Going Pro

[jdrake10]

There are still people out there who don't think Oden is going pro. I think that is silly. He should and will go pro.

But what about Conley? His stock is pretty high right now. Even without a win vs. G'Town, he has put himself on the map and I think he has to consider it. But with a win, and another solid game in the finals, I can't see how he could stay at OSU.

[Guest]

For Oden, he's knows he's the #1 or #2 pick so he would have to go. Too much to risk.
Conley?
True point guards are hard to find(we know that pretty well) so I think he will be tempted. Plus him and Oden have been together for years, so he might want to join his boy in the NBA.

I want them both to stay though.

[pup]

Chad Ford from ESPN reported yesterday that both are about 99% to leave for the pros.

Oden is a no brainer. He is sick of being triple teamed by 6'9" guys and undercut on the block. His game translates much better to the NBA than college and the team that takes Durant over him will hate themselves by the All-Star Break.

Conley is a diferent story, IMO. He can run the show fine, but his jumper is still too inconsistent for the NBA game. His quickness and first step are his two biggest strengths, and both are negated slightly at the next level. The only reason he goes is to avoid his stock dropping next year when he doesn't have Oden to keep help defenders on the block instead of going after his floater. He reminds me of JeMarcus Russell right now. Went from not even being on draft boards 2 months ago to a top 10 pick. I tend to be afraid of those types of players.

[consigliere]

Both *should* stay, as they both have a lot to improve on.

But, given that the NBA has become a league where young players spend 2-3 years on the pine developing (rusting), Oden will go pro. Especially since he is a bonafide Top 2 pick.

No way should COnley go pro.....but he will. And, unfortunately, will be another Steve Avery.

[Guest]

Steve Avery?
From the Braves?

[consigliere]

LOL. I believe I meant William Avery....that's his name, right? The freshman Duke PG who came out with Magette and Elton Brand in 98 or 99?

[swerb]

T, you are insane. Conley could start for the Cavs right now and is going to be an amazing NBA PG.

Regardless of when he leaves OSU, he's not going to score a ton of points his first couple seasons at the next level. But defensively, and as a ballhandler/distributor ... he's ready right now.

I hope he stays, but he's gonna be projected as a top 15 pick, which will make it tough on him.

His jumper has come a long way this season. If it continues to develop (I've heard we works tirelessly on it) he'll be Chris Paul in 2-3 years. If it doesn't ... he'll be T.J. Ford.

[leadpipe]

Both will be very high picks. You go. This isn't about performance once you get there. If you can set yourself up for life by signing you name once you go. There isn't a kid in an accounting program in the country that wouldn't cut school short to take a several million dollar a year job. Sure, he'll be a better accountant if he stays and graduates....

Injury risk from basketball, hell, injury risk from life.

No matter what we think of these guys as players, potential etc., you are worth what someone is willing to pay you. Someone is willing to pay these guys enough to set them up for life. You have to take it.

Lastly, Consig, concerning Oden and Conley. I'm not sure we're watching the same guys.

[jdrake10]

Young guys always have a lot to work on in order to improve. The point is to go pro when your stock is high so you make the most money. Conley can work on his jumper by shooting 300 shots a day as a Buckeye or as a Cav (wishfull thinking). It is the same difference.

[consigliere]

T, you are insane. Conley could start for the Cavs right now and is going to be an amazing NBA PG.

The potential is certainly there.

Although, you are a Dook fan, and I am sure you were saying the same thing about Avery when he came out.

[swerb]

T, you are insane. Conley could start for the Cavs right now and is going to be an amazing NBA PG.

The potential is certainly there.

Although, you are a Dook fan, and I am sure you were saying the same thing about Avery when he came out.

Completely and totally different players.

Avery wasn't ready, and was a SG playing PG to boot. Conley Jr is ready, and is a protypical PG.

[pup]

While I agree with Consig (someone print this out), about Conley's "readiness", I agree that he has no choice but to go. His stock can only go down over the rest of his time at tOSU. I wish he would stay, but that is for selfish reasons.

Where Tony is way off is Oden. Back to the basket centers do not dominate the collegiate game by scoring. He is right on line with the top centers in the last 20 years for production and played most of the year with one hand. It seems somewhat stupid, but that game will really get easier for him at the next level.

[consigliere]

How Oden performs this weekend against Hibbard....and possible the Florida guys if OSU/Florida meet up again will prove a lot to me regarding Oden. I want to see how he matches up with another big body and NBA level player facing him.

I think he will be *good* in the NBA, but I just don't see greatness yet. I completely agree he'll be a stud defensively in the NBA. I'm am just hardly sold on him being a 20 point a game offensive threat. 10-15 PPG I can see.

As for Conley, Rich, I completely diagree on Conley being ready right now. He's certainly ready to jump to the NBA because that is what kids with talent do these days. They go for the jack now, worry about development later. Can't fault that either. But, Conley could use another year at least in college to fine tune his game. Instead, he'll get his money, and ride pine for someone for a year or two...and then we'll see what happens.

[furls]

How Oden performs this weekend against Hibbard....and possible the Florida guys if OSU/Florida meet up again will prove a lot to me regarding Oden. I want to see how he matches up with another big body and NBA level player facing him.

Wrong. NBA game is in no way similar to the NCAA and you really cannot infer much from either of those matchups, particularly in light of OSU's total void at the four. Georgetown and Florida both feature fours that will dominate anyone OSU puts on the floor against them.

Who said a center has to score 20 a game to dominate? CENTER IS A DEFENSIVE POSITION FIRST. Offense is a bonus. If you can get 15pts 10-12 rebounds, and bad ass defense out of your center, you are money.

[consigliere]

Wrong. NBA game is in no way similar to the NCAA and you really cannot infer much from either of those matchups, particularly in light of OSU's total void at the four. Georgetown and Florida both feature fours that will dominate anyone OSU puts on the floor against them.

While mostly true....I can see the excuse already being laid if Oden struggles and Hibbard dominates or does well.

Who said a center has to score 20 a game to dominate? CENTER IS A DEFENSIVE POSITION FIRST. Offense is a bonus. If you can get 15pts 10-12 rebounds, and bad ass defense out of your center, you are money.

I agree here. My point of contention is some saying he'd be an offensive force getting at least 20 points a night. I can definitely see a 10-15 PPG, 10-12 RPG player who is a beast defensively. But, again, my main point of contention all along has been his offensive abilities.

[furls]

While mostly true....I can see the excuse already being laid if Oden struggles and Hibbard dominates or does well.

I guess I am the new Oden-apologist?

I guess I am thankful that you agree with most of points! My life is validated. It is a fact, basketball is a team game. If the other team's four is dominating your four down low, that is going to affect the play of your center. Just like if your guards are not playing good defense on the perimeter it is going to expose your center to picking up fouls, as the guards go to the hole. I guess if I typed that it would be an excuse for Oden too. I have been calling Oden out for his lack of play/minutes the last two games.

I call it like I see it, and this is the first time that someone has accused me of being a fucking apologist, as a matter of fact I am generally accused of being a cynical asshole when it comes to cleveland teams. Why because, I think Brown, Wedge, and Crennel are as incompetent a bunch of idiots as I have ever seen assembled in a town.

Greg Oden has been a non factor in the last two games, and shockingly, the Buckeyes have seemed to be a better team without him on the court. It isn’t that the Oden does not have the tools to get it done underneath (when he is not in foul trouble), it just appears that the Buckeyes are not really sure how to use him and inexplicably, have struggled to get him the ball. One thing is clear, if the Buckeyes are going to play with the big boys, UNC and Florida, they are going to need to discover Oden and Oden is going to have to come up big on the glass.

Joey Dorsey seems to think that he has the size and drive to play with Oden, but I am not sure that he really knows what he is dealing with. Oden’s post techniques are such that he would be a difficult defensive match up in the NBA. Let’s face it, there isn’t much you can do to affect the baby hook of a seven footer. Dorsey’s best hope is that Oden continues to push to hard on offense and draws those silly offensive fouls that he really does not need. He has the size to operate in close quarters, so he does not need to push it so hard to generate space. These mistakes have cost him two crucial fouls per game in the Buckeyes last two games. Judging by the way that he was officiated late in the Tennessee game, Oden now has a “Charles Oakley” like reputation, so every time a player hits the ground around him, Oden is going to get the foul.

The differences between college hoops and the NBA are such that Oden (and Hibbert for that matter) are about the third most important guys on the court. Because of the differences, most glaringly is the 19'9" three point line, Oden's value in the NBA is really not as apparent unless you actually know something about playing underneath.

Hibbert plays with better position, but does not play anywhere near the "help defense that Oden does." The effect of this help defense is not evident in a stat sheet. The way Oden plays down low allows Ohio State guards to play in the shirts of their assignments because they know that if they get beat off the bounce, Oden has their back. Hibbert is also a "frankenstein" underneath, he is big slow and lumbering with rather lousy footwork, but even still I would not be surprised if Oden played him to a dead heat in this one because Oden does not have a lot of experience against other seven footers.

Frankly, a center in the NCAA really cannot dominate a game like they can in the NBA because even journeymen shooters in the NCAA can shoot 3's at a rate that is comparable with the best three point shooters in the NBA.

[leadpipe]

What about the simple fact of him playing with a team that will get him the ball.

[consigliere]

Whoah....Furls, relax dude. Not calling you an apologist at all. In fact, you are being pretty straight. All I was saying is that what you said (about OSU having no 4) is something people will run with if Oden struggles. We all have our excuses lined up for virtually everything in advance if something we predict doesn't go our way. I agree the lack of a 4 affects Oden, but I can see people taking it to an extreme if he struggles against Hibbard.

Personally, I think he'll be up to the challenge. He finally faces an individual close to his talent level, which may let him get more looks rather than other matchups as you said where teams throw 6'6" ot 6'9" guys at him and triple team him and foul him and don't let him play much offense. I really think it will be a Hibbert/Oden game for most of the afternoon with the two not getting much help defense. Which, may FINALLY let us see what Oden can do offensively.

[FUDU]

Didn't Conley just mention not too long a go that he plans n staying?

Which translates to: I'm out of here but I just wanted everybody to keep liking me while I am at OSU.

[pup]

Yes, about a week ago. He said he has a lot of things to work on and wasn't even considering leaving. Amazing what a couple weeks of good basketball during the tourney can do for you.