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Polish President and Leaders Dead In Plane Crash

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Polish President and Leaders Dead In Plane Crash

Unread postby jack_tors » Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:47 am

The president of Poland and top government officials were killed when their plane crashed during landing in Western Russia. Pilot error is suspected as the cause.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100410/ap_on_re_eu/eu_russia_plane_crash;_ylt=Am4uLQEOOa1mnWDkCoCZc3us0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNsdTU2YjA4BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwNDEwL2V1X3J1c3NpYV9wbGFuZV9jcmFzaARjY29kZQNtb3N0cG9wdWxhcgRjcG9zAzEEcG9zAzIEcHQDaG9tZV9jb2tlBHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcnkEc2xrA3BvbGlzaGxlYWRlcg--

What a terrible accident. One can only hope the government can find a way to maintain stability during a time of great loss and chaos.
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Re: Polish President and Leaders Dead In Plane Crash

Unread postby hebner20 » Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:09 am

I can't remember this ever happening before but maybe I am missing the obvious. Can you imagine how big this is over there? Hopefully there will be a peaceful transition of power. I guess over 100 were on the plane.
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Re: Polish President and Leaders Dead In Plane Crash

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:35 am

Interested to see the mood of the mass of Polish guys I work with next week.
They're already quite morose at work
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Re: Polish President and Leaders Dead In Plane Crash

Unread postby skatingtripods » Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:18 am

Russian and Polish officials said there were no survivors on the 26-year-old Tupolev


Top government officials in Poland have to fly around on a plane that's 26 years old?

Sad story all around.

Air Force Gen. Alexander Alyoshin confirmed that the pilot disregarded instructions to fly to another airfield.


What, does this guy have to get off on landing in fog and being macho? With the people he had on board, he should definitely have listened to instructions.
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Re: Polish President and Leaders Dead In Plane Crash

Unread postby jfiling » Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:26 am

skatingtripods wrote:
Russian and Polish officials said there were no survivors on the 26-year-old Tupolev


Top government officials in Poland have to fly around on a plane that's 26 years old?

Sad story all around.

The two airplanes that function as Air Force One have been in operation for 20 and 19 years, and will continue for at least another 7.

http://www.af.mil/information/factsheet ... p?fsID=131
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_VC-25
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Re: Polish President and Leaders Dead In Plane Crash

Unread postby skatingtripods » Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:38 am

jfiling wrote:
skatingtripods wrote:
Russian and Polish officials said there were no survivors on the 26-year-old Tupolev


Top government officials in Poland have to fly around on a plane that's 26 years old?

Sad story all around.

The two airplanes that function as Air Force One have been in operation for 20 and 19 years, and will continue for at least another 7.

http://www.af.mil/information/factsheet ... p?fsID=131
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_VC-25


In my mind, there's a bit of a difference between Air Force One and who we have working on it and a Tupolev plane. The Tu-154 that the Polish President was riding in is now retired by the company that makes it. If the plane is 26, it was probably built around the same time that the 10 Tu-154's crashed in the early 90s were built.
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Re: Polish President and Leaders Dead In Plane Crash

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:42 pm

Polish people can't fly.
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Re: Polish President and Leaders Dead In Plane Crash

Unread postby jfiling » Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:09 pm

skatingtripods wrote:
jfiling wrote:
skatingtripods wrote:
Russian and Polish officials said there were no survivors on the 26-year-old Tupolev


Top government officials in Poland have to fly around on a plane that's 26 years old?

Sad story all around.

The two airplanes that function as Air Force One have been in operation for 20 and 19 years, and will continue for at least another 7.

http://www.af.mil/information/factsheet ... p?fsID=131
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_VC-25


In my mind, there's a bit of a difference between Air Force One and who we have working on it and a Tupolev plane. The Tu-154 that the Polish President was riding in is now retired by the company that makes it. If the plane is 26, it was probably built around the same time that the 10 Tu-154's crashed in the early 90s were built.

Good point. I thought you were just referring to the date of the plane, but I guess you know more about the Polish airplanes than I. Do they have more than one plane like we do or was it just the one?
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Re: Polish President and Leaders Dead In Plane Crash

Unread postby leadpipe » Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:12 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Polish people can't fly.


I heard many a story in grade school concerning the poles and flight. Usually they were aboard a craft with a white guy and a black guy.

Those never seemed to end well either.
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Re: Polish President and Leaders Dead In Plane Crash

Unread postby skatingtripods » Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:26 pm

jfiling wrote:Good point. I thought you were just referring to the date of the plane, but I guess you know more about the Polish airplanes than I. Do they have more than one plane like we do or was it just the one?


I googled it to avoid looking like an ass. Just so happened that the information backed up my point a little. ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Polish President and Leaders Dead In Plane Crash

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:41 pm

I like Poles

they keep my tent up when I'm camping
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Re: Polish President and Leaders Dead In Plane Crash

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:27 pm

leadpipe wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Polish people can't fly.


I heard many a story in grade school concerning the poles and flight. Usually they were aboard a craft with a white guy and a black guy.

Those never seemed to end well either.


They also always end up in bars together.
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Re: Polish President and Leaders Dead In Plane Crash

Unread postby skatingtripods » Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:33 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
leadpipe wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Polish people can't fly.


I heard many a story in grade school concerning the poles and flight. Usually they were aboard a craft with a white guy and a black guy.

Those never seemed to end well either.


They also always end up in bars together.


With a priest and a rabbi.
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Re: Polish President and Leaders Dead In Plane Crash

Unread postby waborat » Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:58 pm

skatingtripods wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
leadpipe wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Polish people can't fly.


I heard many a story in grade school concerning the poles and flight. Usually they were aboard a craft with a white guy and a black guy.

Those never seemed to end well either.


They also always end up in bars together.


With a priest and a rabbi.


And a jerking monkey
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Re: Polish President and Leaders Dead In Plane Crash

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:41 pm

waborat wrote:
skatingtripods wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
leadpipe wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Polish people can't fly.


I heard many a story in grade school concerning the poles and flight. Usually they were aboard a craft with a white guy and a black guy.

Those never seemed to end well either.


They also always end up in bars together.


With a priest and a rabbi.


And a jerking monkey


...and a nun and a hooker
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Re: Polish President and Leaders Dead In Plane Crash

Unread postby motherscratcher » Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:03 pm

Fire Marshall Bill wrote:
waborat wrote:
skatingtripods wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
leadpipe wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Polish people can't fly.


I heard many a story in grade school concerning the poles and flight. Usually they were aboard a craft with a white guy and a black guy.

Those never seemed to end well either.


They also always end up in bars together.


With a priest and a rabbi.


And a jerking monkey


...and a nun and a hooker


And a light bulb
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Re: Polish President and Leaders Dead In Plane Crash

Unread postby skatingtripods » Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:07 pm

skatingtripods wrote:
jfiling wrote:Good point. I thought you were just referring to the date of the plane, but I guess you know more about the Polish airplanes than I. Do they have more than one plane like we do or was it just the one?


I googled it to avoid looking like an ass. Just so happened that the information backed up my point a little. ;-) ;) :wink:


Here jfiling:

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/04/10 ... v-crashes/
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Re: Polish President and Leaders Dead In Plane Crash

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:16 pm

Motherscratcher wrote:
Fire Marshall Bill wrote:
waborat wrote:
skatingtripods wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
leadpipe wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Polish people can't fly.


I heard many a story in grade school concerning the poles and flight. Usually they were aboard a craft with a white guy and a black guy.

Those never seemed to end well either.


They also always end up in bars together.


With a priest and a rabbi.


And a jerking monkey


...and a nun and a hooker


And a light bulb


Polish people don't have light bulbs.

Maybe that's why the joke works?
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Re: Polish President and Leaders Dead In Plane Crash

Unread postby FUDU » Sun Apr 11, 2010 7:32 pm

Those aren't booeys.
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Re: Polish President and Leaders Dead In Plane Crash

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Apr 11, 2010 7:55 pm

Motherscratcher wrote:
Fire Marshall Bill wrote:
waborat wrote:
skatingtripods wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
leadpipe wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Polish people can't fly.


I heard many a story in grade school concerning the poles and flight. Usually they were aboard a craft with a white guy and a black guy.

Those never seemed to end well either.


They also always end up in bars together.


With a priest and a rabbi.


And a jerking monkey


...and a nun and a hooker


And a light bulb


Think the Prez had the national recipe for ice on board that craft?
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Re: Polish President and Leaders Dead In Plane Crash

Unread postby waborat » Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:40 pm

peeker643 wrote:Think the Prez had the national recipe for ice on board that craft?


Hard to chuckle at that one...

Because I sometimes think a lot of folks in this country have forgotten the recipe as well
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Re: Polish President and Leaders Dead In Plane Crash

Unread postby mistero » Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:25 am

How ironic another massacre of the best and brightest Poland has to offer takes place at the hands of the Russians.
This will not be recieved well by the people of Poland.

Give me Poland and their NATO gear versus the backwards russians and their homegrown junk.
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Re: Polish President and Leaders Dead In Plane Crash

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:28 am

mistero wrote:How ironic another massacre of the best and brightest Poland has to offer takes place at the hands of the Russians.
This will not be recieved well by the people of Poland.

Give me Poland and their NATO gear versus the backwards russians and their homegrown junk.


Do you have a link that provides any evidence the Russians had anything to do with the crash?

And one on one, the Russians would crush Poland in a war. They still have a strong military their gear and weapons are hardly "homegrown junk". The Russians have 10 times the number of active military personnel.

Now obviously the whole point of being in NATO is that you have friends to back you up.
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Re: Polish President and Leaders Dead In Plane Crash

Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:57 am

waborat wrote:
peeker643 wrote:Think the Prez had the national recipe for ice on board that craft?


Hard to chuckle at that one...

Because I sometimes think a lot of folks in this country have forgotten the recipe as well


There's reason to believe "Dirty Johnny" may be behind all of this.
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Re: Polish President and Leaders Dead In Plane Crash

Unread postby mistero » Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:48 am

The Russians can't afford fuel to train . Everywhere Russian weapons face US weapons systems the kill ration is 10-1. They are broke and demoralized. They wouldn't have the walk over they did in Georgia. And they wouldn't have the Germans moving in from the west.

The Russians don't scare anyone anymore.
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Re: Polish President and Leaders Dead In Plane Crash

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:58 am

The Russians can't afford fuel to train


Sure. If you don't count the oil they get from Iran, Venezuela, and Saudi Arabia. Not to mention they have some of the largest natural gas fields in the world. Which is a major economic boon for them.

Everywhere Russian weapons face US weapons systems the kill ration is 10-1.


US weapons are better, no doubt. Poland's main fighter aircraft are MiG 29s and a handful of F-16s. Poland has but a few Leopard A2s, which is a excellent MBT, the bulk of their tanks are older T-72 variants. The Russians have many T-90s.

They are broke and demoralized.


Says who? They just unveiled the T-50 5th Generation fighter plane that rivals the Raptor, and are currently working on a Gen 6 fighter and will begin mass production of the T-95 MBT.

Sounds like a broke and demoralized country to me. Shit.... They might as well pack it in. No way they could ever hold off the might of the Polish military, with their Russian planes and tanks.

Bottom line. Alone against Russia, Poland has no chance of holding off a full scale attack for very long. The Russians aren't rock throwing peasants, they're a sophisticated military power.

Edit:

I'm also still curious to why you think Russia had any involvement in the crash of that plane. If you have any links i'd love to read them.
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Re: Polish President and Leaders Dead In Plane Crash

Unread postby mistero » Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:12 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/13/world ... 20224.html

Really? I could link articles all day about the Russian military being broke and in steep decline, meanwhile Poland is in the midst of converting to all NATO equiptment and modernizing in all phases.
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Re: Polish President and Leaders Dead In Plane Crash

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:52 pm

mistero wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/13/world/asia/13iht-russia.4.8320224.html

Really? I could link articles all day about the Russian military being broke and in steep decline, meanwhile Poland is in the midst of converting to all NATO equiptment and modernizing in all phases.


Broke countries usually can't fund Next Gen Programs like the T-50 and T-95.

We had to stop production on the F-22 (which was billions of dollars over budget and behind schedule) because we couldn't afford to keep making them. We had to go cheaper with F-35. Does this mean we're in a military decline?

Equipment and troop wise, what makes you think Poland alone could beat Russia in a war? Honestly, right now, if Poland and Russia decided to go at it, who would win? Because you said you would take Poland over Russia earlier.

I'll say flat out, they aren't the power they once were, but they aren't 3rd world either.
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