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by furls » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:00 pm
by swerb » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:18 pm
by FUDU » Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:01 pm
by leadpipe » Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:33 am
by furls » Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:09 pm
by Mr. MacPhisto » Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:44 pm
Furls wrote:It just underscores what I have been saying about the Big East all along, they just aren't that good. I really don't care what their bowl record was last year (where they basically loaded up on MTSU's).There are some programs that are getting better in the Big East (as Mac pointed out) like USF and Cincy (either of whom may actually be the best team in the conference), but at the top, they are grossly overrated.
by pup » Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:58 pm
by Mr. MacPhisto » Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:21 pm
Pup wrote:I wish some company in C-Town would bid ungodly $$$$$$ to buy a non-BCS bowl game and schedule an SEC #2 vs Big10 #2 game, just to see what happens.
by pup » Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:42 pm
Mr. MacPhisto wrote:Pup wrote:I wish some company in C-Town would bid ungodly $$$$$$ to buy a non-BCS bowl game and schedule an SEC #2 vs Big10 #2 game, just to see what happens.Never going to happen and partially because many of the Big Ten schools wouldn't want it. The bowl games do mean something, but they are a reward for a good season. Part of the reward is enjoying the area where the bowl is and the climate does have something to do with that. Here in Tampa the teams visit the beaches, go to Busch Gardens, the Aquarium, Ybor City, and may make a trip to the Orlando area for Disney World, Sea World, or Universal. Same goes for the fans of those teams. The theme parks are packed in with visitors from Big Ten cities in Tampa and Orlando. Last year at Busch Gardens' New Years' Eve celebrations there were thousands of Penn State and Tennessee fans all over. As much as I love Cleveland, the experience for the fans and the players wouldn't be the same on December 31.You do have a point, brute force doesn't do as well against speed when field conditions are good.
by FUDU » Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:42 pm
but I find the Big Ten very unimpressive at this point. I think the conference is too obsessed with its history and how it has won in the past to adapt and become more modern
by FUDU » Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:46 pm
The problem for the Buckeyes/scUM/Wisconsin is they understand all of that and if they want to be in the discussion for National Titles, they need to recruit more speed and less power.
by pup » Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:05 pm
FUDU wrote:The problem for the Buckeyes/scUM/Wisconsin is they understand all of that and if they want to be in the discussion for National Titles, they need to recruit more speed and less power. I agree for the most part.You have to remember though, in order to get to the BCS or the NC game you have to get through or out of your conference, and like you already said, you aren't gong to do that in late October early November with all speed and no power. IMO th better Big Ten schools have done a good job of keeping that balance.Shit let's not forget the Cooper years, he had arguably the most talented team in the nation 4 or 5 different years throughout the mid to late 90's. Power and speed, not Ginn speed but not many have that even every other year.
The problem for the Buckeyes/scUM/Wisconsin is they understand all of that and if they want to be in the discussion for National Titles, they need to recruit more speed and less power. But then the Purdues/PSU/Iowa that are really only going to have a shot at something every few years, they will continue to build around power and defenses giving them the advantage in the shitty weather games. It is a bad spot to be in.
by furls » Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:35 pm
by Mr. MacPhisto » Sun Sep 09, 2007 2:27 am
Furls wrote:Mac, you are of course entitled to whatever opinion you chose based on whatever criteria you like. I know my biases. I know more about Big Ten football. I follow it closer than any other conference, etc., so I know that this in some way affects every opinion I have in college football (in much the same way that the SEC homers feel that the only true football is played in the south). I will say that I think the Big East is not as good as you think, and I am sure that you are basing your opinion on your own criteria, observations, and biases. Louisville, one of the Big East's heavyweights, looked absolutely ridiculous last night. Every bit as bad as Michigan this last weekend. In the end Louisville won the game, but that does not change that they gave up 42 points and nearly 600 yards of offense to a MTSU team that SHUT DOWN by FAU last week.
The most telling thing I saw in that game last night was that the Louisville defense was not even interested in playing. Had Louisville played any of the best 8 teams in the Big Ten they would have been "handled." In the end, I am not sure that Louisville's defense ever really turned it on. It looked to me that MTSU crumbled at the end. Even in the 4th quarter MTSU was able to rip off huge gainers against a team that should have crushed them (in theory).
by furls » Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:24 am
Louisville wouldn't have quit on D like they did. They firmed it up in the second half and won.
I think the Big East is better and I'd like West Virginia or Louisville's chances against Ohio State, Wisconsin, or Penn State. In fact, I'd like USF , Rutgers, and Cincy's chances against those same Big Ten teams too.
You believe what you want, but the empirical data is starting to scream that the Big Ten is in the toilet
All of these teams have their faults, but they all have their virtues too.
Yes, they're not the same ancient ones used 20 years ago, but they're not as potent as offenses outside the conference because there is still a lack of speed in the Big Ten.
Now, let's be serious. Did you think USF could and would beat Auburn or did you think that Big East teams couldn't do stuff like that because Big Ten teams would have trouble doing it?
This year, the Big East is better. I don't expect you to believe it and I'm sure we won't get a chance to beat a Big Ten team in a bowl, but I'd love for us to be given the opportunity.
by FUDU » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:30 pm
Maybe, but I'd guess that OSU doesn't have a CB on the squad as good as our two best starters who may be the best in the nation.
by Mr. MacPhisto » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:42 pm
Furls wrote:I guess giving up 250 yards to MTSU in the second half is firming up on defense compared to the 300 they gave up in the first half. Touche, you made your point, and they did only give up like 3-4 plays in the second half in excess of 20 yards compared to the boatloads they gave up in the first half. Yep, much better indeed.
5 turnovers, 0 points, 67 yards of total offense against a team that is probably on par with MTSU. Not bad.
There is not a complete team in the Big Ten this year. Ohio State, insane defense, lots of question on offense. PSU, good defense, lots of questions on offense. Wisconsin, by product of a favorable schedule last year? Can they really run the ball against good teams? The list goes on. But what I have seen against of the Big East this year has me believe that they are not very good at all and that the two most complete teams are the ones that are getting no press right now and that they 3 best teams are vastly VASTLY overrated.
Ignorant statement based on stereotype. Ohio State's 3rd string running back is probably the fastest RB in the nation, and their 2nd string RB was actually MR. Football for Florida a couple of years ago. There are a lot of reasons the big ten is down this year, but it certainly is not a lack of talent, as evidenced by recent NFL drafts.
I think USF and Cincy would have a shot, but I would have picked against them to win straight up and would probably do so again, but I would have taken the points. Granted USF didnt do much with them, but Auburn still gave them five turnovers and that is worth something in a close game. I am not discrediting the USF win, but I would have to believe that in a rematch Auburn would not turn it over five times. Big Ten teams did not have trouble beating the middle of the road/second tier SEC teams last year in their bowl games, now lets see where Auburn ends up to really gain some perspective on the win.
Who knows what will happen. If the Big Ten is bad as you say, I would not be at all surprised to see the two conference champs play each other. The Big East does not get much national respect and if the Big Ten screws the pooch, then it is likely that they will put the Big Ten Champ with the Big East champ in the BCS bowl that gets last pick of teams (like last year's Wake and Louisville game). I don't see Louisville, WVU, or Rutgers getting through undefeated.
by FUDU » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:54 pm
No other state has been as dominate over that period in college football.
by Mr. MacPhisto » Sun Sep 09, 2007 1:22 pm
FUDU wrote:No other state has had their programs fall as completely off the map either, two programs that went from great to...well just blah non significance.Unreal to me how short your memory is mac.You want to pimp Florida's (the state not the school) talent so much in comparison to the Big Ten or the Big Ten states yet you forget the about the last two meetings between the best team's from each respective location.2003 OSU beats what was considered an unbeatable Miami Hurricane team and in 2007 Florida beat OSU.So it's 1-1, yet you somehow come to a conclusion that Florida dominates or is far to superior.Makes no sense.
by FUDU » Sun Sep 09, 2007 1:52 pm
It's hardly 1-1. That Miami win doesn't count as strongly as the Florida win does.
Miami and Ohio State were pretty equivalent that year as indicated by the close, OT game that is still very controversial down here.
Florida kicked the shit out of the Big Ten's baby. If anything, it's further proof of the Big Ten's decline.
by Mr. MacPhisto » Sun Sep 09, 2007 2:44 pm
FUDU wrote:Oh sheesh here we go, I should have expected something like that. Mac you have to be better than that.The Miami team was historically considered head & shoulders above Florida, Florida was a controversial choice for a NC contender going into the last 2-3 weeks of the season for god's sake.
What do you mean controversial down there? The controversy has been debunked a million times, there was pass interferences and it was called, just a tad late. Funny how people always claim they just want the right call made except when it goes against their rooting interest. Right call was made.
You want to imply that Miami loss was flukish due to a supposed controversial call but then claim the Florida beat down of OSU wasn't just as flukish? Meaning that if they played that game 10 times it would close the next 9 times. Florida won sure but if you cannot see that game and the margin of victory as flukish there is no hope for you. You're unreal sometimes, really.
Oh and BTW do you know the Big Ten's record against the SEC in the past 5-6 years?
2-1 last year in bowls.8-6 in last 5 years worth of bowls.2 NC's for Big Ten and 3 for SEC in last 10 years.5 Heisman's for Big Ten in last 15 years, 1 for SEC.The conferences are not far apart at all, but head to head in the past 5-6 years in bowls games, which supposedly mean more, Big Ten has the edge.
by furls » Sun Sep 09, 2007 3:22 pm
by FUDU » Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:55 pm
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