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Evan Turner getting some national love

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Evan Turner getting some national love

Unread postby CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! » Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:33 pm

I've been hyping this kid for over a year now to my friends in NY who havent had the pleasure of watching him ball. This is more of a human interest piece, but its nice to see him get some pub.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/s ... id=4683505
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Re: Evan Turner getting some national love

Unread postby pup » Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:35 pm

Get the ball out of his hands. Let him run the point once someone with some handles gets it across half court. He is going to struggle against anyone willing to defend him and pressure him with a true point guard. Just like the Carolina game.

Also, needs to get some emotional checks and balances in place. Guy flat out loses it. Often.
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Re: Evan Turner getting some national love

Unread postby CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! » Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:38 pm

The UNC game really exposed some weaknesses. He struggled against a big team - in the NBA, every team is big, and every team has their Marcus Ginyard-type stopper.

Also, needs to get some emotional checks and balances in place. Guy flat out loses it. Often.


This. I've noticed that too. Matta's gotta get on him about that.
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Re: Evan Turner getting some national love

Unread postby pup » Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:01 am

Jeckyl and Hyde returned last night.

The other problem I have with Turner. His first half performances are usually brutal for some reason.

Another Trip Doub last night, even though Thad left him in for garbage time to get it.
5 first half turnovers.
Emotional elbow thrown at a Lipscomb player?
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Re: Evan Turner getting some national love

Unread postby CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! » Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:43 pm

National buzz getting stronger. Not only does Chad Ford currently rank him as the #2 overall pick, SI makes the case for him being National Player of the Year.

Bottom line: If he keeps this up, POY should be his, and the better debate might be where Turner's season would place in the modern history of college basketball.

Right now, Turner is averaging 18.6 points, 9.8 rebounds and 5.4 assists per game. However, if you exclude the seven-minute outing against Eastern Michigan (when he was injured) and his 20-minute return against Indiana, those averages jump to 20.7, 11.0 and 5.8. If Turner can maintain those standards (technically, he'd need about a 0.5 ppg bump in scoring), he will complete one of the most statistically improbable seasons in modern basketball history.

How rare is a 20/10/5 year in college hoops? According to Ohio State's sports information department, which consulted with Stats Inc., no Division I player has completed one since at least 1996. Stats Inc.'s best guess as to the last player to do it is Larry Bird at Indiana State in 1978-79, and that wasn't even in a major conference. Searching independently, the last player who did it in a top-tier league may have been Bill Walton at UCLA in 1972-73.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/w ... z0dvjFabjN

I've seen him compared to Brandon Roy, 90s Grant Hill, and other superstars. Kid's got a tremendous future.
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Re: Evan Turner getting some national love

Unread postby neoleo » Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:56 pm

CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! wrote:National buzz getting stronger. Not only does Chad Ford currently rank him as the #2 overall pick, SI makes the case for him being National Player of the Year.

Bottom line: If he keeps this up, POY should be his, and the better debate might be where Turner's season would place in the modern history of college basketball.

Right now, Turner is averaging 18.6 points, 9.8 rebounds and 5.4 assists per game. However, if you exclude the seven-minute outing against Eastern Michigan (when he was injured) and his 20-minute return against Indiana, those averages jump to 20.7, 11.0 and 5.8. If Turner can maintain those standards (technically, he'd need about a 0.5 ppg bump in scoring), he will complete one of the most statistically improbable seasons in modern basketball history.

How rare is a 20/10/5 year in college hoops? According to Ohio State's sports information department, which consulted with Stats Inc., no Division I player has completed one since at least 1996. Stats Inc.'s best guess as to the last player to do it is Larry Bird at Indiana State in 1978-79, and that wasn't even in a major conference. Searching independently, the last player who did it in a top-tier league may have been Bill Walton at UCLA in 1972-73.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/w ... z0dvjFabjN

I've seen him compared to Brandon Roy, 90s Grant Hill, and other superstars. Kid's got a tremendous future.


Glad to see him getting the press for POY. When you look at the stats, its not even close imo. I understand Wall getting it as the best player on the best team when all is equal but Turner's stats blow his away. As pointed out in the article, Turner's stats compare to all of the best candidates in their strongest category, meaning Turner is a combination of all of the best traits from the other top candidates.

A little OT here but I was thinking of this last night, does anybody see the possibility for William Buford to take over Turner's point guard role next season? I see no way that Sullinger doesn't start and if Matta keeps Lauderdale in the lineup too, that would leave Lighty, Buford and Deibler as your guards with one of them having to handle the ball. I suppose you could put Lauderdale on the bench (which I would love) and start incoming freshman Craft at PG, but then you're starting a true freshman at PG and Center. And that's not even considering if you start Thomas as I would say the top 5 talent wise on next year's team will be Buford, Lighty, Deiber, Sullinger and Thomas.
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Re: Evan Turner getting some national love

Unread postby CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! » Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:59 pm

I personally think Buford could test the draft waters. As it stands I think he can definitely crack the late 1st - early 2nd round territory.
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Re: Evan Turner getting some national love

Unread postby neoleo » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:05 pm

CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! wrote:I personally think Buford could test the draft waters. As it stands I think he can definitely crack the late 1st - early 2nd round territory.


I think so too, especially if he keeps up his hot streak that he's been on. I think a selling point for Matta to get him back could be to promise him Turner's role. I personally think he can handle it. He's not as good of a facilitator as he seems to look for his own shot too much, but he can rebound and get the team into the offense quickly, and he can create his own shot as well. If he just worked on the drive and kick, he could be on to something. Plus next year should be a little easier for the offense as they'll have the post option of Sullinger that they don't have this season.
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Re: Evan Turner getting some national love

Unread postby danwismar » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:36 pm

I've been giving these topics some thought, and the new article on the front page gets into next year a little bit...but just thinking out loud...

I too am afraid Buford might think he's ready for the NBA (I think he's wrong, of course), but the guy I'm worried about leaving is Lighty. He's been here four years, and although he has a year of eligibility, I do think he could make an NBA roster and make a contribution in the NBA fairly early, with his combination of defensive prowess and his overall athleticism and ups and ability to get to the rim. I have no insights on his intentions and haven't even heard much speculation, informed or otherwise, on the topic. I just think he might get enough good vibes from scouts (and/or agents) that he could consider going pro now...especially considering the probability that next season will necessarily be a "transitional" one.

I don't see any returning members of the current roster making a successful transition to point guard for next year....certainly no one that wouldn't have the same kind of problems with it that Turner has experienced this year. It's one thing to try to turn a "2" into a "1", but probably loony to attempt to turn a "3-4" combo guy (Buford) into a "1". I don't see anything close to the necessary skill set in Diebler...or really Lighty either.

So if it's a transition year...so be it. Decide which of the two incoming point guards....Lenzelle Smith or Aaron Craft (or some of both?) works best in the system...and go ahead and take your lumps getting a freshman point guard over the experience hump now instead of later. Smith is reportedly the better passer and shooter...Craft the better defender. I haven't seen more than highlight video on either, so it beats the hell out of me. In his favor I guess is the fact that Craft has played AAU ball with Sullinger, Weatherspoon and Sibert.

It could be one of those years like 06-07 when the young talent struggles early and ends up starting to peak late in the year. For sure it'll be fun to watch regardless of the W-L record.
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Re: Evan Turner getting some national love

Unread postby neoleo » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:53 pm

wiz1001 wrote:I've been giving these topics some thought, and the new article on the front page gets into next year a little bit...but just thinking out loud...

I too am afraid Buford might think he's ready for the NBA (I think he's wrong, of course), but the guy I'm worried about leaving is Lighty. He's been here four years, and although he has a year of eligibility, I do think he could make an NBA roster and make a contribution in the NBA fairly early, with his combination of defensive prowess and his overall athleticism and ups and ability to get to the rim. I have no insights on his intentions and haven't even heard much speculation, informed or otherwise, on the topic. I just think he might get enough good vibes from scouts (and/or agents) that he could consider going pro now...especially considering the probability that next season will necessarily be a "transitional" one.

I don't see any returning members of the current roster making a successful transition to point guard for next year....certainly no one that wouldn't have the same kind of problems with it that Turner has experienced this year. It's one thing to try to turn a "2" into a "1", but probably loony to attempt to turn a "3-4" combo guy (Buford) into a "1". I don't see anything close to the necessary skill set in Diebler...or really Lighty either.

So if it's a transition year...so be it. Decide which of the two incoming point guards....Lenzelle Smith or Aaron Craft (or some of both?) works best in the system...and go ahead and take your lumps getting a freshman point guard over the experience hump now instead of later. Smith is reportedly the better passer and shooter...Craft the better defender. I haven't seen more than highlight video on either, so it beats the hell out of me. In his favor I guess is the fact that Craft has played AAU ball with Sullinger, Weatherspoon and Sibert.

It could be one of those years like 06-07 when the young talent struggles early and ends up starting to peak late in the year. For sure it'll be fun to watch regardless of the W-L record.


With Deibler, Lighty and Lauderdale being seniors and Buford probably being in his last year (if they all come back), I don't see next year as a transitional year. Especially if you consider Sullinger and Thomas as having NBA talent with the potential to leave early.

I heard early on after Lighty's injury last season that he may not be interested in an extra year of eligibility, but since he went through the trouble of recouping that year, I don't think he leaves early. I still think he's a borderline NBA guy just because he offers nothing on offense in NBA terms (he can drive but he's not a good finisher and he's a putrid free throw shooter). I don't see him leaving early for a life in the D League.

I don't think Buford is ready for the NBA either, but supposedly he thought about it last year. This same mentality is what would worry me about him running the offense (he seems to think very highly of himself and may not be too worried about others getting their shots). Make no mistake though, Buford is a 2, not a hybrid 3-4. In fact, I think he's more of a natural guard than Turner is, as Turner was a 3 before this year and will be a 2-3 in the league. Out of all the options for next year, I prefer a Buford, Deibler, Lighty, Sullinger, Lauderdale/Thomas starting lineup with Lauderdale/Thomas and Craft/Smith as your first options off the bench.

I guess my point is this, with the way Matta uses his subs, I would try to get my best five on the floor for as much as possible. I don't see one of the true freshman PG's being in the best 5, and if one of them is logging heavy minutes as a starter, it's leaving one of the best 5 on the bench for long stretches of time. I see the true freshman point guards being used like PJ Hill and Jeremie Simmons this season.

Edited to add props for the front page article. Good stuff there!
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Re: Evan Turner getting some national love

Unread postby danwismar » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:12 pm

Your point about Buford being a 2, at least in the long term, is a fair one, Leo.

And by calling next year a transitional one, I'm not chalking it up as a failure in advance. It's just a fact that we'll have one group of guys in their last year...and a second group in their first year...and not a lot in between...in other words, transitional by definition...not as a premature judgment on its quality.

No argument that if we have Craft or Smith on the floor a lot, we're not playing our best five guys. If we get competent point guard-type play from somebody else, I'll be happy. I just don't see where it's going to come from.
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Re: Evan Turner getting some national love

Unread postby neoleo » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:44 pm

wiz1001 wrote: And by calling next year a transitional one, I'm not chalking it up as a failure in advance. It's just a fact that we'll have one group of guys in their last year...and a second group in their first year...and not a lot in between...in other words, transitional by definition...not as a premature judgment on its quality.


I see. I was reading into it that you were chalking it up and we might as well develop the point guards. Now I understand, and I do agree.

wiz1001 wrote: No argument that if we have Craft or Smith on the floor a lot, we're not playing our best five guys. If we get competent point guard-type play from somebody else, I'll be happy. I just don't see where it's going to come from.


I see this point as well. I guess I'm just throwing Buford into the mix because I don't see competent point guard play coming from either of the incoming freshman either, at least not enough to warrant starters minutes and to sit one of Buford, Lighty, Deibler, or Thomas.

Let's just say I'm not expecting Mike Conley play out of the freshman but I really, really, really don't want to see Brandon Fuss-Cheatham play out of them either.
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Re: Evan Turner getting some national love

Unread postby pup » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:45 pm

Did anyone expect Mike Conley level of play out of Mike Conley?
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Re: Evan Turner getting some national love

Unread postby neoleo » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:58 pm

Pup wrote:Did anyone expect Mike Conley level of play out of Mike Conley?


Rhetorical question I'm sure. But Conley wasn't just a throw-in that happened to turn himself into a one-and-done lottery pick. He was highly rated five star prospect that just matured quicker than anticipated. Smith is rated higher than Craft but by all accounts he's a combo guard and not a true point. That means your best option for a true point would be Craft, who's not rated or thought of as highly as Conley was coming out of HS.

I think a good comparison would be Jamar Butler. Butler was a four star by Rivals, 14th point guard and 69th overall.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball ... tler-12859

Craft is a three star, 25th point guard and 104th overall.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball ... raft-82745

(Conley was 3rd PG and 18th player overall for the record).

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball ... nley-22352

As a freshman, Jamar Butler averaged 19.1 minutes, 3.6 points, 2.3 assists and 1.0 turnover in 32 games (12 starts). I think those numbers would mark the ceiling for Craft as a freshman. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think we need to have somebody else step up to handle the point, at least for 20 minutes per game. Me personally, I'd probably be willing to give those minutes to Buford over having a freshman combo guard backup a freshman point guard.
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Re: Evan Turner getting some national love

Unread postby pup » Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:22 pm

Cool and Gracias.

Didn't think Conley was a throw in, but didn't remember him being that highly rated coming in either.
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Re: Evan Turner getting some national love

Unread postby jordan kramer » Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:18 pm

if Buford stays and assumes the point guard role, he for sure needs to work hard on his ball handling and court vision a ton this offseason. it also means that they are making the best player on the team play out of position and might hurt his jump shot (which is hot and cold anyways) and overall offensive scoring game
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Re: Evan Turner getting some national love

Unread postby osucrazy18 » Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:08 am

turner will stay. i promise. inside sources
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Re: Evan Turner getting some national love

Unread postby neoleo » Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:10 am

osucrazy18 wrote:turner will stay. i promise. inside sources


I'll drive to Columbus and buy you a beer if this holds true.

Does this have anything to do with the Villain allegedly having relations with that cute point guard from the women's team?
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Re: Evan Turner getting some national love

Unread postby neoleo » Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:21 am

jordan kramer wrote:if Buford stays and assumes the point guard role, he for sure needs to work hard on his ball handling and court vision a ton this offseason. it also means that they are making the best player on the team play out of position and might hurt his jump shot (which is hot and cold anyways) and overall offensive scoring game

Who do you have playing point guard next year? It's not just you Jordan (and that wasn't meant to be confrontational), but I seriously can't believe that us fans are counting on TWO incoming freshman to come in and entirely take over the point guard role. On a team with some decently high expectations no less.

I'd say the odds off Buford (or even Lighty) successfully improving his handle with an off season of preparing for the point guard role is much higher than the odds of these true freshman taking over the team and leading them to anything meaningful.

Even potential POY Turner had to use this past off season to prepare for the role. Remember that we started PJ freaking Hill last year because Turner wasn't ready to take over the point. Today Buford isn't ready. But I'd put my money on Buford improving enough to handle it after an off season of work before I counted on two true freshman (not named Mike Conley) doing a good enough job to get us deep into the tournament.

I've been wrong before and I actually hope I am on this point. I just don't see it. Even super frosh Conley had Jamar Butler there to help him in the back court and Butler had just led a team to a Big Ten championship as a sophomore.
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Re: Evan Turner getting some national love

Unread postby jordan kramer » Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:13 pm

NEOLeo wrote:
jordan kramer wrote:if Buford stays and assumes the point guard role, he for sure needs to work hard on his ball handling and court vision a ton this offseason. it also means that they are making the best player on the team play out of position and might hurt his jump shot (which is hot and cold anyways) and overall offensive scoring game

Who do you have playing point guard next year? It's not just you Jordan (and that wasn't meant to be confrontational), but I seriously can't believe that us fans are counting on TWO incoming freshman to come in and entirely take over the point guard role. On a team with some decently high expectations no less.

I'd say the odds off Buford (or even Lighty) successfully improving his handle with an off season of preparing for the point guard role is much higher than the odds of these true freshman taking over the team and leading them to anything meaningful.

Even potential POY Turner had to use this past off season to prepare for the role. Remember that we started PJ freaking Hill last year because Turner wasn't ready to take over the point. Today Buford isn't ready. But I'd put my money on Buford improving enough to handle it after an off season of work before I counted on two true freshman (not named Mike Conley) doing a good enough job to get us deep into the tournament.

I've been wrong before and I actually hope I am on this point. I just don't see it. Even super frosh Conley had Jamar Butler there to help him in the back court and Butler had just led a team to a Big Ten championship as a sophomore.

no offense taken at all. if i had to bet my money on it right now, i would bet that Buford jumps to the NBA after this year. he tested the waters last year and i think he has good upside and can be a late first rounder. therefore, i believe Matta may throw one of those touted incoming freshman into the fire and start one at the point next year. if, however i'm wrong, i'm reluctantly ok with Buford running the point next year if he stays.
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Re: Evan Turner getting some national love

Unread postby furls » Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:34 pm

Next year's team will be excellent regardless of who stays or goes. Sully's game translates well to the NCAA, Thomas will be lethal, Craft will be fine, and the 'Spoon is underrated.

Now if we get anyone.... anyone to stay, next year could be special.
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