act like I am the only one with a problem or the only one dealing with things day to day? Good luck finding that one. Maybe you need to punt cause all you seem capable of doing is digging your hole a little deeper.

“It wasn't your message I had a problem with. It was how you made me look like a jackass with no idea what I was talking about. Maybe I really don't. But I'd like to think that I'm spot on when I argue that a lot of people will screw the system as they currently do with other social programs.”


I made you look like a jackass by using your own words and offering a real life situation to show what an arrogant jackass you were for typing them. Don’t blame me for taking the sheep’s outfit off the wolf. Think about it.

As to people abusing the system, I said up top that any system will be abused. Some abusers are welfare recipients, others are corporate leaders and politicians. I say throw all their asses in jail. They are all in their own way ruining what used to be the best country in the world.

“It surely is. I wish you and your family lots of strength. I'm sure you don't take any time for granted with her. That's my biggest regret. I never really understood the magnitude to which it would be like losing my sister. Best of luck to your family during the Holidays and in her future treatments.”

Like you, I have regrets. I failed the test to donate my kidney and maybe if I lived a cleaner lifestyle, I would have passed. I’m sure to this day, I do not spend enough time with my kids but as they get older, they develop their own lives and it includes little time for mom and dad. Cept holidays of course. One thing I have learned at a ripe old age, is to let the past be the past and do the best I can with the future. And in that vein, I make sure the time I spend with my kids is quality time. That’s about all I can do.

The best of luck to you and your family during the holidays and in the future.
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Unread postby XUDawg » Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:20 pm

Great post, Jim.
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Unread postby ProgRocker » Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:41 pm

Those who need treatment can still go to non-profit clinics. Those do still exist through the donations of generous Americans. The quality of care at that point is not my concern. If you want the best care, then pay into the system. If you can't, then find a way to do so. My mother works at a daycare and far too often, she sees poor parents sending their children to school on vouchers, while the mother/father drive a nice car, have nice clothes, and the mother has new nails every week. It's about prioritizing your own personal life.

If having health care doesn't fall into your priorities, but name brand clothes do, then it isn't my problem. I don't understand why I have to take further risks in my health coverage. As it stands now, because I am a college student, I'm still covered by my father's benefits package through his employer. As a union member, he gets a very good insurance package. He's a pro-Hillary voter. I'm trying to explain to him that his current health package is far and away superior to one he would get under a national system. And that's the truth.


First, I can see where folks started jumping down your throat in this paragraph. I am afraid you really do have a very prejudiced idea of who does and doesn't get health care - and in asserting that some if not most people think of health care premiums in the same vein as a pair of FUBU jeans is a total distortion of the issue. It also totally ignores one of the main points that I was making, which is that the way most people used to get health care -- employers -- just isn't happening. You have an anecdote, here's mine: I have two friends who work IN THE HEALTH INSURANCE INDUSTRY that don't have health insurance because the company doesn't provide it. WTF?!

It also avoids another point I made, which is that for way too many people, one significant illness will likely mean they won't be able to get health insurance anymore -- because health insurance companies only make money when they don't have to actually pay for health care. And the trend since '94, when Clinton's attempt to get universal health care went down in flames (not undeservedly, IMHO), has been for companies to cut it back further and further and further.

The free market simply ain't interested in providing health care, and if you believe in things like controlling the spread of diseases, easing disability costs that will debilitate Social Security, and frankly having a stable society where people are apt to lose everything they have because of an illness (which is the #1 reason for bankruptcies in this country), then you should believe in some kind of universal coverage.

As to your idea of free clinics ... there was a time when I thought the way to get universal care would be to set up a system of free clinics for preventative care, physicals, and basics like pap smears and blood tests, but I think the system has degenerated too far to make that viable anymore. It's too big, there are too many people (including people working full-time - something like over 40M, if my memory serves) not covered, and even doctors are POed at beancounters telling them how they should treat patients instead of doctors. The system's too broken.

The fact is that a national health care system would knock out 1/6 of the economy from the medical sector. I ask again, since it has not been answered, where will that money come from to be put back into the economy? Where will the money come from for national health care? My pocket. Your pocket. Instead of paying for everyone else's, if you're going to have to pay for insurance, why not just do it privately now?


Hopefully asked and answered. I do know that there is a Hell of a lot of money spent on advertising, romancing investors, and bureaucratic layers of BS that should get cut away with the correctly designed system.

Private health care is still a business. The chief operating principle of a business is to make money. I'd still take my chances with an insurance company that may or may not pay for my voluntary surgery than do a socialized system where it make take many years for me to get a procedure done.


I don't think you'd have to wait for those procedures. As I said, the U.S. has excess capacity in a lot of places (except rural areas), so because we have more numbers and more hospitals, there would be less of a wait (if there was a wait at all) for those procedures. And, like I said, I've done enough research to satisfy myself that the stories about waiting months for a procedure are mostly mythical. I do know that if you ask a typical Canadian or Brit if they'd swap their health care system for ours they'll look at you like you're insane. They know how crappy a lot of us have it here.

Can I ask a question to you? Well, I just did, but I'll ask another. Why do you feel that it is your responsibility to pay for health care for those who don't need it and can't afford it?


Because nobody else is. Because an orderly society is a healthy society. Because it's the right thing to do. Because it's good business in the 21st century, especially when lifetime employment with one employer is all but nonexistent.

My answer, I don't think I do because it should not be my burden. It is far from my responsibility to spoon-feed people who are already being spoon-fed by the government through vouchers to send their children to school, welfare, food stamps, etc. All it is going to do is encourage more laziness among these people. Having national health care does exactly what these people don't need. It will continue to make them lethargic about finding employment and creating their own advancement in the world. It will just be another government handout to people who don't work for it. And that includes illegals, which would be my biggest issue.


Again, if the option is to give illegals vaccinations paid for by the government or allow them to spread the next plague or AIDS virus, that's a no-brainer for me (and, I suspect, most voters).

I don't mean to sound like an asshole, but that's the union's fault and shouldn't force you to support socialized health care. Either way, socialized health care won't benefit people like you. I'll assume you are middle class since you are a UAW member, and therefore have a pretty good job. Socialized health care has no benefit for you. It benefits those who continue to do nothing and receive government assistance. As for you, yes you are paying into the system (which would continue regardless), but at least you get the care you need when you need it. That's a fundamental difference in the systems. Socialized health care means that your care might not be available when you need it. I think I'd rather pay for it and get what I need done when I need it.


First, to clarify: my union isn't the UAW, it's the dreaded NEA. Second, we're an extremely young union about to negotiate our third contract, and the first two contracts have gotten me a salary that's doubled and a retirement annuity, so one step at a time. Third, as I stated, if socialized medicine gives me assurances that a catastrophic illness will be covered AND that I will still be covered after that illness, then again that's win-win for me.

Finally, it seems to me you keep missing my point about Insurance 101: the whole idea of any insurance is to spread the risks among a wide pool of individuals. Some will need it sooner, some won't at all. I assume you have health insurance and, I bet, auto insurance. You probably even have life insurance, or even that would kick in if a car hit you tomorrow and you couldn't work any more.

Here's a what-if: let's say you get hit by that car and have to collect disability insurance. Let's say you paid in at age 25 and the injury happens when you're 31. That means because you paid your premiums, you'd get benefits for 30-40 years. Now let's say I had that same insurance policy as you, only I keep my relatively good health and never tap into that insurance. By your logic, I should be telling YOU to stop draining off MY money, and that the whole idea of insurance is some Marxian scheme designed to bleed cash into some fool's bank account. The only difference between that and health insurance is that we all need doctors. But we don't all get disabled. That's where spreading the risk pays off.

Health care is not an inherent right. It is a privilege. Those who have money and work for a living get in. Those who lay around all day or work menial jobs because they can't handle real labor don't deserve it.


And that's where we philosophically part ways - I think it is an inherent right, because without health you can't pursue happiness or anything else, and because an unhealthy society is unhealthy for everyone. You can't run away from influenza or epidemics, and that to me is reason alone for health care reform.

It has to be a profit-making system as an example of checks and balances. Look, under socialized health care, you will be paying for other people's abortions, if they became legalized. You will be paying for someone's AIDS treatment due to unprotected sex. You will be paying for the cancer treatment of a chain smoker. What about that is appetizing to people in favor of socializing health care?

Once again, it shouldn't be the American people's responsibility to bear the burden of people who have made stupid choices with their personal life.


Not everyone gets pregnant because of a stupid choice. Not everyone gets cancer because of a stupid choice. Not everyone is born with a disability because of a stupid choice. Most, I would venture to say. So I respond, you're wrong. It IS my responsibility to them, just as it is their responsibility to me. And I won't shrink from it.

Oh come on. You mean to tell me that those countries have it better than the United States? That's absurd. Socialized health care will create more problems than it will do good. First of all, everyone hates higher taxes. Well, guess what funds health care. Second, we also have a much larger population of poverty-stricken lower classes. Those countries certainly have less of those, because the cost of living isn't as high. There will be millions upon millions of abuses of the system. Some drunk homeless guy will go to the hospital saying he is sick and get a free night's sleep. There's no rhyme or reason as to why he should get a free night in a hospital when there are multiple homeless shelters in every major city.


Let me respectfully suggest you do some traveling. Yes, there are a LOT of countries that have it better than us right now, and I'm fed up with playing second fiddle to the Germans and the Swedes and the Japanese and the Malaysians -- all of whom have universal health care and are wiping the floor with us economically, socially, technologically, etc.

What makes Iraq a disaster? Don't make a point without elaborating. Iraq, at its core, is a success. Hussein is out of power, there is growing stability every day in the region with its government and growth toward democracy.


Oh. My. God. If you have to ask what makes Iraq a disaster, no amount of link-making will sway you. Suffice it to say there are fewer and fewer of you who still believe this was a just war, still think Saddam was an imminent threat, still believe in shredding our Constitution (one of Osama's main goals, by the way, which Bush has gleefully given to that rat bastard), still think the aftermath of the war was planned, and still even try to argue that it was a success when it became clear years ago this was one of the biggest failures of foreign policy in American history.

The planet has gone through far worse than what we're putting it through. Ice ages, movement of tectonic plates, so on and so forth. Some greenhouse gases are not the biggest problem facing the world. And even so, Al Gore is informed on global warming. Big deal. Maybe if he wanted to talk about something relevant to the betterment of this COUNTRY, then maybe I would listen to him. But telling me that "The planet has a fever" isn't exactly my idea of someone who should hold the highest office in the world.


Al Gore was talking about the danger in the environment before he ran for office in 1992, much less 2000. And even if you don't believe in the message of global warming, surely you would see some benefit in creating a country where we could be energy independent so that we could ignore folks like Saddam -- because make no mistake, there really is one reason and one reason only that we cared about him, and that reason begins with an "o," ends in an "l," and has an eye in the middle.

Wait, are you trying to tell me that Democrats aren't mindless drones and Republicans are? While I will give you that Democrats are extremely idealistic and have no shred of reality in many of their proposals, this election alone shows the differences between the candidates.


To quote Will Rogers, "I don't belong to any organized political party - I'm a Democrat."

Bush did not lie about Saddam Hussein. All he can do is go on the information that his advisors give him. These people are specifically hand-picked for this kind of work for a reason. So he didn't have WMD in missile or bomb form. He had large quantities of saran gas. What about the empty missile silos? You are unbelievably naive if you think that Hussein has never possessed WMDs. A man of his caliber certainly has large amounts of potential to have those sorts of resources.


Uh, yes Bush did lie about Saddam - even if it was his advisors, he's the President and that means he has to accept responsibility. If he hired those advisors, it's his fault (and if Cheney did it, it's his fault - and Bush's for picking Cheney), and any President who listened to people who were that wrong for that long doesn't deserve any trust or respect. Saddam clearly had no WMDs when we invaded, the sarin gas story was debunked years ago, and it seems like you need more variety in your newswatching habits (all due respect).

Wiretapping, I touched on in an earlier post. I'll sacrifice some of my civil liberties if it means that I'm going to be kept safe.


Ben Franklin: "Those who sacrifice freedom for security deserves neither." Plus, I've read enough about Osama to know that destroying our way of life is exactly what he wants -- and I'll be damned if I give him anything else he wants.

Torture, these people are KNOWN CRIMINALS AND TERRORISTS. Why should they deserve any sort of humane treatment if their sole purpose in life is to inflict pain on other people? If we need to know something, I would instantly do whatever it took to get the information I needed.


Uh, no, most of the folks sitting in Gitmo and Abu Ghraib are NOT terrorists. And no, torture does not work despite what Kiefer Sutherland does (and I LOVE 24, but it's just a TV show). And we give them humane treatment because if we don't, then when they capture our citizens and soldiers they'll do God knows what and feel a sense of proportion because it's retaliation. Don't believe me? Ask John McCain. Or the wife of Daniel Pearl.

You're blaming Katrina on George W. Bush and the Republicans?


I'm blaming the lack of a response on Bush and the Republicans, and I think you know that.

If I had a week to get out of a city that was built below sea level as a category 4 hurricane approached, I'd be gone immediately. Throw some shit in a bag, get in the car and get the hell out of there. But no. I've had to listen for two years to sob stories about people who were too damn stupid to leave an area that was undoubtedly going to be ravaged by a monster storm. Not only that, but the levees that broke were under city and state control, not federal.


Do you know what The Golden Rule is? I think you need a referesher.

With all due respect. Truly.[/quote]
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Unread postby municipalmutt » Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:30 pm

If you want an apology, show me you're different from the other assholes and maybe you'll get one. But since I could give less than a shit about your respect, nevermind.


Ok. Have it your way Skippy. I noticed that you've ignored the question about what the republicans have done about illegal immigration when they held the majority in congress. The correct answer is nothing, which is exactly what the democrats will do. Do you understand the point yet? For a college boy you seem to have been bukkaked with stupid.
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Unread postby Erie Warrior » Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:58 pm

Skating Tripods wrote:The same Al Gore who invented the internet? He's a farce. He just wanted to save himself from going into obscurity so he figured he would take the global warming position because it hasn't been taken yet.

The planet has gone through far worse than what we're putting it through. Ice ages, movement of tectonic plates, so on and so forth. Some greenhouse gases are not the biggest problem facing the world. And even so, Al Gore is informed on global warming. Big deal. Maybe if he wanted to talk about something relevant to the betterment of this COUNTRY, then maybe I would listen to him. But telling me that "The planet has a fever" isn't exactly my idea of someone who should hold the highest office in the world.



Actually Gore's been pimpin' global warming for nearly 2 decades

One of the consequences of global warming is ice ages. Alaska and England are on similiar lines of latitude, so why the difference in climate? A little thing called the Ocean Conveyor. Pray that it doesn't stop moving in your lifetime.

Do not make the mistake of thinking of plate tectonics in the past tense. The ground is moving under you right now, at a very slow rate.

Guess how many people in this country live within 50 miles of a coast? Answer: nearly half. Rising sea levels will be a major problem for THIS COUNTRY.

Every other industralized nation in the world acknowledges and has pledged to try and curb global warming (see Kyoto Protocol). Perhaps a person who understands global responsibility should have the highest office in the world.

Whether you hate him or love him, Mutt's "bukkaked with stupid" is a contender for post of the year. I don't necessarily agree with his delivery, but the humor is quality.
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