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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:25 pm

Erie Warrior wrote:I'd give it 2 or 3 days. Drop a 16 week old fetus in the woods, and well the bugs will get at it before it has time to cool off.


Erie, I can post a picture of an aborted fetus if you'd like, and you can tell me if it looks human or not.

But never mind that. Give men the right to bail on their children and I can swallow infanticide.
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby exiledbuckeye » Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:39 pm

Skating Tripods wrote:
exiledbuckeye wrote:Are you referring to the legal aspect or the medical aspect? For legal cases, it's based on generally accepted scientific evidence. I assume that medically, it is the same. It's my understanding that there is a pretty clear point where a fetus has ANY chance of survival and where it doesn't, and that is where the line is drawn. (I could be wrong on that)


Both. Scientific evidence, in this case, is not the be-all, end-all of the argument. I know those people are far smarter than me, but it is an extraordinarily unpredictable situation. Nevermind the obvious risk for infection or some sort of other complications, but a baby just simply might not make it due to underdeveloped internal organs. Not all babies follow the same blueprint in development.

Any chance of survival is the deciding line. That's absurd.


I guess I'm confused by your second paragraph. Isn't it a GOOD thing that the line for viability would be drawn most inclusively - at ANY chance of survival - instead of at something like 50% chance of survival?
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:45 pm

HermanFontenot wrote:
Erie, I can post a picture of an aborted fetus if you'd like, and you can tell me if it looks human or not.

But never mind that. Give men the right to bail on their children and I can swallow infanticide.


Not saying it isn't human (physically speaking, meaning from other humans), but what I am saying is that it can't survive on it's own, for any reasonable amount of time, and therefore is not a life. Don't tell me abortion is murder, murder implies removing life, and a fetus isn't a life. With intensive medical care and technological advancements 70-80% of fetus' die if born at 23 weeks. Those numbers change drastically with each additional week of development, and reverse is also true with each week under 23.( http://www.marchofdimes.com/professiona ... 2_1196.asp ) I'm willing to err on the side of caution and say 20 weeks. Prior to 20 weeks, it's can't survive for more than a few minutes outside of the mother. It's no more alive then any of the cells in your body.

Talk about Victorian thinking.
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:47 pm

HermanFontenot wrote:
Erie, I can post a picture of an aborted fetus if you'd like, and you can tell me if it looks human or not.

But never mind that. Give men the right to bail on their children and I can swallow infanticide.


Let's not with the fetus picture.

I had a meatball sub for lunch and i'd like to keep it my stomach.

Totally unrelated but to lazy to go to the right thread... CDT fired my ferst gun the other day at Stonewall. My brothers Glock 19 and his buddies Sig 9mm, pretty fun, soon gonna be a member of whatever group gun owners are part of... Might have even saw dem there as I did see a gentleman helping a few people's...


OT:
Good for you, that's the best way to find a gun you like, just keep trying them. The 19 is a solid CCW pistol, SiGs are fine pistols too, you're just gonna pay abit more for the name. If you're speaking of the NRA, I highly suggest not joining it. They do nothing for you other than sit on their asses and collect the fees their members pay. And you'll get a bunch of spam e-mails and junk mail. They don't have much to offer, no savings on fireams or ammo as far as I know.
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:55 pm

exiledbuckeye wrote:I guess I'm confused by your second paragraph. Isn't it a GOOD thing that the line for viability would be drawn most inclusively - at ANY chance of survival - instead of at something like 50% chance of survival?


Not for me. My stance on abortion is a bit muddled, but as a cliff notes version, for me, I'm anti almost all abortions. The only ones I'm ok with are rape, and severe concerns for the mother's well-being. Otherwise, you made your mess, you deal with it, instead of depriving an innocent life.

As for the murdering one, as far as I'm concerned, you killed two people. The likelihood of that baby going to term and living is high comparative to it dying with that 9 months. It's a matter of expected outcome in that instance.

The whole viability argument pisses me off because there's no clear-cut distinction. Therefore, I don't think it should be an accepted justification.
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:59 pm

Erie Warrior wrote:but what I am saying is that it can't survive on it's own, for any reasonable amount of time, and therefore is not a life.


Boy, I hope no one on a respirator is reading this thread.
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:20 pm

Not for me. My stance on abortion is a bit muddled, but as a cliff notes version, for me, I'm anti almost all abortions. The only ones I'm ok with are rape, and severe concerns for the mother's well-being. Otherwise, you made your mess, you deal with it, instead of depriving an innocent life.


And what right do you have to force someone to have a baby that isn't yours? You're not going to help feed, care for, or raise it.

Let's be honest, you only care about the baby till it's in the world. Then it's someone elses problem.
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby Ziner » Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:31 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
Not for me. My stance on abortion is a bit muddled, but as a cliff notes version, for me, I'm anti almost all abortions. The only ones I'm ok with are rape, and severe concerns for the mother's well-being. Otherwise, you made your mess, you deal with it, instead of depriving an innocent life.


And what right do you have to force someone to have a baby that isn't yours? You're not going to help feed, care for, or raise it.

Let's be honest, you only care about the baby till it's in the world. Then it's someone elses problem.


See there is the problem. Women have the right to choose, they have the right to not have sex, use some sort of birth control or use plan B as a last resort. In a perfect world that would be the woman's right to choose. But in reality you are right CDT and that is why I can't really fully commit to either side of the abortion debate. The pragmatist in me steps in and agrees with you, what are we/they/her going to do when that baby isn't taken care of. If that woman isn't responsible enough not to get pregnant then they most likely aren't responsible enough to take care of the baby. Which leads me back to this ad, hopefully it covers the availability of adoption because to me that is the best solution out there. People can say what they want but abortion is murder of a future baby, no way around it. However to me this is a very difficult issue. Ideology or pragmatism, which wins? Both have very valid points.
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby exiledbuckeye » Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:37 pm

Ziner wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
Not for me. My stance on abortion is a bit muddled, but as a cliff notes version, for me, I'm anti almost all abortions. The only ones I'm ok with are rape, and severe concerns for the mother's well-being. Otherwise, you made your mess, you deal with it, instead of depriving an innocent life.


And what right do you have to force someone to have a baby that isn't yours? You're not going to help feed, care for, or raise it.

Let's be honest, you only care about the baby till it's in the world. Then it's someone elses problem.


See there is the problem. Women have the right to choose, they have the right to not have sex, use some sort of birth control or use plan B as a last resort. In a perfect world that would be the woman's right to choose. But in reality you are right CDT and that is why I can't really fully commit to either side of the abortion debate. The pragmatist in me steps in and agrees with you, what are we/they/her going to do when that baby isn't taken care of. If that woman isn't responsible enough not to get pregnant then they most likely aren't responsible enough to take care of the baby. Which leads me back to this ad, hopefully it covers the availability of adoption because to me that is the best solution out there. People can say what they want but abortion is murder of a future baby, no way around it. However to me this is a very difficult issue. Ideology or pragmatism, which wins? Both have very valid points.


And this is where I fall, as well. The pragmatist wins. There are hundreds of thousands of children in this country in foster care, yet tens of thousands (or more) couples adopting children from other countries because they want infants, or they only want babies that look like them, etc.

Also, just to play devil's advocate (again), if we are going the "abortion is murder of a future life" route...again, where do you draw the line? Should masturbation be illegal?

Edit: I know I'm stirring the pot here. But that's an actual hypothetical my constitutional law professor had for the class. The debate is...interesting. Law school taught me that "drawing the line" on anything is never as easy as it seems.
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby Ziner » Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:51 pm

exiledbuckeye wrote:And this is where I fall, as well. The pragmatist wins. There are hundreds of thousands of children in this country in foster care, yet tens of thousands (or more) couples adopting children from other countries because they want infants, or they only want babies that look like them, etc.


Sad isnt it? But once again reality... hear me out potentially awful analogy upcoming... Adopting a grown child is like getting a dog from a pound in a way, it has most likely already developed a personality as well as other attitudes that could make intergration in to a family very difficult. It is a very noble thing to do to go get your dog from the pound, but there is also a higher probability that the dog can never get house trained, chews your shit and is aggressive. You get a puppy you foster and nurture it from the very beginning and have a lot more control over the child. Not saying it isnt a good thing to get a dog from a pound, but you can see the incentive to start from scratch. I know a lady who did take in a middle school aged foster child. It has been very taxing on her and she was never really able to shape the kid as he has been in and out of juv-e.

exiledbuckeye wrote:Also, just to play devil's advocate (again), if we are going the "abortion is murder of a future life" route...again, where do you draw the line? Should masturbation be illegal?


No, obviously not, we already have plenty of idiots on these boards, imagine if masturbation was illegal. On a serious note no, to me life starts at conception. But here is where JB can call me a hypocrite and be correct, I am not completely against abortion because of the reasons above. So yeah I am essentially saying in some cases I agree with the murdering of a baby... demented isnt it? However in the land of Ziner it would be preferable if the mother would carry it full term and give it to a family that would love to take care of it. This is why I constantly contemplate my position on it, because it isnt black and white to me. Not quite sure how it is to others.
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby exiledbuckeye » Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:58 pm

Ziner wrote:No, obviously not, we already have plenty of idiots on these boards, imagine if masturbation was illegal. On a serious note no, to me life starts at conception. But here is where JB can call me a hypocrite and be correct, I am not completely against abortion because of the reasons above. So yeah I am essentially saying in some cases I agree with the murdering of a baby... demented isnt it? However in the land of Ziner it would be preferable if the mother would carry it full term and give it to a family that would love to take care of it. This is why I constantly contemplate my position on it, because it isnt black and white to me. Not quite sure how it is to others.


I agree with you, as I said above. But in reality my position is that abortion is legal in this country, it's here to stay, and all we can do is encourage it to be rare and put limitations on it. There's nothing else that can be done, no matter how much political posturing and preaching occurs.
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby Orenthal » Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:30 pm

exiledbuckeye wrote:
Ziner wrote:No, obviously not, we already have plenty of idiots on these boards, imagine if masturbation was illegal. On a serious note no, to me life starts at conception. But here is where JB can call me a hypocrite and be correct, I am not completely against abortion because of the reasons above. So yeah I am essentially saying in some cases I agree with the murdering of a baby... demented isnt it? However in the land of Ziner it would be preferable if the mother would carry it full term and give it to a family that would love to take care of it. This is why I constantly contemplate my position on it, because it isnt black and white to me. Not quite sure how it is to others.


I agree with you, as I said above. But in reality my position is that abortion is legal in this country, it's here to stay, and all we can do is encourage it to be rare and put limitations on it. There's nothing else that can be done, no matter how much political posturing and preaching occurs.


However that legality wasn't always the case, and while the chances of that decision every being overturned is remote, I wonder how that would change the debate and your above statement. I was born almost a decade after that decision so don't really have the frame of reference. My stance on abortion is just about identical to Tripods...

The more time that elapses leads to an exponential decline in my willingness to accept abortion as an option even in those rare cases where I can see it as being acceptable. With countless options to avoid becoming pregnant in the first place I see little reason that abortions should take place. Circle back to exiled's quote, and the only thing people on my side of the debate can do is try and persuade. Crazy people killing doctors is :thud:
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:24 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
Not for me. My stance on abortion is a bit muddled, but as a cliff notes version, for me, I'm anti almost all abortions. The only ones I'm ok with are rape, and severe concerns for the mother's well-being. Otherwise, you made your mess, you deal with it, instead of depriving an innocent life.


And what right do you have to force someone to have a baby that isn't yours? You're not going to help feed, care for, or raise it.

Let's be honest, you only care about the baby till it's in the world. Then it's someone elses problem.


I'm not forcing anybody to do anything. They made their choices and they have to live with them. If they want to have an abortion, that's none of my business. Honestly, it doesn't matter to me either way if there's legislation passed to make them illegal. People will do what they want anyway, whether it breaks a law or it doesn't.

I was telling you my personal stance. Not creating an agenda, not complaining about current legislation. I just laugh at the hypocrisy of abortions being tolerable by half the population (or so), and then double murder for killing a pregnant woman.

People make mistakes, fine. You want to use that argument, go ahead. But if someone gets charged 20 years for vehicular manslaughter for that mistake, and someone else can go ahead and kill a baby for their mistake, explain that to me.
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:25 pm

exiledbuckeye wrote: Should masturbation be illegal?

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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:34 pm

People make mistakes, fine. You want to use that argument, go ahead. But if someone gets charged 20 years for vehicular manslaughter for that mistake, and someone else can go ahead and kill a baby for their mistake, explain that to me.


You really don't see the difference?

It's a criminal issue vs a privacy issue.

Killing someone with your car makes you a danger to the public.

Having an abortion does not.
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby aoxo1 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:38 pm

Skating Tripods wrote:Not for me. My stance on abortion is a bit muddled, but as a cliff notes version, for me, I'm anti almost all abortions. The only ones I'm ok with are rape

This is an incoherent position. If you believe abortions should be illegal because a fetus counts as a person, you have to believe that they should be illegal even in cases of rape. After all, that person isn't any less of a person because of how it was conceived. You certainly don't feel that a 3 year old conceived in that manner is not a person.
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:50 pm

aoxo1 wrote:This is an incoherent position. If you believe abortions should be illegal because a fetus counts as a person, you have to believe that they should be illegal even in cases of rape.


I actually agree with this. But at the same time, I don't think this view is any less muddled than the arbitrary line pro-choice folks draw between when a fetus isn't a person and when it is. As far as I'm concerned, "choice" should extend all the way to the third trimester. If it's unwanted it's unwanted, whether it's the first month or the ninth.

But again, I'm okay with infanticide as long as men have the choice to bail on child support on a whim. My main concern isn't with children, who I care about not at all- it's with equalizing gender rights in this country. It's simply unjust that women have 007 clearance when it comes to children but men have to be chained to them for eighteen years to the tune of hundreds of thousands of hard-earned dollars or more.

Actually, to be precise men aren't chained to the children: they're chained to the women, since, after all, "child-support" consists of no-strings-attached cash payments to women, who can spend it on clothes or shoes if they want. Either way it's a travesty. Indentured servitude is indentured servitude regardless of how you sugar-coat it.
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby pup » Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:43 pm

You don't want to be on the hook for supporting a child, keep it in your god damn pants.

Equal rights for men in this country. Almost some of your best work.
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:51 pm

Pup wrote:You don't want to be on the hook for supporting a child, keep it in your god damn pants.

Equal rights for men in this country. Almost some of your best work.


So pregnancy is always on the man?
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby pup » Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:54 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
Pup wrote:You don't want to be on the hook for supporting a child, keep it in your god damn pants.

Equal rights for men in this country. Almost some of your best work.


So pregnancy is always on the man?


On the man? Nope.

Is abortion always on the women?
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:59 pm

Pup wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
Pup wrote:You don't want to be on the hook for supporting a child, keep it in your god damn pants.

Equal rights for men in this country. Almost some of your best work.


So pregnancy is always on the man?


On the man? Nope.

Is abortion always on the women?


Absolutely not. I'm sure men have pressured women to have abortions.
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:04 pm

Pup wrote:You don't want to be on the hook for supporting a child, keep it in your god damn pants.

Equal rights for men in this country. Almost some of your best work.


You don't want to be on the hook for carrying a child, keep them legs closed, honey.

See how that works?

You doubt me, Pup? Check up on who gets the college admissions. Check up on who makes up the bulk of the prison population. Check up on who does the bulk of the consumer spending- who controls the money. Check up on who accounts for the majority of violent crime victims. Check up on who accounts for the overwhelming majority of lost jobs during this recession. Check up on the difference in life expectancy. Check up on how much gets spent on breast cancer research versus prostate cancer research. Check up on who does the dangerous shit jobs in this society versus who does the cushy paper-pushing bullshit.

Check up on who gets the choice when it comes to children and who takes the command.

Hell, I'll give you the numbers if you want them. That won't be any problem at all. You ought to know better than to think I would just shoot from the hip without some backup.
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby pup » Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:16 pm

HermanFontenot wrote:
Pup wrote:You don't want to be on the hook for supporting a child, keep it in your god damn pants.

Equal rights for men in this country. Almost some of your best work.


You don't want to be on the hook for carrying a child, keep them legs closed, honey.

See how that works?

You doubt me, Pup? Check up on who gets the college admissions. Check up on who makes up the bulk of the prison population. Check up on who does the bulk of the consumer spending- who controls the money. Check up on who accounts for the majority of violent crime victims. Check up on who accounts for the overwhelming majority of lost jobs during this recession. Check up on the difference in life expectancy. Check up on how much gets spent on breast cancer research versus prostate cancer research. Check up on who does the dangerous shit jobs in this society versus who does the cushy paper-pushing bullshit.

Check up on who gets the choice when it comes to children and who takes the command.

Hell, I'll give you the numbers if you want them. That won't be any problem at all. You ought to know better than to think I would just shoot from the hip without some backup.


I got nothing for ya Herm. Like I said, it is ALMOST your best work.

War women doing heavy labor!

When 1 man convinces millions of other men to give up three days and walk to raise money for prostate cancer research, we can talk.

Life expectancy? Equal Rights? You mean someone is discriminating against men allowing women to live longer?

Cushy paper pushing jobs? You mean other than sportswriters?
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:19 pm

Pup wrote:I got nothing for ya Herm.


See now, that's all you had to say.
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby leadpipe » Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:25 am

aoxo1 wrote:
Skating Tripods wrote:Not for me. My stance on abortion is a bit muddled, but as a cliff notes version, for me, I'm anti almost all abortions. The only ones I'm ok with are rape

This is an incoherent position. If you believe abortions should be illegal because a fetus counts as a person, you have to believe that they should be illegal even in cases of rape. After all, that person isn't any less of a person because of how it was conceived. You certainly don't feel that a 3 year old conceived in that manner is not a person.


I think this is a case though where the mother's choice absolutely matters.

I think it's dangerous to assume that said mother is capable of not having that child represent a symbol of the single worst moment of their life. It's dangerous to assume said woman wants any child at all. A victim of a rape deserves the choice ILO.

We could argue the point, but I certainly don't think it's an incoherent position. Too many factors beyond the scope of "at what point does life begin" abortion debate.
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby jb » Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:03 am

Timmy is on the dais at the national prayer breakfast.
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby jb » Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:08 am

HermanFontenot wrote:
Pup wrote:You don't want to be on the hook for supporting a child, keep it in your god damn pants.

Equal rights for men in this country. Almost some of your best work.


You don't want to be on the hook for carrying a child, keep them legs closed, honey.

See how that works?

You doubt me, Pup? Check up on who gets the college admissions.



LOL.

If it wren't for the new male affirmative action it'd be worse. Including young white men. Young women are slaying them in HS, Jesse. Not so much in test scores, but day-to-day and involvement-wise. You have a good nucleus of high achieving young men, but the over 50% are now more like stars on Jersey Shore and Jerry.

Thug and redneck lifestyle and the desire to be stupid is poaching too many young men.

Whatever advantage women have, they earned here.


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/23/opinion/23britz.html


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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:09 am

JB wrote:Timmy is on the dais at the national prayer breakfast.

I figured he'd be on the cross.
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby jb » Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:12 am

Skating Tripods wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
Not for me. My stance on abortion is a bit muddled, but as a cliff notes version, for me, I'm anti almost all abortions. The only ones I'm ok with are rape, and severe concerns for the mother's well-being. Otherwise, you made your mess, you deal with it, instead of depriving an innocent life.


And what right do you have to force someone to have a baby that isn't yours? You're not going to help feed, care for, or raise it.

Let's be honest, you only care about the baby till it's in the world. Then it's someone elses problem.


I'm not forcing anybody to do anything. They made their choices and they have to live with them. If they want to have an abortion, that's none of my business. Honestly, it doesn't matter to me either way if there's legislation passed to make them illegal. People will do what they want anyway, whether it breaks a law or it doesn't.

I was telling you my personal stance. Not creating an agenda, not complaining about current legislation. I just laugh at the hypocrisy of abortions being tolerable by half the population (or so), and then double murder for killing a pregnant woman.

People make mistakes, fine. You want to use that argument, go ahead. But if someone gets charged 20 years for vehicular manslaughter for that mistake, and someone else can go ahead and kill a baby for their mistake, explain that to me.


I agree with you Adam.

What I do think is that there hasn't been enough emphasis on hard, cold science to rationalize this discussion. Too much dogma, too much screaming frames the argument (not debate).

A collection of cells is noit a baby, but at some point that happens. I'd like to see TONS of research prove when that happens. Not what I read frokm whack jobs on either side.

An acorn is not an oak, but at some point it turns the corner.
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby leadpipe » Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:50 am

JB wrote:
Skating Tripods wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
Not for me. My stance on abortion is a bit muddled, but as a cliff notes version, for me, I'm anti almost all abortions. The only ones I'm ok with are rape, and severe concerns for the mother's well-being. Otherwise, you made your mess, you deal with it, instead of depriving an innocent life.


And what right do you have to force someone to have a baby that isn't yours? You're not going to help feed, care for, or raise it.

Let's be honest, you only care about the baby till it's in the world. Then it's someone elses problem.


I'm not forcing anybody to do anything. They made their choices and they have to live with them. If they want to have an abortion, that's none of my business. Honestly, it doesn't matter to me either way if there's legislation passed to make them illegal. People will do what they want anyway, whether it breaks a law or it doesn't.

I was telling you my personal stance. Not creating an agenda, not complaining about current legislation. I just laugh at the hypocrisy of abortions being tolerable by half the population (or so), and then double murder for killing a pregnant woman.

People make mistakes, fine. You want to use that argument, go ahead. But if someone gets charged 20 years for vehicular manslaughter for that mistake, and someone else can go ahead and kill a baby for their mistake, explain that to me.


I agree with you Adam.

What I do think is that there hasn't been enough emphasis on hard, cold science to rationalize this discussion. Too much dogma, too much screaming frames the argument (not debate).

A collection of cells is noit a baby, but at some point that happens. I'd like to see TONS of research prove when that happens. Not what I read frokm whack jobs on either side.

An acorn is not an oak, but at some point it turns the corner.


Yeah, JB's on to the point here.

Personally, I'm unsure as to the accuracy of the information I receive as to when a human is considered viable. Can't get an unbiased report.

Kinda like with politics.
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby fundamentals » Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:58 am

Erie Warrior wrote:
JB wrote:Timmy is on the dais at the national prayer breakfast.

I figured he'd be on the cross.


Wow. :thumbdown: Once again, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But here's an athlete who makes it no secret about his Christian beliefs, and the guy is chastised for doing so by many in the country. If he worshipped the Devil, he would have his own reality tv show right now.
"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

"We had a great time together."
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:22 am

Lead Pipe wrote: Personally, I'm unsure as to the accuracy of the information I receive as to when a human is considered viable. Can't get an unbiased report.


Here's some pretty good numbers from the March of Dimes
http://www.marchofdimes.com/professiona ... 2_1196.asp

The earliest a child was born, and survived, that I could find was 22 weeks. 20 weeks seems to be a good number. That's 5 months. If you choose to have an abortion, 5 months should be long enough to reach that decision.

But here's an athlete who makes it no secret about his Christian beliefs, and the guy is chastised for doing so by many in the country.


Just breaking balls, I got no beef with him, other than I'm sick to death of hearing about it.
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:32 am

Someone at some point told me Tebow's Christian sect is anti Catholic. Does anyone know if this is true, or just bullshit? No ax to grind, just curious.
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:39 am

Young women are slaying them in HS, Jesse. Not so much in test scores, but day-to-day and involvement-wise.


If that's the case, it has to have a cultural and/or socio-political basis, JB. Because girls aren't smarter than boys. Both ends of the intelligence bell-curve, from geniuses to mongoloids, are dominated by males. Women are predominant in the great middle.

The only explanation is that girls are favored at the primary and secondary school level. Seeing as the teachers' unions are dominated by leftist women, that shouldn't be so hard to believe.

If I had a boy I would be extremely reluctant to do anything but home-school him, I can tell you that much.

Females, particularly white females, are absolutely and without question the privileged caste in this society. I'm not blaming women or girls for this state of affairs. I blame the men who make the laws and the men who enforce them- to a large extent, social-conservative men infected with misguided chivalry.

I don't blame women because I know they don't have any real power. Everything they've "earned" has been handed to them by men. And if men woke up tomorrow and decided they didn't want women to be "liberated" any more, the reversal would take about an hour. Look at what happened in Iran in 1979.

Thug and redneck lifestyle and the desire to be stupid is poaching too many young men.


Well what the fuck else is there, JB?

Want to make a blue-collar living? Sorry, those jobs are long gone. Even the white-collar IT jobs are being filled by cheap immigrants.

Good provider to the wife and kids? Sorry homey, sistas are doin' it for themselves. They aren't helpmates any longer- they're competitors.

Get married and have a family? You got to be crazy in this age of no-fault divorce- the vast majority of which are filed by women. Having a family isn't a goal to strive for, it's an extremely risky proposition.

Role models? Well, daddy ain't at home and have you seen the way men are portrayed in the popular media?

Damn, JB, thug or arrested-development case are the only halfway-intelligent options for boys in this day and age.

(BTW, in case you're wondering, I love my mom, am surrounded by great women who are married to/engaged to my peeps, and every failed relationship in my past is on me. This isn't a personal thing.)
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby fundamentals » Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:41 am

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Someone at some point told me Tebow's Christian sect is anti Catholic. Does anyone know if this is true, or just bullshit? No ax to grind, just curious.


It wouldn't surprise me if that is a true statement.
"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

"We had a great time together."
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby TOTribeFan » Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:05 pm

I can't believe the mileage this is getting. At this point, they don't even need to run the ad. But I'll watch, just to see if he's gonna cry...
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby TOTribeFan » Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:07 pm

Is it true that Urban Meyer was going to retire for health reasons, and then Tim Tebow healed him?
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby exiledbuckeye » Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:26 pm

Last night on "The Daily Show," Jon Stewart took on a topic that’s been much in the news lately: the increase of high-earning women in the workforce and their threat, or perceived threat, to red-blooded American males. "As a country we’ve made enormous strides,” Stewart warned, "but there are still groups that are suffering…men."


Video:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-f ... inequality
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby jb » Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:33 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
Pup wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
Pup wrote:You don't want to be on the hook for supporting a child, keep it in your god damn pants.

Equal rights for men in this country. Almost some of your best work.


So pregnancy is always on the man?


On the man? Nope.

Is abortion always on the women?


Absolutely not. I'm sure men have pressured women to have abortions.



"Nuh uh."

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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby jb » Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:35 pm

HermanFontenot wrote:
Young women are slaying them in HS, Jesse. Not so much in test scores, but day-to-day and involvement-wise.


If that's the case, it has to have a cultural and/or socio-political basis, JB. Because girls aren't smarter than boys. Both ends of the intelligence bell-curve, from geniuses to mongoloids, are dominated by males. Women are predominant in the great middle.

The only explanation is that girls are favored at the primary and secondary school level. Seeing as the teachers' unions are dominated by leftist women, that shouldn't be so hard to believe.

If I had a boy I would be extremely reluctant to do anything but home-school him, I can tell you that much.

Females, particularly white females, are absolutely and without question the privileged caste in this society. I'm not blaming women or girls for this state of affairs. I blame the men who make the laws and the men who enforce them- to a large extent, social-conservative men infected with misguided chivalry.

I don't blame women because I know they don't have any real power. Everything they've "earned" has been handed to them by men. And if men woke up tomorrow and decided they didn't want women to be "liberated" any more, the reversal would take about an hour. Look at what happened in Iran in 1979.

Thug and redneck lifestyle and the desire to be stupid is poaching too many young men.


Well what the fuck else is there, JB?

Want to make a blue-collar living? Sorry, those jobs are long gone. Even the white-collar IT jobs are being filled by cheap immigrants.

Good provider to the wife and kids? Sorry homey, sistas are doin' it for themselves. They aren't helpmates any longer- they're competitors.

Get married and have a family? You got to be crazy in this age of no-fault divorce- the vast majority of which are filed by women. Having a family isn't a goal to strive for, it's an extremely risky proposition.

Role models? Well, daddy ain't at home and have you seen the way men are portrayed in the popular media?

Damn, JB, thug or arrested-development case are the only halfway-intelligent options for boys in this day and age.

(BTW, in case you're wondering, I love my mom, am surrounded by great women who are married to/engaged to my peeps, and every failed relationship in my past is on me. This isn't a personal thing.)



You gotta be kiddin' me.

You could always read, give a shit, go to college and be successful.

But fuck that. Gimme another $ 100 ugly ass Ed Hardy or affliction tshirt so I can look like a Jersey Shore fucktard, be 26 getting high living in Mom's basement thinking abouit how to trick out my Dodge Neon next.

A loser is a loser..
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby Ziner » Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:39 pm

JB wrote:
But fuck that. Gimme another $ 100 ugly ass Ed Hardy or affliction tshirt so I can look like a Jersey Shore fucktard, be 26 getting high living in Mom's basement thinking abouit how to trick out my Dodge Neon next.


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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby jb » Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:43 pm

Ziner wrote:
JB wrote:
But fuck that. Gimme another $ 100 ugly ass Ed Hardy or affliction tshirt so I can look like a Jersey Shore fucktard, be 26 getting high living in Mom's basement thinking abouit how to trick out my Dodge Neon next.


Hata



I sound like a republican, huh?

I look at fucktards in affliction and stupid lids and scupted facial hair like Afreican-American men look at idiots with they pants on the ground.

Fuckin little boys embarrass me as a man.
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby Ziner » Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:46 pm

JB wrote:
Ziner wrote:
JB wrote:
But fuck that. Gimme another $ 100 ugly ass Ed Hardy or affliction tshirt so I can look like a Jersey Shore fucktard, be 26 getting high living in Mom's basement thinking abouit how to trick out my Dodge Neon next.


Hata



I sound like a republican, huh?

I look at fucktards in affliction and stupid lids and scupted facial hair like Afreican-American men look at idiots with they pants on the ground.

Fuckin little boys embarrass me as a man.


I was only saying that because you had to go pulling The Situation and Pauly D in to this. Leave them out of this, you know you love them. But yeah, Ed Hardy is gay and retarded... are we allowed to carry this over to this thread?


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkeAzqhlkNk&feature=related[/youtube]
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby Zé Apelido » Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:48 am

I prefer abortions to be as low as possible (and it has been decreasing for a while).

But otherwise, an abortion of a 10 wk fetus is probably at best no different than killing a low level animal. Whatever.
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby jfiling » Sun Feb 07, 2010 7:49 pm

Wow, that ad was SO FUCKING CONTROVERSIAL! I WANT TO KILL AN ABORTIONIST NOW!

Christ on a crutch, what a fucking manufactured controversy that was. And I'm a guy who thinks James Dobson needs to die painfully for being such a moralistic piece of shit.
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby Zé Apelido » Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:23 pm

yeah, it was quite good actually.
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby Guest » Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:43 pm

Yep...much ado about nothing.
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby Rat_Tail » Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:05 am

Did anyone else think this years commercials were lame?

Except for Betty White and the Doritos bark collar. PETA probably loved that one.
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby Triple-S » Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:14 pm

Auctually I felt the commercial auctually made Tebow more likeable to me then through his 4 years of football at Florida.

If that's possible?

And I myself have no opinion on abortion one way or the other.
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Re: Teabow ad

Unread postby Spin » Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:24 am

OK, but who's to say when a baby is viable? As far as I know, nobody has any real concrete idea and most babies are a case-by-case basis when they're 5, 6, 7 months old. Not to mention any number of things that can go wrong when a baby is presumed viable.

Are we supposed to take probable abortions and test these babies to see when they would be viable? That's a bit inhumane.


Are you referring to the legal aspect or the medical aspect? For legal cases, it's based on generally accepted scientific evidence. I assume that medically, it is the same. It's my understanding that there is a pretty clear point where a fetus has ANY chance of survival and where it doesn't, and that is where the line is drawn. (I could be wrong on that)


Well that changes all the time. Just a couple years ago, a pre-term delivery born before the 25th week was considered unviable. But we're learning more, technology is improving, and now neonates born at 23 weeks are leaving Rainbow and Akron Children's and leading a normal life.

So how do you set the legal definition on a set point that keeps moving?
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