Republican Presidential Candidates

[e0y2e3]

Dan, the tactics used by the Republicans in 2004 were cutting edge.

Their ability to identify people tied to gay marriage and how they approached them was amazing. It was the best campaign I had ever seen until Obama's.

If you want to plead ignorance re: gay marriage pulling the election in Ohio I'd recommend starting w/ the PBS Frontline on Bush's campaign tactics. Then I'd progress to the application and use of the tools in ohio.

[motherscratcher]

Dan - if there's a reason to oppose gay marriage other than bigotry against gays I've yet to hear it, although I'm willing to listen and will keep an open mind.

And this really isn't about what Bush or Obama's policies and talking points are on the subject. They say what they think they have to say, and do what they think they have to do to get elected. All of them do.

What this comes down to is Republicans making it an issue. Putting an Ohio ban on gay marriage on a ballot is a thinly veiled attempt to get a bunch of fucking moron mouth breathers to the polls so they can vote in the Grand Ole Party and make sure the world doesn't end if they because we allowed the faggots a few streets over to get a piece of paper saying they are married.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

So many gay marriage supporters operate on the assumption that the only possible reason for opposing a fundamental change in the centuries-old definition of marriage is bigotry. It's just one more example of the knee-jerk tendency of the left to assign bad faith motives to their political opponents, dismissing them as unworthy of debate rather than bothering to grapple with their substantive arguments.

Obama ran on a platform of defining marriage as between a man and a woman....a position pretty much indistinguishable from that of Bush. Here's his quote from a 2008 campaign appearance: "I believe that marriage is the union between a man and a woman. Now for me as a Christian, it's also a sacred union. God's in the mix." He supported "civil unions", but not a CA to prohibit gay marriage. Maybe someone could explain to me how this position differs substantively, morally, from that of mainstream conservatism today. Nobody really believes the Constitution could be amended in this way in 2011 America.

His supporters suggest that (wink, wink) it was simply a position taken out of political expediency, hence no name-calling of the Democratic president as a bigot. He supported "civil unions", he said, a position not unlike every current mainstream GOP politician. Is Obama a hater?

eO suggests, without evidence or argument, that Bush won Ohio on the basis of DOMA.

Funny.

My humble opinion on the subject is, it's no one else's goddamn business who you or anyone else decides to marry. Voting on who gets rights and who doesn't is bullshit, plain and simple. Rights either apply to all or none.

Again, JMHO........

[FUDU]

Naw, I'll just venture out of the forum before you post something that kills my brain cells.

(BTW: if you want a classic example of a racist that lives in Cleveland just check out FUDU OJ)

I always enjoy your hypocrisy eye.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Is there anyway we could work abortion into this thread? That way we wouldn't need another political thread for the next 3 months.

[motherscratcher]

Is there anyway we could work abortion into this thread? That way we wouldn't need another political thread for the next 3 months.

Or maybe perform an abortion ON the thread itself and pretend it never happened?

[e0y2e3]

Ah yes, sarcasm still goes over little FUDU's head.

Always a joy.

We're well past six minutes now though, I'm concerned for you.

[FUDU]

The abortion is usually the Browns and/or Tribe, usually.

[e0y2e3]

(PS: if you want to talk racism we can bring up your infinitely long history of NBA takes, those are always great)

[Cerebral_DownTime]

So you're a racist..... trying to get other people laid on the interwebs?

[Cerebral_DownTime]

If someone said that here, i'd bet you would give them the "Rat Tail" treatment.

[FUDU]

It's the gift that keeps on giving, or something like that.

...and exactly.

Sarcasm is funny though.

He might have black friends but he obviously doesn't have any Latino friends.

[e0y2e3]

That post is a bit involved to explain, but essentially you got it.

Also, cute that FUDU cyber stalks me on boards he doesn't and didn't post on just save the fine dandy pic for posting 2 years later. Talk about love... :-)

FUDU <3s me.

[e0y2e3]

FUDU I'm the guy that yells at people for saying oriental.

I also put the N word quoting Biggy in my sig here messing around. Amazed you missed that.

I'm playful and you <3 me.

[FUDU]

Ahh yes here it comes, the spin, deflection, stalking etc angles.

Look dude I told you that morning and, ever since, you are nothing but a hypocrite. You have zero credibility on the topic, so you should probably let it go now.

ETA: but you won't, more proof of my point.

[e0y2e3]

If someone said that here, i'd bet you would give them the "Rat Tail" treatment.

Would 100% depend on who.

If you said it hammered and fucking around a 3:30AM, I'd figure you were fucking around and ignore it.

If FUDU said it I'd worry he was beating a latino in his basement between posts.

If Rat Tail said it I'd never let it go because he's too stupid to say anything but what he believes.

[FUDU]

I better go before my Internet gets tur

[e0y2e3]

Ahh yes here it comes, the spin, deflection, stalking etc angles.

Look dude I told you that morning and, ever since, you are nothing but a hypocrite. You have zero credibility on the topic, so you should probably let it go now.

FUDU, a hammered fucking around post a 3:30AM to a friend that was in town totally is a big deal.

Should I have used that word fucking around, nope, I did, not the end of the world.

It's cute though that you hung on to a two year old screen shot as the only thing you've ever been able to come up w/ to counter me calling you out for years of blatant race based hate.

[e0y2e3]

PS: one of the biggest reasons that you'll never get over your racism is your refusal to believe it exists, you can't even accept the fact that tribalism plays a major roll in our country today for each and every one of us. Race (and social) divides cannot be overcome until you accept there reality, something you have hid from for years, in favor of beind the whitest white you can be.

[e0y2e3]

(also of note, I'm going to start checking IPs of guest at my new boards, because if I find out you've been stalking me there I'm going to start getting concerned)

[Cerebral_DownTime]

REPUBLICANS SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cerebral_DownTime]

So is that it, are we done?

[danwismar]

Dan - if there's a reason to oppose gay marriage other than bigotry against gays I've yet to hear it, although I'm willing to listen and will keep an open mind.

Okay...I guess this editorial could be considered a fair representation of the principled center-right argument for retaining the traditional definition of marriage. Let me know if you find examples of bigotry and hatred in it.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/ ... ors?page=1

It's not an issue in which I really feel like I have a dog in the fight...there being far more important matters facing the nation. I understand the arguments of gay marriage supporters, and it's nice to see someone who has an interest in listening to the other side.

It would be nice for the pro gay marriage side of the argument to at least admit that their's is the radical project...the one that cuts against centuries of tradition and practice. It would also be nice to hear them admit that a person can favor completely equal legal rights for gay couples and still maintain that the definition of "marriage" should not change. Because if we accept the notion that caring for one another...and wanting to live together...and having hospital visitation rights...are reason enough to allow legal "marriage" to occur, then by what consistent logic could we prevent a person from marrying his grandmother...or his dog...or three other people? Yes, it's a "slippery slope" argument...and a valid one.

[Ziner]

Is there anyway we could work abortion into this thread

I find bleeding heart liberals hilarious. Begging and pleading the government to step in and save the life of that dude from Georgia a few weeks back from being put to death and using that to fight for the elimination of the death penalty, but defend to the death the to keep government from taking away their right to kill babies, and many of them who support partial birth.

How'd I do?

Oh and as a conservative I like gays, but not in a Ted Haggard way

[Orenthal]

eO suggests, without evidence or argument, that Bush won Ohio on the basis of DOMA.

Funny.

Come on Dan. Putting wedge issues on the ballot in swing states is a tactic as old as politics. The Republicans were energizing are part of their base with a red-meat ballot issue. Let's not kid ourselves.

The Dems tried it here in Ohio the next cycle with the mandated sick days ballot issue.

[FUDU]

You totally miss the point and always have, trying to pawn it off as being drunk and joking around doesn't change that fact. You let your self obsessed Internet personaguard down, the real you showed up, and now you're simply trying to jusifty.

You're the one who runs around the Internet calling numerous people racists, yet you're the only one who has made a pretty ignorant and insulting racial slur.......tells a lot about you. There's been worse things said on the Internet for sure , been worse things done, but if you're going to talk the talk you have to walk the walk son. You lack intellectuasl honesty along with a mirror.

Back on topic, politicians suck and do not have our interests at heart.

[Orenthal]

That post is a bit involved to explain, but essentially you got it.

Also, cute that FUDU cyber stalks me on boards he doesn't and didn't post on just save the fine dandy pic for posting 2 years later. Talk about love... :-)

FUDU <3s me.

I like how old ned's avatar got some play, btw Ned would back me up on Top Gear...

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Are we getting bombarded with requests from people who want to marry their dogs or grandmothers? If someone wants 2 extra spouses, I personally don't care. Two wives sounds like a fuckload of headaches.

I'm not exactly sure how you equate gay marriage with potential incest and beastieality.

Honestly, I don't give a shit what people do behind closed doors, as long as you're not hurting anyone or having sex with a child.

It would be nice for the pro gay marriage side of the argument to at least admit that there's is the radical project...the one that cuts against centuries of tradition and practice

Is it really that radical though?

[Orenthal]

So is that it, are we done?

I'm glad we got this board going again. Love it.

[swerb]

So is that it, are we done?

I'm glad we got this board going again. Love it.

I just wanna know what I gotta do to get a god damn Godfathers Pizza.

[Orenthal]

http://www.godfathers.com/Franchising/

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Is there anyway we could work abortion into this thread

I find bleeding heart liberals hilarious. Begging and pleading the government to step in and save the life of that dude from Georgia a few weeks back from being put to death and using that to fight for the elimination of the death penalty, but defend to the death the to keep government from taking away their right to kill babies, and many of them who support partial birth.

How'd I do?

Oh and as a conservative I like gays, but not in a Ted Haggard way

My opposition to the Troy Davis execution is based on the evidence, when you have 7 people out of 9 recanting their stories, and another 10 saying it was another man, plus the lack of any DNA evidence or murder weapon, their is too much of a risk you're executing an innocent man.

There have been a lot of people sitting on Death Row that were exonerated, the idea of executing a innocent person is some heavy heavy shit, man.

As for the death penalty, I admit i'm a fence sitter. I'd have to say their are some crimes so heinous the perpetrator doesn't deserve to live. That's just the way I feel.

[Ziner]

So why do liberals want the government to stop the killing of innocent adults but not innocent babies?

Why do you hate babies CDT?

[motherscratcher]

Is there anyway we could work abortion into this thread

I find bleeding heart liberals hilarious. Begging and pleading the government to step in and save the life of that dude from Georgia a few weeks back from being put to death and using that to fight for the elimination of the death penalty, but defend to the death the to keep government from taking away their right to kill babies, and many of them who support partial birth.

How'd I do?

Oh and as a conservative I like gays, but not in a Ted Haggard way

My opposition to the Troy Davis execution is based on the evidence, when you have 7 people out of 9 recanting their stories, and another 10 saying it was another man, plus the lack of any DNA evidence or murder weapon, their is too much of a risk you're executing an innocent man.

There have been a lot of people sitting on Death Row that were exonerated, the idea of executing a innocent person is some heavy heavy shit, man.

As for the death penalty, I admit i'm a fence sitter. I'd have to say their are some crimes so heinous the perpetrator doesn't deserve to live. That's just the way I feel.

This a million times

[danwismar]

Come on Dan. Putting wedge issues on the ballot in swing states is a tactic as old as politics. The Republicans were energizing are part of their base with a red-meat ballot issue. Let's not kid ourselves.

The Dems tried it here in Ohio the next cycle with the mandated sick days ballot issue.

Admitting that it's a wedge issue used to try to motivate GOP base voters is not the same as attributing Bush's victory to it being there, nor does it make bigots out of the people so motivated. I think a ton of people, like me, consider it a minor, peripheral issue.

[HoodooMan]

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[e0y2e3]

Are we getting bombarded with requests from people who want to marry their dogs or grandmothers? If someone wants 2 extra spouses, I personally don't care. Two wives sounds like a fuckload of headaches.

I'm not exactly sure how you equate gay marriage with potential incest and beastieality.

Honestly, I don't give a shit what people do behind closed doors, as long as you're not hurting anyone or having sex with a child.

It would be nice for the pro gay marriage side of the argument to at least admit that there's is the radical project...the one that cuts against centuries of tradition and practice

Is it really that radical though?

Yeah, not gonna lie, Dan's slippy slope from Gay Marriage to fucking goats was pretty effin epic.

I lived in Cambridge for a year, gay Marriage is legal there and I can proudly report that I never once saw anyone fucking animals of any sort.

I also didn't see any old ladies diddling their grandchildren.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

So why do liberals want the government to stop the killing of innocent adults but not innocent babies?

Why do you hate babies CDT?

I can't speak for all liberals, but the difference that will be argued is one is state sanctioned, the other is personal choice for a woman. The idea that you can force someone to carry a child they may not be able to provide a decent life for, or the child will be born with sever physical or mental handicaps (which is why amniocentesis is used), is not right. The feeling is Republicans want to use big government to force their beliefs on someone, but want no part is the actual raising and caring for the child. I doubt very highly Republicans are going are going to agree to set aside money to take of unwanted babies.

For me, I don't feel it's my place to tell a woman what she can or can't do with something that's insider her, something she has to deal with.

[e0y2e3]

WHAT CDT SAID

(I DON'T LIKE AGREEING W/ CDT IT SUCKS)

[Ziner]

WHY ALL THE CAPS? IS YOUR KEYBOARD BROKE?

In general I have better things to worry about than all of these issues, I don't care about abortion or criminals. I just get humored at liberals, mainly this one huge douche from Denver progressive radio (Mario Solis-Marich), who adamantly fight for not putting criminals to death while at the same time supporting a woman's right to kill her baby, it is killing regardless of the reason.

[e0y2e3]

I guess my initial point in this thread was that economically I don't think either side and any of these fucksticks are going to get anything done. As I said, nothing is going to change till that next bubble pops up (PUN NOT INTENDED).

My only real political fear is one of these whack job conservatives (MY GAWD HUCKABEE??????) getting in office, lightening striking two of the supremem court justices and bigotry and religitards having a chance to fundamentally alter our rights. This doesn't even bring into account the fact that because of the whacked out right our rights have been strangled and prevented from natural growth anyhow in terms of the simple (gay marriage) and the evil (death penalty).

The rest of the issues, well, however you cut the jib between Rep or Dem by the time any of that crap gets through congress it respresents an orgy of fail from both sides of the aisle. Not to mention that anymore the difference between their policies is extremely minor.

I can't in good faith vote for any of these asshats, but I am genuinely scared about our rights being infringed upon by the right. The economy, national security and all of that shit, well I can't tell them apart. One's dark gray and one light gray, but it's still a gross shade of gray.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

In general I have better things to worry about than all of these issues, I don't care about abortion or criminals. I just get humored at liberals, mainly this one huge douche from Denver progressive radio (Mario Solis-Marich), who adamantly fight for not putting criminals to death while at the same time supporting a woman's right to kill her baby, it is killing regardless of the reason.

If you don't care, then why are you bringing it up?

It's easy to just sum it up as "killing", without considering all the variables involved. Adoption is an option sometimes, but not in all cases. If a child is born with server physical or mental handicaps, chances are they will need a lot of doctor care throughout their lives. It's expensive and not everyone can do it, i'd bet in some cases health insurers may not cover an adopted child's lifelong medical needs. Is it better to bring a child into the world that will not be cared for, or to not bring it into the world at all?

I think some people assume that getting an abortion is a willy nilly decision.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

I believe the whole "slippery slope" argument was used to try and block interracial marriage too. After whites and blacks could marry there were no outcries for people be allowed to marry dogs or relatives that I know of.

[swerb]

I could give two shits about gay marriage, abortion, or the environment. I don't care, at all. Those should be state issues.

I want the government to interject some accountability in how they spend tax dollars. Since this will realistically never happen, I am in favor of never increasing taxes, ever ... to force some sort of fiscal restraint on these assholes that control our tax dollars.

I want someone to fix this broken economy. Obama has proven 100x over that he is so unqualified to lead on this task that it's comical.

And I want someone to keep America safe and do the exact opposite of whatever Dennis Kucinish says when it comes to foreign policy.

There is a massive gap between those issues and whatever would be fourth on my list.

[e0y2e3]

FWIW: my argument isn't that those issues aren't more important Swerb, it is that the Republicans are as free spending as stupid as the Dems economically anymore. I mean my lord, they trotted out McCain during the economic collapse w/ a tax plan that would have incurred so much additional debt that Obama would have looked like a freaking penny pincher.

And w/ the asshats in congress still getting there say I genuinely don't think any presidential candidate does anything different w/ the economy. It's sad because the fiscal conservative side of me used to win in my inner battles, but fiscal conservatism is dead. Today you have a right wing that economically is left of center then a far left that hosts what used to be the left wing. IMO, Obama falls middle left.

And foreign policy wise I think Obama has done a great job, it's pretty much the only thing I will give him big props on. The rest of it, well he's just another one of the sheep that serve the machine.

[Ziner]

If you don't care, then why are you bringing it up?

Because you asked if there was a way to bring abortion in to the thread. Baby killer.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

If you don't care, then why are you bringing it up?

Because you asked if there was a way to bring abortion in to the thread. Baby killer.

No I made a joke about how much this thread has bounced around. I really wasn't expecting to debate abortion.

[e0y2e3]

CDT eats dead babies.

[Orenthal]

Out of the Republican canidates only Santorum and Bachman scare me as crazy social conservatives, and Perry scares me as a guy that will use Government power to fulfill whatever ends he deems justified at the moment. IMO, he has no morals, and the other two, push their creed against the will of the Constitution.

That leaves Cain, Gingrich, Huntsman, Paul, and Romney. Massholes can tell us better about Romney, but he strikes me as typical politician. Huntsman, whom I think gives good answers during the debates, is too moderate to get traction, and is better as a VP canidate. Paul is dead right on half the issues, but straight kooky on the other half. Gingrich too much personal baggage, and Cain is off the cuff, which is great and horribly bad in a politician.

Either way Obama's takeover of 1/6th of the economy, his push and support for Dodd/Frank, and backdoor regulations, prevent me from even thinking of voting for him. Cain represents a better shot at SMALLER GOVERNMENT then Obama. I guess I have to vote for the party that at the very least makes token gestures in that direction, then the one going for central planning. Socialism leads in one direction...

Fuck all you btw. The Republicans have the only gay rights activist running for President in Fred Karger.

[Ziner]

If you don't care, then why are you bringing it up?

Because you asked if there was a way to bring abortion in to the thread. Baby killer.

No I made a joke about how much this thread has bounced around. I really wasn't expecting to debate abortion.

Your joke wasn't funny.

and you probably do eat dead babies.