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Relocation?

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Relocation?

Unread postby mistero » Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:14 am

I heard message boards offer the best advice so here it is.

I have a job offer for about 10k more a year plus a 20k signing bonus to move to Seattle and work for a private firm. Full beni's and chance for advancement . I work for a big hospital now and have a very safe position with zero chance for advancement...(but also very high job security,pension , and beni's).

I would have to sell the house ,probably just break even, and buy a new house. Plus relocate the kids to new schools, new friends, ect.

The weather and life style looks very appealing . The job is actually in Bremerton on the Puget sound accross from Seattle. It looks pretty small town-ish , nice. The cost of living is 4 percent lower than Cleveland, for what ever that's worth.

I'm leaning 60/40 against taking it.

Can anyone give me a push either way? :thumb up: :thumbdown:
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Re: Relocation?

Unread postby FUDU » Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:31 am

mistero wrote:I heard message boards offer the best advice so here it is.

I have a job offer for about 10k more a year plus a 20k signing bonus to move to Seattle and work for a private firm. Full beni's and chance for advancement . I work for a big hospital now and have a very safe position with zero chance for advancement...(but also very high job security,pension , and beni's).

I would have to sell the house ,probably just break even, and buy a new house. Plus relocate the kids to new schools, new friends, ect.

The weather and life style looks very appealing . The job is actually in Bremerton on the Puget sound accross from Seattle. It looks pretty small town-ish , nice. The cost of living is 4 percent lower than Cleveland, for what ever that's worth.

I'm leaning 60/40 against taking it.

Can anyone give me a push either way? :thumb up: :thumbdown:
The cost of living aspect is interesting.

IMO you need to weigh the increase in income against quality of life and happiness, not just for you but for your family. 10K increase in salary is exactly what % of your income (not asking, just mentioning for you to consider). If it were something like 5% would it really be worth all the hassle with risk of unhappiness? 10% still? You starting approaching 15% or higher IMO it deserves consideration if the job prospect is long long term. Even though the 20K signing bonus is nice the 10K yearly increase is more significant in the long run, plus as most with families know 20K can go real flippin fast. If you truly have confidence in your job security that is a HUGE part to consider as well, sometimes no amount of money can replace that and the PoM that comes with it.

Then the whole being away from family aspect.

I like money as much as the next but is it worth unsettling an otherwise happy all around life situation, tough call no doubt.

IMO, unless you are really unhappy where you are (at job and residing) and the opportunity is life altering financially, you stay put more times than not (assuming current job is decent and you're not just barely making it).
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Re: Relocation?

Unread postby hebner20 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:37 am

My take.

If you like and or tolerate most of everything else about your current situation don't let money be the deciding factor. Who is to say you can't updgrade the job locally or at least within the state. Seattle is a long way from NEO. You are not drivng back from Seattle for visits air travel is the only option.

Good luck.

Edit:(I must have been posting while FUDU was with similar response )
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Re: Relocation?

Unread postby mistero » Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:54 am

Thanks for the takes so far. The money really isn't that much more to help make it a no brainer. The 20k bonus would just get lost as a down pmt on a new house.

All my family/friends are in cleveland.

The wife is more interested than I am,as a chance to have a fresh start. She has persistant drama from her mother and friends.
She would move tomorrow.

I was not looking for this opportunity but once you put your resume on Monster the recruiters pop up every few months with some offer.

Phone interview on Monday. Thinking about asking for the moon to make it easy to say no.
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Re: Relocation?

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:04 pm

mistero wrote:
Phone interview on Monday. Thinking about asking for the moon to make it easy to say no.


How old are the kids? Young kids would make it easier; if they are in middle to high school, it's tough.

Gotta ask them for everything- if they want you, they have to pay to uproot your family and move across the country.
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Re: Relocation?

Unread postby mistero » Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:11 pm

Preschool, 2nd and 4th grade.

4th grader really doesn't want to go but will be ok if he gets his own bedroom away from his little brother.

How quickly into the interview can you make rediculous demands?

I'm in such a bizarre niche job field. I should be making 22K a year bagging groceries. It's surreal sometimes the options life opens and closes for you.
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Re: Relocation?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:38 pm

mistero wrote:Preschool, 2nd and 4th grade.

4th grader really doesn't want to go but will be ok if he gets his own bedroom away from his little brother.

How quickly into the interview can you make rediculous demands?

I'm in such a bizarre niche job field. I should be making 22K a year bagging groceries. It's surreal sometimes the options life opens and closes for you.


Erie had a great question about the kids. They appear to be the right age. We moved a couple of times when the kids were younger - it gets tougher and tougher as they get older. I have turned down opportunities recently because we don't want to uproot them.

I would save the ridiculous demands for the face to face interview. ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Relocation?

Unread postby General » Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:43 pm

Escaping family drama is priceless. Everything else is subjective, money (within reason), area, job, perceived happiness in current job.
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Re: Relocation?

Unread postby mistero » Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:24 pm

Yeah, that's why she is so gung ho about moving.

Me? I would miss my friends and family, but definately not her mother. Cripes that woman needs to be hit by a falling peice of space lab.
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Re: Relocation?

Unread postby Fubar » Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:58 pm

How much do like your job here? If it suits you fine I say stay. The grass isn't always greener. The new job could blow, and then what? A lot to think about.
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Re: Relocation?

Unread postby Commodore Perry » Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:54 pm

mistero wrote:Yeah, that's why she is so gung ho about moving.

Me? I would miss my friends and family, but definately not her mother. Cripes that woman needs to be hit by a falling peice of space lab.


Just because you move to the other side of a continent doesn't mean drama ends.

We're in the age of cell phones, email, facebook, etc.

Trust me, the drama will follow you wherever you go. Maybe it won't show up as often, but it will be there, and it will come out in full force when you visit.
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Re: Relocation?

Unread postby BroncoFan » Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:12 pm

1. Take the interview seriously, take about the need for more $$ later, ask for a contract if you can. It may be a great opportunity, don't disqualify yourself by asking for the moon at the outset. I
2. Interview the heck out of THEM. Be sure who you are working for you will mesh with. Meet them, do not do this deal without going on site. It is too big a shift for your family not to see the area and you not to meet your potential co-workers.
3. What is their financial situation, do they forsee any layoffs and even if they don't is it last hired first fired.
4. What sort of commitment are thy making to your future? Will they train you? Ask them what their expectation is for you to come up to speed, how quickly?
5. What happened to the last guy in your position, why do they need to hire?
6. If you get canned how is the job market there?
7. The weather change. I grew up in Colorado and went to school in Portland, Or. The climate change and winter drizzle for 6 months with little sun took me 4 years to adjust to.

Just my .02 cents worth.
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Re: Relocation?

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:19 pm

I made a move similar to this one ten years ago.

Went to Phoenix, bought a really nice house in Chandler that was ridiculously priced (as all homes in Phoenix area at the time were 'old' after five years.

Nice pool, cul-de-sac, palm, orange and grapefruit trees in the yard, nice open floor plan. Loved the job, the weather, the house, etc.

Work-wise it's nice because you can re-make yourself. You're not the office clown or hardass. You get a new chance to apply what you've learned and become whomever you want in a professional manner.

We were back in a year.

No support system. No friends or relatives, everyone there was from somewhere else and they were transients like us who figured you or they would be gone at some point soon so why bother with the neighborly stuff. My wife and I couldn't go get dinner or see a flick without the kids and it wasn't for lack of trying to get acclimated somewhere new.

Her parents couldn't see the grandkids, my mom was apoplectic, etc.

I'm not advising you not to do it. Everyone's situation is different. I'm saying just don't minimize the support of friends and family in the equation and don't underestimate the stress it puts on your wife and your kids. My oldest was five at the time and started getting stomach aches and headaches in part because of the stress, etc.

It's hardest on the people who don't have 10-12 hours per day where they are occupied at work.

I'll go back to that area when I'm less directly responsible for the kids. Of course, I say that now and by that time it'll probably be my wife who is the grandmother that goes nuts not seeing her grandchildren.

Good luck making the decision. They don't get much bigger.
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Re: Relocation?

Unread postby exiledbuckeye » Sat Feb 06, 2010 7:01 pm

I've moved away twice now and I really enjoy it, but I've got nothing tying me down in Ohio - parents travel to me when they want to see me, etc. I lived in Seattle for about a year.

Bremerton is ri-goddamn-diculosly beautiful. If the job's in Bremerton, you wouldn't have to take a ferry into Seattle (about a hour) so that's a bonus. You'd be on the Olympic Peninsula and within a short drive of Olympic National Park, which is amazing.

It does drizzle a lot there, but hard rain is very rare. Winter in Seattle is about 40 degrees and rainy. It's hot there when it gets to be 75. I really appreciated the temperate climate. If you like the outdoors at all, you will be in heaven there.

No state income tax in WA, but the sales tax approaches 10%.

Plus, you get to live with these views:
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Re: Relocation?

Unread postby Ziner » Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:11 pm

If you had no kids it would be a slam dunk to go IMO. I have moved around, but I have no kids so it is completely different situation. That said my Aunt and Uncle live in Bremerton, he was in the Navy and they moved all around, Hawaii, San Diego, Columbus, DC, Omaha, and I am sure more. They had houses everywhere they lived, they kept the house in Bremerton. Even after moves to DC and Omaha, they rented it out because they knew that is where they wanted to end up. They absolutely love it.

I think the biggest things I would consider is the likelihood (financial/vacation time) that you will be able to fly home often enough to see the family and their propensity and financial ability to get out to see you. I live in CO and a big part of me being comfortable moving out here was that I know my family likes to travel and I have the means to get home. Since we moved out here in April I have been home 2 times and they have travelled out here 3 times. So it is significantly easier on me. I would think about how your situation would work

Finally, IMO you wont regret going. You may regret not going. Seattle is a great city and they have a great outdoor scene. That is why a lot of people live there. If that lifestyle doesnt seem interesting to you (hiking, skiing, etc) then perhaps the pros dont weigh the cons, but if you think you would like taking it up (and I am sure your kids would love it) then definetely let that be a factor in your final decision

Just my 2 cents.
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Re: Relocation?

Unread postby mistero » Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:16 pm

A million thanks for the sounding board here.

Fact is I love rainy, cloudy weather. It would be ideal for me. I lived in San Diego for a year when I was in the Navy. Couldn't stand the weather. 78 and sunny every day is not me, strange as it sounds.

Job would in Bremerton, can you give me any advice about where to look for housing? I've seen some pretty decent properties just south of Tacoma. Is that too far to commute? I commute about 45 minutes now, which is cool.
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Re: Relocation?

Unread postby Ziner » Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:20 pm

Have you considered flying out the entire family or at least your wife to spend an long weekend there to get a feel, drive around, and just do some general fact finding trip? Might be a bit pricey, but if your wife hasnt been to Seattle much it would be worth it to go before you decide IMO.
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Re: Relocation?

Unread postby mistero » Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:26 pm

I'm not sure I'll have the luxury of making a scouting trip. I'll probably fly down there for an interview once I get past (if I get past) the phone interviews.

I nearly left my job about 6 months ago and got a huge raise to convince me to stay. So if I leave now it will totally burn my bridges. In other words, if my boss senses I sniffing around another job he'll go nuclear.

I think I'll only have one 2 day trip out there under the radar to make my decision.
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Re: Relocation?

Unread postby exiledbuckeye » Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:53 pm

mistero, the bad part about living in Tacoma or south is that you'd have to cross the Tacoma Narrows bridge each day to get to work, and it can be a total nightmare. The wind through the narrows is unreal. You might have seen old video from the 50s or so where a bridge is twisting and rolling, and just collapses. That was the old narrows bridge. Obviously they've replaced it, but it can still get hairy. And, it's a toll bridge. I think it's $4 or $5 each way.

Check out Kingston, Poulsbo, Port Orchard, Gig Harbor, and obviously Bremerton itself.
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Re: Relocation?

Unread postby Guest » Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:03 am

mistero wrote:

The wife is more interested than I am,as a chance to have a fresh start. She has persistant drama from her mother and friends.
She would move tomorrow.



Don't underestimate that part. Sometimes that can be the best reason to pull the trigger.

I had to relocate back in the 80s due to the bad economy in the Mansfield area, and never found a good enough reason to move back up.

So now 25 years later, my wife and I may be facing the same situation as your wife...wanting to get away from more drama than we need right now in our lives. And we are definitely considering it, even though there are no solid offers at this point.
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Re: Relocation?

Unread postby mistero » Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:09 am

Still looking south of Bremerton, in the Shelton area.

Just using google maps and realtor.com. My god is that some beautiful country. New houses in the 185,000 range about 50 minutes away from Bremerton.
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Re: Relocation?

Unread postby FUDU » Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:53 am

mistero wrote:Fact is I love rainy, cloudy weather. It would be ideal for me.
So tell us again why you're thinking of moving away from NEO?
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Re: Relocation?

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:10 am

Fresh salmon and halibut all year, who can beat that? Hell, I'd do it just for the fishing/ hiking stuff.
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Re: Relocation?

Unread postby mistero » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:39 pm

Ok, here's the update.

I got a call from the recruiter about 30 min. before my phone interview with the owner. He says he just wants to be clear on the numbers. The salary he quoted me is really, salary plus health beni costs, plus xmas bonus, plus cell phone/meals.travel expenses/plus 401k matches...ect ect. Basically the offer would be 30 grand less.

I let him know thanks but no thanks. My minimum numbers were x for salary and y for bonus. Just like we discussed.
And good luck and good wishes.

He calls my cell phone twice and leaves voice mails. The owner calls me. He sends me a new proposal. Still way short of what I'm looking for.

The kicker is he says I'll only have to work 25-30 hours. Like I want to move across country and give up a fulltime job for a part time job.

Really? Really? I'd rather hear he wants me to work 50-60 hours.

So I'm out unless they come back with some real numbers. Christ I feel like Cribbs!
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Re: Relocation?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:24 pm

mistero wrote:Ok, here's the update.

I got a call from the recruiter about 30 min. before my phone interview with the owner. He says he just wants to be clear on the numbers. The salary he quoted me is really, salary plus health beni costs, plus xmas bonus, plus cell phone/meals.travel expenses/plus 401k matches...ect ect. Basically the offer would be 30 grand less.

I let him know thanks but no thanks. My minimum numbers were x for salary and y for bonus. Just like we discussed.
And good luck and good wishes.

He calls my cell phone twice and leaves voice mails. The owner calls me. He sends me a new proposal. Still way short of what I'm looking for.

The kicker is he says I'll only have to work 25-30 hours. Like I want to move across country and give up a fulltime job for a part time job.

Really? Really? I'd rather hear he wants me to work 50-60 hours.

So I'm out unless they come back with some real numbers. Christ I feel like Cribbs!


How did they get your CV? Monster? I think you have a bit of a grievance.

Extremely unprofessional on their part. A big red flag. Sucks to get yourself and the family all pumped for something then have it fall through.
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Re: Relocation?

Unread postby mistero » Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:29 pm

Yes, it was Monster..I would assume. Only one I'm on.

They came back with 3 more small bumbs. Final offer now on the table. I talked to the owner for an hour. Like the guy. Love the job as it's described to me.

The recruiters promise everything. The owner was very clear on what was in the offer.
I'm sure I know this offer is the last one.

They came way up on the base salary and will give me a full 40-50 hour workload, which will add a good deal of overtime/week end bonus pay.

But the relocation bonus was all the recruiters imagination. It went from 30k to now only 4 weeks paid in an extended stay holiday inn when I get there.
Will make it hard to sell a house and bridge to a new house with out that 30K.

I have 2 days to sleep on it but thinking about playing it safe and staying put.
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Re: Relocation?

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:08 pm

mistero wrote:I have 2 days to sleep on it but thinking about playing it safe and staying put, but with each shovel load of snow I think harder and harder.


Fixed.
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Re: Relocation?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:25 pm

mistero wrote:Yes, it was Monster..I would assume. Only one I'm on.

They came back with 3 more small bumbs. Final offer now on the table. I talked to the owner for an hour. Like the guy. Love the job as it's described to me.

The recruiters promise everything. The owner was very clear on what was in the offer.
I'm sure I know this offer is the last one.

They came way up on the base salary and will give me a full 40-50 hour workload, which will add a good deal of overtime/week end bonus pay.

But the relocation bonus was all the recruiters imagination. It went from 30k to now only 4 weeks paid in an extended stay holiday inn when I get there.
Will make it hard to sell a house and bridge to a new house with out that 30K.

I have 2 days to sleep on it but thinking about playing it safe and staying put.


Don't know your local housing situation. Maybe talk to an agent and get their opinion and see how fast/when it would sell? February is a shit time to sell a house. Any way you would consider leaving the fam behind for a couple of months - get to the new job and use up the Holiday Inn $$ while you try and sell your old house? Good luck.
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Re: Relocation?

Unread postby travisfitzwater » Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:49 pm

mistero wrote:I heard message boards offer the best advice so here it is.

I have a job offer for about 10k more a year plus a 20k signing bonus to move to Seattle and work for a private firm. Full beni's and chance for advancement . I work for a big hospital now and have a very safe position with zero chance for advancement...(but also very high job security,pension , and beni's).

I would have to sell the house ,probably just break even, and buy a new house. Plus relocate the kids to new schools, new friends, ect.

The weather and life style looks very appealing . The job is actually in Bremerton on the Puget sound accross from Seattle. It looks pretty small town-ish , nice. The cost of living is 4 percent lower than Cleveland, for what ever that's worth.

I'm leaning 60/40 against taking it.

Can anyone give me a push either way? :thumb up: :thumbdown:


These are my thoughts, FWIW:

1. Seattle is one of the coolest places, IMO. My wife and I have been there a couple times, no shortage of cool things to do.
2. Bremerton is a long butt way away from Seattle.
3. We stayed in Bremerton the last time we were there with my cousin who's in the Navy. There are a lot of military folks there, which isn't bad. He lived in a somewhat rough neighborhood, so based on personal experience, Bremerton wasn't that impressive. It's a nice little town, but I wouldn't pick it as the place to live. If you could get SouthWest of Bremerton and only have a 30 minute drive it would be well worth it.
4. You're oh so very close to the West Coast which my wife and I agree is one of the most beautiful parts of the U.S., the Pacific NW. Just unbelievable beauty and hiking opportunities.
5. You're far away from the fam.

Obviously, from what you've mentioned since your first post they're going to have to overwhelm you with an offer, so, hopefully what I've said will help on some level. Good luck, my friend!
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Re: Relocation?

Unread postby jb » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:33 pm

mistero wrote:Preschool, 2nd and 4th grade.

4th grader really doesn't want to go but will be ok if he gets his own bedroom away from his little brother.

How quickly into the interview can you make rediculous demands?

I'm in such a bizarre niche job field. I should be making 22K a year bagging groceries. It's surreal sometimes the options life opens and closes for you.



very cool area. tempting. EW nailed it w/ the kids issue. Tough call broham. good luck.

One thing....

Were you born after 64, cause this whole curse thing might be related to you. Just in case, I think you should move oif you were born after 64.

never can be too careful an dthe cavs look like a lock to win it all.
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Re: Relocation?

Unread postby mistero » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:16 pm

68 JB, but I was at the Drive so that was probably me.

I'm gonna pass. My parents are 70 and 66. Just thinking if I move they may see their grandkids only a handful more times. If it was half way across the country instead of being a 5 day car ride away I would do it.

Gonna stay safe in the belly of the great Cleveland medical cyclops.
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mistero
 
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Re: Relocation?

Unread postby mistero » Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:05 pm

I turned them down on monday. Today I get a call from the recruiter with a new offer. No more money, or bonus, or anything. The offer is a pep talk. He said I'm suffering from middle class paralysis. I'm afrain to become my complete potential. I'm my own worst enemy, or so he says. He basically drops 30 minutes of psychobabble on me. I'm the best candidate the employers has ever had. I could really excell. It's a shame I'm such a chicken.

He's gonna pull the" take this job or you're a chicken card".
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