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# 15/18 Butler @ CSU, Sat., 2 p.m., STO. (WEAR WHITE)

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# 15/18 Butler @ CSU, Sat., 2 p.m., STO. (WEAR WHITE)

Unread postby tommieskoski » Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:21 pm

First-place (No. 15/18) Butler (22-4, 15-0 Horizon League) visits second-place Cleveland State (13-12, 9-4) on Saturday at 2 p.m.. SportsTime Ohio/ESPN360.com will also televise the game live.

The Vikings have won six straight games and are 9-2 since head coach Gary Waters switched to a four-guard offense.

CSU is urging fans who come to the game to wear white to WHITE OUT THE WOLSTEIN CENTER.
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Re: # 15/18 Butler @ CSU, Sat., 2 p.m., STO. (WEAR WHITE)

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:36 pm

Anyone else here going?

I have the youngest's soccer game at 9am and the VD dinner at 6pm so I might try and sneak down and get back if I can avoid WWIII.
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Re: # 15/18 Butler @ CSU, Sat., 2 p.m., STO. (WEAR WHITE)

Unread postby neoleo » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:58 pm

Peeker643 wrote:Anyone else here going?

I have the youngest's soccer game at 9am and the VD dinner at 6pm so I might try and sneak down and get back if I can avoid WWIII.


I'll be there for sure. Been looking forward to this one for a while. We've played some good, tough games with Butler over the past few years.

As many as six all-Horizon players will be playing in this game with Hayward, Mack and Howard for Butler and Cole, Montgomery and Harmon for CSU. D'Aundray Brown also has a shot at defensive POY as a 6'4, 180 pound guard playing power forward (averages nearly 8 rebounds per game since taking over at PF and is 13th in nation in steals).
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Re: # 15/18 Butler @ CSU, Sat., 2 p.m., STO. (WEAR WHITE)

Unread postby swerb » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:17 pm

I'll be there. Last two Butler games at CSU have been legendary. Check your email Peeks.
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Re: # 15/18 Butler @ CSU, Sat., 2 p.m., STO. (WEAR WHITE)

Unread postby skatingtripods » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:49 pm

Peeker643 wrote:I have the youngest's soccer game at 9am and the VD dinner at 6pm so I might try and sneak down and get back if I can avoid WWIII.


What venereal disease are you going to a benefit dinner for, Peeks?
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Re: # 15/18 Butler @ CSU, Sat., 2 p.m., STO. (WEAR WHITE)

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:10 pm

Skating Tripods wrote:
Peeker643 wrote:I have the youngest's soccer game at 9am and the VD dinner at 6pm so I might try and sneak down and get back if I can avoid WWIII.


What venereal disease are you going to a benefit dinner for, Peeks?


All of them Adam.

All of them.

You get a sample of each.

I hope I get there before they run out of chlamidya.
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Re: # 15/18 Butler @ CSU, Sat., 2 p.m., STO. (WEAR WHITE)

Unread postby skatingtripods » Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:19 pm

Peeker643 wrote:
Skating Tripods wrote:
Peeker643 wrote:I have the youngest's soccer game at 9am and the VD dinner at 6pm so I might try and sneak down and get back if I can avoid WWIII.


What venereal disease are you going to a benefit dinner for, Peeks?


All of them Adam.

All of them.

You get a sample of each.

I hope I get there before they run out of chlamidya.


Make sure you try the nongonococcal urethritis. I hear it's really good when in season.

Just curious, can you dip your VD in a fondue at the place you're going?
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Re: # 15/18 Butler @ CSU, Sat., 2 p.m., STO. (WEAR WHITE)

Unread postby jack_tors » Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:05 pm

I will be there, cant wait for this one. The Vikings roll in playing good ball of late and this would be a big win for them in an up and down season. We took WVa to the wire, lets take it to Butler and bring home a win!

GO VIKINGS!!
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Re: # 15/18 Butler @ CSU, Sat., 2 p.m., STO. (WEAR WHITE)

Unread postby swerb » Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:58 pm

Go to the game today with my 4.5 year old, Paulie C and his 3.5 year old, and my two buddies. Got floor seats right across from the Butler bench.

Officiating was brutal. Before some late meaningless makeup calls, refs called like 23-24 fouls on CSU, 13-14 on Butler. Teams were equally aggressive. CSU didn't get one call on the 6-7 charging/blocking situations. Every one went to Butler.

Naturally, we're all over the officials. Frustration builds, and the "call em on both ends" chants turn into "I think your Butler -6 bet is safe Donaghy" taunts. My buddy, kindtim, he's got no restrictor plate. Starts to get uglier. No vulgarities though. Not one word. Nothing worse than you hear at most games.

Then, with about 2 minutes left, something happens that I've never seen in 30 years of watching basketball. The official stops the game, goes over to the scorers table, points to my buddy, and has him ejected.

Whole section, all in support of our heckling, goes crazy. Gives my buddy a standing O. Starts heckling the ref even worse. This 90 year old couple in front of us is outraged.

Best part of the whole thing, as they're chickenwinging my buddy out of the game, my son turns to me and says "Daddy, where are they taking Tim?" Paulie C's son equally horrified.

Just absolutely hysterical. Has to be the first ejection in CSU history. Be telling this story for 10 years.
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Re: # 15/18 Butler @ CSU, Sat., 2 p.m., STO. (WEAR WHITE)

Unread postby danwismar » Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:12 pm

Swerb wrote: My buddy, kindtim, he's got no restrictor plate.


priceless


My father in law had this happen at a high school game 40 years ago. (Medina playing on the road up at Avon or somewhere) Same deal...ref stops the game...goes to table...points out the offender..and has him escorted out....to the embarrassment of his daughter, who was there with her high school friends. The event spurred him to become an official himself and he did H.S. games for many years after that.

Swerb...hilarious story...even better having met Tim and imagining the whole scene.
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Re: # 15/18 Butler @ CSU, Sat., 2 p.m., STO. (WEAR WHITE)

Unread postby danwismar » Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:26 pm

Swerb...I assume you're going to DVR it for posterity. It's on STO right now.
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Re: # 15/18 Butler @ CSU, Sat., 2 p.m., STO. (WEAR WHITE)

Unread postby swerb » Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:52 pm

Ha! There it is at the 2:44 mark.
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Re: # 15/18 Butler @ CSU, Sat., 2 p.m., STO. (WEAR WHITE)

Unread postby neoleo » Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:14 am

Saw this unfold from 107. For a second I thought you were getting the hook Swerb. I agree though, horrible game from the officials and many late whistles to boot. Seemed like the 50/50 calls didn't get made until CSU had possession of the ball.

I can admit to being biased, but these whistles weren't coming until literally 3 seconds after contact and each one of them happened to have a CSU player with the ball in his hands after a loose ball or a missed shot before the foul call was made. It was maddening.

And Swerb, I saw them throw out a student that was leading the student section chants as well. They pointed him out, he agreed to leave and started walking up the aisle, then he remembered that he forgot his jacket and when he went back to get it they sent 3 cops up to get him.
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Re: # 15/18 Butler @ CSU, Sat., 2 p.m., STO. (WEAR WHITE)

Unread postby swerb » Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:37 am

NEOLeo wrote:Saw this unfold from 107. For a second I thought you were getting the hook Swerb. I agree though, horrible game from the officials and many late whistles to boot. Seemed like the 50/50 calls didn't get made until CSU had possession of the ball.

I can admit to being biased, but these whistles weren't coming until literally 3 seconds after contact and each one of them happened to have a CSU player with the ball in his hands after a loose ball or a missed shot before the foul call was made. It was maddening.

And Swerb, I saw them throw out a student that was leading the student section chants as well. They pointed him out, he agreed to leave and started walking up the aisle, then he remembered that he forgot his jacket and when he went back to get it they sent 3 cops up to get him.

Paulie just emailed me and said the season ticket holders right by us were outraged at the ejection and said they were going to address it with Lee Reed. Insane.

Didn't realize until I saw the replay last night, held up the game for over a minute.
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Re: # 15/18 Butler @ CSU, Sat., 2 p.m., STO. (WEAR WHITE)

Unread postby jack_tors » Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:25 pm

Swerb wrote:
NEOLeo wrote:Saw this unfold from 107. For a second I thought you were getting the hook Swerb. I agree though, horrible game from the officials and many late whistles to boot. Seemed like the 50/50 calls didn't get made until CSU had possession of the ball.

I can admit to being biased, but these whistles weren't coming until literally 3 seconds after contact and each one of them happened to have a CSU player with the ball in his hands after a loose ball or a missed shot before the foul call was made. It was maddening.

And Swerb, I saw them throw out a student that was leading the student section chants as well. They pointed him out, he agreed to leave and started walking up the aisle, then he remembered that he forgot his jacket and when he went back to get it they sent 3 cops up to get him.

Paulie just emailed me and said the season ticket holders right by us were outraged at the ejection and said they were going to address it with Lee Reed. Insane.

Didn't realize until I saw the replay last night, held up the game for over a minute.


I saw the eject as I was sitting on the same side but was too far up to hear any of the commotion or comments. In any case, he had every right to complain. The backside ref was killing us all game, some horrendous calls and the ones that werent called were even worse. Let me state for the record that CSU does commit a lot of fouls but yesterday was absurd. CSU picked up like 5 fouls in the first 3 minutes of the second half. Horrendous officiating and I hope many people complain to Reed. If your buddy got tossed for giving the refs a hard time, that total crap.

However, as bad as the refs were, CSU still lost that game. They played uninspired, sloppy basketball in the second half as Butler got it together. As much as I like Cole and Montgomery, this team needs a true point guard to run the offense. Hopefully Wells is that guy but he is still really green. And for the love of all things holy, someone please teach Cunningham and Pogue how to box out. Seriously, this team has arguably more overall talent than last year but is younger and without a leader. Someone has to step up.
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Re: # 15/18 Butler @ CSU, Sat., 2 p.m., STO. (WEAR WHITE)

Unread postby neoleo » Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:48 pm

jack_tors wrote:However, as bad as the refs were, CSU still lost that game. They played uninspired, sloppy basketball in the second half as Butler got it together. As much as I like Cole and Montgomery, this team needs a true point guard to run the offense. Hopefully Wells is that guy but he is still really green. And for the love of all things holy, someone please teach Cunningham and Pogue how to box out. Seriously, this team has arguably more overall talent than last year but is younger and without a leader. Someone has to step up.


Oh man, I completely agree. As bad as I thought there refs were, even if they call a good game we still lose with the way we played in the second half. Butler's D was good as always, and we couldn't get a good look. If we did get an open shot, it was as the shot clock expired and we missed it anyway. We also had no answer for Howard down low. When Pogue is in foul trouble (which is every game), we have nobody else to play in the post. Cunningham is a 6'9 guard and Tim K and Woods are small forwards. Joe Latas got some minutes and he tried hard but there's a reason he doesn't play much.

I think Pogue does a good job down low with boxing out and rebounding but he usually picks up two cheap fouls early and then spends the rest of the game trying to avoid contact, which in turn makes him ineffective and also puts him out of position on a few plays which makes him rack up more cheap fouls. It's a never ending cycle with him and it gets exposed so blatantly because of the lack of anything resembling a post player on the bench.

Our four guard lineup and smallish bench seem to matchup well with most teams in the Horizon but if we're to meet Butler in the final, Pogue absolutely needs to stay out of foul trouble, Latas will have to give us some productive minutes to help on Howard and Cunningham will have to find his heart on defense while also hitting some of the open threes he gets to pull Howard away from the basket. If every single one of those keys doesn't happen, I don't see us upsetting Butler (and even if they do, we'll still need big games from Cole, Harmon and Montgomery-only Cole played well yesterday).
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Re: # 15/18 Butler @ CSU, Sat., 2 p.m., STO. (WEAR WHITE)

Unread postby jack_tors » Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:58 pm

NEOLeo wrote:
jack_tors wrote:However, as bad as the refs were, CSU still lost that game. They played uninspired, sloppy basketball in the second half as Butler got it together. As much as I like Cole and Montgomery, this team needs a true point guard to run the offense. Hopefully Wells is that guy but he is still really green. And for the love of all things holy, someone please teach Cunningham and Pogue how to box out. Seriously, this team has arguably more overall talent than last year but is younger and without a leader. Someone has to step up.


Oh man, I completely agree. As bad as I thought there refs were, even if they call a good game we still lose with the way we played in the second half. Butler's D was good as always, and we couldn't get a good look. If we did get an open shot, it was as the shot clock expired and we missed it anyway. We also had no answer for Howard down low. When Pogue is in foul trouble (which is every game), we have nobody else to play in the post. Cunningham is a 6'9 guard and Tim K and Woods are small forwards. Joe Latas got some minutes and he tried hard but there's a reason he doesn't play much.

I think Pogue does a good job down low with boxing out and rebounding but he usually picks up two cheap fouls early and then spends the rest of the game trying to avoid contact, which in turn makes him ineffective and also puts him out of position on a few plays which makes him rack up more cheap fouls. It's a never ending cycle with him and it gets exposed so blatantly because of the lack of anything resembling a post player on the bench.

Our four guard lineup and smallish bench seem to matchup well with most teams in the Horizon but if we're to meet Butler in the final, Pogue absolutely needs to stay out of foul trouble, Latas will have to give us some productive minutes to help on Howard and Cunningham will have to find his heart on defense while also hitting some of the open threes he gets to pull Howard away from the basket. If every single one of those keys doesn't happen, I don't see us upsetting Butler (and even if they do, we'll still need big games from Cole, Harmon and Montgomery-only Cole played well yesterday).


Totally agree Leo. This team needs to drive to the hoop more and rely less on jump shots. They are an extremely streaky shooting team, especially beyond the arc. Driving to the hoop is what made this team go last year and with better big men in Pogue and Cunningham, they should be able to drive and kick it out to them or a shooter on the wing. The found success with this in the first half but were just lobbing up a lot more jumpers in the second half.
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Re: # 15/18 Butler @ CSU, Sat., 2 p.m., STO. (WEAR WHITE)

Unread postby jb » Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:06 pm

What a beat down.

Unfortunately, CSU reamins not-ready-for-prime-time.

NIT.
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