Cleveland State at-large chances, Horizon League standings

[neoleo]

I put together an article to sum up CSU's slim at-large chances. Two of the teams on the bubble ahead of CSU (Wichita State and Richmond) have lost in the past two days. A win Sunday against Old Dominion will get CSU in the discussion.

http://theclevelandfan.com/misc/clevela ... the-bubble

As for the Horizon League, CSU returns to conference play next week for the final two games. They're currently a half game ahead of Valpo in first place, but Valpo has the tie breaker. Long story short, we need to win our two remaining conference games and have Valpo lose one of its three remaining conference games to give us the number one seed and the right to host the conference tournament.

Standings as of 2/18/11.

1 Cleveland State 12-4 23-5
2 Valparaiso 11-4 19-8
3 Milwaukee 11-5 16-11
4 Butler 11-5 19-9
5 Wright State 10-7 17-12
6 Detroit 9-8 15-14
7 Green Bay 6-9 12-15
8 Loyola 6-10 15-12
9 Youngstown State 2-14 8-18
10 UIC 2-14 7-21

I'll have an in-depth article on the seeding process next week once we get back to league play. For now I wanted to focus on the Old Dominion game and the at-large chances.

[peeker643]

I put together an article to sum up CSU's slim at-large chances. Two of the teams on the bubble ahead of CSU (Wichita State and Richmond) have lost in the past two days. A win Sunday against Old Dominion will get CSU in the discussion.

http://theclevelandfan.com/misc/clevela ... the-bubble

As for the Horizon League, CSU returns to conference play next week for the final two games. They're currently a half game ahead of Valpo in first place, but Valpo has the tie breaker. Long story short, we need to win our two remaining conference games and have Valpo lose one of its three remaining conference games to give us the number one seed and the right to host the conference tournament.

Standings as of 2/18/11.

1 Cleveland State 12-4 23-5
2 Valparaiso 11-4 19-8
3 Milwaukee 11-5 16-11
4 Butler 11-5 19-9
5 Wright State 10-7 17-12
6 Detroit 9-8 15-14
7 Green Bay 6-9 12-15
8 Loyola 6-10 15-12
9 Youngstown State 2-14 8-18
10 UIC 2-14 7-21

I'll have an in-depth article on the seeding process next week once we get back to league play. For now I wanted to focus on the Old Dominion game and the at-large chances.

TV for the game is ESPN2 at 1pm if anyone missed it.

[swerb]

Can't wait. Huge game for the Vikes.

[e0y2e3]

Fake school.... who cares?

People can front like they care, but does anyone really care?

Burn it down.

[Stu]

Fake school.... who cares?

People can front like they care, but does anyone really care?

Burn it down.

didn't you already ruin the norris cole thread with this garbage?




the way I see it, CSU can lose 1 more game and make the tourney. If they beat ODU and lose the conference title game they might slide in as an at large, but probably have to go thru 1 of the 4 play in games. if they lose to ODU they obviously have to win the HLT.

[comish]

Fake school.... who cares?

People can front like they care, but does anyone really care?

Burn it down.

didn't you already ruin the norris cole thread with this garbage?




the way I see it, CSU can lose 1 more game and make the tourney. If they beat ODU and lose the conference title game they might slide in as an at large, but probably have to go thru 1 of the 4 play in games. if they lose to ODU they obviously have to win the HLT.

Bah! Ignore the troll, Stu, he's just bored cuz all of his heroes are taking time off in LA LA land in order to pop bottles of Crystal, bang prostitutes, smoke pot, and figure out how to contract the league down to 4 teams including a new one in Vegas.

Back to the point....HUGE GAME. This team has yet to step up with a national viewing audience along for the ride. A win against ODU today and it is hard to leave them out. A loss and they better make a run at the HLT.

Go Vikes

[Rat_Tail]

0-4 on national TV could be the death of this team.

We were competitive the first halves of the WV and 2nd Butler game, but ended up falling flat during the last 5 minutes or so.

A lot of other bubble teams have pulled off upsets this weekend. Time for the Vikes to make a statement.

[peeker643]

Fake school.... who cares?

People can front like they care, but does anyone really care?

Burn it down.

I care. I didn't go there and it won't kill me if they miss out but I care.

I remember sitting in Downtown in BGSU watching them beat Indiana in '86. Remember the fact they beat St Joes in order to get to the Sweet 16, remember the Sweet16 being played when we were on Spring Break and watching them truly get effed in the ear against David Robinson and Navy.

Edwards, Tillis, Ransey, the joke that was Massimino era and then this Waters era. Care as much about them sneaking Wake Forest as I do about OSU 5th seed appearances.

You can argue the CSU/IU upset and ALR getting ND was responsible for a huge part of what the opening couple rounds of the tourney have become.

Interviewing some of these kids when we were doing the blog talk stuff and talking to Lee Reed, fuck yeah, you get caught up in what they're selling.

I have a huge amount of respect for Reed and Waters and what those guys are doing from a life-lesson, elevation of lifestyle situation for those players than I can tell you.

So yeah, I'm rooting for those guys to get something important to them when they're lifting kids out of the ghetto and giving them something critical.

I didn't go to CSU and I understand it ain't Brown or Vanderbilt, but it is to the borderline kid that ain't going to Brown or Vandy.

YMMV, but I for one ain't frontin'. You talk to Waters and Reed and then talk to some of their kids and tell me you're not pulling for them.

Clearly subjective so YMMV, but a place like CSU is important in giving the very kids that go therea shot that they might not have otherwise. And once kids get in and have a shot it all becomes what they do with it. It may not put you as far ahead as other schools but it helps ensure you have a fair chance of not getting left behind.

Say the same thing about BGSU and probably 85% of the schools in the country I guess. And despite going to BGSU I pull waaaay harder for CSU in situations like this than I do for the Falcons.

But I see ya working

[CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!]

Back to the subject matter, Joe Lunardi puts their current at-large odds at 35%.

[Squints]

Someone needs to step up and help Norris Cole before he transfers to Miami.

[peeker643]

Someone needs to step up and help Norris Cole before he transfers to Miami.

He got no help today. Montgomery was awful, Pogue was awol. Harmon-blecchh.

They shot 33% and were outrebounded BY 29!!

The fact they had the ball and were down just 6 with 2 minutes left was nuts. They need to shoot at a 45% clip to beat a big-ass team like ODU. ODU had 9 offensive rebounds in their first three possessions.

Win your tourney boys.

[Kingpin74]

ODU is a solid tournament team and it seemed like a difficult place to play. But unfortunately, to have any prayer for an at-large bid, this was a must win like Peeker said. Assuming they win their next 3, the committee still usually has very little sympathy for mid majors who lose their conference tourney finals, even on the road. If only they had a reliable 3 point shooter to take advantage of all the open looks that Cole's drives create.

The Vikes are a good team and could win an NCAA tournament game but they just don't have that true quality win. They're probably better off scheduling more road games against BCS schools in future years. There really isn't much to lose by doing that since it puffs up SOS win or lose. Even more games against teams like ODU would be a big help. This year is showing that a gaudy record and a string of wins against OK teams (Kent State, Iona, St. Bonaventure, etc.) just isn't enough for an at large bid.

We just need to root like hell for Wisconsin-Green Bay against Valpo tomorrow night. If Valpo loses, the Vikes control their own destiny for home court advantage in the Horizon tourney. GB has been solid at home and actually won at Valpo too. Valpo gets the Chicago schools at home next weekend but I think those are gimmes. Tomorrow is probably CSU's last chance.

And whichever poster keeps making fun of CSU basketball based on the school's lack of name value or whatever just isn't watching. It might not be the Big East or Big Ten but this is quality basketball. Plus, I don’t think it’s anyone’s place to call another college a “fake school.” I know a lot of morons from highly ranked schools while I also know a ton of smart successful people from Cleveland State, Youngstown State, etc. CSU has improved rapidly in recent years (with a ton of key donor money) and just about any college has good opportunities in place if you’re willing to go find them.

[e0y2e3]

Fake school.... who cares?

People can front like they care, but does anyone really care?

Burn it down.

I care. I didn't go there and it won't kill me if they miss out but I care.

I remember sitting in Downtown in BGSU watching them beat Indiana in '86. Remember the fact they beat St Joes in order to get to the Sweet 16, remember the Sweet16 being played when we were on Spring Break and watching them truly get effed in the ear against David Robinson and Navy.

Edwards, Tillis, Ransey, the joke that was Massimino era and then this Waters era. Care as much about them sneaking Wake Forest as I do about OSU 5th seed appearances.

You can argue the CSU/IU upset and ALR getting ND was responsible for a huge part of what the opening couple rounds of the tourney have become.

Interviewing some of these kids when we were doing the blog talk stuff and talking to Lee Reed, fuck yeah, you get caught up in what they're selling.

I have a huge amount of respect for Reed and Waters and what those guys are doing from a life-lesson, elevation of lifestyle situation for those players than I can tell you.

So yeah, I'm rooting for those guys to get something important to them when they're lifting kids out of the ghetto and giving them something critical.

I didn't go to CSU and I understand it ain't Brown or Vanderbilt, but it is to the borderline kid that ain't going to Brown or Vandy.

YMMV, but I for one ain't frontin'. You talk to Waters and Reed and then talk to some of their kids and tell me you're not pulling for them.

Clearly subjective so YMMV, but a place like CSU is important in giving the very kids that go therea shot that they might not have otherwise. And once kids get in and have a shot it all becomes what they do with it. It may not put you as far ahead as other schools but it helps ensure you have a fair chance of not getting left behind.

Say the same thing about BGSU and probably 85% of the schools in the country I guess. And despite going to BGSU I pull waaaay harder for CSU in situations like this than I do for the Falcons.

But I see ya working

While I am working (always) I was actually curious.

I mean, I don't pay attention to BU Hockey because they are awesome. Didn't go watch Jeremy Linn at Harvard... etc. I just can't make myself care about mid and lower level college athletics (and I fucking played at that level).

I can't tell you what YSU's football record has been the past few years and I was a part of that program for a year (on a schollie).

I can't tell you what Hopkins football record has been since I got hurt and my playing days ended and I started for them for a year.

I can tell you that 95% of the kids that go to MAC and I-AA level schools don't go there to be student athletes. They go there (at least initially) to prove that I-A big boys wrong by making it to the pros. All of these kids were monsters in HS and act like the spoiled bitch athletes they were (and I understand Norris Cole may be different, at least according to SDM). I also understand that I single handily kept YSU's team GPA in the acceptable range by rocking out a 4.0 in my year there, because no one else actually cared about school.

End of the day these are all mid-level athletes that generally are joke students.

What's to get excited about?

That's why I'll stick to my major programs that matter and Hopkins Lax. The rest is just feh to me.

But YMMV.

Oh and I can understand the Gary Waters angle I guess. I mean I couldn't pull the guy out of a police line-up but I do remember the Tressel era at YSU and having a guy like that in the community can be something you want to root for (if he is of that caliber, I have no clue).

Beyond that this whole CSU thing just feels like a band-wagon thing, not an actual fan thing. But hey, maybe I'm just missing some deep beauty that fake schools like CSU and useless programs like the MAC schools athletic programs possess.

But hell I don't even get that excited for the first few rounds of March Madness. Maybe I'm just un-American.

[e0y2e3]

Oh and well playd comish, well played.

[neoleo]

Great game by Cole. Montgomery and Harmon are both good three point shooters but they've been so inconsistent all year. We need them to get hot down the stretch. They were key to the four-win Horizon League tournament run and the NCAA upset of Wake Forest two years ago as freshman.

Pogue is also inconsistent. He had 18 and 10 against Wright State in the last game and then disappeared today. I knew we were going to get killed on the boards, we always do against big/athletic teams, but that was just brutal. Pogue needs to box out better and attack the lose ball instead of just take up space.

The bench has also been nonexistent for a few weeks now. That's not as big of a problem if we get a double-bye into the semi finals as a top two seed, but I don't think we have the depth to win four games in a week like we did two years ago.

Another killer this year has been the injury to D'Aundray Brown. He's only 6-4 but he's our best rebounder and a good post defender, but he's a natural wing player that can matchup with the 6-5 guard types that ODU had. That's were they really killed us, by crashing their big guards down on the boards.

[peeker643]

I can tell you that 95% of the kids that go to MAC and I-AA level schools don't go there to be student athletes. They go there (at least initially) to prove that I-A big boys wrong by making it to the pros.

I agree with you. But like anything else there's a growth and maturation from the time the kid is a passed over mid-level athlete with a chip on his shoulder to Ced Jackson, Norris Cole or J'Nathan Bulluck graduating and taking something away from guys like Reed and Waters that will always stay with them.

Oh and I can understand the Gary Waters angle I guess. I mean I couldn't pull the guy out of a police line-up but I do remember the Tressel era at YSU and having a guy like that in the community can be something you want to root for (if he is of that caliber, I have no clue).

Beyond that this whole CSU thing just feels like a band-wagon thing, not an actual fan thing. But hey, maybe I'm just missing some deep beauty that fake schools like CSU and useless programs like the MAC schools athletic programs possess.



I'm sure there's some degree of bandwagoning. But it's no difference than talk about the Tribe being down. Even with staples of Tribe talk. There's more to say when it matters.

And shit, I ain't honking CSU. Right now they're deservedly on the outside looking in. But shit if it ain't fun to see them in and beating a Wake team by 15 points, wire to wire, and knowing Wake was a #1 during the year. And as a matter of fact, it was Cole that was a witch on both ends in that one as a puppy with 20+ points. Then to find out these guys speak with polish and are graduating with mechanical engineering degrees (Bulluck) and whatever Jackson graduated with it's good to see.

They do it with flotsam and jetsom but turn it into something on and off the floor. I'm a fan of what those guys do.

But hell I don't even get that excited for the first few rounds of March Madness. Maybe I'm just un-American.

[neoleo]

I can tell you that 95% of the kids that go to MAC and I-AA level schools don't go there to be student athletes. They go there (at least initially) to prove that I-A big boys wrong by making it to the pros.

I agree with you. But like anything else there's a growth and maturation from the time the kid is a passed over mid-level athlete with a chip on his shoulder to Ced Jackson, Norris Cole or J'Nathan Bulluck graduating and taking something away from guys like Reed and Waters that will always stay with them.

Oh and I can understand the Gary Waters angle I guess. I mean I couldn't pull the guy out of a police line-up but I do remember the Tressel era at YSU and having a guy like that in the community can be something you want to root for (if he is of that caliber, I have no clue).

Beyond that this whole CSU thing just feels like a band-wagon thing, not an actual fan thing. But hey, maybe I'm just missing some deep beauty that fake schools like CSU and useless programs like the MAC schools athletic programs possess.



I'm sure there's some degree of bandwagoning. But it's no difference than talk about the Tribe being down. Even with staples of Tribe talk. There's more to say when it matters.

And shit, I ain't honking CSU. Right now they're deservedly on the outside looking in. But shit if it ain't fun to see them in and beating a Wake team by 15 points, wire to wire, and knowing Wake was a #1 during the year. And as a matter of fact, it was Cole that was a witch on both ends in that one as a puppy with 20+ points. Then to find out these guys speak with polish and are graduating with mechanical engineering degrees (Bulluck) and whatever Jackson graduated with it's good to see.

They do it with flotsam and jetsom but turn it into something on and off the floor. I'm a fan of what those guys do.

But hell I don't even get that excited for the first few rounds of March Madness. Maybe I'm just un-American.

Of course I agree with you Peeks. Waters and his staff came in and completely changed the entire culture of the program, on and off the court. I don't know what's been more impressive, the NCAA tournament-caliber basketball, or the fact that CSU players are no longer wanted for sticking up CC Sabathia.

CSU basketball was so far down just five years ago, it's really amazing where it is now, and it's because of Gary Waters. Props to Lee Reed as well for having the vision and ability to bring in his friend Waters. Reed is the AD at Georgetown now, btw. Would love to see the Hoyas come to Cleveland for a game vs. the Vikings.

[googleeph2]

Why the heck does a Clevelander need to be defensive for pulling for a local underdog? Cripes.
The more I think about it, the more PO'd I get.

And, in a thread that nobody needs to open if is distasteful to them.

Is discounting Cleveland State Univerity just sarcasm?

Or just an example of using negativity to prove a knowledge of sports?

Because you sure don't need to do that, eye.

[e0y2e3]

uhm... neither. It's a genuine disbelief that people (especially people that didn't go to a school, I get neo's attachment, guy is obviously one of those alums that is mad attached to his school) actually care about mid-level/meaningless college athletics.

Again... I played em. Don't care about em. Peeks covered his bases and I kinda get it, but it is still outside of my reality. Like I said, I could give two shits about both the programs I played for (one of which is my hometown) and I could give two shits about Boston colleges. Just trying to wrap my head around if people really care or this is all some "WOOHOO CLEVELAND!~@$!$!" fake bandwagon shit.

Good to know Waters does find some good eggs and like I said if he is the Tressel of C-town I can get it. But from where I sit I just don't understand. Peeks at least helped me try to get it.

And don't tell me to not open a thread when you can just as easily not read me. I'M RUBBER YOU'RE GLUE BITCH!

[googleeph2]

I knew your take. I read it. I knew you'd drop the hammer- was curious how.
I don't have any personal animosity toward you. I do have an opinion.

'Covering my bases' would feel to me that I'm being defensive. And for what- wanting to
bandwagon on a 'home' mid-major, feel-good story? No apologies.

Personally, I live and die with some teams, but I always try to keep sports as an outlet for enthusiasm and childlike fun. Otherwise what's the point? This local feel-good story helps with that.

Clevelanders for years were defined by passion and enthusiasm.
It's sports; it's the Cleveland Rocks/rock hall thing.

True, you deserve room to experience sports the way you choose.

What is the rubber/glue comp?

[neoleo]

e0y2e3, I doubt you watched any of the game yesterday but I was curious what you though of Cole's performance against a solid mid major that will almost certainly be in the tournament this year. 24 first half points and an arena record 35 points when nobody else on the team was doing anything offensively and every person in the gym knew Norris was going to shoot.

All of this is meant in a completely non confrontational way, but what he did yesterday had to impressive, no?

As for this thread, with the loss, CSU has zero shot at an at-large. They may eek out 5-6 top 100 wins and 2 top 50 if all falls perfectly, but even that isn't enough without a signature win (and Valparaiso at home just isn't it).

The key games for the Vikings take place in the next six days. CSU absolutely needs Valpo to lose tonight at Green Bay, and then the Vikings have to beat Milwaukee and Green Bay on Thurs/Sat. If that happens, CSU is the top seed and will host, and Butler and Valpo would be the 2-3 seeds, meaning they would meet in the semi finals and we would avoid them until a potential championship game on our floor.

Milwaukee had been hot, winning seven in a row, before losing to Buffalo in the BracketBusters game. They played that game without their most athletic player, who got hurt in the win over Valpo last week, and they also lost their point guard and their leading scorer (the center) to injury in the loss to Buffalo. The Vikings might just be catching them at the right time.

[hermanfontenot]

I can tell you that 95% of the kids that go to MAC and I-AA level schools don't go there to be student athletes. They go there (at least initially) to prove that I-A big boys wrong by making it to the pros. All of these kids were monsters in HS and act like the spoiled bitch athletes they were.

Well hell, Eeyore, you just described most of the student-athletes at BCS schools too. Most of those guys aren't going pro anywhere other than Turkey or Israel, same as the mid-major guys. Outside of the whole proving-them-wrong angle it's the same type of kid.

[peeker643]

I can tell you that 95% of the kids that go to MAC and I-AA level schools don't go there to be student athletes. They go there (at least initially) to prove that I-A big boys wrong by making it to the pros. All of these kids were monsters in HS and act like the spoiled bitch athletes they were.

Well hell, Eeyore, you just described most of the student-athletes at BCS schools too. Most of those guys aren't going pro anywhere other than Turkey or Israel, same as the mid-major guys. Outside of the whole proving-them-wrong angle it's the same type of kid.

True. But I think e0y's point was that if you're going to watch (on the whole) shaky students you may as well watch only the top notch athletic shaky students and proximity to a school like CSU doesn't change the fact that lesser students and lesser athletes aren't his thing.

[swerb]

Green Bay beats Valpo - Vikes control their own destiny.

[Kingpin74]

Green Bay 81, Valparaiso 80 in OT. Vikes are four home wins away from the NCAA's. Also, according to Gamecast, Valpo was up 1 with the ball with 15 seconds left and turned it over, good times.

[tommieskoski]

GREEN BAY UPSETS VALPO, 81-80 in overtime. CSU now controls its own destiny for the No. 1 seed and homefield advantage in the HL tournament if they win their final 2 games this week.

[Kingpin74]

CSU also falls down to 3rd or 4th if they lose either Thursday or Saturday, they HAVE to get the sweep. Strangely enough, Milwaukee controls their own destiny for home court advantage too. If they finish 13-5 and tie any combination of CSU, Butler, or Valpo, they'll have the tiebreaker since they'll have split with CSU and Valpo and swept Butler (the tiebreaker is record against the next best Horizon record, basically making it a round robin for all the tied teams at the top). Milwaukee goes to YSU on Saturday while Valpo gets both Chicago schools and Butler gets Loyola Chicago at home, I think we can pencil all of those in as wins for the favorite. That makes Thursday's game at Wolstein absolutely huge, hopefully they get some fans out there.

[neoleo]

That was such a huge loss for Valpo. The three games in six days did them in, although Green Bay is tough at home anyway. Valpo played at Milwaukee Thursday, traveled back home for Missouri State on Saturday for the BracketBusters and then went back up to Green Bay for a Monday game. That falls right in line with Mike Perry's article on the front page about the BracketBusters. Was that Missouri State win worth it now for Valpo?

At the same time, CSU had had to deal with the three games in six days earlier when we played Valpo, Butler and then Detroit and we ended up blowing it against Detroit. That game was set up because Detroit's normal turn on the rotation fell during bracketbusters weekend so they moved the game to earlier in the season.

Anyway, these next two games are so big for the Vikings. Road victories are so hard to come by in the Horizon League, especially this year. Having the tournament at home would be amazing, especially if we can avoid having to play both of Valpo and Butler and just get one of them in the finals.

[neoleo]

Vikes need to win these two, otherwise they may drop all the way to fourth...

http://theclevelandfan.com/misc/clevela ... al-weekend