NCAA Brings The Hammer Down On USC.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/n ... id=5267933

2 year postseason ban, loss of 20 scholarships, and they have to vacate wins from the 2004 NT season when they went 13-0.

[WarAdmiral]

Rocky Top is full of smiles today.

[JCoz]

Also, on a 2-year ban typically JR's and SR's will be allowed to transfer without sitting out....

Poacher city, thy name is USC.

[JCoz]

I'm also hearing rumor that recruits that with signed LOI's that have not enrolled will be released from their commitment if desired....

[Ziner]

Also, on a 2-year ban typically JR's and SR's will be allowed to transfer without sitting out....

Poacher city, thy name is USC.

Hopefully that is the case because I think these post season bans are unfair to the players. Fine the school, bar coaches if still active from NCAA for years, whatever, just dont think it is fair to make kids lose a shot at a NC because their coach and another player or so cheated the system.

That said Carroll knew what he was doing when he Got the eff out.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Also, on a 2-year ban typically JR's and SR's will be allowed to transfer without sitting out....

Poacher city, thy name is USC.

Hopefully that is the case because I think these post season bans are unfair to the players. Fine the school, bar coaches if still active from NCAA for years, whatever, just dont think it is fair to make kids lose a shot at a NC because their coach and another player or so cheated the system.

That said Carroll knew what he was doing when he Got the eff out.

They benefited in the post season from having an ineligible player. So banning them from post season season is just fine imo.

[Cease]

So, Carroll walks away scot-free? That is BS. The NCAA has to start holding those in charge at the time accountable. It would be pure rhetoric at this point, but the dude should be on probation from NCAA for a number of years. Make it official, send a message.

[JCoz]

So, Carroll walks away scot-free? That is BS. The NCAA has to start holding those in charge at the time accountable. It would be pure rhetoric at this point, but the dude should be on probation from NCAA for a number of years. Make it official, send a message.

Hey, at least lane is getting punished, he was there for this as an assistant.

[jb]

So, Carroll walks away scot-free? That is BS. The NCAA has to start holding those in charge at the time accountable. It would be pure rhetoric at this point, but the dude should be on probation from NCAA for a number of years. Make it official, send a message.

Good ofr the NCAA's credibility.

Happens allllll the time. Look at Calipari in hoops. The bigger joke is that if I'm a FR & SO I have to sit out a year if I transfer. Interesting side note that Todd McNair was Butch's RB coach, and was credited for Greens one super half season.

I wonder about whether Kiffen can work within these parameters or if this is his built in excuse for 8 years of grabage and a nice salary. Resurgence of UCLA & UW football?

[JCoz]

So, Carroll walks away scot-free? That is BS. The NCAA has to start holding those in charge at the time accountable. It would be pure rhetoric at this point, but the dude should be on probation from NCAA for a number of years. Make it official, send a message.

Good ofr the NCAA's credibility.

Happens allllll the time. Look at Calipari in hoops. The bigger joke is that if I'm a FR & SO I have to sit out a year if I transfer. Interesting side note that Todd McNair was Butch's RB coach, and was credited for Greens one super half season.

I wonder about whether Kiffen can work within these parameters or if this is his built in excuse for 8 years of grabage and a nice salary. Resurgence of UCLA & UW football?

You might see a Stanford surge as well.

[Cease]

I wonder about whether Kiffen can work within these parameters or if this is his built in excuse for 8 years of grabage and a nice salary. Resurgence of UCLA & UW football?

It's a safe harbor for Kiffen, in my opinion. He can rebuild his recruiting networks for a couple years with no expectations. Then lead USC's "rebirth."

[skatingtripods]

Not a huge fan of the B12, but it'll be nice to watch those teams crush USC once the conference reshaping is done.

[JCoz]

Not a huge fan of the B12, but it'll be nice to watch those teams crush USC once the conference reshaping is done.

Based on the loss of schollies?

Because overall, with the exception of 2005, USC has clearly been the much better team over the last decade.

[skatingtripods]

Not a huge fan of the B12, but it'll be nice to watch those teams crush USC once the conference reshaping is done.

Based on the loss of schollies?

Because overall, with the exception of 2005, USC has clearly been the much better team over the last decade.

Definitely. They'll be able to put a pretty good team on the field, but 20 scholarships is a huge blow. Especially given the financial background where a lot of these kids come from.

USC should be under really close scrutiny while their scholarship totals are low because they may try and screw the system again to fly some of these kids under the radar and sneak them in with some other type of "compensation".

[hermanfontenot]

People forget U-Dub and UCLA were arguably superior programs to USC in the 1980's and '90s. They'll be in the best position to take advantage of SC's (perhaps temporary) downfall. Along with perennial sleeping giant Arizona State.

Remember, as recently as 2000 USC was an afterthought in the Pac-10.

[gotribe31]

What does this mean for Seantral Henderson?

[Cerebral_DownTime]

What does this mean for Seantral Henderson?

I think he might have already enrolled, not sure though I might be wrong.

[Loo]

I don't have a high opinion of Kiffen, but it sucks that he has to shoulder the brunt of all this.

[JCoz]

I don't have a high opinion of Kiffen, but it sucks that he has to shoulder the brunt of all this.

Why? He was an assistant under Carroll during the time in question,,,,

[jb]

What does this mean for Seantral Henderson?

I think he might have already enrolled, not sure though I might be wrong.

Completely unfair. Completely. So what if he started in spring or took a summer course? Kid should be relesaed from his scholarship and commitment, same as anyone else found to be clean. Carroll gets out free and the kids who didn't do anything get nailed. They should all get to transfer if they wish, penalty free. And transfer to Ohio State Bayabeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jb]

I don't have a high opinion of Kiffen, but it sucks that he has to shoulder the brunt of all this.

Don't forget that he was on the staff when these infractions were comitted. I have a hard time thinking he is pure. His return may have influenced the NCAA's thinking. Who knows? But Lane is no bystander.

[jb]

People forget U-Dub and UCLA were arguably superior programs to USC in the 1980's and '90s. They'll be in the best position to take advantage of SC's (perhaps temporary) downfall. Along with perennial sleeping giant Arizona State.

Remember, as recently as 2000 USC was an afterthought in the Pac-10.

Right on!

(See, I can agree with you. ;-) )

And 'zona had some teams in the 90's as well ( Desert Swarm ) .

JCoz' take on Stanford will be very interesting. I still have to believe than Harbaugh HAS to have his eyes on returning as the conquering hero / saviors to Ann Weedbor. Kids and parent have to have that in their minds. Stanford also seems to legitimately keep their noses clean. I don't know if they will fully lower themselves to do what it takes, especially given the influx of the wild westerners. Hell, wasn't the entire SWC on probation when it folded?

Texas is gonna feast for the next half decade, and what they don't gobble up, Stoops will. Be interesting to see if they can lure a few difference-maker coast kids midwest, like NU and CU used to do in the day.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

What does this mean for Seantral Henderson?

I think he might have already enrolled, not sure though I might be wrong.

Completely unfair. Completely. So what if he started in spring or took a summer course? Kid should be relesaed from his scholarship and commitment, same as anyone else found to be clean. Carroll gets out free and the kids who didn't do anything get nailed. They should all get to transfer if they wish, penalty free. And transfer to Ohio State Bayabeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't make the rules.

[jb]

What does this mean for Seantral Henderson?

I think he might have already enrolled, not sure though I might be wrong.

Completely unfair. Completely. So what if he started in spring or took a summer course? Kid should be relesaed from his scholarship and commitment, same as anyone else found to be clean. Carroll gets out free and the kids who didn't do anything get nailed. They should all get to transfer if they wish, penalty free. And transfer to Ohio State Bayabeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't make the rules.

Sure you do. Change them so they can transfer to TOSU without eligibility penalty.

Pretty please?

[JCoz]

Kids and parent have to have that in their minds. Stanford also seems to legitimately keep their noses clean. I don't know if they will fully lower themselves to do what it takes, especially given the influx of the wild westerners.

Dont be so sure JB, Stanford has been convinced to allow Texas Tech and Oklahoma, and Oklahoma State into the Pacten.

That compromise would have been unfathomable just months ago.

The Pacten requires unanimous voting for these decisions.

It was Stanford who poo-poo'd Texas joining in 95 before the B12 was formed....

And you might not know this, but Harbough has subscribed to the Zooker method of recruiting ever since he's been there.

He's offered 3-4 times the schollies per year as compared to the Buckeyes.....

The wheels at Stanford have been officially greased friend.

[JCoz]

What does this mean for Seantral Henderson?

I think he might have already enrolled, not sure though I might be wrong.

Completely unfair. Completely. So what if he started in spring or took a summer course? Kid should be relesaed from his scholarship and commitment, same as anyone else found to be clean. Carroll gets out free and the kids who didn't do anything get nailed. They should all get to transfer if they wish, penalty free. And transfer to Ohio State Bayabeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Completely unfair, JB?

Sentreal was fully aware of the impending decisions looming over USC when he took the offer, he allowed them to bullshit him and allowed his father to dictate what school he went to in pursuit of a music career of his own.

I say that the sign said Beware of the Dog, tough shit if you got bitten, even if someone opened the gate for you.

BTW, its moot, because he hasn't enrolled. LOL.

[hermanfontenot]

Right on!

(See, I can agree with you. ;-) )

Ha! In fairness to you the majority of my decent takes are in CFB. I should post here more and on other forums less.

JCoz' take on Stanford will be very interesting. I still have to believe than Harbaugh HAS to have his eyes on returning as the conquering hero / saviors to Ann Weedbor.

Either that or follow his brother into the NFL. Stanford has always been a stepping-stone program. John Ralston, Bill Walsh, Denny Green, Tyrone Willingham, et al. It’s tough to win consistently on the Farm.

Harbaugh has burned some bridges with Michigan. It’d be interesting to see if both sides can let bygones be bygones, if it comes to cases.

Stanford also seems to legitimately keep their noses clean. I don't know if they will fully lower themselves to do what it takes, especially given the influx of the wild westerners. Hell, wasn't the entire SWC on probation when it folded?

Everyone except Baylor and Rice, pretty much. Grant Teaff was squeaky-clean. UT doesn’t really have to cheat, though, even though they did in the ‘80s.

I’m surprised the Pac-10, with its hoity-toity academic rep, was willing to take in the Oklahoma schools, esp. Oklahoma State.

[JCoz]

I’m surprised the Pac-10, with its hoity-toity academic rep, was willing to take in the Oklahoma schools, esp. Oklahoma State.

That is what I'm sayin Herm, and this is why I think the Pacten got the jump on the B10....nobody, and I mean NOBODY, could have predicted they would stoop that low academically.

That was what I was saying above.

[jb]

Harbaugh has burned some bridges with Michigan. It’d be interesting to see if both sides can let bygones be bygones, if it comes to cases.

To be sure. But with what they are going through, and I am convinced the worst is yet to come, it will make for a forgiving environment if they can get a former star QB with Bo linneage and a proven program building resume back in Schembechler Hall.

If Stanford can get a RB bid (I am ignant of the BCSCG location this year) before Texas arrives, UM may move faster than we think. Admissions canning a prize recruit in the light of day is a pretty major deal. Usually these things are worked out in private handshakes, or at worst, private escalation with an executive decision.

Make no mistake that this is a very open wrist slap and vote of no confidence. UM's admin must be peeved to the highest levels that DickRod just doesn't understand how serious the institutional control issue is.

[jb]

What does this mean for Seantral Henderson?

I think he might have already enrolled, not sure though I might be wrong.

Completely unfair. Completely. So what if he started in spring or took a summer course? Kid should be relesaed from his scholarship and commitment, same as anyone else found to be clean. Carroll gets out free and the kids who didn't do anything get nailed. They should all get to transfer if they wish, penalty free. And transfer to Ohio State Bayabeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Completely unfair, JB?

Sentreal was fully aware of the impending decisions looming over USC when he took the offer, he allowed them to bullshit him and allowed his father to dictate what school he went to in pursuit of a music career of his own.

I say that the sign said Beware of the Dog, tough shit if you got bitten, even if someone opened the gate for you.

BTW, its moot, because he hasn't enrolled. LOL.

Can't say I disagree with your caveat emptor take, but this big kid was in what, 8th grade when Bush was dirty at the University of Serial Cheaters? He should get a pass. To Columbus. My $ 0.02.

[JCoz]

I'd take him, I don't hold grudges just because he didn't chose OSU...I think he was duped by ol' dad, but damn if I wouldn't take him here...especially with how I feel about the LT position here...

Daddy is still in the picture though, and HIS #2 was Da U, IIRC.

[jb]

I'd take him, I don't hold grudges just because he didn't chose OSU...I think he was duped by ol' dad, but damn if I wouldn't take him here...especially with how I feel about the LT position here...

Daddy is still in the picture though, and HIS #2 was Da U, IIRC.

nahh, he'd swaet to death down there. ;-)

Dad sounds like a piece of work, who'd love to be on the receiving end of Chris Mills' mail.

[JCoz]

I'd take him, I don't hold grudges just because he didn't chose OSU...I think he was duped by ol' dad, but damn if I wouldn't take him here...especially with how I feel about the LT position here...

Daddy is still in the picture though, and HIS #2 was Da U, IIRC.

nahh, he'd swaet to death down there. ;-)

Dad sounds like a piece of work, who'd love to be on the receiving end of Chris Mills' mail.

Hopefully he goes and visits now to find that out, lol.

Seriously though I dont know if Tress and OSU will extend another offer, but I believe we will see a re-recruitment of him in the next couple weeks, so we'll see how it shakes out

[Loo]

I don't have a high opinion of Kiffen, but it sucks that he has to shoulder the brunt of all this.

Why? He was an assistant under Carroll during the time in question,,,,

And to JB--thank you, I didn't realize or hear that.

If Kiffen had a hand in it than it all works out better than it ever could have--Carrol's reputation is tainted, Kiffen's program gets sanctioned.

I need to start treating these boards like I do every article--background research comes before any stroke of the keyboard. That would have taken 30 seconds to figure out.

[jb]

I don't have a high opinion of Kiffen, but it sucks that he has to shoulder the brunt of all this.

Why? He was an assistant under Carroll during the time in question,,,,

And to JB--thank you, I didn't realize or hear that.

If Kiffen had a hand in it than it all works out better than it ever could have--Carrol's reputation is tainted, Kiffen's program gets sanctioned.

I need to start treating these boards like I do every article--background research comes before any stroke of the keyboard. That would have taken 30 seconds to figure out.

Here's the link brotha:

http://www.usctrojans.com/sports/m-foot ... 10aaa.html

[JCoz]

I don't have a high opinion of Kiffen, but it sucks that he has to shoulder the brunt of all this.

Why? He was an assistant under Carroll during the time in question,,,,

And to JB--thank you, I didn't realize or hear that.

If Kiffen had a hand in it than it all works out better than it ever could have--Carrol's reputation is tainted, Kiffen's program gets sanctioned.

I need to start treating these boards like I do every article--background research comes before any stroke of the keyboard. That would have taken 30 seconds to figure out.

Are you a writer here?

[JCoz]

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncf/news/story?id=5272615

Its official. Vacate all wins from 04 and 05, reduced to 75 ships for three seasons, 2 year bowl ban.

I'm hearing they narrowly avoided a TV ban as well.

Anyone who thought NCAA wouldn't slaughter the sacred cow was way off the mark. Most severe punishment since the SMU death penalty.

Boom.

[JCoz]

Linky to Full 67 page report:http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/995/952139.pdf

Highlights of Report:

COI will issue a response to appeals committee
Case centered on agent and amateurism violations involving
Centered on student athlete 1: Reggie Bush, and student athlete 2 OJ Mayo
Violations spanned 4 yrs
Beginning Dec. 04, ended with OJ Mayo’s departure from campus after 07-08 bball season
Reggie Bush was employed by sports marketer with knowledge of USC
USC worked through another individual to land OJ Mayo during his recruitment even though rep. had already committed infractions
Reggie Bush violations: received a vehicle, rent free home for parents, airline tickets, hotel room, cash, limo, furniture, appliance.
OJ Mayo violations: received cash, electronic devices, services, meals, transportation and a TV
Failure of USC was to recognize warning signs, wasn’t proactive in monitoring, didn’t follow through on information regarding violations. Found lack of institutional control.
NCAA had concern over commitment to compliance and staff was small for department of its size
COI considered the school’s self-imposed penalties and corrective actions when determining sanctions
COI considered imposing TV bans but decided penalties were enough, decision was “a very tough call.”
COI took into account that USC cooperated in investigation
Penalties: Public reprimand and censure, 4yr probation
Men’s 09-10 bball team ineligible for post season (self imposed)
Football team bowl ban for 2010 and 2011
FB will vacate all wins Reggie Bush participated beginning in Dec 04
Bball team will vacate all wins where OJ Mayo played in
Women’s tennis will vacate all wins between Nov. 06-May 09 (self imp)
Fine of $5,000 for Reggie Bush violations
Return of $206,020 to NCAA from tournament share (self imp)
Disassociation b/w school & Reggie Bush, OJ Mayo and Rodney Gilloury
School shall show why it should not be penalized further by disassociation of athletes
Disassociation include: assistance (recruiting or financial) from athletes
Release any bball athletes from LOIs (self imposed)
“COI is troubled by the institution’s failure to regulate access to practices.”
During probation USC must prohibit all non-USC personnel, except media, family & pre approved, from traveling on fball or bball charters, attending practices, attending camps, access to locker rooms before during and after games
Institute must provide recruits with info on sanctions during official visits, publicize in media guide
Todd McNair shall not engage in any recruiting activities for 1 yr

[Ziner]

Think they will take the Heisman? If so do they give it to VY? Do they re-vote?

[JCoz]

Think they will take the Heisman? If so do they give it to VY? Do they re-vote?

Vacant Heisman, pending vote.

[Ziner]

Think they will take the Heisman? If so do they give it to VY? Do they re-vote?

Vacant Heisman, pending vote.

Forgive me for being an asshole but what does vacant heisman mean? Like they just wont have one? They will vote on having Bush or no one?

[JCoz]

Think they will take the Heisman? If so do they give it to VY? Do they re-vote?

Vacant Heisman, pending vote.

Forgive me for being an asshole but what does vacant heisman mean? Like they just wont have one? They will vote on having Bush or no one?

Sorry, I wasn't clear.

They will vote (successfully) to retract the Heisman from Bush. Afterwards there will be no Heisman winner for that year.

[Ziner]

No problem, thanks

[jb]

Think they will take the Heisman? If so do they give it to VY? Do they re-vote?

Vacant Heisman, pending vote.

Forgive me for being an asshole but what does vacant heisman mean?

I think it was when Eric Crouch won it.

[Loo]

I don't have a high opinion of Kiffen, but it sucks that he has to shoulder the brunt of all this.

Why? He was an assistant under Carroll during the time in question,,,,

And to JB--thank you, I didn't realize or hear that.

If Kiffen had a hand in it than it all works out better than it ever could have--Carrol's reputation is tainted, Kiffen's program gets sanctioned.

I need to start treating these boards like I do every article--background research comes before any stroke of the keyboard. That would have taken 30 seconds to figure out.

Are you a writer here?

No, I write elsewhere. If you wanna know fine, PM me, but I'd rather not parade it for free around here. It's not exactly the New York Times, anyway.

I like this board for a couple reasons.

A) Only message board format with people who actually know what they're talking about and can handle people disagreeing with them.
B) It's nice to be able to say a lot of things I can't say in articles/columns/newspaper blogs. I can work my way around a thought and throughout an article, say anything I want and get the message across peacefully--but sometimes it's just nice to say--God I hate Ochocinco...choke on one #85.
C) It's nice to be able to say some off-the-wall things and goof around. Sorry, I'm still (insert whatever age you think) and I need somewhere to screw around.
D) It's nice to talk sports with intelligent people without having to do hours of background research or worrying about grammar and news rights and other things of that nature. Grammar is still important on here, but it's not vital and one of the biggest issues of each post.

Like I said above, I need to start doing my homework before I say ignorant things like in this thread. But still--don't have to worry (as much) about accuracy, grammar etc...it's a nice escape.

[Ziner]

Grammar is still important on here

Oh really?

Please reference Dawg74, Soul and Lucas, Mansfield (AKA JB)

[Loo]

Grammar is still important on here

Oh really?

Please reference Dawg74, Soul and Lucas, Mansfield (AKA JB)

I know, I know, I know. It's only a problem when you can't read (or figure out what he/she is trying to say) the damn thing due to more comma splices than sentences.