Palin

[Stu]

Rational steps? Like what, cutting the CG tax and giving rick folks a nice big tax cut while the rest of us pick up the slack?

are you referring to the Bush tax cuts? if so, everyone received a tax cut under Bush's tax plan, it wasnt just the rich. If you paid taxes, you paid less thanks the W.

[Orenthal]

The moment you take office those problems are your problems. The ownership belongs with Obama. Show me the rational steps he is taking to fix the overspending?

Oh please spare me. How many times did Repubs blame Clinton for 9/11?

You know how many times I heard "you can't blame Bush, it was only his 9th month in office".

Rational steps? Like what, cutting the CG tax and giving rick folks a nice big tax cut while the rest of us pick up the slack?

How many on the dem side blamed Bush for things outside his control. We can go all day long with this bullshit. A true leader doesn't look back and blame the other guy, he puts things in motion to fix them, and takes responsibility. Face it Obama is taking all the things Bush did horrible, and is quadrupling it... I am a Republican and Bush fudged up so much shit, there its said, and was said while he was president. If he was a saint of the party, we would not be going through the current fracture.

btw Bush cut taxes across the board, but the guy must have failed econ 101 cause those cuts only work with an equal or greater cut in government spending. We all know Bush, hell really no politician, has cut any kind of spending in the last couple decades...

[jb]

Are we really trying to convince Fire Marshall Bill of something or change his worldview? Waste of fucking time.

Maybe. But not my agenda. Ron is a mensch. We hung out and downed mucho Miller Lite at the packers' TG. He's a cool dude. So I pay no attention to this FMB internets personna. I know better.

If enough of us actually got together at events in person, it'd ruin all this internets drama.

[jb]

Rational steps? Like what, cutting the CG tax and giving rick folks a nice big tax cut while the rest of us pick up the slack?

are you referring to the Bush tax cuts? if so, everyone received a tax cut under Bush's tax plan, it wasnt just the rich. If you paid taxes, you paid less thanks the W.

Duh.

I am talking about progessive tax rates, income, spending, and what it talkes to run the country and pay the light bill and not be in a deficit.

But I know you know that.

So take your red herrings and go away.

[jb]

Face it Obama is taking all the things Bush did horrible, and is quadrupling it...

Such as..... ?

[jb]

Also funny how your world view is 100% Demcocrat apologia, and 100% GOP villainy.

Hey! Be nice to JB. He lives in the Pro-Union Democrat cesspool known as the Mahoning Valley. That's all they know out there. Believe me, I know. You know, for me to vote for my mayor in my town there I have to be a registered Democrat because whoever wins the primary automatically wins the election in my town because nobody ever dares to run against the Democrat. I'm actually thinking about running just to see my name on the ballet and to tell my kids 'Hey I ran for mayor!'.

The (R) behind my name will take care of me actually winning there. Probably will get my house egged there too.

+1 on the rest of your post Orenthal.

Po-Po? Hard core Dem?

Not exactly.

You should run for mayor Dude.

BTW Bro, I've lived here for exactly 5 of my 40+ years. Prior to that, I think I stepped foot here in the MV maybe 3 or 4 times max.

[jb]

Barry is left holding the bag.

The moment you take office those problems are your problems. The ownership belongs with Obama. Show me the rational steps he is taking to fix the overspending?

Your post is a rant and I can only imagine the fire was burning in your eyes while typing. For instance, the highest marginal tax rate was 25% in 1925. Also funny how your world view is 100% Demcocrat apologia, and 100% GOP villainy. Common sense says when running a deficit, one that is to the point of economic collapse, you reign in spending across the board. Only a moron, and there are plenty, would continue to spend on his maxed out credit cards while unemployed, and then rationalize it based on what the money was spent on.

Barry in his 10 months is just getting started on a path that could have taught the spendthrift Bush administration lessons they never dreamed of. Show me the steps he is taking to STOP the spending at some point. Na, he will use this crisis to baloon the sheet outta spending that is the progressive playbook. Time to realize that this government needs a dramatic cut in expansion before we even think of healthcare.

Cuts to everything. I'd start with the largest being to transfer payments, subsidies, and aid to foriegn governments, and finish with defense and infrastructure. Cut spending by 70%, and not bullshit cuts that cause the states to increase spending, trickle those cuts down. They force states to tow the line when it comes to highway dollars, time for the blackmail to be on spending cuts and efficiency. Maybe then I'll explore the most progressive single payer health care plan. Only at that point, once government has been made to be accountable for their spending.

Related, but unrelated...
Oh, I finally thought about yer statement about removal of the profit incentive causing increased efficiency, causing healthcare to be provided at nearer to cost. It's retarded beyond belief. Generating profit is what causes costs to be reduced. Even if I give you the profit gap as a cost, and thus removed by a government takeover, you neglect to add to your equation government inefficiency and blundering which would probably eclipse any profit gap within 2 years. Also I'd love to see how the ultimate 3rd party payer model would cause prices to go down. Spreading the cost for anything, especially using the government as the executioner, is doomed to failure.

While this doesn't make me the bearer of truth by any means, I worked for the DoD as an Inspector General, and 99% of government programs will and do and did run dramatically over estimates. I know your response was to the flamingly irrational FMB, and hope my passion for cutting the shit outta government expenditures did not lead to too much hyperbole and a devolving of the discussion to TIMMAH/FMB/HarveyEdgeyJorProgPekar partisan bullplop...

Also apologize for any spelling or grammar errors... I hate typing on this laptop.

nahhh.


I'm a centrist, buddy. I'm not that easily defined. I'm an American with a brain. In short, I will admit that the right whack wing nuts annoy me personally far more than the left whack wing nuts just because I am convinced they are dumber, infinately more loathsome in their naked hatred they don't even try to mask, and more easily manipulated by their elites. There, you wanted a rant, you got it.

I actually agree with you in principle in some ways, but differ on the nuances of the ownership issue. I think the new POTUS or whomever owns the agenda and the initiatives, but the results are often lagging . Too complex, too much going on that the government can't control.

Spending? You seem like a smart guy. You know this is politics and can't be fixed. It is how the modern system works; influence, fvors, lobbying, It's out of freaking control. It is also a distinctly non-partisan issue. The GOP doesn't give a fuck about fiscal restraint, they just want their dollars going to the guys wearing their jerseys. Like the DoD. So do the dems but they don't seem as hypoctitical about that particular issue (they save their hypocracy for other issues). They spend and admit it.

Generating profit is a neutral factor depending upon many other factors. When running a pizza shop, or a car dealership, or something that is a good or service in true market conditions, I am a fan. When no market exists and the conditions are lined up in certain ways, it can easily be an inefficiency, as it is with health care.

Thanks for the correction on the history of marginal tax rates. I had my facts wrong. I do know that the tax rates now at the upper end are significantly lower than in the Regan Era, and from the 1950's, the most prosperous decade in US history.

Barry isn't reigning in spending. It is definately a source of concern. I wish they would re-visit the unspent portion of the stimulus and scale it bck. Clearly, it isn't having any sprt of multi-sector impact as hoped. I do wish they'd go balls out in the area of renewable energy, and that' not from a crunchy, environmentl perspective. I think it is a game changer akin to the age of coal and later oil. I'd hate to get left behind.

And yes, as nations and markets shift away from the dollar as he standard, the ramifications are really onorous. The Obama admin needs to more aggressively confront this.

But none of these meaty, weighty issues you introduce rightly have jack shit to do with the Gelnn Beck lunatic frindge agenda. And frankly, that's what the GOP has bcome to me for a long, long time since Lee Atwater. That's why I stay center but often reflect left. The Dems are inept and parts of the left whacko fringe are loathsome, but on the whole, it isn't as defining to me as how embraced the whack wing right is to the mainstream GOP. Don't want this centrist to view the GoP as "villainous" ? Disavow the fucktard mainstream media lunitic fringe elements and quasi-political figures. Call them out as the McCarthyest pigs they are. Then I might be more receptive to message.

Just my subjective opinion and it may color how you read my takes, admitedly.

Be cool OJ. Love to her some $ 100,000 hammer DoD stories. No names, please.

PS - my interface is whack as well. My text box is jumping as I type. Sorry as well for the crappo spelling etc. I can't read lines without scrolling back down after I type.

[Orenthal]

Face it Obama is taking all the things Bush did horrible, and is quadrupling it...

Such as..... ?

Bush...
Total projected cost 152 billion...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_S ... ct_of_2008

Obama
Total projected cost 787 billion...
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/moneymatt ... timhub.htm

Not that this makes it Obama vs. Bush, because if Bush were somehow in office for 2009 he probably passes the same bill. On TARP Obama as president elect was said to have some input so I give them both credit for that crap.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Economy/ ... 175&page=1

I don't wanna go all tea party in here, but the major thing stopping any correction in government spending is the constant need to see who was responsible, and as long as it wasn't my guy, he should get a pass/blank check. Every freaking recovery of my lifetime has been a jobless one, a stock market bubble, or some other crap related to housing. Each and every time you can usually trace things back to the government one way or the other. The sad fact is both parties are in the business of big government to one degree or another, and it pisses me off.

[Orenthal]

Just read your second post JB, and we seem to be of the same mindset there, except I reflect to the right, only because their principles in theory make more sense to me. Of course I have also been called an emotionless asshole so that may be part of the reason the left side of my yin/yang is woefully underdeveloped.

I don't think we really solve the problem of government spending until it is a crisis, kind of a rock bottom thing, because the amount of people like us, attuned to the issues, is a minority. That is how politics since post Grover Cleveland have been played. You just gotta lol at a 2,000 page health care bill, when compared to a 17 page Constitution.

Let's get the pitchforks and torches. First we aim for the Tea Parties and wacked out Left Wing hippie protestors, then we go after their masters in Washington DC.

When it was easier to steal/acquire a new laptop then a #2 pencil is when I decided government employment wasn't what I needed. Think how bad it must have been for a motivated person if one would give up the insane benefits of having a federal government, white collar job...

[Fire Marshall Bill]

[
No way man. Not my job and I'm broke, plus it violates the JB Doctrine: "you can't help people too stupid to want to be helped."

I agree with you this is what it would take, though. And that's why we just need to leave.

Fuck 'em.

Blow them up from afar after bribing the locals for intel. If the loals we bribe lie, kill them, too.

Old school CIA.

Not huge military ops.

Fukin-aye!

You can't totally extermite a den of rats. You blow them up, they scatter, you pick off as many as you can while they're on the run but...sooner or later, if you ignore the problem long enuff, they'll build another nest and community

You defintely have to keep after them fuckers

My way tho is much easier.....I've always been in favor of bringing the toops home and securing our borders first.

Then, on the way home, bomb every fucking port, air field, oil refinery and military base we ever built. Throw in a few power plants and embassy buildings and away we go.

No more foregin aid. No more student visas. 1000 miles of razor wire on the Mexican border and M-60's every 100 meters

Nuke Mecca, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan....turn it all into glass....put on the radiation suits....go get the oil.... and burn it

Get a really big saw, cut off Florida, tow it to Cooba and drop anchor.

Drop a nuke into the San Andreas Fault, watch California slide into the Pacific

Come home....have a picnic

Whats the problem?

[jb]

Every freaking recovery of my lifetime has been a jobless one, a stock market bubble, or some other crap related to housing. Each and every time you can usually trace things back to the government one way or the other. The sad fact is both parties are in the business of big government to one degree or another, and it pisses me off.

I'll sign off on that one with you OJ.

Spot on.

Peace out.

[jb]

You just gotta lol at a 2,000 page health care bill, when compared to a 17 page Constitution.

Monior, minor point here, but Beck whipped this one out and it is a crazy take; no offense. The USC is basiclly a philosophical document full of vision and includes a framework. Any appropration bill at all is detailed as crap and is enpormous. It is amazing to me that the health care stuff is only 2,000 pages.

Kumquats and starfruit.

BTW - whoever thinks they know how this is going to turn out in 10 years is a liar or a fool. But I agree the status quo is not acceptable nor sustainable.

I am with you on the rest.

[Orenthal]

You just gotta lol at a 2,000 page health care bill, when compared to a 17 page Constitution.

Monior, minor point here, but Beck whipped this one out and it is a crazy take; no offense. The USC is basiclly a philosophical document full of vision and includes a framework. Any appropration bill at all is detailed as crap and is enpormous. It is amazing to me that the health care stuff is only 2,000 pages.

Kumquats and starfruit.

BTW - whoever thinks they know how this is going to turn out in 10 years is a liar or a fool. But I agree the status quo is not acceptable nor sustainable.

I am with you on the rest.

Of course its apples to oranges, but I still think 2,000 pages is excessive. More even then the length is the fact most of our elected reps have no idea what they are voting for, or who wrote the legislation...

JB I was turned by your arguement that health care is a different animal then just some random appropriation. Thus the normal partisan thrashing over spending doesn't carry as much weight. This just reeks, I luv the vote on a late Saturday as a topper...

Are we building an addition to a condemned house? So many things could be done to try and get the costs under control before a new massive government program. Alternatively I'd cut all spending on means tested welfare and put that money into a 100% universal health care plan. Never happens, but I'd say that health care trumps the varied spending of those programs when it comes to public good.

I know most will lambast the source but...
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/upload/SR_67.pdf

Shit cut welfare spending in half, and smash the crooked defense contractor handouts and healthcare is in business.

Oh peace out, but on Palin; I just dont get the love or the hate. To me she is a product of the sensationalized dumbed down media culture. Boring smart white guys have fallen so far... You can remove the white part of that thought if it scares ya, but we are mos def at the bottom of the hip pile, and today seems it takes more style then substance at our highest offices...

[Cerebral_DownTime]

The moment you take office those problems are your problems. The ownership belongs with Obama. Show me the rational steps he is taking to fix the overspending?

Oh please spare me. How many times did Repubs blame Clinton for 9/11?

You know how many times I heard "you can't blame Bush, it was only his 9th month in office".

Rational steps? Like what, cutting the CG tax and giving rick folks a nice big tax cut while the rest of us pick up the slack?

How many on the dem side blamed Bush for things outside his control. We can go all day long with this bullshit. A true leader doesn't look back and blame the other guy, he puts things in motion to fix them, and takes responsibility. Face it Obama is taking all the things Bush did horrible, and is quadrupling it... I am a Republican and Bush fudged up so much shit, there its said, and was said while he was president. If he was a saint of the party, we would not be going through the current fracture.

btw Bush cut taxes across the board, but the guy must have failed econ 101 cause those cuts only work with an equal or greater cut in government spending. We all know Bush, hell really no politician, has cut any kind of spending in the last couple decades...

The bolded part is the only thing I disagree with. Good post.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

The moment you take office those problems are your problems. The ownership belongs with Obama. Show me the rational steps he is taking to fix the overspending?

Oh please spare me. How many times did Repubs blame Clinton for 9/11?

You know how many times I heard "you can't blame Bush, it was only his 9th month in office".

Rational steps? Like what, cutting the CG tax and giving rick folks a nice big tax cut while the rest of us pick up the slack?

How many on the dem side blamed Bush for things outside his control. We can go all day long with this bullshit. A true leader doesn't look back and blame the other guy, he puts things in motion to fix them, and takes responsibility. Face it Obama is taking all the things Bush did horrible, and is quadrupling it... I am a Republican and Bush fudged up so much shit, there its said, and was said while he was president. If he was a saint of the party, we would not be going through the current fracture.

btw Bush cut taxes across the board, but the guy must have failed econ 101 cause those cuts only work with an equal or greater cut in government spending. We all know Bush, hell really no politician, has cut any kind of spending in the last couple decades...[/quote]

The bolded part is the only thing I disagree with. Good post.

You can't disagre with the bolded part then agree with the rest of the post, esp the last paragraph, unless you want to blame Bush for Obama's $787 billion 10 month spending spree

In which case you'd be disgreeing with a lot more than the bolded part. Don't ya think?

The last 13 words tho should get everyone agreeing

[aoxo1]

http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/2009/11 ... onspiracy/

Nice piece by Taibbi on our sophomoric press/national discourse vis a vis Palin; just ignore the end if you need to.

[The Score]

I will never vote for a person for POTUS, man or woman, repub or dem, if that person has named one of their kids after ESPN because he/she wants to work on Sportscenter.

I just think that is something you can't recover from.

[exiledbuckeye]

Just because: