Ted Kennedy Dies

[Mr. MacPhisto]

Not unexpected.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/26/ ... index.html

Thoughts and prayers are with the Kennedy family. I may not have cared for Kennedy's politics, but I'd hoped for his recovery. Ted Kennedy did much good for others in his life and I'm amazed that he was able to hold it together after three of his brothers died too young tragically. There's been a lot of bad things that have happened to the Kennedy family and Teddy did manage to hold it together.

This is truly the end of an era, the passing of a giant in politics and the last link to the fabled Camelot.

RIP Teddy. I hope right now you are enjoying a joyful reunion with Joe, Jack, and Bobby.

[hermanfontenot]

Ted Kennedy did much good for others in his life

Spare me.

I'll avoid saying anything unpleasant out of respect for the dead, but this is not a man we should be lionizing. I'll just leave it at that.

[British_Pharaoh]

Not unexpected.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/26/ ... index.html

Thoughts and prayers are with the Kennedy family. I may not have cared for Kennedy's politics, but I'd hoped for his recovery. Ted Kennedy did much good for others in his life and I'm amazed that he was able to hold it together after three of his brothers died too young tragically. There's been a lot of bad things that have happened to the Kennedy family and Teddy did manage to hold it together.

This is truly the end of an era, the passing of a giant in politics and the last link to the fabled Camelot.

RIP Teddy. I hope right now you are enjoying a joyful reunion with Joe, Jack, and Bobby.

I believe only one of the sisters is still alive as well

sad news
the Kennedy era is one of my favourite historical topics

[jack_tors]

I offer his family and friends condolenscenes on their loss. Losing a loved one is never easy and I hope they find peace quickly.

Since the man has just passed, I wont go into a lengthy debate on his legacy. All I will say is that I have always had a hard time looking at him with any real respect after reading about the Chappaquiddick incident.

[peeker643]

The good news is the scotch that's still in his system will save them the embalming fluid required to pickle him for the next four days or so until he's in the ground and the decomposition can take its course.

He's a piece of shit. Anything he ever did for anyone was done with what he could get out of the deal in his mind. Never had to be accountable for a life lost at his hands and was the picture of money and nepotism making a career. The Kennedy family were pigs with lipstick.

The fewer that remain the better for mankind.

[jfiling]

Fuck Kennedy's family, and fuck anyone who considers themselves his "friend". The man was a self-entitled, self-righteous fuck who deserves an eternal piss stream on his grave. Everything he ever did in life was for himself, no matter how many other lives he fucked in the the process. I wish there was a hell specifically for people like Teddy.

[stonepm]

I'm with Peeker and jfiling on this one. "The greatest Senator of our time" ??? Gimme a break, the man was a piece of shit of epic proportions. I have more respect for Ted Bundy than I do Ted Kennedy*, at least he admitted to what he did.

*not really true

[skatingtripods]

So what? Murderers die everyday.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Kennedy embodied everything I hate about politicians. A Lifer, with no goals but to stay in power. A criminal that did not face the same justice I would. A man that lived off other peoples' legacy. The righties' harsh words here do not bother me, when Cheney and Bush go, I will say much worse.

[jamesownsdet]

Ted Kennedy did much good for others in his life

Spare me.

I'll avoid saying anything unpleasant out of respect for the dead, but this is not a man we should be lionizing. I'll just leave it at that.

+1

[OldDawg]

Kennedy embodied everything I hate about politicians.

Would that include this dichotomy of views:

a) When Mass Sen. John Kerry was running for president, the Mass. governor was a republican (Romney). State law had it that if a senate seat was vacated, the governor would select a replacement (see Rod Blagojevich and Obama). Since Mitt was a Republican, Teddy successfully lobbied to change state law so that if Kerry were elected, the Governor could not pick his replacement. I believe the seat would remain vacant until the next election. Teddy wanted to make sure the Republican governor wouldn't put a republican in Kerry's seat. This change in law Kennedy pioneered is still in effect.

Flash forward to recent months...

b) Teddy foreseeing his upcoming demise had petitioned Mass leaders to revoke this same law he had earlier politicked for ... to change it to the way it was. Why the 180??? Now he wanted the current Democratic governor to select a democratic replacement for him upon his passing. That way the seat would not remain vacant and the democrats could keep a stronghold with a super majority to push through Obama's policies.

Hey, that's not hypocritical. Teddy always just wanting to do the right thing, err, the "left" thing. Keeping it political all the way to the end.

If it weren't for Chapa-get-drunk-&-drive-off-the-road-into-a-lake-&-drown-your-female-misstress-&-don't-call-cops-till-morning-aquidick, he probably would have become president (or martyred trying). As it was, if he didn't have the name Kennedy, his political career would have been done right then and there (as it should have at the time).

[hermanfontenot]

I like how Mr. Republican MacPhisto started off this thread with the boilerplate hagiography, and it's been a bi-partisan slam-fest ever since. Nice, nice.

BTW, as long as we're going over Teddy's stellar record, let's not forget the Immigration Act of 1965. MS-13 says "Gracias, Senor Kennedy."

[OldDawg]

I like how Mr. Republican MacPhisto started off this thread with the boilerplate hagiography, and it's been a bi-partisan slam-fest ever since. Nice, nice.

BTW, as long as we're going over Teddy's stellar record, let's not forget the Immigration Act of 1965. MS-13 says "Gracias, Senor Kennedy."

I feel a little bad about not respecting the deceased. But I would rather respect the living whilst they were alive. Being respected because you died is one thing, being respected for how you lived is quite another.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Kennedy embodied everything I hate about politicians.

Would that include this dichotomy of views:

a) When Mass Sen. John Kerry was running for president, the Mass. governor was a republican (Romney). State law had it that if a senate seat was vacated, the governor would select a replacement (see Rod Blagojevich and Obama). Since Mitt was a Republican, Teddy successfully lobbied to change state law so that if Kerry were elected, the Governor could not pick his replacement. I believe the seat would remain vacant until the next election. Teddy wanted to make sure the Republican governor wouldn't put a republican in Kerry's seat. This change in law Kennedy pioneered is still in effect.


Flash forward to recent months...

b) Teddy foreseeing his upcoming demise had petitioned Mass leaders to revoke this same law he had earlier politicked for ... to change it to the way it was. Why the 180??? Now he wanted the current Democratic governor to select a democratic replacement for him upon his passing. That way the seat would not remain vacant and the democrats could keep a stronghold with a super majority to push through Obama's policies.

No, that doesn't really bother me too much. Politicians have been changing the rules to suit their own foul ends since the start. Sure it's sleazy, but that's their nature. He was partisan who loved power. You show me an honest politician, i'll show you a corpse

If it weren't for Chapa-get-drunk-&-drive-off-the-road-into-a-lake-&-drown-your-female-misstress-&-don't-call-cops-till-morning-aquidick, he probably would have become president (or martyred trying). As it was, if he didn't have the name Kennedy, his political career would have been done right then and there (as it should have at the time).

This is what makes me loathe Ted more than anything. Had I, or any other Joe Schmoe done what he did, we'd be in jail for decades. He lived of the name off Jack and Robert, their lives (and deaths) and last names gave him a seat in power for life. I will not follow party lines and glorify a man I feel was a degenerate and a criminal. I didn't respect him while he lived, That doesn't change because he died.

[Ziner]

I like how Mr. Republican MacPhisto started off this thread with the boilerplate hagiography, and it's been a bi-partisan slam-fest ever since. Nice, nice.

BTW, as long as we're going over Teddy's stellar record, let's not forget the Immigration Act of 1965. MS-13 says "Gracias, Senor Kennedy."

I feel a little bad about not respecting the deceased. But I would rather respect the living whilst they were alive. Being respected because you died is one thing, being respected for how you lived is quite another.

No reason to feel bad at all about not respecting Kennedy. Save your compassion for those who deserve it.

Kennedy was a slimeball, I think that opinion has been established without debate thus far. If there isnt one person who gives a shit to defend him from the comments said on here, it just furthers the point that he didnt live a life worth respecting. Self-serving is no way to go through life, at least not if you want to be respected.

[exiledbuckeye]

I like how Mr. Republican MacPhisto started off this thread with the boilerplate hagiography, and it's been a bi-partisan slam-fest ever since. Nice, nice.

BTW, as long as we're going over Teddy's stellar record, let's not forget the Immigration Act of 1965. MS-13 says "Gracias, Senor Kennedy."

I feel a little bad about not respecting the deceased. But I would rather respect the living whilst they were alive. Being respected because you died is one thing, being respected for how you lived is quite another.

No reason to feel bad at all about not respecting Kennedy. Save your compassion for those who deserve it.

Kennedy was a slimeball, I think that opinion has been established without debate thus far. If there isnt one person who gives a shit to defend him from the comments said on here, it just furthers the point that he didnt live a life worth respecting. Self-serving is no way to go through life, at least not if you want to be respected.

I haven't posted to "defend" him because I'm not going to change anyone's beliefs about the man. I will say that regardless of his intentions, he got some very important things done while he was a Senator.

Also, as referenced above (OldDawg, I think) - Kennedy didn't ask to have the law changed back to exactly what it was. He asked them to change it to allow the governor to appoint a temporary seat holder (who would have to pledge not to run in the special election to fill the seat permanently) to represent the state until the permanent seat holder was elected. The timing on the original law change was obvious, though I would argue that it's obviously more democratic to elect a new seat holder than to have a governor appoint one. Massachusetts is certainly not the only state that's made this change recently.

[OldDawg]

Kennedy didn't ask to have the law changed back to exactly what it was. He asked them to change it to allow the governor to appoint a temporary seat holder (who would have to pledge not to run in the special election to fill the seat permanently) to represent the state until the permanent seat holder was elected. The timing on the original law change was obvious, though I would argue that it's obviously more democratic to elect a new seat holder than to have a governor appoint one. Massachusetts is certainly not the only state that's made this change recently.

Semantics. OK, he wanted the current democratic governor to appoint his "temporary" replacement then. He would not want the seat being temporarily filled if the governor were a republican. If he was so worried about filling the seat solely to "represent the state" (as you suggest), he would never have lobbied for the change when Kerry ran. It was OK for the seat to be vacant if the governor was a Republican. Now that the gov is a democrat, we must make sure the state is fully represented in the senate. Please. This has to do solely with party politics.

[aoxo1]

I think you guys are mischaracterizing Kennedy's political career. Did he deserve to go to jail? Well, yeah, probably. Was he a power hungry politician with no sense of morals who did craven things to hold onto power his entire career and was blatantly self serving?

No. Actually, he was at the forefront of nearly all major acts to expand civil rights and health care access. What exactly is self serving about "laws addressing immigration, cancer research, health insurance, apartheid, disability discrimination, AIDS care, civil rights, mental health benefits, children's health insurance, education and volunteering."? Or about a lifelong quest for universal health care?

Separating out his political accomplishments from Chappaquidick is difficult, and any description of him HAS to include it, but purely from a legislative standpoint he was an extremely effective senator, very capable of forming coalitions across the aisle, and his major accomplishments were FAR from self serving, but instead sought to aid the weakest among us.

I realize most of the people here are on the other side of the ideological spectrum and thus probably disagree with his ideology, but you guys should be able to acknowledge he did work, more or less, for what he really believed in.

[hermanfontenot]

http://www.washtimes.com/news/2006/oct/27/20061027-084248-4386r/

In his new book, "The Crusader: Ronald Reagan and the Fall of Communism," Grove City College professor Paul Kengor sheds light on a letter written by KGB head Viktor Chebrikov to Soviet leader Yuri Andropov. The letter is dated May 14, 1983, right as the debate was heating up over Mr. Reagan's proposed deployment of intermediate-range nuclear weapons in Western Europe to counter the Soviets' medium-range rockets in Eastern Europe.

Most Democrats and much of the left were universally opposed to Mr. Reagan's plan, which they argued would lead to nuclear war. Heading the list of critics was Mr. Kennedy, who had, according to the Soviet letter, sent former Sen. John V. Tunney to meet with Kremlin leaders. Chebrikov writes that Mr. Kennedy "charged Tunney to convey the following message, through confidential contacts, to... Andropov."

According to the letter, Mr. Kennedy was concerned with "Reagan's belligerence," which he felt was in part the result of the president's popularity. "The only real threats to Reagan are problems of war and peace and Soviet-American relations," wrote Chebrikov, relaying Mr. Tunney's message. "These issues, according to [Mr. Kennedy], will without a doubt become the most important of the [1984] election campaign."

The letter goes on to say how Mr. Kennedy felt that the Soviets' peaceful intentions were being "quoted out of context, silenced or groundlessly and whimsically discounted." Conversely, Mr. Reagan "has the capabilities to counter any propaganda." In other words, if the letter is to be believed, Mr. Kennedy felt his own president was the real aggressor.

Mr. Kennedy had two proposals for Andropov, according to Chebrikov. First, he asked for a meeting later that summer in order "to arm Soviet officials with explanations regarding problems of nuclear disarmament so they may be better prepared and more convincing during appearances in the USA." Second, that "Kennedy believes that in order to influence Americans it would be important to organize ... televised interviews with [Andropov] in the USA."

If Chebrikov's account of events is accurate, it's clear Mr. Kennedy was actively engaging the Russians to influence the 1984 election. He also seems to have genuinely believed that Mr. Reagan's policies were endangering U.S.-Soviet relations and that the best solution was to get Mr. Reagan out of office. The letter closes with Chebrikov saying that "Tunney remarked that the senator wants to run for president in 1988," possibly suggesting Mr. Kennedy had other, more selfish motives.

I don't care if people want to classify his political motives as self-serving or not. Those are semantics. To me, Ted Kennedy was little more than a traitor. Attempting to pursuade the USSR to influence American elections is tantamount to treason. The Immigration Act of 1965 was tantamount to treason.

[exiledbuckeye]

Kennedy didn't ask to have the law changed back to exactly what it was. He asked them to change it to allow the governor to appoint a temporary seat holder (who would have to pledge not to run in the special election to fill the seat permanently) to represent the state until the permanent seat holder was elected. The timing on the original law change was obvious, though I would argue that it's obviously more democratic to elect a new seat holder than to have a governor appoint one. Massachusetts is certainly not the only state that's made this change recently.

Semantics. OK, he wanted the current democratic governor to appoint his "temporary" replacement then. He would not want the seat being temporarily filled if the governor were a republican. If he was so worried about filling the seat solely to "represent the state" (as you suggest), he would never have lobbied for the change when Kerry ran. It was OK for the seat to be vacant if the governor was a Republican. Now that the gov is a democrat, we must make sure the state is fully represented in the senate. Please. This has to do solely with party politics.

Which is why I said that the timing was "obvious". That does not make it less of a good idea, in my opinion. I'd want any state that I live in to have a special election process to replace senators, not a direct appointment. Otherwise you get this: http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/s ... 031792.ece A temporary replacement lessens the cronyism aspect, regardless of which political party holds the governor's office.

The idea of filling in a temporary senator while the new one is being chosen is pretty reasonable, in my opinion. Especially if the law states that the temporary senator cannot run in the special election.

[aoxo1]

I don't care if people want to classify his political motives as self-serving or not. Those are semantics. To me, Ted Kennedy was little more than a traitor. Attempting to pursuade the USSR to influence American elections is tantamount to treason. The Immigration Act of 1965 was tantamount to treason.

I have no comment on the USSR thing, as I have never heard of it before and don't see it referenced except in respect to that book.

I AM curious about your second statement, however.

[hermanfontenot]

I AM curious about your second statement, however.

The integrity of a country lies in its population having a shared culture, shared values, shared religion, and to as much extent as possible, a shared ethnicity. Look at history and see how often polyglot societies collapsed into social strife and civil war- from late-era Rome to the Austro-Hungarian Empire to Yugoslavia. I challenge you to find one polyglot nation that proved a long-term success.

Prior to 1965 this country had that shared culture and society, based on a large white majority. We allowed immigration, but mainly from Europe, restricted to people who by culture, religion and ethnicity were easily digestible. We could turn Italians, Poles, Germans and Irish into Americans within a generation, because they wanted to be Americans, because they bought in. Yes, they had their own enclaves, their own particular customs, but those didn't override the basic values and ethncity that allowed them to become full-fledged citizens of the Republic.

The Immigration Act has led to the destruction of the majority in this country. Our borders have been flooded by people who don't buy in, who have no intention of buying in. This country has been balkanized. Again, look back at history and see how well that works out. Destroy the productive majority, the country soon follows. That's Ted Kennedy's real legacy.

[FUDU]

I have not read the entire thread, nor will I, but have this to add.

Ted Kennedy was arguably the most over rated politician ever. I am not saying he didn't ever accomplish anything or even anything good, but he failed 3 times as many times and championed so many brutally pathetic and out right ridiculous causes and pieces of legislation. His career survived for one reason and one reason only, his name.

I won't trample on his grave but the worst part about his passing for this country is the display we are about to witness from congress (particularly his party) in trying to push through this HC reform crap (even though most of America is against it as it stands right now). Congress will do so under the guise of getting it done for Teddy since he was instrumental in all this crap from the start. These jackass politicians are going to play the sympathy card to get this through instead of letting this HC reform get through on its own merit.

[aoxo1]

I AM curious about your second statement, however.

The integrity of a country lies in its population having a shared culture, shared values, shared religion, and to as much extent as possible, a shared ethnicity. Look at history and see how often polyglot societies collapsed into social strife and civil war- from late-era Rome to the Austro-Hungarian Empire to Yugoslavia. I challenge you to find one polyglot nation that proved a long-term success.

Prior to 1965 this country had that shared culture and society, based on a large white majority. We allowed immigration, but mainly from Europe, restricted to people who by culture, religion and ethnicity were easily digestible. We could turn Italians, Poles, Germans and Irish into Americans within a generation, because they wanted to be Americans, because they bought in. Yes, they had their own enclaves, their own particular customs, but those didn't override the basic values and ethncity that allowed them to become full-fledged citizens of the Republic.

The Immigration Act has led to the destruction of the majority in this country. Our borders have been flooded by people who don't buy in, who have no intention of buying in. This country has been balkanized. Again, look back at history and see how well that works out. Destroy the productive majority, the country soon follows. That's Ted Kennedy's real legacy.

Go to hell.

People said that about every wave of immigration in American history and history has rightly shown them to be bigoted jackasses.

[hermanfontenot]

Go to hell.

People said that about every wave of immigration in American history and history has rightly shown them to be bigoted jackasses.

You just keep hammering that blue pill, Aoxo. Whatever makes you feel good.

[FUDU]

I AM curious about your second statement, however.

The integrity of a country lies in its population having a shared culture, shared values, shared religion, and to as much extent as possible, a shared ethnicity. Look at history and see how often polyglot societies collapsed into social strife and civil war- from late-era Rome to the Austro-Hungarian Empire to Yugoslavia. I challenge you to find one polyglot nation that proved a long-term success.

Prior to 1965 this country had that shared culture and society, based on a large white majority. We allowed immigration, but mainly from Europe, restricted to people who by culture, religion and ethnicity were easily digestible. We could turn Italians, Poles, Germans and Irish into Americans within a generation, because they wanted to be Americans, because they bought in. Yes, they had their own enclaves, their own particular customs, but those didn't override the basic values and ethncity that allowed them to become full-fledged citizens of the Republic.

The Immigration Act has led to the destruction of the majority in this country. Our borders have been flooded by people who don't buy in, who have no intention of buying in. This country has been balkanized. Again, look back at history and see how well that works out. Destroy the productive majority, the country soon follows. That's Ted Kennedy's real legacy.

Truer words may have never been spoken Herm.

Immigration today is nothing, and I mean nothing like the intended immigration this country GRANTED to the rest of the world in our nation's youth. Very few people come to this country with hopes of improving it and becoming a part of it, they come for the free ride or for other selfish reasons.

One of the best quotes of all time is from Teddy Roosevelt:

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Immigration is designed to serve the very needs of the nation, not the wants of the world.

America is for Americans first & foremost. Immigration is not a "right" bestowed upon anybody and everybody who wants to come to America. Immigration is a privilege that we Americans alone decide to grant.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Fuck Kennedy's family, and fuck anyone who considers themselves his "friend". The man was a self-entitled, self-righteous fuck who deserves an eternal piss stream on his grave. Everything he ever did in life was for himself, no matter how many other lives he fucked in the the process. I wish there was a hell specifically for people like Teddy.

Fuckin-aye!

The epitome of sloth and everything that is wrong with politics. Fuck that miserable pile of wasted flesh.

77 fucking years old and not worth the oxygen he sucked. A self-righteous, silver-spoon-fed piece of shit that would have amounted to absofuckinglutely nothing if not for his name.

Who the fuck really cares?

The real problem is the motherfucking politicians have such good health care for themselves they never fucking die young. Old wore out alzheimer cock sucking bastards...esp that fucking KKKlansman, Robert Fucking Byrd.

I've been in that fuckers office and one walk down the hallways and a look at the countless photos and BS honors, its easily apparent that therein lies a fucking leech who has been in office way too fucking long

What we need are more heart attacks in the capitol building. My suggesttion is mandatory IRS audit for all politicians before they ever take office.

Fuckers....

Revolucion!!!!!

[FUDU]

Separating out his political accomplishments from Chappaquidick is difficult, and any description of him HAS to include it, but purely from a legislative standpoint he was an extremely effective senator, very capable of forming coalitions across the aisle, and his major accomplishments were FAR from self serving, but instead sought to aid the weakest among us.

I realize most of the people here are on the other side of the ideological spectrum and thus probably disagree with his ideology, but you guys should be able to acknowledge he did work, more or less, for what he really believed in.

aoxo I am not going to get into every little detail of what he was involved in while in office but I would like to point out there is a difference between being efficient and effective at something in regards to overall good being accomplished. Just b/c he got some legislative things accomplished as a senator doesn't equate to those things being necessarily a good thing. You can be good and efficient at something but the effectiveness of your efforts can still be strongly questioned, especially in the arena of political representation. Universal/HC reform is one example.

IOW take satanic worship. One could be very good and efficient at worshiping the dark lord, but in the big scheme of things how effective is it for them to be practicing such a form of worship? Meanwhile your everyday run of the mill Catholic, that drinks too much swears too much and goes to mass 4 times a year, while not being a good efficient practicing Catholic is still more effective compared to the best of the best in worshiping satan.

Yeah Kennedy may have got this passed or that passed but just what was the impact of so many of the things the guy did in office, plenty of room for debate and criticism there. Herm brings up one good example.