Buckeyes Leaving Early for NFL?

[danwismar]

Here's Ken Gordon's take (from Cols Dispatch)

http://blog.dispatch.com/buckeyesblog/

GIBSON -- Gone. Done deal.
CHEKWA -- Seriously thinking about it.
HEYWARD -- Wants to return, but could be swayed if he gets a glowing draft-status report.

Doug Lesmerises from PD says Jermale Hines is also one to watch..

FWIW

[JCoz]

Here's Ken Gordon's take (from Cols Dispatch)

http://blog.dispatch.com/buckeyesblog/

GIBSON -- Gone. Done deal.
CHEKWA -- Seriously thinking about it.
HEYWARD -- Wants to return, but could be swayed if he gets a glowing draft-status report.

Doug Lesmerises from PD says Jermale Hines is also one to watch..

FWIW

Any of them credible wiz?

The way I hear it from three different places it goes like this, and they all say the same thing:

Gibson: Gone
Checkwa: Likely gone
Heyward: Staying and that's fairly rock solid
Saine: Could leave if he has a big game (however insane that sounds)

Hines: I've heard nothing regaring him

Plus they already got thier paperwork back from the NFL (I've heard) and it was all reportedly lower than expected. Some much lower.

[furls]

JCoz matches with what I have have read.

[swerb]

I'd still be surprised if Heyward came back. Every year there's a guy pre bowl game that says hes coming back for sure it seems like. Gotta love comments like this one though:

"I really feel as though if I stayed another year, I would grow more as a player and more as a person and show more of what I can do. Being at a place like Ohio State has been nothing but good for me. They made me who I am today. I learned so much from this coaching staff, so I'm not in a rush to leave."

Chekwa's comments hes made seem to intimate hes gone. I still think he'll be a good pro corner, even though he hurt his stock a little this year. Before the season, I had him pegged as a guy that would go in the first 50 picks.

Gibson is gone.

Hines ... who knows, he's a wild card to me. Probably the most unintentionally funny person I follow on Twitter. NFL Twitter Police are going to have to spend a couple days locked in a room with that dude before they let him anywhere near a NFL stadium.

[FUDU]

If they all go that is a pretty big dent in the so called "next year is the year" hopes Buckeye nation has.

[swerb]

If they all go that is a pretty big dent in the so called "next year is the year" hopes Buckeye nation has.

DL prospects are lined up in waves from what I'm reading. Some serious talent. Got a glimpse of Simon in the Michigan game. Drop off at corner if Chekwa leaves won't be massive either. Torrence is back, they got the two frosh from this year from FL still.

Heyward would be a bitter pill to swallow though.

[FUDU]

If they all go that is a pretty big dent in the so called "next year is the year" hopes Buckeye nation has.

DL prospects are lined up in waves from what I'm reading. Some serious talent. Got a glimpse of Simon in the Michigan game. Drop off at corner if Chekwa leaves won't be massive either. Torrence is back, they got the two frosh from this year from FL still.

Heyward would be a bitter pill to swallow though.

That is a lot of talent missing from the DL, IMO that is a big reason why everything behind them worked so well this year. IIRC it is pretty rare for JT to have a young Dlineman come in and go gang busters right out of the gate.

[danwismar]

I've got no idea of how much weight to give these reports...other than to say both Ken and Doug are very responsible and "tuned in" beat reporters whose word I would trust over your random message board posters all day long...(no offense to any present company, of course...nor aspersions cast on anyone else's sources)

Hard to imagine Hines not benefiting bigtime from another year at OSU...not sure if there's a real hardship situation going on there.

[JCoz]

If they all go that is a pretty big dent in the so called "next year is the year" hopes Buckeye nation has.

DL prospects are lined up in waves from what I'm reading. Some serious talent. Got a glimpse of Simon in the Michigan game. Drop off at corner if Chekwa leaves won't be massive either. Torrence is back, they got the two frosh from this year from FL still.

Heyward would be a bitter pill to swallow though.

That is a lot of talent missing from the DL, IMO that is a big reason why everything behind them worked so well this year. IIRC it is pretty rare for JT to have a young Dlineman come in and go gang busters right out of the gate.

Sol Thomas, Keith Wells and Garett Goebel will replace Wilson, Worthington, Denlinger and Rose in the rotations. Those are some hungry pups.

Obviously you still have Williams, Larrimore, Heyward, and Simon coming back.

Heyward will be the one who can reallt drasticaly change the performance of the line. Otherwise we are looking pretty good for next season IMO.

[JCoz]

If they all go that is a pretty big dent in the so called "next year is the year" hopes Buckeye nation has.

DL prospects are lined up in waves from what I'm reading. Some serious talent. Got a glimpse of Simon in the Michigan game. Drop off at corner if Chekwa leaves won't be massive either. Torrence is back, they got the two frosh from this year from FL still.

Heyward would be a bitter pill to swallow though.

Right but Wiz, didn't these guys all already get thier paperwork back? I thought I heard Heyward got a 2nd Rd grade and that was the best of the bunch.

Had read that Gibson was a 3rd Rder but felt he could sneak into the 2nd with a good combine, and either was he was good with that.

[danwismar]

If they all go that is a pretty big dent in the so called "next year is the year" hopes Buckeye nation has.

DL prospects are lined up in waves from what I'm reading. Some serious talent. Got a glimpse of Simon in the Michigan game. Drop off at corner if Chekwa leaves won't be massive either. Torrence is back, they got the two frosh from this year from FL still.

Heyward would be a bitter pill to swallow though.

They're deeper at end than at DT. Larimore, Simon, and Garrett Goebel are back at DT, and if they land Sharif Floyd this year, he could help a lot as a freshman, from all reports...he's supposed to be the best DT in the country in H.S. Also Jonathan Hankins could still wind up in the 2010 class

At end, with Nate Williams, Solomon Thomas, Keith Wells (redshirted in 09), Jonathan Newsome (OLB/DE), Melvin Fellows (redshirted in 09) they're pretty deep. Add two incoming frosh, JT Moore and the kid Baldwin from Solon, the pipeline is pretty full. Then Steve Miller from McKinley and the other kid from Toledo already signed for 2011, it's really deep.

Word from bowl practice is that Travis Howard looks like the next great OSU cornerback...we're OK there if Chekwa goes out, I think...we also redshirted Dominic Clarke and Corey Brown (stud) and CJ Barnett at the corner spot....incoming freshman Christian Bryant (probably) from G-ville could also help early if needed. (I'm much more concerned about the safety spots post-Coleman/Russell)

[Cease]

Quick props to Thad Gibson. My bro-in-law coached him at Euclid and he was the bright spot on otherwise miserable teams. The tough thing about coaching at Euclid is keeping the kids interested in football (my words). Gibson flew straight while a lot of his buds fell out of the program. My wife also taught him at Euclid, err Euclid summer school, described his as a kind kid.

So I've been watching him closely since HS and was impressed to see him enter the scene at OSU. Now he's now joining the ranks of Robert Smith and Tony Fisher as NFL'ers from EHS (there may be others, I can't find a list).

Nice work.

[swerb]

Now he's now joining the ranks of Robert Smith and Tony Fisher as NFL'ers from EHS (there may be others, I can't find a list).

Another one: everyone's favorite OSU RB of all time ... Pepe Pearson.

No offense to Lydell Ross.

[danwismar]

Quick props to Thad Gibson. My bro-in-law coached him at Euclid and he was the bright spot on otherwise miserable teams. The tough thing about coaching at Euclid is keeping the kids interested in football (my words). Gibson flew straight while a lot of his buds fell out of the program. My wife also taught him at Euclid, err Euclid summer school, described his as a kind kid.

So I've been watching him closely since HS and was impressed to see him enter the scene at OSU. Now he's now joining the ranks of Robert Smith and Tony Fisher as NFL'ers from EHS (there may be others, I can't find a list).

Nice work.

I had a chance to talk with Thad a couple of times after games this year, and came away impressed with him. Very soft-spoken and thoughtful with his answers to questions...not always the typical canned responses you hear so much from players in "media opportunities"...good guy.

[motherscratcher]

If they all go that is a pretty big dent in the so called "next year is the year" hopes Buckeye nation has.

DL prospects are lined up in waves from what I'm reading. Some serious talent. Got a glimpse of Simon in the Michigan game. Drop off at corner if Chekwa leaves won't be massive either. Torrence is back, they got the two frosh from this year from FL still.

Heyward would be a bitter pill to swallow though.

Right but Wiz, didn't these guys all already get thier paperwork back? I thought I heard Heyward got a 2nd Rd grade and that was the best of the bunch.

Had read that Gibson was a 3rd Rder but felt he could sneak into the 2nd with a good combine, and either was he was good with that.

If Thad is a 3rd rounder hoping to crack the second, why is he in such a rush to leave? He's had such a breakout year that if he repeated it next year I could see him as a first rounder.

Wouldn't that be worth holding out for, or is the CBA forcing a lot of kids out earlier than anticipated?

[JCoz]

If they all go that is a pretty big dent in the so called "next year is the year" hopes Buckeye nation has.

DL prospects are lined up in waves from what I'm reading. Some serious talent. Got a glimpse of Simon in the Michigan game. Drop off at corner if Chekwa leaves won't be massive either. Torrence is back, they got the two frosh from this year from FL still.

Heyward would be a bitter pill to swallow though.

Right but Wiz, didn't these guys all already get thier paperwork back? I thought I heard Heyward got a 2nd Rd grade and that was the best of the bunch.

Had read that Gibson was a 3rd Rder but felt he could sneak into the 2nd with a good combine, and either was he was good with that.

If Thad is a 3rd rounder hoping to crack the second, why is he in such a rush to leave? He's had such a breakout year that if he repeated it next year I could see him as a first rounder.

Wouldn't that be worth holding out for, or is the CBA forcing a lot of kids out earlier than anticipated?

4th Yr Jr ready to be paid for his craft, simple as that. Not alot of family money and just ready to be a Pro is what I've read.

[neoleo]

If they all go that is a pretty big dent in the so called "next year is the year" hopes Buckeye nation has.

DL prospects are lined up in waves from what I'm reading. Some serious talent. Got a glimpse of Simon in the Michigan game. Drop off at corner if Chekwa leaves won't be massive either. Torrence is back, they got the two frosh from this year from FL still.

Heyward would be a bitter pill to swallow though.

That is a lot of talent missing from the DL, IMO that is a big reason why everything behind them worked so well this year. IIRC it is pretty rare for JT to have a young Dlineman come in and go gang busters right out of the gate.

Heyward is dating (engaged to?) an OSU volleyball player, plus his family has decent money from his dad's playing days. He's supposed to be a pretty strong lock to return next year because of that.

Don't forget Nathan Williams. Although it will be tough to replace the depth of this year's D Line when Williams was coming off the bench to keep others fresh, I think Williams may be a better player than Gibson. Both have similar games but Williams didn't seem to disappear as much as Gibson did at times (granted he didn't play as many snaps so he was always fresh).

Also of importance, Tyler Moeller should be back next year at OLB and he brings an added dimension that this year's defense did not have, a pass rushing linebacker. Having the experience of Williams, Larrimore, Simon and Heyward on the line along with Moeller rushing off the edge will still be a tough defense. Especially when you add in all of the young pups mentioned above who will be fighting to fill out the two deep.

[furls]

Guys leaving early for the NFL is just an opportunity. There are some great players, starters on most teams, sitting on the bench right now. The one thing we know at OSU is that there is always some guy that will rise up and fill the hole.

[jb]

Guys leaving early for the NFL is just an opportunity. There are some great players, starters on most teams, sitting on the bench right now. The one thing we know at OSU is that there is always some guy that will rise up and fill the hole.

Like Lydell Ross filled in for Clarett.

Like Steve Bellisari filled in for Germaine.

Like ray Small for Ginn.

[furls]

or Cam Heyward for the injured Lawrence Wilson 2 years ago.

or Ginn for Holmes.

or Wells for Pittman

or Vernon Gholston for Will Smith

etc.

[jb]

or Cam Heyward for the injured Lawrence Wilson 2 years ago.

or Ginn for Holmes.

or Wells for Pittman

or Vernon Gholston for Will Smith

etc.

Just funnin' Mike. hence the

[neoleo]

Heyward and Chekwa returning, Gibson leaving.

http://bucknuts.com/index.php/Football- ... -1346.html

http://bucknuts.com/index.php/Football- ... -1346.html

A statement from Heyward:

“I am excited about next season and am looking forward to being one of the senior leaders of our team. I sat down and talked at length with my family about my situation, and they totally support my decision. I’ve been blessed to this point. I am just having fun being a college student.

“I learned a lot from seniors like Doug (Worthington) and Kurt (Coleman) and all they were able to accomplish during their senior year. I would love to be a part of Buckeye tradition like that. I think the upside is very positive.

“I want to help our team achieve the goals of winning another Big Ten title and possibly accomplishing a national championship. If I could win some recognition, that would be great as well. I think I can be a leader for our team, and I know another season will help me become a better player.”

A statement from Chekwa:

“I am not ready to leave Ohio State, and I am looking forward to my senior season. I prayed about this decision and talked about it with my parents, and I know this is the right decision for me.

“I will graduate next fall, and I am looking forward to being a leader on what can be a very special defense for the Buckeyes. After the Rose Bowl win, we are working toward accomplishing more great things, including another Big Ten title and a run at the national championship.”

A statement from Gibson

“I would like to thank Coach Tressel, Coach Fickell, Coach Heacock, Shelly Poe, and the entire Ohio State football staff, as well as my mother, brother and of course God, for helping me to have the opportunity to enter the draft, and for the support from my teammates, alumni, and Ohio State fans across the nation.”

“I am not leaving the Buckeye family. I wish the team the very best in the upcoming years and I thank all my teammates for all their support. I will keep in touch with my Buckeye family and I love them all. I will always bleed Scarlet and Gray.”

[neoleo]

I like the makings of next year's D.

The Bucks lose Worthington and Gibson off the line, Spitler from the LB's, and Coleman and Russell from the secondary.

The biggest loss there is obviously Coleman. John Simon and Nate Williams can step into the line without us losing much (if anything) and Spitler rarely played as he was often replaced by Hines at the star/nickel. Hines will now start at one of the safety spots and Moeller (or one of the other talented young LB's from the Sabino, Sweat, Bell, Kline group) will take over for Spitler. If Moeller is healthy, I love him in that spot because he doesn't have to leave the field when we go to the star. The big key will be seeing which young safety steps up to replace Coleman but with so much experience everywhere else I think that blow can be lessened.

BTW, we only lose two starters off the Rose Bowl offensive starting lineup (TE Ballard and LT Cordle).

[jb]

Heyward and Chekwa returning, Gibson leaving.

http://bucknuts.com/index.php/Football- ... -1346.html

http://bucknuts.com/index.php/Football- ... -1346.html

A statement from Heyward:

“I am excited about next season and am looking forward to being one of the senior leaders of our team. I sat down and talked at length with my family about my situation, and they totally support my decision. I’ve been blessed to this point. I am just having fun being a college student.

“I learned a lot from seniors like Doug (Worthington) and Kurt (Coleman) and all they were able to accomplish during their senior year. I would love to be a part of Buckeye tradition like that. I think the upside is very positive.

“I want to help our team achieve the goals of winning another Big Ten title and possibly accomplishing a national championship. If I could win some recognition, that would be great as well. I think I can be a leader for our team, and I know another season will help me become a better player.”

A statement from Chekwa:

“I am not ready to leave Ohio State, and I am looking forward to my senior season. I prayed about this decision and talked about it with my parents, and I know this is the right decision for me.

“I will graduate next fall, and I am looking forward to being a leader on what can be a very special defense for the Buckeyes. After the Rose Bowl win, we are working toward accomplishing more great things, including another Big Ten title and a run at the national championship.”

A statement from Gibson

“I would like to thank Coach Tressel, Coach Fickell, Coach Heacock, Shelly Poe, and the entire Ohio State football staff, as well as my mother, brother and of course God, for helping me to have the opportunity to enter the draft, and for the support from my teammates, alumni, and Ohio State fans across the nation.”

“I am not leaving the Buckeye family. I wish the team the very best in the upcoming years and I thank all my teammates for all their support. I will keep in touch with my Buckeye family and I love them all. I will always bleed Scarlet and Gray.”

Good stuff Leo. Chekwa is a bonus, no?

Heyward may be # 1 overall next year.

[neoleo]

Good stuff Leo. Chekwa is a bonus, no?

From what I was reading Chekwa was on the fence but leaning towards going. Getting him back is huge to me because the Bucks don't play three CB's much with the nickel being a hybrid safety/linebacker. Many believe that Torrence is becoming the better of the two (I agree) but if Chekwa were to leave, there was absolutely no experience behind Torrence. Breaking in an untested CB with two new starting safeties could have proven to be the undoing of next year's defense. Now we'll have two senior starters to take the pressure off the new safeties.

Heyward may be # 1 overall next year.

Agree. Supposedly his draft papers didn't come back as high as he anticipated this year (2nd round), but with his ability to fit into either system in the pros (4-3 tackle, 3-4 end) coupled with the numbers I would anticipate him putting up at the combine, I can see him making a rapid rise up the draft charts. I'll try to dig it up but I seem to remember a scout going on record as saying he would take Heyward number one THIS year (that was after the Penn State game).

[pup]

I thought Chekwa was the biggest underperformer on this entire Buckeye squad. He needed to come back. Never thought he would, not sure I am all that excited about him being back, but experience is never a bad thing (unless it is Anderson Russell).

[JCoz]

Heyward may be # 1 overall next year.

He won't even be #1 at his position JB.

Love Heyward, he is a beast, but he is not even the best DE/DT super tweeneer in the conference.

And Clayborn won't be #1 overall either.

[RCB1948]

Chekwa is a bonus, no?

No. Emphatically NO.

[danwismar]

Nothing wrong with Chekwa that some simple coaching won't cure.

He was preseason All Big Ten first team on almost all "experts'" lists, and nobody had a negative word to say about his performance this season until he got beat on exactly two plays by Iowa receivers (and great throws by James Vandenberg) in Game 11. Most teams didn't even try to throw in his direction all season. He's a strong and fearless tackler, solid in run support. He's an excellent one-on-one cover corner...with one qualifier...

He did show a fairly consistent tendency to face up to his man in coverage, and paw at him with his hands, without looking back for, let alone making a play on, the ball. It cost the team some crucial yardage (on PI penalties) in more than one game (Iowa, Michigan?, come to mind). IMO, it's a coaching issue. Taver Johnson is his position coach (coached Browns special teams in 2004, FWIW) ...and all his guys are to some degree guilty of the same kind of tactic. Don't understand why this is, but it needs to change.

On the passes he got "burned" on against Iowa, he was a step behind his guy, and his guy made the catch on a perfectly thrown ball. No excuses possible or necessary.

The good news is it's a very correctable flaw in Chekwa's game. As an athlete, cover man, and tackler, he remains one of the best in the conference (in what was admittedly not the greatest year in the Big Ten for cornerback play)

I'm trying to remember other plays this season when his play could be legitimately criticized as sub-par. Can't...though I'm open to having my memory jogged.

[danwismar]

Other notes on the original topic.....

Homan announces today he's staying.....no surprise there.

Jake Stoneburner tweets this morning something to the effect of "goodbye #7" , which could mean either that Jermale Hines will turn pro...or...that the long-rumored transfer of Lamaar Thomas is going to happen. (They both wear #7.)

My bet is on the latter...as is my hope.

[swerb]

Heyward staying for his senior season, how great is that? Becomes my new favorite Buckeye with Kurt Coleman graduating.

[jb]

Heyward may be # 1 overall next year.

He won't even be #1 at his position JB.

Love Heyward, he is a beast, but he is not even the best DE/DT super tweeneer in the conference.

And Clayborn won't be #1 overall either.

How long you gonna keep us in suspense, Coz?

[jb]

I thought Chekwa was the biggest underperformer on this entire Buckeye squad. He needed to come back. Never thought he would, not sure I am all that excited about him being back, but experience is never a bad thing (unless it is Anderson Russell).

Better team w/ him than without (as oppsed to Russell) . he still as a shot to have a capstone season and play up to his tlent. Like Wiz said, still don't think he "sucked" .

[furls]

He was very good, not great. With some work in the off season he could be excellent and make some good money. The kid is fast, runs on OSU's 4X100 relay team for track too (b10 champs).

From what I hear Thomas and T.Wash are both gone. Good move for Thomas, I think T. Wash could've worked his way to #3 WR this year.

[e0y2e3]

marcushartman: Lamaar Thomas tells @AdamJardyBSB Ohio State has released him from his scholarship

[pup]

I thought Chekwa was the biggest underperformer on this entire Buckeye squad. He needed to come back. Never thought he would, not sure I am all that excited about him being back, but experience is never a bad thing (unless it is Anderson Russell).

Better team w/ him than without (as oppsed to Russell) . he still as a shot to have a capstone season and play up to his tlent. Like Wiz said, still don't think he "sucked" .

Didn't exactly say he sucked.

Said he did the least, with the most. He is obviously very talented and had a very strong sophomore campaign. Just don't think he stepped up proper for his junior season.

Can't cite moments, but know I often finished games wondering what happened to that Super Soph cover corner.

[JCoz]

Heyward may be # 1 overall next year.

He won't even be #1 at his position JB.

Love Heyward, he is a beast, but he is not even the best DE/DT super tweeneer in the conference.

And Clayborn won't be #1 overall either.

How long you gonna keep us in suspense, Coz?

Whatchu mean?

Adrian Clayborn is the best DE/DT tweener in the Big Ten, Best in the Country. And he's coming back next season.

He's a bit shorter and more stocky than Heyward, but he is more explosive of the ball and a better pass rusher.

And FTR I am a HUGE fan of Heywards.....He has a great shot at having a monster senior season, I just think Clayborn is better now, and that isn't likely to change....He reminded me of Will Smith this season. Might be better than him.

[jb]

Heyward may be # 1 overall next year.

He won't even be #1 at his position JB.

Love Heyward, he is a beast, but he is not even the best DE/DT super tweeneer in the conference.

And Clayborn won't be #1 overall either.

How long you gonna keep us in suspense, Coz?

Whatchu mean?

"And Clayborn won't be #1 overall either."

Who is?

FWIW, I don't see them as all that similar, despite close wgts.


I see AC as more of a Tampa 2 DE or a pure DE. He relies more on speed and outside bull when I've watche dhim closely.

I see heyward as a more versitile lineman, able to ply 1 gap with his speed or 2 gp w/ his strength.

I think Heyward is better, but I'm a Buckeye honk. I also think he is much better than Will Smith, more dominant. Hie level of play is more on par with Gohlsten as far as impacting a game, even though he's a different player.

Not to say Claybourne sucks. He was a MAN vs Sate penn especially. I thnk he's v good. But I will say I say a sit ethat projects him in round 2.

[peeker643]

Heyward may be # 1 overall next year.

He won't even be #1 at his position JB.

Love Heyward, he is a beast, but he is not even the best DE/DT super tweeneer in the conference.

And Clayborn won't be #1 overall either.

How long you gonna keep us in suspense, Coz?

Whatchu mean?

"And Clayborn won't be #1 overall either."

Who is?

Locker would likely be the leader in the clubhouse.

[JCoz]

Heyward may be # 1 overall next year.

He won't even be #1 at his position JB.

Love Heyward, he is a beast, but he is not even the best DE/DT super tweeneer in the conference.

And Clayborn won't be #1 overall either.

How long you gonna keep us in suspense, Coz?

Whatchu mean?

"And Clayborn won't be #1 overall either."

Who is?

FWIW, I don't see them as all that similar, despite close wgts.


I see AC as more of a Tampa 2 DE or a pure DE. He relies more on speed and outside bull when I've watche dhim closely.

I see heyward as a more versitile lineman, able to ply 1 gap with his speed or 2 gp w/ his strength.

I think Heyward is better, but I'm a Buckeye honk. I also think he is much better than Will Smith, more dominant. Hie level of play is more on par with Gohlsten as far as impacting a game, even though he's a different player.

Not to say Claybourne sucks. He was a MAN vs Sate penn especially. I thnk he's v good. But I will say I say a sit ethat projects him in round 2.

Wow, a college football discussion between me and JB and JB comes out the buckeye honk?

Inconceivable.

But I think they are closer than you think.

Heyward was projected round 2 as well....that was what the scouts told him. Probably a better source than a random site.

No need to get into who is better really, I'm not one to sit here knocking OSU players....

But I will put some cash down right now that both go in RD 1 next season.

As for who's number 1.......

Ingram possibly, Locker possibly......honestly I don't really know...

But the D Lineman that go #1 are real superstars, the DE's are flashy, 15+ sack types, the DT are monsters, total athletic freaks.....

Heyward, a great player in his own right, is neither of those things.....

[furls]

I doubt highly that either of them are #1 overally, but I do think Cam (with a great season next year) plays himself into the top ten just out of the value of his versatility. He is a perfect 3-4 DE or a perfect 3 technique 4-3 DT. He fits both schemes perfectly and plays both positions equally well. The real difference between AC and CH is that CH is a run stopper and has shown his ability to annhilate running plays on his side. I think he is too tall to be a true 2 gap 0 technique DT/NT, I am not sure that he would be able to get the leverage to make plays at the LOS while covering both gaps. He is the kind of guy that you put at DE in a 3-4 and don't worry about that side's B-Gap.

I don't think that either player projects to be a sackmonster in the NFL, but make no mistake about it, Cam will play as a stud, game changing DL next year. The kind that will garner a lot of national attention.

[JCoz]

I doubt highly that either of them are #1 overally, but I do think Cam (with a great season next year) plays himself into the top ten just out of the value of his versatility. He is a perfect 3-4 DE or a perfect 3 technique 4-3 DT. He fits both schemes perfectly and plays both positions equally well. The real difference between AC and CH is that CH is a run stopper and has shown his ability to annhilate running plays on his side. I think he is too tall to be a true 2 gap 0 technique DT/NT, I am not sure that he would be able to get the leverage to make plays at the LOS while covering both gaps. He is the kind of guy that you put at DE in a 3-4 and don't worry about that side's B-Gap.

I don't think that either player projects to be a sackmonster in the NFL, but make no mistake about it, Cam will play as a stud, game changing DL next year. The kind that will garner a lot of national attention.

Furls I agree with what you are saying about Cam, but if you are saying Clayborn is not effective against the run I think you are selling him short. He finished with 50% more tackles, double the sacks and double the tackles for loss compared to Cam. He just had a better year this season than Will Smith as a Senior. Kid can flat out ball.

[furls]

My observations on AC are somewhat limited due to my deployment this year. What I have seen has been very impressive. He is a great NCAA player. The difference I see between the two is that Clayborn has essentially maxed his frame at 6'3" 280, while Heyward at 6'6" 290 is just beginning to tape his enormous genetic gift. I can see Heyward at 6'6" 310-330, Heyward can play 3-4 and 4-3 as previously discussed, but at the next level I see Clayborn will primarily be of value on the strong side of a 4-3, I don't think he has the ridiculous quicks required for the weakside (Julius Peppers or Freeney).

That is just how I see it. Both are excellent players and both will likely go in the top 10-15, but I think Heyward has more value to more teams. There are also some possible character issues with AC:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3999939

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/colle ... 08088.html

etc. The NFL is pretty touchy about this stuff these days.

[dmiles]

While I don't know you personally Furls it's great having you back. Good stuff here gents...

[furls]

Thanks, I enjoyed your commentary on the Rose Bowl very much. I am also very envious.