Occupy Wall Street

[HoodooMan]

A) Taxes!

B) No.

[Orenthal]

Uh, yea I disagree with their message and view for this country. They want more socialism (debating this is ), I say that socialism and its buddy corporatism is what creates these problems. Capitalism will always have winners and losers, but the level of socialism OWS advocates is a loser everywhere its been tried. IMO, capitalism with a few saftey nets is more then reasonable. To error to either extreme, Tea Party or OWS is foolish, but its obvious which side I lean closer too.

The whole winners and losers approach to capitalism would be fine and dandy ifnyou actually let the losers, you know, lose. Instead of giving the losers billions of dollars in interest free "loans" and hoping they won't fuck it up again. But the fact that NOT giving those fucktards free money with absolutely no consequence or accountability would actually be worse for the country than giving the fucktards the money...well, that's a problem.

And I think that's a lot of what the people shitting in the park are complaining about.

Someone just needs to explain to them that it's CAPITALISM, it's a well oiled machine, and they are lucky to have it.

Plenty of those in the park have failed financially and want bailed out. So we continue to let government pick the winners and losers? I didn't support the bailouts. I'm sure I have 100's of posts in this forum about that, your throwing money away with either bailout.

Least the banks repaid their bailouts...

[FUDU]

A) Taxes! As long as they don't come from me.

B) No.

Then we agree.

Now the question becomes is this movement OWS or OWSOWIW.

Occupy Wall Street Only When It's Warm

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Uh, yea I disagree with their message and view for this country. They want more socialism (debating this is ), I say that socialism and its buddy corporatism is what creates these problems. Capitalism will always have winners and losers, but the level of socialism OWS advocates is a loser everywhere its been tried. IMO, capitalism with a few saftey nets is more then reasonable. To error to either extreme, Tea Party or OWS is foolish, but its obvious which side I lean closer too.

The whole winners and losers approach to capitalism would be fine and dandy ifnyou actually let the losers, you know, lose. Instead of giving the losers billions of dollars in interest free "loans" and hoping they won't fuck it up again. But the fact that NOT giving those fucktards free money with absolutely no consequence or accountability would actually be worse for the country than giving the fucktards the money...well, that's a problem.

And I think that's a lot of what the people shitting in the park are complaining about.

Someone just needs to explain to them that it's CAPITALISM, it's a well oiled machine, and they are lucky to have it.

This. FUCKING THIS!!!!!

They still owe us $1.5 TRILLION. It's time to pay up or go to jail.... and not that country club jail shit either.

We don't have "Capitalism"..... we have a handful of rich assholes that get it all and more. We just pick up the fucking bill when they fail due to their own greed and ineptitude.

Fuck 'em all.

[Orenthal]

Have we actually discussed how to make higher education cheaper? Or just mystically shifted the burden of payment, probably at an increased cost?

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Least the banks repaid their bailouts...

This is wrong. They repaid TARP.

They still owe the Treasury and FED.

[Orenthal]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 18336.html

Who lends the banks 0% then pays them 2-3% to lend them that money back?

[Orenthal]

Have a link CDT. I won't pretend to know everything, and am unaware how much more they owe.

Though being able to go to the discount window then loan that money back to the government by buying T-Bills is a pretty sweet gig.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704261504576205142438418336.html

Who lends the banks 0% then pays them 2-3% to lend them that money back?

Your link is jacked, you have to subscribe to read past the first 2 paragraphs.

[FUDU]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704261504576205142438418336.html

Who lends the banks 0% then pays them 2-3% to lend them that money back?

tl;dr

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Have a link CDT. I won't pretend to know everything, and am unaware how much more they owe.

Though being able to go to the discount window then loan that money back to the government by buying T-Bills is a pretty sweet gig.

One second.... I stashed it in a windows notepad.

[FUDU]

I think CDT just put OJ on Internet hold.

[Orenthal]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704261504576205142438418336.html

Who lends the banks 0% then pays them 2-3% to lend them that money back?

Your link is jacked, you have to subscribe to read past the first 2 paragraphs.

Odd when I first read it it was cool. Either way you answered it while I was typing. It was that 99% of TARP was paid back and cited the SIGTARP.

[Orenthal]

I think CDT just put OJ on Internet hold.

I really should be focusing on this paper on Federalism and Homeland Security I have due, but eh, that is boring.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

http://prwatch.org/news/2011/08/10924/m ... al-reserve

Under the first graph there if you click where it says, you can get a more detailed table.

[e0y2e3]

Federalism and Homeland security?

Holy fuck what a bullshit topic.

Anyhow, I am still amazed we avoided inflation with all of the money supply injections. Anyone know of a detailed study on exactly how in the fuck we avoid inflation and/or deflation during this whole debacle? It's really amazing.

I'm just going to OJ and Ziner it and give GWB credit.

[peeker643]

If you're looking for coherent and actionable plans and ideas from this you're missing the point.

If you think my point is only "at least someone is doing something" then you're missing the point.

If that's the case no matter how I say it you can't or won't get it. That's not being elitist or mysteriously vague or anything else. You're just missing it.

Many thought this would fizzle in a day- they were wrong

Many thought it wouldn't spread- they were wrong

That's fine. But if you're not seeing what's going on or you're trying to define it and determine it's ultimate effect you're not fucking getting it.

Which is perfectly cool as long as you're not tearing it down out of that ignorance.

This post will also be quoted and misunderstood and...whatever..

As you were.

[e0y2e3]

OJ needs help on his Federalism and Homeland Security bullshit essay Peeks.

I think we should hit Google for him.

[Orenthal]

Federalism and Homeland security?

Holy fuck what a bullshit topic.

Anyhow, I am still amazed we avoided inflation with all of the money supply injections. Anyone know of a detailed study on exactly how in the fuck we avoid inflation and/or deflation during this whole debacle? It's really amazing.

I'm just going to OJ and Ziner it and give GWB credit.

Yes e0. Homeland security requires a centralized relationship between federal, state, and local agencies and blah blah blah federalism ain't dat.

Depends on the methodology used to quantify inflation. The methods used in 1980, before they were changed by Volcker in 1979 caused they looked too bad, show a much different picture then the current CPI. Which was changed again in 1990 for many of the same reasons.

I have enough stuff from Public Administration Review, the Congressional Research Service, and the Homeland Security Policy Institute. What I need is some stuff from Bleacher Report.

ETA
I didn't have the freedom to pick my own topic. #OWS

[Ziner]

Anyhow, I am still amazed we avoided inflation with all of the money supply injections. Anyone know of a detailed study on exactly how in the fuck we avoid inflation and/or deflation during this whole debacle? It's really amazing.

Well some would argue we aren't out of the woods with the amount of excess reserves held by banks right now.

You may be interested in this http://www.newyorkfed.org/research/staf ... /sr380.pdf

Talks about how the Fed can use its policy of paying interest on reserves to help cushion the blow when lending picks back up.


END THE FED!!!!! (almost got through an entire post)

[FUDU]

Sorry peeks but that perspective (that this is about something that is beyond definition and if others cant see it then it's on them) isn't some uber intelligent level of higher thinking (and that is not directed at you personally as much as it is the entire perspective in general).

Personally I'd like to see John Stossel interview some of these people, would go a long way towards building credibility, or tearing it down. Things like who's the governor of your own state, who is chairman of the Fed, speaker of the House etc. Be pretty exposing like all those little bits go I'm sure. What I'm saying is in the end we just might see that somebody just told these people to stand up and start yelling about stuff. Great, now can you move out of the way while I go earn your living.

They're getting my cautious support, but frankly I'd feel more comfortable hiring BASF to fix this.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Why John Stossel?

[Ziner]

FUDU has a thing for dudes with mustaches.

[FUDU]

Why John Stossel?

B/C interviewees would need a chair to talk to you, and you'd probably bring that spider, which whose life is in jeopardy once my Tarantula Hawk farms gets going.

[Orenthal]

Why John Stossel?

B/C interviewees would need a chair to talk to you, and you'd probably bring that spider, which whose life is in jeopardy once my Tarantula Hawk farms gets going.

Been tried. Oh, and Kasich is taking away exotic animals, so I'll petition that that spider be removed from his care.

[motherscratcher]

I came across this and intended to skim over it in a few seconds. Ended up reading the entire thing. Worth reading:

Police brutality is, on the other hand, overly familiar. It's a phrase we know too well; part of what should shock us about it is the easy way it rolls off the tongue. But we're used to shock by now; “shock and awe” is in our national lexicon and we're no longer either shocked or awed by it. People observe, sagely, in comment threads across the Internet, that yes, sometimes the police use excess force, but this is what happens when people don't obey police orders (however unlawful those orders might be). Honestly, what did they expect?

Those people tend not to know Oakland's history with the police, or the police's history with Oakland, they've probably never experienced anything remotely like police brutality themselves, and they also tend to let a winking cynicism about how the world works disguise their resignation and passivity. (I should know—I'm not too far from being one of them.)

Any of that sound familiar here in what e0y calls Angry Old Man Forum?

http://www.theawl.com/2011/10/the-livestream-ended-how-i-got-off-my-computer-and-into-the-streets-at-occupy-oakland

[Cerebral_DownTime]

If the police tell you to get down on the ground and bark like a dog, are obligated to follow those orders just because they have a badge?

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Been tried. Oh, and Kasich is taking away exotic animals, so I'll petition that that spider be removed from his care.

lol. It doesn't work that way. A tarantula is not the same as lion or a bear. it's not a dangerous animal Plus i'm already planning to get 2 more.

This. The Brazilian Whiteknee.



And this beauty the Green Bottle Blue.

[Orenthal]

If the police tell you to get down on the ground and bark like a dog, are obligated to follow those orders just because they have a badge?

Maybe if it was Mr. McMahon!

[Orenthal]

Well then, I suppose I have to Occupy Columbus until that corporate shill Kasich feels the power of our anti-spider movement.

[motherscratcher]

If the police tell you to get down on the ground and bark like a dog, are obligated to follow those orders just because they have a badge?

I provided poor context by bolding that one part. The writer sees eye to eye with you (and me) on the subject. The writer was commenting on the "the protesters must have done something to deserve it" mantra that is pervasive on many comment threads.

Not here or course, cough cough...

[Orenthal]

/end fun
Course CDT's hypothetical lacks context. The fact the rules for most of parks and protest areas have been long codified by legislative bodies is of no consequence.
/resume fun

Where is jfilinger?

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Well then, I suppose I have to Occupy Columbus until that corporate shill Kasich feels the power of our anti-spider movement.

I will counter your anti spider nonsense with a pro spider rally.

If you saw my tarantula take down a big roach you think it's badass.... because it is. crunch nom nom nom nom.

[motherscratcher]

/end fun
Course CDT's hypothetical lacks context. The fact the rules for most of parks and protest areas have been long codified by legislative bodies is of no consequence.
/resume fun

Where is jfilinger?

I'm convinced you are actually e0y, and you is using this account to prove yourself right.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

/end fun
Course CDT's hypothetical lacks context. The fact the rules for most of parks and protest areas have been long codified by legislative bodies is of no consequence.
/resume fun

Where is jfilinger?

You cannot codify free speech. Public areas are public for a reason, we pay for them.

[Ziner]

I don't understand why they don't just follow the laws set up for these parks and plazas. Here in Denver they booted them from the park because if you don't boot them then you have no right to boot anyone else. They let them have their couple weeks and then enforced the already established city ordinances that did not allow them to camp overnight in the park... but apparently that is limiting free speech.

In Oakland they booted them for public health and safety concerns, don't really know how legit it is, but I am guessing they have similar laws about camping in parks. You don't just get to break whatever law you feel like in the name of free speech.

It is a shame what happened to that marine, it really is. According to this article two police officers were wounded, isn't right what happened to them either. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 1LLTC9.DTL I have searched high and low to see what they mean by wounded, but it appears at least some of these "peaceful" protesters were not so peaceful.

As I have said all along, they have their right to protest, but really, their refusal to follow established laws with their occupying is just putting these city governments and police departments in shitty situations. And I would venture to guess there are a fair amount of these police officers are just as fed up as they are.

[Ziner]

/end fun
Course CDT's hypothetical lacks context. The fact the rules for most of parks and protest areas have been long codified by legislative bodies is of no consequence.
/resume fun

Where is jfilinger?

You cannot codify free speech. Public areas are public for a reason, we pay for them.

Zuccotti park is privately owned.

[Orenthal]

Public parks can have specified closing times, rules for noise, and tents blah blah. Its why occupy Cleveland protesters where forced off Public Square, and onto the sidewalk. I'm sure of (2) things, Occupy Oakland was probably somewhere it shouldn't have been (no matter how stupid the rule is), and that the Oakland police went way too far and was pre-emptive of any real threat IMO.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

/end fun
Course CDT's hypothetical lacks context. The fact the rules for most of parks and protest areas have been long codified by legislative bodies is of no consequence.
/resume fun

Where is jfilinger?

You cannot codify free speech. Public areas are public for a reason, we pay for them.

Zuccotti park is privately owned.

And your point is? Let me say this slowly so you can follow I.....was.....talking....about.....public......spaces.

[Ziner]

/end fun
Course CDT's hypothetical lacks context. The fact the rules for most of parks and protest areas have been long codified by legislative bodies is of no consequence.
/resume fun

Where is jfilinger?

You cannot codify free speech. Public areas are public for a reason, we pay for them.

Zuccotti park is privately owned.

And your point is? Let me say this slowly so you can follow I.....was.....talking....about.....public......spaces.

So would you like to codify what I can and can't do in a public space? Or is it a free for all because you can't codify it?

[motherscratcher]

/end fun
Course CDT's hypothetical lacks context. The fact the rules for most of parks and protest areas have been long codified by legislative bodies is of no consequence.
/resume fun

Where is jfilinger?

You cannot codify free speech. Public areas are public for a reason, we pay for them.

Zuccotti park is privately owned.

And your point is? Let me say this slowly so you can follow I.....was.....talking....about.....public......spaces.

So would you like to codify what I can and can't do in a public space? Or is it a free for all because you can't codify it?

I'm sure there are limits, but we should probably let people stand there and hold signs.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

/end fun
Course CDT's hypothetical lacks context. The fact the rules for most of parks and protest areas have been long codified by legislative bodies is of no consequence.
/resume fun

Where is jfilinger?

You cannot codify free speech. Public areas are public for a reason, we pay for them.

Zuccotti park is privately owned.

And your point is? Let me say this slowly so you can follow I.....was.....talking....about.....public......spaces.

So would you like to codify what I can and can't do in a public space? Or is it a free for all because you can't codify it?

Nope. I don't want to set terms and conditions on YOUR 1st Amendment rights. Am I not merciful?

[Cerebral_DownTime]

If the Tea Party wanted or wants to do the same, they should and I support it. I never bitched when some of them brought guns to rallies.

[Ziner]

/end fun
Course CDT's hypothetical lacks context. The fact the rules for most of parks and protest areas have been long codified by legislative bodies is of no consequence.
/resume fun

Where is jfilinger?

You cannot codify free speech. Public areas are public for a reason, we pay for them.

Zuccotti park is privately owned.

And your point is? Let me say this slowly so you can follow I.....was.....talking....about.....public......spaces.

So would you like to codify what I can and can't do in a public space? Or is it a free for all because you can't codify it?

I'm sure there are limits, but we should probably let people stand there and hold signs.

At all hours of the day? Chanting, banging on drums, shitting in the park?

If you happen to live near there you are just S.O.L.?

[Cerebral_DownTime]

/end fun
Course CDT's hypothetical lacks context. The fact the rules for most of parks and protest areas have been long codified by legislative bodies is of no consequence.
/resume fun

Where is jfilinger?

You cannot codify free speech. Public areas are public for a reason, we pay for them.

Zuccotti park is privately owned.

And your point is? Let me say this slowly so you can follow I.....was.....talking....about.....public......spaces.

So would you like to codify what I can and can't do in a public space? Or is it a free for all because you can't codify it?

I'm sure there are limits, but we should probably let people stand there and hold signs.

At all hours of the day? Chanting, banging on drums, shitting in the park?

If you happen to live near there you are just S.O.L.?

Go for it, hoss. I'll just go buy $1 ear plugs.

[Ziner]

If the Tea Party wanted or wants to do the same, they should and I support it. I never bitched when some of them brought guns to rallies.

If they ever brought them to a park where they weren't allowed to be in they should have been arrested.

What you are saying is that in the name of free speech you can break any existing law or park ordinance? Be damned with neighbors who live near, to merchants who sidewalks you clog and thus discourage people from visiting, be damned with anyone who may be driving or walking by, they are free to harass or block traffic?

Shit, maybe I can get behind this. Next time I want to throw a kegger in the park down the street from my house I will just say it is in the name of free speech.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Why should someone be arrested for carrying a gun in the open in a public space? As long as they aren't firing the fucker off in the air, I don't give a shit. It's a right.

[motherscratcher]

If the Tea Party wanted or wants to do the same, they should and I support it. I never bitched when some of them brought guns to rallies.

If they ever brought them to a park where they weren't allowed to be in they should have been arrested.

What you are saying is that in the name of free speech you can break any existing law or park ordinance? Be damned with neighbors who live near, to merchants who sidewalks you clog and thus discourage people from visiting, be damned with anyone who may be driving or walking by, they are free to harass or block traffic?

Shit, maybe I can get behind this. Next time I want to throw a kegger in the park down the street from my house I will just say it is in the name of free speech.

What are you, a fuckin' park ranger?

[Cerebral_DownTime]

That's where i draw the line, aquatic rodents inside the city limits.

[Ziner]

Why should someone be arrested for carrying a gun in the open in a public space? As long as they aren't firing the fucker off in the air, I don't give a shit. It's a right.

Illegal in national parks. I don't give a shit either, but thems the rules. All I am saying is follow the rules of the park and their message would be in the headlines and not their tangles with cops.