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Obama's Ed. Speech

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Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:36 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/08/ ... index.html

Someone explain to me how this was bad. If I had a cable hookup in my room, I would have showed it. Many teachers at my school did. Is there any conservative here that can convince me that this speech was somehow detrimental to America's youth, or are all the Fox news guys really just right wings jerk-offs.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:27 pm

Erie Warrior wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/08/obama.school.speech/index.html

Someone explain to me how this was bad. If I had a cable hookup in my room, I would have showed it. Many teachers at my school did. Is there any conservative here that can convince me that this speech was somehow detrimental to America's youth, or are all the Fox news guys really just right wings jerk-offs.

I'm not completely conservative and I will not try to speak for conservatives, but there wasn't a ton wrong with the speech he gave. Remember though the fuss was about nobody knowing what he was going to say. All the hints and implications (from the study plans and guidelines for the event) were that he was going to focus on way too much stuff not concerning education and even possibly speak about politics and why kids SHOULD listen to the politicians.

Also note there were changes to the plans, and it is even believed the speech was significantly changes after the initial blow back. That tells you something right there.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby Ziner » Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:03 am

One of my friends who is a democrat said it best

"The political left thinks its ok to abstain from the pledge of allegiance and decline to stand for the national anthem, and then the political right thinks its ok to tell your kids to ignore the president when he addresses you directly. and if you wonder why kids today don't respect authority, its because the adults they look up to act like children"

Its all bullshit politics just like everything is these days. The conservatives are being stupid, Fox News gets ratings when they say what the small percentage that watch the evening news want to hear.

However, if Bush was going to address school children in the same manner no one is going to tell me that the liberals wouldnt be bouncing off the walls over it. Politicians suck, the media sucks, and people who worry about a president "corrupting" their school children with a speech suck.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:46 am

I believe they had the speech posted on Monday. Bush talked to kids all the time. He was with them on 9-11. What would make a rational, educated person think that is it inappropriate for the POTUS to address students? I think it's still a race issue. Remember, Obama was catching a ton of flak because people thought he was Muslim. So what if he was? I suspect there is still a large number of people who can't get past the color of his skin.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby RC » Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:33 am

Ziner wrote:However, if Bush was going to address school children in the same manner no one is going to tell me that the liberals wouldnt be bouncing off the walls over it. Politicians suck, the media sucks, and people who worry about a president "corrupting" their school children with a speech suck.


+1.

Hey I can't stand Obama as much as the next guy but I give props to the pres for doing this. I think addressing the students at the beginning of the year should be an option every year to get children more involved in their government.

A speech like he gave is fine with me. Just don't inject your politics into the students speech. Save that for the joint session of Congress the next day.

My stepdaughter watched it (she's 9) and she said she didn't really pay attention anyway. Ah you gotta love kids. :woot:
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:48 am

50 years ago if the President had addressed kids via radio you can bet your ass that parents, left and right, would have demanded their children hear it, listen to it and respect the man giving it as well as the teachers standing in the front of the room.

Just shows how far the polarization has gone in that time. You're goddamned right every kid in the country should have been able to hear that speech. It's from the leader of this country and that's a more meaningful institution than either political party no matter how they each try to manipulate and bastardize it.

It's easier for some assholes with kids to demean the other side as opposed to intelligently explaining the philosophical differences to their children. It's another indication that a mudslide of ignorance continues to bury us.

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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby Ziner » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:48 am

Erie Warrior wrote:I believe they had the speech posted on Monday. Bush talked to kids all the time. He was with them on 9-11. What would make a rational, educated person think that is it inappropriate for the POTUS to address students? I think it's still a race issue. Remember, Obama was catching a ton of flak because people thought he was Muslim. So what if he was? I suspect there is still a large number of people who can't get past the color of his skin.


Just for clarification, Bush (to my knowledge) never had a speech nationwide that was directed solely to kids. I think this is what the wingbats are protesting. Obviously Presidents are at schools alot and speak to indvidual schools or classes.

Concerning race, I dont know, man. I just cant grasp my mind around the fact that people still see race when it comes to this stuff. You are probably right to an extent, but I think it is bullshit that everytime someone disagrees with Obama and his policies the fringe left are screaming racism. Its as if you cant oppose him or else your racist. They tried pulling alot of that shit around election time.

Moreso, I think this is just a case of people being whiners when it comes to their politics. They dont like Obama and he can do nothing good. They dont want their kids to listen to them, because they cant see through their red state tinted glasses they are wearing.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby exiledbuckeye » Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:00 am

Ziner wrote:Just for clarification, Bush (to my knowledge) never had a speech nationwide that was directed solely to kids. I think this is what the wingbats are protesting. Obviously Presidents are at schools alot and speak to indvidual schools or classes.

Concerning race, I dont know, man. I just cant grasp my mind around the fact that people still see race when it comes to this stuff. You are probably right to an extent, but I think it is bullshit that everytime someone disagrees with Obama and his policies the fringe left are screaming racism. Its as if you cant oppose him or else your racist. They tried pulling alot of that shit around election time.

Moreso, I think this is just a case of people being whiners when it comes to their politics. They dont like Obama and he can do nothing good. They dont want their kids to listen to them, because they cant see through their red state tinted glasses they are wearing.


I think you're right, I don't think he had a nationwide speech. But he did travel from school to school talking up No Child Left Behind when he was trying to get Congress to pass that....

Bush I and Reagan both had nationwide addresses to students, I believe, as did Nancy Reagan.

I was talking to some friends yesterday about this and I don't think that GW Bush could have pulled off parts of this speech. When Obama was talking about kids who come from tough circumstances, he has the credibility to talk about that. I thought that was pretty cool. The rest of it was good, too. I'm not sure why people are so damn upset, other than it's the product of the last 15 or so years of political bullshit. The "opposition" has to be pissed off about something at all times, even if it's not rational.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby stonepm » Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:30 am

This was the dumbest thing anyone could get their boxers in a wad over. Every kid that's not in the Glee Club fell asleep or dicked off anyway. Just like we all woulda done when we were in school and they showed something like this.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:40 pm

Ziner wrote: Concerning race, I dont know, man. I just cant grasp my mind around the fact that people still see race when it comes to this stuff. You are probably right to an extent, but I think it is bullshit that everytime someone disagrees with Obama and his policies the fringe left are screaming racism. Its as if you cant oppose him or else your racist. They tried pulling alot of that shit around election time.


Would Clinton have faced the same opposition? This country is still far from resolving the race issue. I think the "racist" tag applied to Obama dissenters is frequently pimped by people who are not articulate enough to support their stance on any one issue. This is an interesting situation, and will be more so after tonight's speech. Obama deserves credit, he's swinging for the fences. Let's hope he's not Shoppesque.

As far as kids dicking off, of course they did. And it would certainly have been worse if there was an assembly for the entire school to watch the speech. However, if shown in a government class, it was certainly a teachable moment. Not sure how much the younger kids got from it, but I liked it for HS students.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby Stu » Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:45 pm

FUDU wrote:I'm not completely conservative and I will not try to speak for conservatives, but there wasn't a ton wrong with the speech he gave. Remember though the fuss was about nobody knowing what he was going to say. All the hints and implications (from the study plans and guidelines for the event) were that he was going to focus on way too much stuff not concerning education and even possibly speak about politics and why kids SHOULD listen to the politicians.

Also note there were changes to the plans, and it is even believed the speech was significantly changes after the initial blow back. That tells you something right there.




I'm quoting FUDU here because obviously everyone missed it. He clearly states why people had issue with this. It wasn't what Obama said, it was what he originally planned to say.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:54 pm

Erie Warrior wrote:I believe they had the speech posted on Monday. Bush talked to kids all the time. He was with them on 9-11. What would make a rational, educated person think that is it inappropriate for the POTUS to address students? I think it's still a race issue. Remember, Obama was catching a ton of flak because people thought he was Muslim. So what if he was? I suspect there is still a large number of people who can't get past the color of his skin.

The problem wasn't the speech, it was not knowing what the speech was going to be ahead of time.

Presidents addressing school children is fine, always has been, been going on for decades.

Race? Are you freakin serious....pathetic.

The dude won the election, rather easily, race was not the issue with people being concerned about him speaking to school children.

A big big part of the issue was the guidelines posted by the WH and the lessons plans that were suggested to accompany the speech. Parents got concerned and rightfully so. We talk about the lack of real parenting (on this board a lot and now when the parents take an interest is it uncalled for and foolish?

Make sense please.

Still funny how things were changed after the initial blow black, only means one thing.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:58 pm

Peeker643 wrote:50 years ago if the President had addressed kids via radio you can bet your ass that parents, left and right, would have demanded their children hear it, listen to it and respect the man giving it as well as the teachers standing in the front of the room.

Just shows how far the polarization has gone in that time. You're goddamned right every kid in the country should have been able to hear that speech. It's from the leader of this country and that's a more meaningful institution than either political party no matter how they each try to manipulate and bastardize it.

It's easier for some assholes with kids to demean the other side as opposed to intelligently explaining the philosophical differences to their children. It's another indication that a mudslide of ignorance continues to bury us.

And yes, I voted McCain.


In hindsight of course children should have heard the speech, anytime a president wants to speak to children about doing well in school, being responsible and making the best of themselves kids should listen. However children shouldn't listen to the president JUST b/c he is the president, the message is the most important thing.

For some reason people are covering their ears as to what the majority of people had issues
with on this whole Obama speech to the kids.

ETA: Thank you Stu.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:59 pm

Erie Warrior wrote:Would Clinton have faced the same opposition?


If you have to ask, you don't remember the Clinton years very well.

This country is still far from resolving the race issue.


I have less of a problem with the "race issue" than with the mentality of those who would "resolve" it.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby exiledbuckeye » Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:00 pm

Stu wrote:
FUDU wrote:I'm not completely conservative and I will not try to speak for conservatives, but there wasn't a ton wrong with the speech he gave. Remember though the fuss was about nobody knowing what he was going to say. All the hints and implications (from the study plans and guidelines for the event) were that he was going to focus on way too much stuff not concerning education and even possibly speak about politics and why kids SHOULD listen to the politicians.

Also note there were changes to the plans, and it is even believed the speech was significantly changes after the initial blow back. That tells you something right there.




I'm quoting FUDU here because obviously everyone missed it. He clearly states why people had issue with this. It wasn't what Obama said, it was what he originally planned to say.


Last I checked, there was no confirmation that the speech was altered in any form - just wild speculation from those opposed. The lesson plans were altered, I believe.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:09 pm

exiledbuckeye wrote:
Stu wrote:
FUDU wrote:I'm not completely conservative and I will not try to speak for conservatives, but there wasn't a ton wrong with the speech he gave. Remember though the fuss was about nobody knowing what he was going to say. All the hints and implications (from the study plans and guidelines for the event) were that he was going to focus on way too much stuff not concerning education and even possibly speak about politics and why kids SHOULD listen to the politicians.

Also note there were changes to the plans, and it is even believed the speech was significantly changes after the initial blow back. That tells you something right there.




I'm quoting FUDU here because obviously everyone missed it. He clearly states why people had issue with this. It wasn't what Obama said, it was what he originally planned to say.


Last I checked, there was no confirmation that the speech was altered in any form - just wild speculation from those opposed. The lesson plans were altered, I believe.


Which is exactly why I clearly stated it is "believed" the speech was changed. I am not 100% sure on this but the speech was not made public the same time the guidelines and lesson plans were. Logic only dictates if the speech was NOT known at the time of the initial blow black then it would be very reasonable to think the speech was changed in some way shape or form.

It is really simple, people wanted to know exactly what Obama would be saying to their children before their children heard it.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:22 pm

HermanFontenot wrote: If you have to ask, you don't remember the Clinton years very well.


Apples to apples- the first year of Clinton's presidency.

So assumed changes in the speech are enough to assume the original speech was so detrimental as to cause harm to the children of America? I don't see why the POTUS would present a politically loaded speech to those who by in large can't understand is issue, let alone vote.

I think Bush was a moron. I would let any speech of his play in my class. It's not about telling kids what to think, it's about helping them to form their own opinions.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:32 pm

Apples to apples- the first year of Clinton's presidency.


You mean the year his health-care initiative got shot down, while at the same time the talk-radio airwaves were rife with speculation that he had Vincent Foster murdered?
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:46 pm

Erie Warrior wrote:
HermanFontenot wrote: If you have to ask, you don't remember the Clinton years very well.


Apples to apples- the first year of Clinton's presidency.

So assumed changes in the speech are enough to assume the original speech was so detrimental as to cause harm to the children of America? I don't see why the POTUS would present a politically loaded speech to those who by in large can't understand is issue, let alone vote.

I think Bush was a moron. I would let any speech of his play in my class. It's not about telling kids what to think, it's about helping them to form their own opinions.

Erie, honest question for you.

Do you have children?

If so, can I speak with them?
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:50 pm

FUDU wrote:Erie, honest question for you.

Do you have children?

If so, can I speak with them?


Not unless I can see you questions beforehand.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:55 pm

Erie Warrior wrote:
FUDU wrote:Erie, honest question for you.

Do you have children?

If so, can I speak with them?


Not unless I can see you questions beforehand.

Thank you, my work here is done.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby aoxo1 » Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:27 pm

HermanFontenot wrote:
Apples to apples- the first year of Clinton's presidency.


You mean the year his health-care initiative got shot down, while at the same time the talk-radio airwaves were rife with speculation that he had Vincent Foster murdered?


Don't forget that the Clintons were a bunch of drug runners.

Right wing talk radio was just as much in perpetual crisis manufacture mode during Clinton's presidency as Obama's, doesn't have anything to do with race per se. Doesn't mean there isn't a racial component to some of the things, but that isn't what is driving it.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby exiledbuckeye » Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:13 pm

Erie Warrior wrote:
HermanFontenot wrote: If you have to ask, you don't remember the Clinton years very well.


Apples to apples- the first year of Clinton's presidency.

So assumed changes in the speech are enough to assume the original speech was so detrimental as to cause harm to the children of America? I don't see why the POTUS would present a politically loaded speech to those who by in large can't understand is issue, let alone vote.

I think Bush was a moron. I would let any speech of his play in my class. It's not about telling kids what to think, it's about helping them to form their own opinions.


And jeez, here's an idea, parents: let your kid listen to what the president has to say. Respect the office.

Then, if you disagree, use it as a damn teaching moment to explain your views and why you disagree.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby pup » Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:42 am

So we do not trust the President of the United States to talk to school kids without an advanced copy of what he is going to say? Really? Christ.

Are people worried he is going to convince them to convince their parents to vote for him again? Cuz the parents are stupid enough to be convinced by their elementary school children? He was going to pass along some sort of agenda the kids could jedi mind trick their parents into following?

Stop it. Didn't vote for him. But to think his speech to young kids would somehow be harmful to them? Get. The. F. Out.

Again. When 90% of the country figures out that 90% of politicians are 100% full of shit and the media is no longer the driving force behind elections and the way people think, we will have a shot at being The United States of America again. Until then, we are just sheep.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby Cease » Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:49 am

As a former student, I don't like the precident being set for a scheduled gathering around the TV every year. This speech works as a learning tool if a school's History or Social Sciences teacher wants to incorporate it into their lesson plans. If so, he/she needs to commit to showing the speech every year moving forward.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:53 am

Pup wrote:So we do not trust the President of the United States to talk to school kids without an advanced copy of what he is going to say? Really? Christ.

Are people worried he is going to convince them to convince their parents to vote for him again? Cuz the parents are stupid enough to be convinced by their elementary school children? He was going to pass along some sort of agenda the kids could jedi mind trick their parents into following?

Stop it. Didn't vote for him. But to think his speech to young kids would somehow be harmful to them? Get. The. F. Out.

Again. When 90% of the country figures out that 90% of politicians are 100% full of shit and the media is no longer the driving force behind elections and the way people think, we will have a shot at being The United States of America again. Until then, we are just sheep.


Personally I'd be more concerned sending Johnny and Susie (especially Johnny) off to Sunday School with Father Edward. Know what I mean?

Less acrimony and more trust. Otherwise we continue to spiral out of control. Not everything the other side says is an insidious plot to warp minds.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby aoxo1 » Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:12 am

Cease wrote:As a former student, I don't like the precident being set for a scheduled gathering around the TV every year. This speach works as a learning tool if a school's History or Social Sciences teacher wants to incorporate it into their lesson plans. If so, they needs to committ to showing the speech every year moving forward.


Something just funny about that.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:31 am

aoxo1 wrote:
Cease wrote: As a former student, I don't like the precident being set for a scheduled gathering around the TV every year. This speach works as a learning tool if a school's History or Social Sciences teacher wants to incorporate it into their lesson plans. If so, they needs to committ to showing the speech every year moving forward.


Something just funny about that.


Also funny.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby aoxo1 » Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:43 am

Erie Warrior wrote:
aoxo1 wrote:
Cease wrote: As a former student, I don't like the precident being set for a scheduled gathering around the TV every year. This speach works as a learning tool if a school's History or Social Sciences teacher wants to incorporate it into their lesson plans. If so, they needs to committ to showing the speech every year moving forward.


Something just funny about that.


Also funny.


Well, I generally don't like going that route as I produce more than my share of typos, but if we're going to do it...
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby Cease » Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:46 am

aoxo1 wrote:
Erie Warrior wrote:
aoxo1 wrote:
Cease wrote: As a former student, I don't like the precident being set for a scheduled gathering around the TV every year. This speach works as a learning tool if a school's History or Social Sciences teacher wants to incorporate it into their lesson plans. If so, they needs to committ to showing the speech every year moving forward.


Something just funny about that.


Also funny.


Well, I generally don't like going that route as I produce more than my share of typos, but if we're going to do it...


OK, OK, call off the grammar and typo dogs! You are giving me a complex.

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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:22 am

Cease wrote:
OK, OK, call off the grammar and typo dogs! You are giving me a complex.

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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:01 pm

exiledbuckeye wrote:And jeez, here's an idea, parents: let your kid listen to what the president has to say. Respect the office.


I'm sorry Exiled, after the last eight years of running down President Bush in the most vile ways imaginable, the left has lost the prerogative to lecture anyone about "respecting the office."
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby exiledbuckeye » Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:23 pm

HermanFontenot wrote:
exiledbuckeye wrote:And jeez, here's an idea, parents: let your kid listen to what the president has to say. Respect the office.


I'm sorry Exiled, after the last eight years of running down President Bush in the most vile ways imaginable, the left has lost the prerogative to lecture anyone about "respecting the office."


Not that I was on the boards at the time, but I have consistently been one of the people knocking the left and the right on their bullshit in that respect. I suppose you can keep painting me as a far leftist, if you want.

Either way, the political games are ridiculous. Because Bush was treated badly we should just continue the same reprehensible behavior as the status quo? No. The right needs to get over it. The left needs to get over it. It's time for politicians and the general public to act like fucking grownups.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:44 pm

You won't hear me say anything about respecting the office. I kicked Bush hard and repeatedly, I kicked him long before he went down, and long after. He was an awful President. He deserved everything he got. Fuck him.

People that hold their kids out of school, are the same dumbshits who think Obama is a Kenyan Muslim. They're morons, plain and simple. They will do stupid things to get attention, it's their nature, just like Code Pink on the Left.. They pulled of those whole crybaby temper tantrums know as "Tea Parties'. Which was really funny, I laughed at their funny signs and slogans. What the right has to say about Obama's speech is nothing but dull noise, it means nothing.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:53 pm

Pup wrote:So we do not trust the President of the United States to talk to school kids without an advanced copy of what he is going to say? Really? Christ.

Are people worried he is going to convince them to convince their parents to vote for him again? Cuz the parents are stupid enough to be convinced by their elementary school children? He was going to pass along some sort of agenda the kids could jedi mind trick their parents into following?

Stop it. Didn't vote for him. But to think his speech to young kids would somehow be harmful to them? Get. The. F. Out.

Again. When 90% of the country figures out that 90% of politicians are 100% full of shit and the media is no longer the driving force behind elections and the way people think, we will have a shot at being The United States of America again. Until then, we are just sheep.

Pup reread your post, then think about it.

It is plainly obvious you were probably unaware of the stuff released before the speech, stuff like guidelines and lesson plans, that had plenty of material that had little to do with a speech on education and the normal stuff you'd expect to see in a speech to school kids. Questions posed to the students like "Why is it important to listen to what the president says"..."Why is it important to listen to your politicians"....are you freaking kidding me. How ridiculous a notion, and you don't see that, get the F out.

You then go on to correctly describe just how full of shit politicians are in the same post that you just above it said we "should" trust the president, implying that we trust him just b/c he is the president?

Makes no sense.

Like I said to Erie, can I speak to your kids?
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby jack_tors » Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:04 pm

exiledbuckeye wrote:
HermanFontenot wrote:
exiledbuckeye wrote:And jeez, here's an idea, parents: let your kid listen to what the president has to say. Respect the office.


I'm sorry Exiled, after the last eight years of running down President Bush in the most vile ways imaginable, the left has lost the prerogative to lecture anyone about "respecting the office."


Not that I was on the boards at the time, but I have consistently been one of the people knocking the left and the right on their bullshit in that respect. I suppose you can keep painting me as a far leftist, if you want.

Either way, the political games are ridiculous. Because Bush was treated badly we should just continue the same reprehensible behavior as the status quo? No. The right needs to get over it. The left needs to get over it. It's time for politicians and the general public to act like fucking grownups.


+1

Everyone needs to grow up and look at the issues. These are serious times and they call for serious debates, on both sides of the aisle, no matter what your political affiliation. You dont have to like the President as a man but you respect the office in the sense that he is the head of the executive branch and was put there by the will of the voters (please, lets not rehash election results/arguments). I disliked Bush greatly but he was the leader and I had to deal with it until the next election. Every sane American (perhaps an oxymoron) did the same.

There was NO reason to keep your kids home and not listen to the President. I hated Bush but would have said the same thing. I am a big proponent of listening to what someone says and seeing what someone does before making a decision on them. Call me old fashioned this way. No way was this guy going to say anything controversial. He has a microscope on everything he does, a microphone everywhere he speaks, and his approval ratings continue to fall. Does anyone really think he would have had some overly political, slanted recruitment speech to the children of this nation and had ANY opportunity to pass meaningful legislature? Hell no, everyone, regardless of party, would have run for cover. It would have made Clinton's affair look like a 3 point decrease in approval. Health care? Yeah right. He makes that kinda speech and he couldnt pass a friggin bill to dedicate a freeway in his own home town.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:11 pm

Pulling your kids out of school says you favor politics over education. Obama's speech was only a fraction of the total school day. Instead of having your kids miss school, why not just ask the schools to let the nutjobs' kids go to the school library for quiet study? That way they can have the rest of the school day and only miss the part where Obama tells kids to worship Lenin and Mao.... Or whatever other stupid lie they can come up with.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:13 pm



There was NO reason to keep your kids home and not listen to the President. I hated Bush but would have said the same thing. I am a big proponent of listening to what someone says and seeing what someone does before making a decision on them. Call me old fashioned this way. No way was this guy going to say anything controversial. He has a microscope on everything he does, a microphone everywhere he speaks, and his approval ratings continue to fall. Does anyone really think he would have had some overly political, slanted recruitment speech to the children of this nation and had ANY opportunity to pass meaningful legislature? Hell no, everyone, regardless of party, would have run for cover. It would have made Clinton's affair look like a 3 point decrease in approval. Health care? Yeah right. He makes that kinda speech and he couldnt pass a friggin bill to dedicate a freeway in his own home town.

Correct there wasn't a reason to keep them home...but again you referring to after the fact. The issue at hand over this whole Obama speech thing was BEFORE he gave the speech, after things leaked about what the speech could be leaning toward and the lessons plans that were supposed to accompany the speech.

JFC does anybody pay attention and read stuff anymore.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby jack_tors » Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:20 pm

FUDU wrote:


There was NO reason to keep your kids home and not listen to the President. I hated Bush but would have said the same thing. I am a big proponent of listening to what someone says and seeing what someone does before making a decision on them. Call me old fashioned this way. No way was this guy going to say anything controversial. He has a microscope on everything he does, a microphone everywhere he speaks, and his approval ratings continue to fall. Does anyone really think he would have had some overly political, slanted recruitment speech to the children of this nation and had ANY opportunity to pass meaningful legislature? Hell no, everyone, regardless of party, would have run for cover. It would have made Clinton's affair look like a 3 point decrease in approval. Health care? Yeah right. He makes that kinda speech and he couldnt pass a friggin bill to dedicate a freeway in his own home town.

Correct there wasn't a reason to keep them home...but again you referring to after the fact. The issue at hand over this whole Obama speech thing was BEFORE he gave the speech, after things leaked about what the speech could be leaning toward and the lessons plans that were supposed to accompany the speech.

JFC does anybody pay attention and read stuff anymore.


Please, I followed this story from the beginning, so dont lecture me on it. Those who bought into this "story" did so on fear and the fact they werent thinking but following the words of whatever misguided lie or political pundit they follow.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:31 pm

FUDU wrote:Correct there wasn't a reason to keep them home...but again you referring to after the fact. The issue at hand over this whole Obama speech thing was BEFORE he gave the speech, after things leaked about what the speech could be leaning toward and the lessons plans that were supposed to accompany the speech.


Speculation and bullshit.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:17 pm

Erie Warrior wrote:
FUDU wrote:Correct there wasn't a reason to keep them home...but again you referring to after the fact. The issue at hand over this whole Obama speech thing was BEFORE he gave the speech, after things leaked about what the speech could be leaning toward and the lessons plans that were supposed to accompany the speech.


Speculation and bullshit.


I do love the idea that something that might have been leaked about how a speech was leaning. I bet nothing was leaked, it just another lie created and circulated by the Right. It's a simple formula:

1) Make up bullshit
2) Give said bullshit to talking heads on tv and radio
3) Have talking heads scare the base with bullshit
4) Have scared base make a big scene that involves Socialism, Nazi imagery, and indoctrination
5) Have talking heads comment on how "outraged" the common man is
6) Bullshit accepted as gospel by base, deemed the truth, and spread like a virus.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby Orenthal » Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:45 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
Erie Warrior wrote:
FUDU wrote:Correct there wasn't a reason to keep them home...but again you referring to after the fact. The issue at hand over this whole Obama speech thing was BEFORE he gave the speech, after things leaked about what the speech could be leaning toward and the lessons plans that were supposed to accompany the speech.


Speculation and bullshit.


I do love the idea that something that might have been leaked about how a speech was leaning. I bet nothing was leaked, it just another lie created and circulated by the Right. It's a simple formula:

1) Make up bullshit
2) Give said bullshit to talking heads on tv and radio
3) Have talking heads scare the base with bullshit
4) Have scared base make a big scene that involves Socialism, Nazi imagery, and indoctrination
5) Have talking heads comment on how "outraged" the common man is
6) Bullshit accepted as gospel by base, deemed the truth, and spread like a virus.


That 1 thru 6 has been the game of either side for the last 50 years... The only point I would debate is number 6, as I think the word base, should be replaced with vocal minority.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:18 pm

Erie Warrior wrote:
FUDU wrote:Correct there wasn't a reason to keep them home...but again you referring to after the fact. The issue at hand over this whole Obama speech thing was BEFORE he gave the speech, after things leaked about what the speech could be leaning toward and the lessons plans that were supposed to accompany the speech.


Speculation and bullshit.


http://www.ed.gov/teachers/how/lessons/prek-6.pdf

"Why is it important that we listen to the president and other elected officials, like the mayor, senators, members of Congress, or the Governor? Why is what they say important?

Care to revise your statements, either of you?

BTW since I downloaded the latest version of Firefox I cannot right click to access copy/paste while in a thread, anyone?
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:31 pm

FUDU wrote:
http://www.ed.gov/teachers/how/lessons/prek-6.pdf

"Why is it important that we listen to the president and other elected officials, like the mayor, senators, members of Congress, or the Governor? Why is what they say important?

Care to revise your statements, either of you?


No. That question alludes to nothing inappropriate in any speech. You don't listen to the President, or Senators or Congressmen? The first step in forming an opinion is listening to what is said on the topic. Not to mention that those people make the laws you are required to abide by. So what if they released the lesson plans first, then revised it. Why would you conclude that the speech was somehow harmful, and not allow your child to see it?

The lesson plan was written for elementary school children. It was aimed to help them identify important players in government, and discuss why the things those people say are important. It was not meant to pacify America's children into blindly following anyone.

Here's the Ohio benchmark that would align with the lesson plan:
Government
A. Identify elected leaders and authority figures in the home, school and community and explain reasons for having persons in authority.

B. Recognize and explain the importance of symbols and landmarks of the United States.

C. Explain the purposes of rules in different settings and the results of adherence to, or violation of, the rules.


Role of Government
1. Explain the major functions of local government including:
a. Promoting order and security;
b. Making laws;
c. Settling disputes;
d. Providing public services;
e. Protecting the rights of individuals.
2. Explain the structure of local governments and identify local leaders (e.g., township trustees, county commissioners, city council members or mayor).
3. Identify the location of local government buildings and explain the functions of government that are carried out there.
4. Identify goods and services provided by local government, why people need them and the source of funding (taxation).
5. Define power and authority.
6. Explain why the use of power without legitimate authority is unjust (e.g., bullying, stealing).

Citizenship Rights and Responsibilities

3. Describe the responsibilities of citizenship with emphasis on:
a. Voting;
b. Obeying laws;
c. Respecting the rights of others;
d. Being informed about current issues;
e. Paying taxes.



http://www.ode.state.oh.us/GD/Templates ... tent=72502
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby aoxo1 » Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:48 pm

FUDU wrote:
Erie Warrior wrote:
FUDU wrote:Correct there wasn't a reason to keep them home...but again you referring to after the fact. The issue at hand over this whole Obama speech thing was BEFORE he gave the speech, after things leaked about what the speech could be leaning toward and the lessons plans that were supposed to accompany the speech.


Speculation and bullshit.


http://www.ed.gov/teachers/how/lessons/prek-6.pdf

"Why is it important that we listen to the president and other elected officials, like the mayor, senators, members of Congress, or the Governor? Why is what they say important?

Care to revise your statements, either of you?

BTW since I downloaded the latest version of Firefox I cannot right click to access copy/paste while in a thread, anyone?


Seriously. We should be teaching our children that paying attention to the political process and what is going on in Washington is FOR LOSERS. That way, our democracy will flourish!
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:51 pm

Erie Warrior wrote:
FUDU wrote:
http://www.ed.gov/teachers/how/lessons/prek-6.pdf

"Why is it important that we listen to the president and other elected officials, like the mayor, senators, members of Congress, or the Governor? Why is what they say important?

Care to revise your statements, either of you?


No. That question alludes to nothing inappropriate in any speech. You don't listen to the President, or Senators or Congressmen? The first step in forming an opinion is listening to what is said on the topic. Not to mention that those people make the laws you are required to abide by. So what if they released the lesson plans first, then revised it. Why would you conclude that the speech was somehow harmful, and not allow your child to see it?



Did you not read what I just posted?

That was for K-6, not for 8th, 9th or 10th graders.

Why on God's green Earth would the president feel compelled to tell an 8 yr old school kid that it is important that they listen to the president and politicians in general? It didn't read IF it was important to listen to the POTUS, it read WHY is it...

An 8 yr old? 8 yr olds need to be listening to their parents, grand parents and other elders of authority in their immediate lives, cops as well when a cop is needed.

First off why is it important an 8 yr old listens to the president, please tell me?

Second, and this is often directly relevant to this forum, we as a adults often criticize politicians in general. We call them bullshitters, call their actions and lack of actions unacceptable etc...yet now all of sudden we stand pat by their sides and proclaim them as people that are important to listen to, particularly for kids the age of 8.

Makes absolutely zero sense.

Add to the fact people bitch and moan every freakin day that parents are not involved in their children's lives enough and do not pay attention to where their kids are and who they are with and being influence by...and when some parents take interest in this recent Obama thing people flip out.

That is called retarded.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:56 pm

FUDU wrote:
Why on God's green Earth would the president feel compelled to tell an 8 yr old school kid that it is important that they listen to the president and politicians in general? It didn't read IF it was important to listen to the POTUS, it read WHY is it...

An 8 yr old? 8 yr olds need to be listening to their parents, grand parents and other elders of authority in their immediate lives, cops as well when a cop is needed.

First off why is it important an 8 yr old listens to the president, please tell me?

Second, and this is often directly relevant to this forum, we as a adults often criticize politicians in general. We call them bullshitters, call their actions and lack of actions unacceptable etc...yet now all of sudden we stand pat by their sides and proclaim them as people that are important to listen to, particularly for kids the age of 8.

Makes absolutely zero sense.

Add to the fact people bitch and moan every freakin day that parents are not involved in their children's lives enough and do not pay attention to where their kids are and who they are with and being influence by...and when some parents take interest in this recent Obama thing people flip out.

That is called retarded.


State standards, most likely national as well. Thank you NCLB. I linked the Ohio Social Studies standards up thread.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:00 pm

Worrying about an annual address seems trite to me when you consider what some teachers might be teaching and what effect their views have on our kids.

That's not a put down of teachers. 30% of my friends are teachers. Which is why I'm worried. ;-) ;) :wink:

Honestly don't see what the big deal is. If you're not discussing these issues with your kids and working through what they hear and what they do all day then good luck going at it by preventing them from being exposed to everything you find distasteful.

And no Donny, you're not talking to my kids either. Not sure what that's all about because it comes off as condescending. Pup has a child, many people whose views differ from yours have kids. I have no issues with my kids hearing the address in whatever form it was given. Because if it would have been full of things you allege were to be run they'd have actually lost a lot of respect for the man who gave the speech after we had talked about it and I'd have gotten finished. Though it may not last much longer, my kids look to me for guidance and understanding and as interpreter. Right now I hold sway over Obama or Bush or anyone else in their eyes.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:03 pm

Erie Warrior wrote:
FUDU wrote:
Why on God's green Earth would the president feel compelled to tell an 8 yr old school kid that it is important that they listen to the president and politicians in general? It didn't read IF it was important to listen to the POTUS, it read WHY is it...

An 8 yr old? 8 yr olds need to be listening to their parents, grand parents and other elders of authority in their immediate lives, cops as well when a cop is needed.

First off why is it important an 8 yr old listens to the president, please tell me?

Second, and this is often directly relevant to this forum, we as a adults often criticize politicians in general. We call them bullshitters, call their actions and lack of actions unacceptable etc...yet now all of sudden we stand pat by their sides and proclaim them as people that are important to listen to, particularly for kids the age of 8.

Makes absolutely zero sense.

Add to the fact people bitch and moan every freakin day that parents are not involved in their children's lives enough and do not pay attention to where their kids are and who they are with and being influence by...and when some parents take interest in this recent Obama thing people flip out.

That is called retarded.


State standards, most likely national as well. Thank you NCLB. I linked the Ohio Social Studies standards up thread.

It is not a state standard to tell an 8 yr old that it is important to listen to the president and politicians, nor should it ever be made a standard at any level.

The rest of the stuff is pretty straight forward standard stuff that 99.99% of parents have no qualms about. It is stuff that gets taught in schools regardless of a speech from the POTUS.

You are obviously missing the point, which is about the FACT that the uproar was BEFORE the speech and it was about the subjective topics on the guidelines and lesson plans.

After the speech very few people in opposition before hand are concerned b/c the speech was pretty much status quo for a president speaking to non adults.
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Re: Obama's Ed. Speech

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:11 pm

Peeker643 wrote:Worrying about an annual address seems trite to me when you consider what some teachers might be teaching and what effect their views have on our kids.

That's not a put down of teachers. 30% of my friends are teachers. Which is why I'm worried. ;-) ;) :wink:

Honestly don't see what the big deal is. If you're not discussing these issues with your kids and working through what they hear and what they do all day then good luck going at it by preventing them from being exposed to everything you find distasteful.

And no Donny, you're not talking to my kids either. Not sure what that's all about because it comes off as condescending. Pup has a child, many people whose views differ from yours have kids. I have no issues with my kids hearing the address in whatever form it was given. Because if it would have been full of things you allege were to be run they'd have actually lost a lot of respect for the man who gave the speech after we had talked about it and I'd have gotten finished. Though it may not last much longer, my kids look to me for guidance and understanding and as interpreter. Right now I hold sway over Obama or Bush or anyone else in their eyes.

Agreed.

Parents should be concerned on a daily basis what goes on in the classroom, view points/ actions of a little old teacher can impact children in countless ways.

That is the point, regardless of who the person is, Obama, the Pope or Michael Jeffery Jordan, parents should always be aware and concerned about what people are saying to their children. IOW the president is not off limits in regards to being aware and concerned. but for some reason a lot of people cannot handle parents being concerned in this instance. :wha?:

You holding sway over all others is exactly the way it should be. It is your right as a parent to decide if it is a good thing or not for you children to hear stuff you or they might not like or be ready for, just as it is the right of other parents to question what speaker is going to say to their children, even before hand.
Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect.
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