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Q:In Which games was Tressel conservative w/Troy Smith as QB

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Q:In Which games was Tressel conservative w/Troy Smith as QB

Unread postby JCoz » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:04 pm

Looking for responses?
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Re: Q:In Which games was Tressel conservative w/Troy Smith as QB

Unread postby jb » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:14 pm

JCoz wrote:Looking for responses?



The games he kept starting Zwick when he obviously sucked?
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Re: Q:In Which games was Tressel conservative w/Troy Smith as QB

Unread postby JCoz » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:22 pm

JB wrote:
JCoz wrote:Looking for responses?



The games he kept starting Zwick when he obviously sucked?


JB, you know that wasn't what I meant...

To be clear, I honestly do not have a clear point I think is already proved...I am trying to see if he really is that QB centric on playcalling/plans....

Open discussion....
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Re: Q:In Which games was Tressel conservative w/Troy Smith as QB

Unread postby pup » Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:24 am

Man. Not sure where to go with this one. It seems to me it opened up pretty quick with Smith and he wasn't all that conservative with him ever. But he wasn't taking snaps as a true frosh or sophomore. With a better offensive line and running game. You know, just in case we are making the case for Troy v Pryor.
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Re: Q:In Which games was Tressel conservative w/Troy Smith as QB

Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:36 am

Pup wrote:Man. Not sure where to go with this one. It seems to me it opened up pretty quick with Smith and he wasn't all that conservative with him ever. But he wasn't taking snaps as a true frosh or sophomore. With a better offensive line and running game. You know, just in case we are making the case for Troy v Pryor.


Yeah, I'm not sure where this is going either.

It didn't take long for most to realize Troy could, and did make every throw on the field.

If you allowed Pryor that leeway at this point you'd be half nuts, because of a worse line, inexperienced receivers, little run game and most of all, there aren't too many thrown Pryor CAN make. At least to this point.

I think Tressell proved that year that he'll open things up, but you're gonna have to show him something. There's a real good chance Pryor is throwing the ball during the week like he does on Saturdays, and that's not really anything to build around.

So, JT's conservatism might be a litle overrated, but he's certainly going to error on the conservative side.
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Re: Q:In Which games was Tressel conservative w/Troy Smith as QB

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:19 am

Troy's biggest mistakes were missing on the open big plays receivers. He seemed to lack consistency on the 30+ big passes.

One thing he rarely did was force the ball into double and triple coverage b/c he assumed his OSU wide outs would just make the play.

He also recognized early on that you can rely on your defense if you failed on offense from time to time and he preserved field position better.
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Re: Q:In Which games was Tressel conservative w/Troy Smith as QB

Unread postby JCoz » Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:03 am

Pup wrote:Man. Not sure where to go with this one. It seems to me it opened up pretty quick with Smith and he wasn't all that conservative with him ever. But he wasn't taking snaps as a true frosh or sophomore. With a better offensive line and running game. You know, just in case we are making the case for Troy v Pryor.


I'm not sure the Oline and Running game were much better in 04 and 05 than they are this season....
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Re: Q:In Which games was Tressel conservative w/Troy Smith as QB

Unread postby danwismar » Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:17 pm

The difference is accuracy. Troy could put it on target....anywhere...with some zip on it. Not 100% of the time, obviously. But he was uncanny accurate 90% of the time.

Pryor...not so much. Will it ever come with Pryor? Not sure. Probably not enough to put him in Troy's category where accuracy is concerned. Ever.

Great receivers...one of the best groups ever in 2005 (before Santonio left)...helped Troy (and JT) a lot.

I realize I'm reciting the obvious here, but you can't over-emphasize passing accuracy when you evaluate QB's, IMO.
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Re: Q:In Which games was Tressel conservative w/Troy Smith as QB

Unread postby Toxicadam » Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:58 am

I think Smith was a more effective runner, too. If he didn't have anything he would run it off-tackle (when a gap was created by the outside rush) and bounce it outside. Pryor is more apt to roll outside of the box and then turn it up field. Lots of wasted movement.
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Re: Q:In Which games was Tressel conservative w/Troy Smith as QB

Unread postby leadpipe » Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:39 pm

Toxicadam wrote:I think Smith was a more effective runner, too. If he didn't have anything he would run it off-tackle (when a gap was created by the outside rush) and bounce it outside. Pryor is more apt to roll outside of the box and then turn it up field. Lots of wasted movement.


Well, it's a hell of a lot easier when teams respect the pass.
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Re: Q:In Which games was Tressel conservative w/Troy Smith as QB

Unread postby JCoz » Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:22 pm

Lead Pipe wrote:
Toxicadam wrote:I think Smith was a more effective runner, too. If he didn't have anything he would run it off-tackle (when a gap was created by the outside rush) and bounce it outside. Pryor is more apt to roll outside of the box and then turn it up field. Lots of wasted movement.


Well, it's a hell of a lot easier when teams respect the pass.


And vice-versa....This was one thing Troy got from the beginning that Pryor is only starting to understand....

If He plays like last week, understanding to take 10 on the ground when they give it, they won't be so aggressive on the pass rush and everything will open up for the kid when they have to play him honest...
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Re: Q:In Which games was Tressel conservative w/Troy Smith as QB

Unread postby leadpipe » Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:55 pm

JCoz wrote:
Lead Pipe wrote:
Toxicadam wrote:I think Smith was a more effective runner, too. If he didn't have anything he would run it off-tackle (when a gap was created by the outside rush) and bounce it outside. Pryor is more apt to roll outside of the box and then turn it up field. Lots of wasted movement.


Well, it's a hell of a lot easier when teams respect the pass.


And vice-versa....This was one thing Troy got from the beginning that Pryor is only starting to understand....

If He plays like last week, understanding to take 10 on the ground when they give it, they won't be so aggressive on the pass rush and everything will open up for the kid when they have to play him honest...


Only to a degree right now.

The best way you can make them respect the pass is not with your running - it's being able to pass.

Troy's advantage was that he was VERY capable in both disciplines.
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Re: Q:In Which games was Tressel conservative w/Troy Smith as QB

Unread postby JCoz » Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:22 am

Lead Pipe wrote:
JCoz wrote:
Lead Pipe wrote:
Toxicadam wrote:I think Smith was a more effective runner, too. If he didn't have anything he would run it off-tackle (when a gap was created by the outside rush) and bounce it outside. Pryor is more apt to roll outside of the box and then turn it up field. Lots of wasted movement.


Well, it's a hell of a lot easier when teams respect the pass.


And vice-versa....This was one thing Troy got from the beginning that Pryor is only starting to understand....

If He plays like last week, understanding to take 10 on the ground when they give it, they won't be so aggressive on the pass rush and everything will open up for the kid when they have to play him honest...


Only to a degree right now.

The best way you can make them respect the pass is not with your running - it's being able to pass.

Troy's advantage was that he was VERY capable in both disciplines.


Fair enough Lead, but if the best way for TP tp keep dirves alive is to take ten on the ground, like it has been all season, and he learns to TAKE it, it changes things IMO....I've seen way to many passes with greener pastures right in front of his face than I care to remember.....

Bottom line is that he HAS an advantage on the ground IF he is assertive and decisive about it, and I think just that would make us tough to beat....
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Re: Q:In Which games was Tressel conservative w/Troy Smith as QB

Unread postby JCoz » Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:26 am

JCoz wrote:
Lead Pipe wrote:
JCoz wrote:
Lead Pipe wrote:
Toxicadam wrote:I think Smith was a more effective runner, too. If he didn't have anything he would run it off-tackle (when a gap was created by the outside rush) and bounce it outside. Pryor is more apt to roll outside of the box and then turn it up field. Lots of wasted movement.


Well, it's a hell of a lot easier when teams respect the pass.


And vice-versa....This was one thing Troy got from the beginning that Pryor is only starting to understand....

If He plays like last week, understanding to take 10 on the ground when they give it, they won't be so aggressive on the pass rush and everything will open up for the kid when they have to play him honest...


Only to a degree right now.

The best way you can make them respect the pass is not with your running - it's being able to pass.

Troy's advantage was that he was VERY capable in both disciplines.


Fair enough Lead, but if the best way for TP tp keep dirves alive is to take ten on the ground, like it has been all season, and he learns to TAKE it, it changes things IMO....I've seen way to many passes with greener pastures right in front of his face than I care to remember.....

Bottom line is that he HAS an advantage on the ground IF he is assertive and decisive about it, and I think just that would make us tough to beat....


I mean, half this season was spent NOT passing well AND not taking advantage of his natural abilities....to me we have been dealing with a Pryor who was not only struggling to improve on his weaknesses but ALSO not taking advantage of his stregths...not Tress not utilizing him, the kid not PLAYING....

To me, THAT is the biggest difference between him and troy at this stage...Troy never let his brain get in the way of a 1st down, if you get my meaning....
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Re: Q:In Which games was Tressel conservative w/Troy Smith as QB

Unread postby leadpipe » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:00 am

JCoz wrote:
JCoz wrote:
Lead Pipe wrote:
JCoz wrote:
Lead Pipe wrote:
Toxicadam wrote:I think Smith was a more effective runner, too. If he didn't have anything he would run it off-tackle (when a gap was created by the outside rush) and bounce it outside. Pryor is more apt to roll outside of the box and then turn it up field. Lots of wasted movement.


Well, it's a hell of a lot easier when teams respect the pass.


And vice-versa....This was one thing Troy got from the beginning that Pryor is only starting to understand....

If He plays like last week, understanding to take 10 on the ground when they give it, they won't be so aggressive on the pass rush and everything will open up for the kid when they have to play him honest...


Only to a degree right now.

The best way you can make them respect the pass is not with your running - it's being able to pass.

Troy's advantage was that he was VERY capable in both disciplines.


Fair enough Lead, but if the best way for TP tp keep dirves alive is to take ten on the ground, like it has been all season, and he learns to TAKE it, it changes things IMO....I've seen way to many passes with greener pastures right in front of his face than I care to remember.....

Bottom line is that he HAS an advantage on the ground IF he is assertive and decisive about it, and I think just that would make us tough to beat....


I mean, half this season was spent NOT passing well AND not taking advantage of his natural abilities....to me we have been dealing with a Pryor who was not only struggling to improve on his weaknesses but ALSO not taking advantage of his stregths...not Tress not utilizing him, the kid not PLAYING....

To me, THAT is the biggest difference between him and troy at this stage...Troy never let his brain get in the way of a 1st down, if you get my meaning....


Said this after about week three, and it's the same thing you're saying now in so many words, that is, A Pryor that is worried about Sundays isn't going to be as good as one who will do everything to win on Saturday.

He can't sacrifice what he does best (run) in order to concentrate on his weakest facet, especially in key games.

To the specific point of our recent Pryor vs. Troy exchange, this is the main difference - one player had balance, and one currently does not.

Easier to defend the latter.
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Re: Q:In Which games was Tressel conservative w/Troy Smith as QB

Unread postby Mcreek » Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:22 pm

It didn't take long for most to realize Troy could, and did make every throw on the field.


Correct! Troy Smith could make any throw. His arm strength and accuracy was that good. No OSU QB in History had his skill set. His only weakness was his height.

Pryor is an athlete playing QB with Cornelius Greene passing skills.
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