Dispatch: NCAA Penalties Could Be Severe

[swerb]

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sp ... tions.html

[jb]

Explains the Pellini extension....

They are linkin this to the hoops O-Brien scandle.

Part of me hopes that tOSU gets busted down and learns a lesson.

[motherscratcher]

There didn't really seem to be anything in there that we didn't already know about the allegations. The penalty will probably be harsh. Looks like we will have bowl season free this year.

[danwismar]

The best news is this statement: "The allegations are largely consistent with what the university self-reported to the NCAA...", presumed to mean that what we already know is about all there is to know...no "other shoe" to drop.

The worst news is probably the statement that OSU was found to be using ineligible players in 2010....something we knew, of course, but it also leaves little doubt that the 2010 season will be vacated (except for Sugar Bowl win)

[FUDU]

At this point the NCAA is simply using this opportunity to save face and make themselves look good in the midst of scrutiny that these stories bring to them (in large part due to themselves).

NCAA = Detective Alonzo Harris

[e0y2e3]

Uhm there is plenty of new stuff coming out:

http://deadspin.com/#!5795313/jim-tress ... fect-coach

He should quit at this point and spare the program this investigation

[danwismar]

http://bit.ly/fD9JrQ

More stuff about the emails and calls Tressel made at the above link at Dispatch.

The Deadspin piece lost all credibility with this statement:

"You know who self-reports NCAA violations? Small-time programs."

Ignorant.

[e0y2e3]

I actually found it interesting. He went out and covered for his program as hard as he could. Can't really argue that. The additionall calls, texts and emails are just bad juju though.

[danwismar]

http://bit.ly/b040Ve

Linked this once before, but...the above Dispatch article from 2009 is mostly about privacy issues invoked by OSU and other schools re: NCAA violations, but it also talks about the culture of self-reporting that Ohio State encourages in its athletic department:

"Since 2000, Ohio State has reported to the NCAA more than 375 violations -- the most of any of the 69 Football Bowl Subdivision schools that provided documents to The Dispatch through public-records requests."

(Also some good info on the Derek Morris recruitment back in '02 that I had never seen detailed elsewhere)

[FUDU]

Uhm there is plenty of new stuff coming out:

http://deadspin.com/#!5795313/jim-tress ... fect-coach

He should quit at this point and spare the program this investigation

Are you suggesting any of this goes away or is diminished if he walks away from the program? If yes then I completely disagree, it's simply too late.

[uncle junior]

Tim May is a punk. The NCAA and Sugar Bowl committee forced JT to use those guys in that game and this is the thanks he gets. If May had balls he would break that side of it.

College FB is a mess. This is so out of proportion due to the enormity of Buckeye Nation.
What page would this story be on if it were say (and no disrespect intended)...........?
Better yet you fill in the blank 'cuz it could be any one of a hundred schools.

This is so far from what O'Brien did that that thought is beyond laughable.
When bad things happen to good people time tells us the real story? i.e. Duke LaCosse.

Go Bucks!

[Kingpin74]

The best news is this statement: "The allegations are largely consistent with what the university self-reported to the NCAA...", presumed to mean that what we already know is about all there is to know...no "other shoe" to drop.

[Spin]

What are the odds the Vest will be on the sidelines in 2012?

What are the odds that Smith and Gee knew this was going on? Maybe even the ones who put the cap on it in the first place?

[peeker643]

I've said I think this gets worse before it gets gone. But I don't see much in this recent volley of media driven noise. Nothing different anyway.

If the players committed these infractions before the season then they would have been ineligible for the season (at worst). The NCAA then knew of the infractions before the Sugar Bowl and signed off on them playing.

I just don't see this latest 'news' as anything other than noise.

The heat comes when they find something else or something new with the program. And they will be looking.

I think Tressel sits out 2011 and is back for 2012 IF this is it. The NCAA knows everything that's out there now already.

I still think others knew and I also think an active FBI investigation may be given as the reason Tressel 'acted' as he did. I'm not sticking my head in the sand. This is doing the university serious damage because of the scope. I just think today's 'revelations' come up short in the 'revealing' category.

[pup]

Just go Jim.

And take TP with you.

[FUDU]

Still waiting after all these months to hear the significant pros to JT leaving the program, now, in regards to this.

The pros to the program and to the on the field performance of the football team.

[danwismar]

If the players committed these infractions before the season then they would have been ineligible for the season (at worst). The NCAA then knew of the infractions before the Sugar Bowl and signed off on them playing.

Makes it a little awkward and hypocritical for the NCAA now, doesn't it? They knew about everything in December when they cleared the Tat5 for the Sugar Bowl. Now they have to come back and say..."it was OK for you ineligible guys to play a bowl game, but we're going to vacate the 12 games you played in before that"

The heat comes when they find something else or something new with the program. And they will be looking.

They have moved on to the "response phase" of the process. The allegations are now spelled out. This is not to say the "looking" is entirely over, but this letter is akin to an indictment....here's the laundry list of what we're charging you with. OSU responds in an official hearing on 8/12, and a final decision is rendered.

I think Tressel sits out 2011 and is back for 2012 IF this is it. The NCAA knows everything that's out there now already.

My guess would be that if the NCAA decides that the current 5-game suspension is insufficient, and mandates additional penalties on Tressel, he will not continue as coach...because he may resign of his own volition. OSU admin has already said this is not a firing offense in their view, and they seem unlikely to go back on that stance, absent new information. NCAA cannot mandate his firing.

[danwismar]

Still waiting after all these months to hear the significant pros to JT leaving the program, now, in regards to this.

The pros to the program and to the on the field performance of the football team.

Haven't you heard, FUDU? It's a "dirty fucking program".

Meanwhile, Auburn is the NCAA's National Champion!

Many of the people calling for JT's head are perfectly OK with bringing in Urban Meyer, fresh from the SEC, to run the program next.

Funny.

[fairvis]

Storm clouds brewing... dread is on the horizon. Why the hell does the NCAA want to make JT the poster boy and skewer him, while they let others go with slaps on the wrist? RichRod was dirty, throughout WVU and Michigan, broke all kinds of rules, lied about it, and then got nothing, and was only fired for lack of performance... ugh.

[FUDU]

Still waiting after all these months to hear the significant pros to JT leaving the program, now, in regards to this.

The pros to the program and to the on the field performance of the football team.

Haven't you heard, FUDU? It's a "dirty fucking program".

Meanwhile, Auburn is the NCAA's National Champion!

Many of the people calling for JT's head are perfectly OK with bringing in Urban Meyer, fresh from the SEC, to run the program next.

Funny.

JT messed up, deserves the proverbial slap on the wrist or legit punishment, his character is tarnished to a degree, OSU will suffer from it no doubt. But the list of superior character guys & superior football minds is exactly how long (and remember I give JT plenty of shit about his offense every year)? I mean ya we all want the squeaky clean program and a man of principle until 7 years goes by with 1 Co-championship and a couple of bowl wins in the FDIC bowl.

Like I said Alonzo Harris, I'm just gonna sit back and eat my popcorn until I see the list, and it is a big ass bowl of popcorn.

[daddywags]

Honestly, I've never understood quite why they don't just pay these kids, admit this is professional sports, and be done with the charades. I'm having a tough time figuring out why we're paying FBI agents to investigate 20 year old college kids trading memorabilia for tats. We don't give enough taxpayer money to these colleges, we have to pay the FBI to supervise their sports programs, too? Are they trying to make sure the gamblers don't get cheated?

[pup]

If the players committed these infractions before the season then they would have been ineligible for the season (at worst). The NCAA then knew of the infractions before the Sugar Bowl and signed off on them playing.

Makes it a little awkward and hypocritical for the NCAA now, doesn't it? They knew about everything in December when they cleared the Tat5 for the Sugar Bowl. Now they have to come back and say..."it was OK for you ineligible guys to play a bowl game, but we're going to vacate the 12 games you played in before that"

They are not vacating the season because dudes sold their shit. When they were allowed to play in the bowl game, nobody else knew Tress knew the entire time and was covering it up. They are vacating the season for the cover up.

[StewieG]

Honestly, I've never understood quite why they don't just pay these kids, admit this is professional sports, and be done with the charades. I'm having a tough time figuring out why we're paying FBI agents to investigate 20 year old college kids trading memorabilia for tats. We don't give enough taxpayer money to these colleges, we have to pay the FBI to supervise their sports programs, too? Are they trying to make sure the gamblers don't get cheated?

Allowing these schools to pay kids opens up a major pandora's box. Is it only D1 schools that can pay their kids? What about the schools that can't afford to pay them (which is most non-major conference schools)? Should we then move the major schools into a separate division? What about the other sports? Do schools pay basketball players too? Baseball players? What about the track teams, or swim teams? What about field hockey that has no chance to ever make money for a university? For most schools, the revenue from football and basketball games makes up nearly all of the revenue for the athletic department, and is what even allows those other sports to exist.

I'm not even saying I disagree with you, necessarily. I do think they should be compensated in some manner more than a scholarship (which is nice, but doesn't feed anyone, nor do many of these players make any use of it). But if it's, say, $1000/game then what happens when Florida comes by and offers a wink-wink deal of $5000/game? Then we're right back here doing this same song and dance. Maybe there's a good way of doing this, but I don't see it.

[danwismar]

The NCAA knew in December that the players had committed, and admitted to NCAA violations, and as such, had played the whole season as ineligible players. Even if it had never been proven that JT knew about it, the case to vacate the season would be just as strong.

I take your point, pup, but that only makes things slightly less awkward for the NCAA, appearances-wise.

[jb]

Honestly, I've never understood quite why they don't just pay these kids, admit this is professional sports, and be done with the charades. I'm having a tough time figuring out why we're paying FBI agents to investigate 20 year old college kids trading memorabilia for tats. We don't give enough taxpayer money to these colleges, we have to pay the FBI to supervise their sports programs, too? Are they trying to make sure the gamblers don't get cheated?

Um, I thought they DID get paid. Just becsue some are too shortsighted or stupid to value the currency of the exchange,doesn't mean a scholarsip athlete-student doesn't get paid :

Billed expenses
Ohio resident,
Columbus campus
Nonresident,
Columbus campus

Tuition and fees
$9,420
$23,604

Room and board
$10,164
$10,164

Total
$19,584
$33,768

Since they automatically get 5 years, an in state kid gets paid over $ 100,000 (assuming tuition hikes and inflation) and a non-resident gets paid $ 170,000. This doesn't even count food, books, or the sweats, sneakers, usage benefits of facilities most students can't access , etc. Food and books alone are probably another $ 30,000 over 5 years, easy.

And it is all tax free.

Now keep in mind that you get paid whether or not you ever play a down or do anything positive. And before you get into any specifics about players, I will maintain that fans go to see the S & G. The shoe will get it's 103,000 whether it's TPeezy2's mad swag, Bauserman stumbling along, or Teddy the WonderLizzard behind center. These kids at legacy programs flatter themselves that they are soooooooooooooooooo important. F'em. They are interchangeable manicans for the most part except for the chrcter players fans love. And for the non-legacy programs? Almost all hemmorage money. These kids are monumentally subsidized for money losing endeavors under some guise that alumni donations will make up the dif or they drive student enrollment. Which is mostly bunk, too. For example, there is no financial reason at all for Akron of Kent to have BCS football teams. The student bodies are completely apathetic toward football & the programs are awash in red ink.

Lastly, not to get all high-horsey on a great poster, but saying they don't get paid is kind of an insult to any parent or student that has ever written a tuition check and gone vacationless for 4 years.

[daddywags]

Honestly, I've never understood quite why they don't just pay these kids, admit this is professional sports, and be done with the charades. I'm having a tough time figuring out why we're paying FBI agents to investigate 20 year old college kids trading memorabilia for tats. We don't give enough taxpayer money to these colleges, we have to pay the FBI to supervise their sports programs, too? Are they trying to make sure the gamblers don't get cheated?

Allowing these schools to pay kids opens up a major pandora's box. Is it only D1 schools that can pay their kids? What about the schools that can't afford to pay them (which is most non-major conference schools)? Should we then move the major schools into a separate division? What about the other sports? Do schools pay basketball players too? Baseball players? What about the track teams, or swim teams? What about field hockey that has no chance to ever make money for a university? For most schools, the revenue from football and basketball games makes up nearly all of the revenue for the athletic department, and is what even allows those other sports to exist.

I'm not even saying I disagree with you, necessarily. I do think they should be compensated in some manner more than a scholarship (which is nice, but doesn't feed anyone, nor do many of these players make any use of it). But if it's, say, $1000/game then what happens when Florida comes by and offers a wink-wink deal of $5000/game? Then we're right back here doing this same song and dance. Maybe there's a good way of doing this, but I don't see it.

I'm sure if they wanted to they could figure it out. They give full ride scholarships to PhD students in medicine plus research grants for decent living expenses and they compete for every one of the top students in those programs with other top med schools. If they are good enough, they might find themselves published in the New England Journal of Medicine which might roughly equate to winning a college football championship for a jock. But nobody bets on those kids.

[daddywags]

jb - I hear what you're saying, and, trust me, I know what it means to write those checks having written over 150 grand worth so far with three kids yet to go. I would give more value to the academic scholarships if more of the kids themselves benefited from those scholarships. How many of the players at the top schools actually end up with a degree that is worth much to them? If they get a break in business it's more often due to connections they build up as sports figures than the fact they have a degree in physical education or some such. Thing is, you wouldn't necessarily have to pay the back-up long snapper or special team player anything beyond the scholarship. But the starting QB or RB who's never going to get a diploma anyway? That might be different. Some people value academic scholarships more than others.

Maybe I'm getting (well, probably I'm getting) more cynical as I age, but I'm really thinking that these rules are in place mostly to maintain competitive balance in order to placate the media and the gamblers. The FBI? That's almost as silly as my congressmen wasting time trying to figure out whether Roger Clemens poked himself in the ass with a needle.

[danwismar]

Totally with JB on the huge value of a 4-year free ride for any sports scholarship....more so every year as college costs skyrocket. Of course these players are "paid" in a very real sense.

I've heard all the arguments for some kind of stipend for "walking around money" for pizza and beer or whatever...that it might make it a little less likely that, say, a Troy Smith would be inclined to take a $100 handshake from a booster....but I remain unconvinced that it would make those events any less common.

Seems to me more likely it would open up all kinds of avenues for abuse of whatever protocol was put in place, as cash was passed legally from athletic department to athlete.

[gnati]

Haven't you heard, FUDU? It's a "dirty fucking program".

Meanwhile, Auburn is the NCAA's National Champion!

Many of the people calling for JT's head are perfectly OK with bringing in Urban Meyer, fresh from the SEC, to run the program next.

Funny.

As someone who has said, if not exactly, pretty damn close, that it is a "dirty fucking program", let me weigh in...

1) It is possible and not mutually exclusive that tVest is running a dirty fucking program - and Auburn is as well....and more important to me at least...I don't want to have to compare tOSU to fucking Auburn in any way shape or form other than we each are places that have buildings, sports teams, hot undergrads and dying trees.

2) I think it is hi-larious that any tOSU fan would get on any horse, high or otherwise, about any other school or confernce given our recent (and by recent I say last two decades or so) track record with the NCAA...I mean, when was the last hoops coach to leave tOSU under anything other than an NCAA cloud? Even if you don't think what tVest has done with this is the end of the world, you have to admit the amount of paper cuts he is accumulating are hard to keep explaining away. I mean, one Troy Smith is one thing, but a Troy Smith and a Mo Clarrett and a Tat 5 and a track record at YSU and...well, it does sort of paint a picture.

3) I don't particularly want Urban, for reasons not important for this discussion, but his record with the NCAA is better than tVest's...

I'm just sayin.

JT should go...it would be best for all involved...he can no longer be taken seriously selling his brand of aw shucks "honesty"....

[Fire Marshall Bill]

At this point the NCAA is simply using this opportunity to save face and make themselves look good in the midst of scrutiny that these stories bring to them (in large part due to themselves).

NCAA = Detective Alonzo Harris

Dude, I gotta tel ya. I'm reading along with no horse in the race and I have to say, you're the only one in still denial

[JacksonDysonJackson]

+1 on gnati's take.

This is why I said they should have fired him a month ago. More shit comes out...more to still come out. The university looks worse with each report.

And to FUDU's question, I think the real question is, what are the pros to KEEPING him at this point?

[furls]

Jim Tressel lied about the sale of goods: Check
Team could be punished as a repeat offender: Check
Discussion about whether or not athletes should get paid: Check

All we need is the, "college football should have a playoff" argument and we will have hit the old news superfecta. Seriously, that article said nothing, and really so has the subequent discussion. We have now progressed from the investigation portion of this ordeal to the trial portion like Dan stated earlier.

This article is actually really good news because it means that the NCAA has found nothing else. If this is all they can find, then Tressel deserves a fucking raise.

My guess:

Vacate 2010 wins
Tressel suspension maintained at 5 games
Postseason ban this year
No reduction in schollies as it really would not be appropriate in this case
some probation time

Now that said, my biggest fear is that the NCAA feels that the time is now to drop the big dick on a program because the NCAA has taken so much criticism lately for stuff from the Fiesta bowl, Cam Newton, U$C, OSU, and son that they go over the top and hit OSU with multiyear stuff.

A one year ban really sounds worse than it is in that it would be unlikely affect 2012 and beyond recruiting.

[peeker643]

I do wonder how the book is selling:

The Winners Manual: For the Game of Life

I imagine a few execs at Tynsdale House Publishers had aneurysms if nothing else.

And daddy- I hear ya on the walk around money. But if cats are wasting (or are too dumb to take advantage of) hundreds of thousands of dollars in scholarship money what are they gonna do with a couple hundred bucks?

Then you get into the whole deal where if $200/month is legal why wouldn't USC/etc offer that plus another $500?

[hermanfontenot]

Honestly, I've never understood quite why they don't just pay these kids, admit this is professional sports, and be done with the charades.

Two words: Title IX.

You aren't going to be just paying football and basketball players. You're going to be paying female volleyball and lacrosse players too.

It would bankrupt every athletic program in the country.

[hermanfontenot]

BTW, most of these football players have no business on a college campus to begin with. If they couldn't do this, that and the other with a ball you might as well just give them a broom and dustpan and tell them to start in the corner.

And we should pay them to be there? Fuck that noise.

[daddywags]

herm - That's a fair point. I would do away with that crap, too. IMO we shouldn't pay our public officials to micromanage stuff like college athletics. In places where they don't take a dollar in government money things seem to work out pretty well. But I realize that ship has sailed (and I do NOT want to turn this into a political thread), so I'll just let it go.

herm - let me edit because I cross-posted to your first post without seeing your second. As to the second point, I believe players should be able to turn pro whenever they want to in any sport. It seems to work out pretty well in baseball where kids go straight from HS to the pros all the time. The only folks who would be disadvantaged would be the programs built on 18 year-olds who are forced to either play in college, wait a year or two without playing, or just give up the pro dream. Oh, and the gamblers of course.

BTW: Your (correct) assertion that most of these kids don't belong on a college campus as real students cuts directly against those who claim the academic scholarship is "payment" for what they give to the school in return.

[Kingpin74]

Take this with a shaker of salt because I'm a Michigan grad, but what am I missing here? Why would you guys even want Tressel to keep his job at this point? Even if this thing never happened, how many more years was he going to coach? 4? 5? Is it really worth all the national heat you're taking? It's possible that Tressel is stepping up for an athletic department mistake. But, that will never come out publicly(nor would you want it to), it won't change the perception either way, and it can be settled with a generous severance check.

You'll have several great coaches lining up to take the job and I highly doubt that the bowl ban will exceed one season. Don't you want this to be over and done with? If they handle this right, it could be forgotten by 2012. If you keep him, the stigma will follow him around. I know it's apples and oranges, but we just erased a three year tornado of bad press in a week and didn't even hire a marquee guy (whereas you'll be getting Urban or Pelini). He just wasn't Rich Rod. Fair or unfair, I don't see this letting up unless Tressel is fired. Given recent NCAA precedent, I don't think you can explain this away with a 5 game suspension. If you really wanted to keep him, I think a full season suspension is fair but that seems way too awkward to go through with.

[furls]

Nice post kingpin and I completely respect your opinion although it is a bit different than mine. You bring up great points and all are true. It is exactly what I have been wrestling with in my head for the last 2 months. To be honest, I have no great answer other than Tressel (used to) represent what I really hoped was possible in college sports the great man and coach. Now he is just another great coach.

I mostly think that I want him around now because I really want to believe in forgiveness and redemption. In the end, you are probably right; this thing would get better sooner with a new coach and there would probably some pretty high quality options, like Urban Meyer or Pelini.

[Spin]

Honestly, I've never understood quite why they don't just pay these kids, admit this is professional sports, and be done with the charades. I'm having a tough time figuring out why we're paying FBI agents to investigate 20 year old college kids trading memorabilia for tats. We don't give enough taxpayer money to these colleges, we have to pay the FBI to supervise their sports programs, too? Are they trying to make sure the gamblers don't get cheated?

Allowing these schools to pay kids opens up a major pandora's box.

With the athletic departments losing money like the US Gov and leaching off the students to make up the difference, half of the D1 programs can't afford a decent coach as it is. 90% of the student's they're raping couldn't give two shits about sports if they tried.

Then you have Title 9. If you want to pay 80 football players, you gotta round up 80 women athletes and pay them the same amount.

Then the basketball players wants mines. So now you're paying 95 women. There are only so many big assed softball players and gymnists even in a big school.

Then what about the baseball powerhouses? The hockey schools? Where does it end?

[fundamentals]

OH..................................LIE...................O

Clock is ticking on Mr. Tressel. Don't have much to add to this debacle only that few coaches have survived the penalties for similar transgressions at other schools, think I saw somewhere only about a 10% survival rate given the violations.

Urban Meyer has to be licking his chops at the possibility of walking into this job in the near future, just my uneducated two cents.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Take this with a shaker of salt because I'm a Michigan grad, but what am I missing here? Why would you guys even want Tressel to keep his job at this point?

[danwismar]

As someone who has said, if not exactly, pretty damn close, that it is a "dirty fucking program", let me weigh in...

1) It is possible and not mutually exclusive that tVest is running a dirty fucking program - and Auburn is as well....and more important to me at least...I don't want to have to compare tOSU to fucking Auburn in any way shape or form other than we each are places that have buildings, sports teams, hot undergrads and dying trees.

2) I think it is hi-larious that any tOSU fan would get on any horse, high or otherwise, about any other school or confernce given our recent (and by recent I say last two decades or so) track record with the NCAA...I mean, when was the last hoops coach to leave tOSU under anything other than an NCAA cloud? Even if you don't think what tVest has done with this is the end of the world, you have to admit the amount of paper cuts he is accumulating are hard to keep explaining away. I mean, one Troy Smith is one thing, but a Troy Smith and a Mo Clarrett and a Tat 5 and a track record at YSU and...well, it does sort of paint a picture.

3) I don't particularly want Urban, for reasons not important for this discussion, but his record with the NCAA is better than tVest's...

I'm just sayin.

JT should go...it would be best for all involved...he can no longer be taken seriously selling his brand of aw shucks "honesty"....

All fair points...and I don't disagree that the whole issue goes away sooner and cleaner if JT goes. Plus, his anticipated move to a pre-retirement post in the AD role or elsewhere in the athletic department doesn't seem so plausible now either. The accusation would be that the fox is guarding the henhouse, and the criticism would never stop.

[danwismar]

I do wonder how the book is selling:

The Winners Manual: For the Game of Life

Have you read the book? It might be worth looking at. (They had the Kindle version available for free a couple months ago, and I grabbed it then)

Not because I'd suggest you need lessons for life, Peeks. You're a proven success in life, from all I can gather.

I only suggest it because the book is derived from the working program that every player in JT's football program "lives" every day of his time on campus...from the journaling every day their expressions of gratitude...the focus on living outside themselves...the caring for others...taking concrete actions on that concern...the balancing and prioritizing of the important things in life....all of it.

It might prove to you what seems to me the opposite of what you imply in your post....that it's all just words on a page...and now meaningless, if not hypocritical, in light of events.

But it's not. Seeing how the contents of the book are implemented in the daily lives of his players as he tries his best to mold them into responsible men and citizens would demonstrate to you that they are way more than words on a page, and that he does more than "talk the talk".

I don't recommend it as a fun or even an interesting read. It's kind of boring and repetitive in spots. What is striking is how he "lives" it with his players every day. Participation in the program is not optional. He doesn't expect, nor get, perfection from his players...obviously (this is in anticipation of the inevitable responses about individual players' misdeeds), just as he doesn't claim or attain it himself...just as obviously.

What it might show you is why he just might deserve to survive this serious mistake, and why his value to the university and the program goes way beyond the football team's record.

[hermanfontenot]

BTW: Your (correct) assertion that most of these kids don't belong on a college campus as real students cuts directly against those who claim the academic scholarship is "payment" for what they give to the school in return.

But that money is still being spent. The cost is still there whether it's being properly employed or not.

[hermanfontenot]

What it might show you is why he just might deserve to survive this serious mistake, and why his value to the university and the program goes way beyond the football team's record.

Dan, I think Coach Tressel would be the first person to say that the Ohio State football program is bigger than any one man.

[danwismar]

What it might show you is why he just might deserve to survive this serious mistake, and why his value to the university and the program goes way beyond the football team's record.

Dan, I think Coach Tressel would be the first person to say that the Ohio State football program is bigger than any one man.

Not suggesting otherwise, Herm. Just saying "men" aren't necessarily interchangeable either.

[peeker643]

Tone is always an issue in posts I guess.

I love the guy Dan. He'll always be bigger than this issue IMO. The shit the guy does goes beyond this fuck up without a single doubt.

But if Amelia Earhart had scheduled the release of her book "Chicks Can Do It All" on the date her flight was supposed to get back to the United States it would not have been as ill-timed as the release of this book.

Seriously, I know the proceeds are going to charity, but the publishers have to be sick.

That's what I meant.

And as one firmly in the camp that he's keeping the lid on things for the entore athletic department I'm already fine with him coming back.

I don't think it's going to end well though. And end of the day he'll have himself to blame for the most part.

I do wonder how the book is selling:

The Winners Manual: For the Game of Life

Have you read the book? It might be worth looking at. (They had the Kindle version available for free a couple months ago, and I grabbed it then)

Not because I'd suggest you need lessons for life, Peeks. You're a proven success in life, from all I can gather.

I only suggest it because the book is derived from the working program that every player in JT's football program "lives" every day of his time on campus...from the journaling every day their expressions of gratitude...the focus on living outside themselves...the caring for others...taking concrete actions on that concern...the balancing and prioritizing of the important things in life....all of it.

It might prove to you what seems to me the opposite of what you imply in your post....that it's all just words on a page...and now meaningless, if not hypocritical, in light of events.

But it's not. Seeing how the contents of the book are implemented in the daily lives of his players as he tries his best to mold them into responsible men and citizens would demonstrate to you that they are way more than words on a page, and that he does more than "talk the talk".

I don't recommend it as a fun or even an interesting read. It's kind of boring and repetitive in spots. What is striking is how he "lives" it with his players every day. Participation in the program is not optional. He doesn't expect, nor get, perfection from his players...obviously (this is in anticipation of the inevitable responses about individual players' misdeeds), just as he doesn't claim or attain it himself...just as obviously.

What it might show you is why he just might deserve to survive this serious mistake, and why his value to the university and the program goes way beyond the football team's record.

[Schruted it]

Can someone lay out an explanation as to why Tressel hasn't been fired at this point?

[danwismar]

I'm with ya, Peeker. And the Amelia Erhart analogy was priceless.

[Spin]

And the Amelia Erhart analogy was priceless.

Pure genius...