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Is Gary Waters interested in Toledo?

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Is Gary Waters interested in Toledo?

Unread postby tommieskoski » Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:59 pm

http://toledoblade.com/article/20100318 ... 75/0/RSS05

Cleveland State coach Gary Waters could not be reached for comment, but he is said to have interest in the UT opening, according to several people close to him.

A CSU athletic department spokesman, however, denied that Waters, 58, is looking to leave the Horizon League institution.

"He's on the road recruiting, but I can tell you he's not interested," CSU assistant athletic director of communications, Brian McCann, said yesterday. "That's a rumor that came out during the [Mid-American Conference] tournament, and there's no truth to it."

The (Cleveland) Plain Dealer reported Saturday that UT athletic director Mike O'Brien's top three candidates were Waters, Akron coach Keith Dambrot, and Western Michigan coach Steve Hawkins.
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Re: Is Gary Waters interested in Toledo?

Unread postby neoleo » Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:09 pm

Besides being closer to Waters' hometown of Detroit, why would he be interested?

UT sucks, bad. And the MAC has fallen behind the Horizon as a conference (in terms of RPI, record vs. BCS conference teams, tournament appearances and tournament wins). CSU is an up and coming campus that is set to open a brand new student center and a new set of dorms in the fall, and its not like Toledo has a beautiful campus in the burbs anyway. He has a nucleus of talent returning the next couple of years and has some interesting recruits coming in as well. He has a five year contract that renews itself every year, meaning he has the security he never had at Rutgers and probably won't get right away at Toledo.

I'm biased, but I see no reason why he would leave for Toledo.

And while we're at it, I see no reason why Dambrot or Hawkins would leave their places for a lateral at best move to UT.
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Re: Is Gary Waters interested in Toledo?

Unread postby jack_tors » Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:23 pm

NEOLeo wrote:Besides being closer to Waters' hometown of Detroit, why would he be interested?

UT sucks, bad. And the MAC has fallen behind the Horizon as a conference (in terms of RPI, record vs. BCS conference teams, tournament appearances and tournament wins). CSU is an up and coming campus that is set to open a brand new student center and a new set of dorms in the fall, and its not like Toledo has a beautiful campus in the burbs anyway. He has a nucleus of talent returning the next couple of years and has some interesting recruits coming in as well. He has a five year contract that renews itself every year, meaning he has the security he never had at Rutgers and probably won't get right away at Toledo.

I'm biased, but I see no reason why he would leave for Toledo.

And while we're at it, I see no reason why Dambrot or Hawkins would leave their places for a lateral at best move to UT.


+1

There is no reason for him to leave CSU to move downwards. CSU and the other elite Horizon teams are as good as any MAC school so to leave a winning basketball program for a school with 3 wins last season makes zero sense.
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Re: Is Gary Waters interested in Toledo?

Unread postby Cease » Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:28 pm

Would hate for CSU to lose Waters. he's such a nice fit. I don't think he's chasing better jobs after moving up the ladder once in his career. He's gotten the big paycheck and at 58 I'm hoping he appreciates the stability and autonomy he enjoys at CSU.
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Re: Is Gary Waters interested in Toledo?

Unread postby jb » Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:17 pm

NEOLeo wrote:Besides being closer to Waters' hometown of Detroit, why would he be interested?

UT sucks, bad. And the MAC has fallen behind the Horizon as a conference (in terms of RPI, record vs. BCS conference teams, tournament appearances and tournament wins). CSU is an up and coming campus that is set to open a brand new student center and a new set of dorms in the fall, and its not like Toledo has a beautiful campus in the burbs anyway. He has a nucleus of talent returning the next couple of years and has some interesting recruits coming in as well. He has a five year contract that renews itself every year, meaning he has the security he never had at Rutgers and probably won't get right away at Toledo.

I'm biased, but I see no reason why he would leave for Toledo.

And while we're at it, I see no reason why Dambrot or Hawkins would leave their places for a lateral at best move to UT.



Wow. Just a little biased there. But a good alum should be. I have no beef with that.

Todelo sure as hell isn't Cleveland. It's like Akron, so from that perspective there is no comparison, you're right. But Toldeo's campus is beautiful, dude. The surrounding 'hood isn't much, but the campus itelf is pretty sweet. Building design on a real campus green you wouldn't expect unless you've been there. Green and neo-gothic. You know, like a real college? And whatever ammenity that CSU is adding or dreams of adding has been at MAC schools for about the past 10 - 150 years.



http://www.horizonleague.org/sports/m-b ... sched.html


I agree that the Horison League had some nice success vs the MAC this season, no doubt about it. But in the long run and looking at athletics overall? The Horizon League isn't the MAC. The schools are a hodge podge that don't really click, there is no football, and take away Butler as the annual hegimon and the conference is pretty non-descrpit. No tradition. No personlity. A confernce of temporary convenience. The MAC is a neighborhood. The Horizon is a hotel.

Lastly, Waters' is basically back in Michigan if he goes there. His old Detroit pipeline hsn't seemed to be making inroads in Cleveland, maybe next door it would.
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Re: Is Gary Waters interested in Toledo?

Unread postby JCoz » Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:21 pm

JB wrote:hegimon


?

Even a quick google search didn't clear this one up for me JB, what does that mean?
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Re: Is Gary Waters interested in Toledo?

Unread postby jb » Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:24 pm

JCoz wrote:
JB wrote:hegimon


?

Even a quick google search didn't clear this one up for me JB, what does that mean?


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hegemony

I really can't spell. The greek root word is "hegemon" with a "e".

I like CSU for what it is. But it is what it is even with the new plans for the college town north of the city. We'll see if that actually works out given Cleveland being Cleveland, but that's for NHB'd I guess.

It isn't a MAC institution overall. Not yet. Not even a low end MAC institution. Regardless of any given season, I'd see Toledo as a better gig. I think the shock and dismissal is somewhat honkish, but that's just me. Not crazy better like Big 10, but a minor step up.

I agree it is a curious move for a man about to hit 60. Must be a copelling reason to get back to Detroit.
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Re: Is Gary Waters interested in Toledo?

Unread postby neoleo » Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:24 pm

JB wrote:Wow. Just a little biased there. But a good alum should be. I have no beef with that.

Todelo sure as hell isn't Cleveland. It's like Akron, so from that perspective there is no comparison, you're right. But Toldeo's campus is beautiful, dude. The surrounding 'hood isn't much, but the campus itelf is pretty sweet. Building design on a real campus green you wouldn't expect unless you've been there. Green and neo-gothic. You know, like a real college? And whatever ammenity that CSU is adding or dreams of adding has been at MAC schools for about the past 10 - 150 years.



http://www.horizonleague.org/sports/m-b ... sched.html


I agree that the Horison League had some nice success vs the MAC this season, no doubt about it. But in the long run and looking at athletics overall? The Horizon League isn't the MAC. The schools are a hodge podge that don't really click, there is no football, and take away Butler as the annual hegimon and the conference is pretty non-descrpit. No tradition. No personlity. A confernce of temporary convenience. The MAC is a neighborhood. The Horizon is a hotel.

Lastly, Waters' is basically back in Michigan if he goes there. His old Detroit pipeline hsn't seemed to be making inroads in Cleveland, maybe next door it would.
[/quote]

Respect your opinion here but I really don't see it as a step up.

I pointed out the closeness to Water's hometown, but that's not even a really good reason (it's not like he's moving across the country, it's not even 100 miles for crying out loud). Plus, Waters has a pretty highly rated mid-major recruit coming in from Detroit this year (and he pulled a JUCO from there in his first recruiting class).

I agree that CSU's campus had a long way to go just to get to be what other colleges have always had, but it's almost there. After four years of not having these things at his disposal, why would he leave now when they're "this close" to being completed? For a terrible team that won three games last year.

Since Waters came to CSU, they've opened a new dorm, a state of the art rec center, the Euclid Corridor has been completed, they completely renovated the main classroom building, and now the new student center, a brand new college of education and the new dorms are all set to open in the fall. Bad timing to leave, especially when the promises of a rejuvenated campus where part of the reason for Waters taking the job in the first place.

And even outside of Butler, the Horizon has had much more success in the NCAA than the MAC. OU's win last night was the first MAC win in seven years. The Horizon placed three teams in the sweet 16 since then (Milwaukee once and Butler twice) and won a first round game three other times (Milwaukee, Butler and CSU). Counting yesterday, that's 10 NCAA wins for the Horizon and 1 for the MAC.

Obviously Kent has had a lot of success at the beginning of the decade and that can't be overlooked, but I said the Horizon has passed the MAC, and Kent falling off as a threat nationally was right about the time the Horizon surged.

And if you can take away Butler and their annual success, can I take away Kent from the MAC? Wally Szczerbiak, Gary Trent and Earl Boykins aren't walkin' through that door.

Look, I think the Toledo job can be a good one. They had the money to buy out Stan Joplin a few years back and probably can pay good money for the new coach, they have a nice place to play, and there's talent in Toledo and they're close to Indy, Detroit and Cleveland. I just think they need to look at an up and comer, or a BCS coach on the rebound, like CSU did when Waters left Rutgers (and BG did with Louis Orr from Seton Hall). I think Todd Lickliter is a good idea. He had success at Butler after Matta and was just fired at Iowa. Seems to be a better fit at the mid-major level (as does Waters) and is familiar with the region from his Horizon and Big Ten background.
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Re: Is Gary Waters interested in Toledo?

Unread postby jb » Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:05 pm

NEOLeo wrote:
JB wrote:Wow. Just a little biased there. But a good alum should be. I have no beef with that.

Todelo sure as hell isn't Cleveland. It's like Akron, so from that perspective there is no comparison, you're right. But Toldeo's campus is beautiful, dude. The surrounding 'hood isn't much, but the campus itelf is pretty sweet. Building design on a real campus green you wouldn't expect unless you've been there. Green and neo-gothic. You know, like a real college? And whatever ammenity that CSU is adding or dreams of adding has been at MAC schools for about the past 10 - 150 years.



http://www.horizonleague.org/sports/m-b ... sched.html


I agree that the Horison League had some nice success vs the MAC this season, no doubt about it. But in the long run and looking at athletics overall? The Horizon League isn't the MAC. The schools are a hodge podge that don't really click, there is no football, and take away Butler as the annual hegimon and the conference is pretty non-descrpit. No tradition. No personlity. A confernce of temporary convenience. The MAC is a neighborhood. The Horizon is a hotel.

Lastly, Waters' is basically back in Michigan if he goes there. His old Detroit pipeline hsn't seemed to be making inroads in Cleveland, maybe next door it would.


Respect your opinion here but I really don't see it as a step up.

I pointed out the closeness to Water's hometown, but that's not even a really good reason (it's not like he's moving across the country, it's not even 100 miles for crying out loud). Plus, Waters has a pretty highly rated mid-major recruit coming in from Detroit this year (and he pulled a JUCO from there in his first recruiting class).

I agree that CSU's campus had a long way to go just to get to be what other colleges have always had, but it's almost there. After four years of not having these things at his disposal, why would he leave now when they're "this close" to being completed? For a terrible team that won three games last year.

Since Waters came to CSU, they've opened a new dorm, a state of the art rec center, the Euclid Corridor has been completed, they completely renovated the main classroom building, and now the new student center, a brand new college of education and the new dorms are all set to open in the fall. Bad timing to leave, especially when the promises of a rejuvenated campus where part of the reason for Waters taking the job in the first place.

And even outside of Butler, the Horizon has had much more success in the NCAA than the MAC. OU's win last night was the first MAC win in seven years. The Horizon placed three teams in the sweet 16 since then (Milwaukee once and Butler twice) and won a first round game three other times (Milwaukee, Butler and CSU). Counting yesterday, that's 10 NCAA wins for the Horizon and 1 for the MAC.

Obviously Kent has had a lot of success at the beginning of the decade and that can't be overlooked, but I said the Horizon has passed the MAC, and Kent falling off as a threat nationally was right about the time the Horizon surged.

And if you can take away Butler and their annual success, can I take away Kent from the MAC? Wally Szczerbiak, Gary Trent and Earl Boykins aren't walkin' through that door.

Look, I think the Toledo job can be a good one. They had the money to buy out Stan Joplin a few years back and probably can pay good money for the new coach, they have a nice place to play, and there's talent in Toledo and they're close to Indy, Detroit and Cleveland. I just think they need to look at an up and comer, or a BCS coach on the rebound, like CSU did when Waters left Rutgers (and BG did with Louis Orr from Seton Hall). I think Todd Lickliter is a good idea. He had success at Butler after Matta and was just fired at Iowa. Seems to be a better fit at the mid-major level (as does Waters) and is familiar with the region from his Horizon and Big Ten background.[/quote]


I'm picking up some of what yer layin' down.
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