Authority

[FUDU]

This board seems to get into some good back n forth about authority.

By authority I am not just referring to law enforcement, as that often dominates the authority discussions in here. I am talking law enforcement, management (in the workplace) and many of the other times and places in life where a person/group of authority seems to be in place.

Discussion welcomed I was just curious how a poll would end up.

[jfiling]

First! Great poll, and I look forward to the discussion.

[Erie Warrior]

When it comes to police, almost always. Even when they are dicks. I've been on the wrong end of that stick a few times, and I've learned my lesson.

Other authority, not so much. I get very condescending and pretentious when I "know" what I'm asked to do is inefficient or lacks sound judgement. I'll usually ask my superiors to justify their decisions, which is never a good thing. But I've got a degree, 2 professional licenses and a sparkling observation history, so I bet I can find another job if push comes to shove.

I can also carry heavy things, so I got that going for me.

[peeker643]

Doesn't 'inherent' imply it's always there? Like a 'yes' or 'no' answer without levels?

I agree with EW: With law enforcement, yes, it's there until it is lost by an individual/organization. With other positions of authority like teachers, managers, etc, no, that trust and level of respect needs to be earned.

[Orenthal]

I'm sure my vote was the same as EW and Peek, and my reasons and rationale are the same... Usually...

[FUDU]

Inherent means belonging to the essential nature of a thing, not necessarily always (yes or no). IOW do you have a natural trust in authority. I feel it is possible to quantify it by degrees.

[aoxo1]

Trust and respect are different. I have an inherent distrust of authority, but that doesn't mean I don't respect authority that is legitimate.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

I voted for option 2 for police and judges. 90% of politicians I have no respect for.

[FUDU]

Agreed aoxo, and I think the vast majority of people confuse trust and respect for authority. You can completely distrust authority but still respect it.

I also think there are a lot of people that feel authority it an inherent concept to begin with. IOW that the concept of authority just naturally exists b/c of the nature of authority. Authority only exists b/c we grant it, we allow authority to exist by our choice to agree upon a social contract that is supposed to be aided by and thrive with the help of authority.

[municipalmutt]

I have a theory that if you say "says who" enough times, you'll end up in jail. I've only ever tested this theory once. It worked.

Edit: As far as trusting authority. For me it's always been a matter of accepting the authority. When I do do concede authority to someone/something, I usually respect/trust it. There are positions of authority that demand respect (police, boss, etc..) it is up to the individual holding these positions to to ensure trust is established. Trust is earned while I think respect is more of an upfront requirement.

[jfiling]

I have a theory that if you say "says who" enough times, you'll end up in jail. I've only ever tested this theory once. It worked.

Do you mind sharing if you were convicted of anything?

[municipalmutt]

I have a theory that if you say "says who" enough times, you'll end up in jail. I've only ever tested this theory once. It worked.

Do you mind sharing if you were convicted of anything?

Well back in '89 when I retired from the military, I was in a suburb of Orlando. Got drunk on the 4th of July and proceeded to climb out of my apartment balcony up to the roof to get a better view of the fireworks and throw some of my own.

Some maintenance worker said I wasn't allowed on the roof, followed by the super, followed by the landlord, followed by the police, followed by a threat to get the SWAT team. I was busted for disorderly conduct, posted bond in about 6 hours. The charges were dropped and I wasn't convicted.

[FUDU]

I have a theory that if you say "says who" enough times, you'll end up in jail. I've only ever tested this theory once. It worked.

Edit: As far as trusting authority. For me it's always been a matter of accepting the authority. When I do do concede authority to someone/something, I usually respect/trust it. There are positions of authority that demand respect (police, boss, etc..) it is up to the individual holding these positions to to ensure trust is established. Trust is earned while I think respect is more of an upfront requirement.

I think trust and respect both should be earned.

Respect should come into play with authority in so much that you respect that the entity has been given authority, but at least IMO that respect MUST be earned and the entity that has the authority should acknowledge that.

I agree about saying "says who" enough times, however IMO that comes back to bite you in the ass b/c it looks like a sign of disrespect more than a sign of distrust.

[peeker643]

I have a theory that if you say "says who" enough times, you'll end up in jail. I've only ever tested this theory once. It worked.

Edit: As far as trusting authority. For me it's always been a matter of accepting the authority. When I do do concede authority to someone/something, I usually respect/trust it. There are positions of authority that demand respect (police, boss, etc..) it is up to the individual holding these positions to to ensure trust is established. Trust is earned while I think respect is more of an upfront requirement.

I think trust and respect both should be earned.

Respect should come into play with authority in so much that you respect that the entity has been given authority, but at least IMO that respect MUST be earned and the entity that has the authority should acknowledge that.

I agree about saying "says who" enough times, however IMO that comes back to bite you in the ass b/c it looks like a sign of disrespect more than a sign of distrust.

When you were a young FUDU what did your mom and dad teach you about the police? Did you learn early on that they they were 'the good guys' and that they were there for your benefit and to protect people or did mom and dad tell you they were an authoritarian branch of law enforcement who had to earn your trust and respect and who weren't to be trusted until that time?

Me? When I was a little Peeker643 ma and pa 643 told me the police were the good guys and there for my benefit to protect and keep us safe. It wasn't til I was older that I figured out there were always a few who tarnished the badge. Still that way today for the most part.

I consider that inherent since it was taught from before I can remember and is an essential part of what makes me me.

Of course, YMMV. We all have experiences that shape our opinions as we get older.

[FUDU]

I have a theory that if you say "says who" enough times, you'll end up in jail. I've only ever tested this theory once. It worked.

Edit: As far as trusting authority. For me it's always been a matter of accepting the authority. When I do do concede authority to someone/something, I usually respect/trust it. There are positions of authority that demand respect (police, boss, etc..) it is up to the individual holding these positions to to ensure trust is established. Trust is earned while I think respect is more of an upfront requirement.

I think trust and respect both should be earned.

Respect should come into play with authority in so much that you respect that the entity has been given authority, but at least IMO that respect MUST be earned and the entity that has the authority should acknowledge that.

I agree about saying "says who" enough times, however IMO that comes back to bite you in the ass b/c it looks like a sign of disrespect more than a sign of distrust.

When you were a young FUDU what did your mom and dad teach you about the police? Did you learn early on that they they were 'the good guys' and that they were there for your benefit and to protect people or did mom and dad tell you they were an authoritarian branch of law enforcement who had to earn your trust and respect and who weren't to be trusted until that time?

Me? When I was a little Peeker643 ma and pa 643 told me the police were the good guys and there for my benefit to protect and keep us safe. It wasn't til I was older that I figured out there were always a few who tarnished the badge. Still that way today for the most part.

I consider that inherent since it was taught from before I can remember and is an essential part of what makes me me.

Of course, YMMV. We all have experiences that shape our opinions as we get older.

I get what you are saying, but I look at it like I do a lot of things that our parents teach us as kids that we truly need to decide for ourselves as we mature (IE religion).

I was told/taught that the police were good and there to protect us, for the most part I find that true as I stand here as an adult. However my level of distrust, (which BTW I voted rarely), is based upon how authority always expands, never contracts, and most of the time it is to the benefit of the entity in authority. IOW there is always some kind of agenda that has little to do with benefiting those not in authority.

As authority expands the liberty of those that must answer to authority contracts.

I respect authority, just have little trust in it.