Egypt, & seriously Cleveland?

[Erie Warrior]

Anderson Cooper walks into the middle of an enormous riot, then reports he was accosted by demonstrators. No shit.

The footage of guys running up and punching the injured dudes as they are carried away is crazy. Watched a dude get Reginald Denny'd from a horse as well.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Anderson Cooper wanted to be accosted. The idea of being grabbed and pushed by mustachaed men is a good night for him.

[Ziner]

Anderson Cooper walks into the middle of an enormous riot, then reports he was accosted by demonstrators. No shit.

The footage of guys running up and punching the injured dudes as they are carried away is crazy. Watched a dude get Reginald Denny'd from a horse as well.

Is it too late for MSNBC to send over Olbermann?

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Anderson Cooper walks into the middle of an enormous riot, then reports he was accosted by demonstrators. No shit.

The footage of guys running up and punching the injured dudes as they are carried away is crazy. Watched a dude get Reginald Denny'd from a horse as well.

Is it too late for MSNBC to send over Olbermann?

Did you see what I said about Anderson Cooper and men with mustaches?

[Ziner]

Anderson Cooper walks into the middle of an enormous riot, then reports he was accosted by demonstrators. No shit.

The footage of guys running up and punching the injured dudes as they are carried away is crazy. Watched a dude get Reginald Denny'd from a horse as well.

Is it too late for MSNBC to send over Olbermann?

Did you see what I said about Anderson Cooper and men with mustaches?

Didn't know Olbermann was gay too, but that explains a lot.... he did always act like he had a dick up his ass.

[Orenthal]

^

[jb]

Egyptian military trying to get journalists away from T Square

[Ziner]

JB's day of horror is here. Time for the Egyptians to decide who their president will be.

I am amused at the liberals that are appalled that the US maintained a long relationship with such a brutal dictator and cheer for the freedom of their people, but still harp on Iraq. If those protests happened in Iraq there would be 100k dead or would have never been able to be started in the first place.

Also amused at the GOP assholes who want to stand by Mubarak and call him an ally when the guy is really scum from most accounts but supported taking down Saddam.

Not really interested in starting a whole Iraq thing again, we know where everyone stands, I just am amused by it and wanted to get it out there.

[danwismar]

Wherever you stood on Iraq, it's safe to say that the "Freedom Agenda" is back in fashion, and promotion of democracy in the Middle East is no longer something to be sneered at and mocked by the bien pensants.

Sad that it is something we are willing (now) to promote for our ostensible "friends" (Egypt), but still appear to be unwilling to promote for countries brutally oppressed by people who are our sworn enemies (Iran, Syria).

Baby steps, I guess.

[Jumbo]

Good for the Egyptians.

JB's day of horror is here. Time for the Egyptians to decide who their president will be.

I am amused at the liberals that are appalled that the US maintained a long relationship with such a brutal dictator and cheer for the freedom of their people, but still harp on Iraq. If those protests happened in Iraq there would be 100k dead or would have never been able to be started in the first place.

Also amused at the GOP assholes who want to stand by Mubarak and call him an ally when the guy is really scum from most accounts but supported taking down Saddam.

Not really interested in starting a whole Iraq thing again, we know where everyone stands, I just am amused by it and wanted to get it out there.

There's no such thing as principle in international affairs. Anyone who says anything different is clueless or a liar.

[Orenthal]

Good for the Egyptians.
There's no such thing as principle in international affairs. Anyone who says anything different is clueless or a liar.

It is why IMO we should just take them all over... Steal the resources.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Wherever you stood on Iraq, it's safe to say that the "Freedom Agenda" is back in fashion, and promotion of democracy in the Middle East is no longer something to be sneered at and mocked by the bien pensants.

Sad that it is something we are willing (now) to promote for our ostensible "friends" (Egypt), but still appear to be unwilling to promote for countries brutally oppressed by people who are our sworn enemies (Iran, Syria).

Baby steps, I guess.

Kinda counting eggs before they hatch, no? We have no idea what will happen in Egypt, a Pro-Western democracy that doesn't want to destroy Israel would be nice...... but it could end in military dictatorship ala Pervez Musharraf and Pakistan and Egyptians would be no better off. Alot of entrenched monarchies in that area too. They aren't going anywhere soon.

Hope for the best and prepare for the worst I guess.

And you mention Syria and Iran but not North Korea? I think that should be priority No. 1. Nuclear armed and incredibly hostile towards us and our allies.

[danwismar]

I'm not assuming any particular outcome at all CDT. No egg-counting here. Hoping for the best of course.

My comment was about the rhetoric from our foreign policy apparatus and our president, and its inconsistency from one country to the next. When the Revolutionary Guard were shooting Iranian democracy protesters in the streets in 2009, it took Obama weeks before he issued a statement on their behalf, and he hasn't exactly been their champion since. We have yet to hear a call for the dictators to step down and begin the immediate transition to self-government. And that is a regime that has been actively killing Americans wherever and whenever it can for 32 years, and sowing terror all over the world.

Also how democracy promotion in the ME was viewed by certain elites as misguided and foolish at best and as "cultural imperialism" and bullying at worst, when it was practiced by the other party. My point was how the concept is being rehabilitated today.

Don't get me wrong. I'm glad to see self-styled "liberals" acting in a way worthy of the handle.

As for egg-counting, we can be clear-eyed about the prospects for actually achieving a working democracy in those countries, without backing off promoting and encouraging it consistently. The idea is to be perceived as the friend of the people, not the friend of the dictator. Not always possible when you're competing with vicious anti-American propaganda, but still worth trying.

Also, in reply to one previous poster...acting in our nation's interests (the endgame of "international affairs") and acting on principle are not mutually exclusive.

[Kingpin3]

I am amused at the liberals that are appalled that the US maintained a long relationship with such a brutal dictator and cheer for the freedom of their people, ...

You are amused by people who want other people to enjoy freedom from a brutal dictator?

Really?

::facepalm

[Fire Marshall Bill]

I am amused at the liberals that are appalled that the US maintained a long relationship with such a brutal dictator and cheer for the freedom of their people, ...

You are amused by people who want other people to enjoy freedom from a brutal dictator?

Really?

::facepalm

Someone ban this ignorant fucking asshole before he does to this site what he did to WWR

There's not a bigger fucking puke on the net than KingFuck who can make bw look like Mary Fucking Poppins

You're a worthless pile of shit fuckface...go eat cock and choke to deth on the jism

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Good for the Egyptians.
There's no such thing as principle in international affairs. Anyone who says anything different is clueless or a liar.

It is why IMO we should just take them all over... Steal the resources.

Simplicity rocks!!!

Turn the ME into glass...put on the suits...go get the oil

No more muslims no more angst over oil

[Kingpin3]

Your well thought out plan is to kill women, children and create untold amounts of ecological nuclear damage.

Why are you a blithering coward?

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Your well thought out plan is to kill women, children and create untold amounts of ecological nuclear damage.

Why are you a blithering coward?

Fuck you twatwaffle....I'm gonna get you run out of here

[Kingpin3]

No worries.

In the arena of ideas, the fucktards, like you, always seek to silence opposing views. This is due to your inability to defend your positions.

Nobody is surprised.

[Orenthal]

^The world was a better place before deinstitutionalization. Unless your posting from the asylum? Doc really needs to pump up your Thorazine levels.

[Ziner]

No worries.

In the arena of ideas, the fucktards, like you, always seek to silence opposing views. This is due to your inability to defend your positions.

Nobody is surprised.

You are new here, but I lurk over at OBR and have seen your act. I have never felt the desire to get involved over there, partly because of you. You are a large part of the garbage over there, this place will not become like that. Don't intentionally misquote me so my comment means something other than intended. Don't be a virus. You are three posts in, and off to a hell of a start. You will not be allowed to be an asshole. There is only one rule here, don't break it. \

Have a nice day.

[Orenthal]

Pull up, pull up, do not engage in any meaningful dialogue.

You know this. Kingpin is the ultimate answer of YES for the legalization of abortion.

[Kingpin3]

I think my presence will increase traffic over here. I suspect once my whereabouts become known that you'll see more traffic. The jesus freaks and conservatives just love to hate me.

We all know that conservatives/religitards love to argue and I happen to be excellent at crushing their retarded points. So I think I add to this board. Give me a month or so and see if your traffic increases.

If I don't fit. Let me know now.

[Ziner]

I think my presence will increase traffic over here. I suspect once my whereabouts become known that you'll see more traffic. The jesus freaks and conservatives just love to hate me.

We all know that conservatives/religitards love to argue and I happen to be excellent at crushing their retarded points. So I think I add to this board. Give me a month or so and see if your traffic increases.

If I don't fit. Let me know now.

I could be wrong, but IMO, the sole purpose of this site is not quantity of posters or posts. Swerb or Peeks can speak to whether they want an increase of traffic because of a train wreck. I would prefer not to. I would be happy to engage you in real and honest discussions, we can start as if I haven't seen your act at OBR because you are new to this site. So if you would like to discuss my entire point made above have at it. If you want to prove yourself to be a mental midget then continue on your way of sniping in with religitard comments. Just looking for thoughtful discussion, not flame throwers.

[Kingpin3]

Okay... lets start fresh. Give me the TL;DR version of your point.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

I think my presence will increase traffic over here. I suspect once my whereabouts become known that you'll see more traffic. The jesus freaks and conservatives just love to hate me.

We all know that conservatives/religitards love to argue and I happen to be excellent at crushing their retarded points. So I think I add to this board. Give me a month or so and see if your traffic increases.

If I don't fit. Let me know now.

Like the boy rabbit aid to the girl rabbit, "this won't take long, did it?"

You don't fit in.

Bye
Bye

[Jumbo]

Good for the Egyptians.
There's no such thing as principle in international affairs. Anyone who says anything different is clueless or a liar.

It is why IMO we should just take them all over... Steal the resources.

Just b/c there's no principles doesn't mean you can do whatever you want.

What it means is that the things that constrain you are other nations, their people, economy, and military. And the high costs (in lives and money) for doing what you want.

Examples of principles that don't matter when the chips are down: human rights, "democracy," self-determination.

[Kingpin3]

See what I mean Ziner?

FMB has been obsessively on my dick since I stepped in here and has yet to make a coherent post.

Throw up any political or religious topic and I will give you my well reasoned take and I will leave the flame throwing for FMB. Plus, FMB will spread the word over at OBR that Kingpin is back.

[Ziner]

Okay... lets start fresh. Give me the TL;DR version of your point.

You and FMB have a past, I am not getting involved in that, he has proven himself capable of having discussions with people other than you. If you start posting with thought, reason and with out vitirol my guess he would give up.

I dont really have a tl;dr version of my point. These things aren't bullet points, there is always a layer of nuance to an event of this magnitude. I was simply telling JB his day of horror is here because now the Egyptians get to choose their leader, I am all for it. They may not pick the person we hope they do, but if they play nicely in their sandbox then I have no doubt Egypt will grow. I want democracy in the middle east because I trust in people to do what is best for them. This could all blow up and we could get Islamic extremists running major ME countries, but America and americans should not be content with the status quo. Let them have freedom and see if that brings them out of the 4th century. Nothing else has worked.

The main premise of my post was to point out the blantant hypocrisy by politicians left and right. Left celebrates this as the best thing since sliced bread, but continue to rail on Iraq as not having hope, being unsuccessful, and talk as if it is a lost cause. I would like to cut off the argument that if the people of Iraq wanted democracy they could have protested for it like the Egyptians. I find that argument laughable because Saddam would have killed or tortured the protesters. For as bad as Mubarak was, at least he eventually allowed the freedom of expression.

Right does not get off scott free when McCain and other assholes are touting Mubarak as an ally. I have an issue with scum being our ally. Mubarak wasn't a ton better than Saddam and pretty much all righties wanted Saddam out of power.

I don't intend to start an Iraq discussion, I am just pointing out the ridiculousness.

If people are given the option of choice, I (perhaps naively) assume they are going to make the right one.

Certainly tl;dr material, but life isnt cliff notes, it takes more than a sentence or two to have meaningful discussion.


Now forgive me if I dont respond for a while. My hippie ass is off to Vail and Beavercreek for the weekend. Play nicely kids!!

[Orenthal]

I think my presence will increase traffic over here. I suspect once my whereabouts become known that you'll see more traffic. The jesus freaks and conservatives just love to hate me.

We all know that conservatives/religitards love to argue and I happen to be excellent at crushing their retarded points. So I think I add to this board. Give me a month or so and see if your traffic increases.

If I don't fit. Let me know now.

You only think it? I was worried about your self esteem, until you got to that "crushing" part. Love that delusional confidence.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

If you start posting with thought, reason and with out vitirol my guess he would give up.

Never happen

Either scenerio

Watch and learn

...and know that I am not the only here one who will say aloud

[hermanfontenot]

...and know that I am not the only here one who will say aloud

No, you are not.

Kingpin is a virus that infects every forum he inhabits.

[Orenthal]

Good for the Egyptians.
There's no such thing as principle in international affairs. Anyone who says anything different is clueless or a liar.

It is why IMO we should just take them all over... Steal the resources.

Just b/c there's no principles doesn't mean you can do whatever you want.

What it means is that the things that constrain you are other nations, their people, economy, and military. And the high costs (in lives and money) for doing what you want.

Examples of principles that don't matter when the chips are down: human rights, "democracy," self-determination.

Jumbo I am quite aware of the point you were making in your OP. There is no easy/right answer in terms of foreign policy. Our interests, their interests, overall geopolitical stability of a region. So many factors that are constantly changing. The situation is too fluid and hindsight judgements are mostly useful in political races and partisan attacks. They add nothing to the "overall" good.

I'm just of the opinion that our interests are paramount to any of the above. Our current bend over backward policy has me making hyperbolic statements. Though I truly believe we should be projecting our power much more aggressively.

[Orenthal]

It took all of 5 posts for him to whip out tl;dr, more like "can't compute". He really can't put together a position that isn't filled with red-eyed rage.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Stupid ass foreingers and pussies who are all like "Yo yous can't be bombing Egypt for their oil and pyramids", I was like "oh yes we can, we're MURRICA, bitch, we have blue jeans and RC Cola, we does as we please with our bombs and your pyramids". Then this slut from a drum circle threw fake blood on me and called me a "pyramid opressor", so I impregnated her with my seed and now she loves me.

This is how I Diplomacize.

[peeker643]

KingPin,

This will be really simple and does not require or request (read: want to see) a response.

People on both sides of the party aisle have requested you be removed before you really get started. The blessing (for you) is I have zero posts on any other board and I have no idea who you are or what you do.

But I do trust the people here implicitly.

So I'm telling you that you are welcome until you violate the one rule of the boards: Don't be an asshole. It's pretty self explanatory but it's derived from respecting the people here and respecting the site.

You do that and all is well. If you don't you're no longer welcome.

And while we live freely (more or less) in a republic the boards are an oligarchy resting on the whimsy of whichever mod is online at a given time.

That said, Bienvido. Nuestra casa es su casa para ahora.

[Kingpin3]

You and FMB have a past

I have no idea who FMB is.

The main premise of my post was to point out the blantant hypocrisy by politicians left and right. Left celebrates this as the best thing since sliced bread, but continue to rail on Iraq as not having hope, being unsuccessful, and talk as if it is a lost cause. I would like to cut off the argument that if the people of Iraq wanted democracy they could have protested for it like the Egyptians. I find that argument laughable because Saddam would have killed or tortured the protesters. For as bad as Mubarak was, at least he eventually allowed the freedom of expression.

We all want democracy in the ME. With democracy you sometimes get religious extremist, like Sarah Palin. Sorry but it can happen. Two and a half weeks later we have democracy in Egypt. 7 years & $100 gazillion dollars later we have nothing in Iraq. Iraq being a country Bush invaded based on lies. A subtle difference between the two countries that isn't usually lost on most peeps.

[Orenthal]

eh, we prolly don't do enough politics to keep you around anyway.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

I have no idea who FMB is.

Sweet!

[Cerebral_DownTime]

I'm not sure i'd even say Sarah Palin is a "religious extremist", dumb as shit sure, but not a fanatic.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

I'm not i'd even say Sarah Palin is a "religious extremist", dumb as shit sure, but not a fanatic.

Do you believe in God?

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Not really.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Not really.

Then you and Kingpin will get along

Evryone else, not so much

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Probably not.

We already disagree or Sarah Palin.

[FUDU]

If I don't fit. Let me know now.

OK, you don't fit, so don't let the door hit you in the cock hole.

Buh bye.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

This forum is way more laid back than the crap i've read at the OBR. Sure we bang heads, but even the people I don't agree with have a sense of humor....... plus alot of our threads end up about food, monkeys, or midgets.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

This forum is way more laid back than the crap i've read at the OBR. Sure we bang heads, but even the people I don't agree with have a sense of humor....... plus alot of our threads end up about food, monkeys, or midgets.

Two different arenas...

WWR is a great place to rage and insult others for the pleasure of it. Just pick someone to hate on and have at it....hell, you'd fit right in on a good day

Even mitch shows up when there's blood in the water...

[peeker643]

What exactly is WWR? Is it part of OBR? I'm not involved with either but when people reference these things I'd like to know what they're talking about.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

What exactly is WWR? Is it part of OBR? I'm not involved with either but when people reference these things I'd like to know what they're talking about.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=149&f=4397

[jb]

Wherever you stood on Iraq, it's safe to say that the "Freedom Agenda" is back in fashion, and promotion of democracy in the Middle East is no longer something to be sneered at and mocked by the bien pensants.

Sad that it is something we are willing (now) to promote for our ostensible "friends" (Egypt), but still appear to be unwilling to promote for countries brutally oppressed by people who are our sworn enemies (Iran, Syria).

Baby steps, I guess.

Oh, I'm still sneering. Rolling my eyes too , and boy does that take face muscle discipline!

Danny and Ziner, don't be simpletons and play checkers. This is all about chess. This thing won't shake out in a meaningful form for YEARS. It isn't about some photo opp of an old peasant woman with a blue finger fresh from her ballot drop. Not by a longshot.

In Egypt, the military ran the nation three weeks ago and it stll does. New boss. Old boss. Roger daltry. All that. Not exactly tFrance in 1789. And thank goid they smak down the muslim brohood.

And FWIW by far the most brutal regieme is Saudi Arabia.