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Let the debate and bitching begin!

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Let the debate and bitching begin!

Unread postby consigliere » Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:42 pm

One of Florida or Michigan are going to be crying this time tomorrow.

Danielson on CBS during the game laid it out nicely. Florida deserves the bid.
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Unread postby dpdad » Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:30 pm

I think Florida will get the nod. But I also think the Wolverines are a better overall team than the Gators.

It will probably come down to the human polls that make up the BCS. Will enough voters jump UF from #4 to #2? I think they will. Most of the country doesn't want a UM - OSU rematch.

I believe that OSU will defeat either Florida or Michigan in the title game, regardless of which team is picked. But I think an OSU - UM rematch would be a closer game. I would pick the Buckeyes over the Gators by two TDs, easy.
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Unread postby consigliere » Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:56 pm

The SEC would go into Swerbian meltdown proportions if Florida does not get the bid.

But, it is going to be very tough. They have a lot of ground in the polls to makeup on Michigan. In the last Harris poll, Florida was 86 points behind Michigan. In the last coaches poll, Florida was 40 points behind Michigan.

My hope here, is the voters do what is right and give Florida the bid. They deserve it. Florida will probably have to get to within at least 10-15 points of Michigan in both polls to have a shot, assuming they take the lead by .01 in the computers.
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Unread postby jjgmyers » Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:09 am

I heard something out of Vegas that if Florida and Michigan played on a neutral field ... Florida would be 6 point favorites. That's the true indicator of the better overall team.
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Unread postby pup » Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:11 am

It is actually an indication that there is a bigger scUM betting group than Florida.

Edit: I misread Joe's post. I heard the same radio show last night and it said Michigan was a 6 point favorite.
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Unread postby swerb » Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:36 am

I think Florida will get the nod. But I also think the Wolverines are a better overall team than the Gators.

It will probably come down to the human polls that make up the BCS. Will enough voters jump UF from #4 to #2? I think they will. Most of the country doesn't want a UM - OSU rematch.

dp, I agree completely. Ultimately, I think Michigan will be hurt by not being on TV the last two weeks. Over the same stretch, Florida went into Fla St and won against a very tough defense, and beat a very good Arkansas team. All the while, we were forced to hear the talking heads ramble on about how good the SEC was and how tough the Gators schedule was.

Ultimately, I think thats the difference. And Florida noses out scUM by a ridiculously close margin.

I heard something out of Vegas that if Florida and Michigan played on a neutral field ... Florida would be 6 point favorites. That's the true indicator of the better overall team.

Joe, I can't see that. No way in hell Florida is layin 6 to scUM on a neutral field. Michigan -1 or -2 ...
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Unread postby furls » Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:09 am

THis all boils down to what should happen and what will happen.

What should happen is that the two best teams in the nation should play each other. What will happen is that the voters will determine this by using arguments that undermine the system.

Michigan is a better team than Florida, PERIOD. If someone wanted to give me Michigan -6 in that game, I would take it. Chris Leak sucks and Michigan's run defense (in spite of what OSU did to them) is incredible. I think that the gators would score less than 10 on them. Florida's offense is a JOKE.

The fact that OSU has beat scUM once already, and that they do not care to see a rematch, should not be relevant. That is not the criteria. What the fans of college football want to see (rematch or not) is not relevant either. All that is relevant is that the two best teams play each other.

I really don't want to see a rematch, I saw the first game in person. The first game was not really a three point game, without a few flukey turnovers the final score of that game is not close. In a rematch the Buckeyes would win decisively because Jim Tressel out coaches LLLLLoyd Carr every time they play, can you imagine how bad it would be if he actually got to scrimmage them first?

I would prefer to see Florida just because the more teams that OSU beats the more credible their title would be, but what I (or anyone else) want should not be relevant, this should be about who is better.
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Unread postby swerb » Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:32 am

Furls, I could not agree more with all aspects of that post.

Florida did not impress me at all yesterday, or all year for that matter. And I've seen almost every snap of 3 of their last 4 games. Leak is very overrated, even moreso than Henne, who I think has a better skill set.

Florida's front four is very, very good. As are their safeties and recievers. But they are not as good of an overall team as Michigan, and I think the Bucks would take them apart at the seams out in AZ.

Im just so sick of hearing the SEC crap. Part of me wants to see the two best teams play, which would make for a rematch.

Part of me wants to see the Buckeyes beat Florida 38-13, legitimizing them further, and shutting up the southern half of the country.
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Unread postby swerb » Sun Dec 03, 2006 12:12 pm

http://cfn.scout.com/2/596883.html

Column by Fiutak at www.collegefootballnews.com called "Why Florida Should Play Ohio State".

In it, he devises a formula that pits scUM, Florida, Louisville, and Boise against each other. He actually has Louisville as more worthy of getting the nod than Michigan, but both behind the Gators.

Another classic example of stats and numbers not bearing out what the eyes see.
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Unread postby Big Lu » Sun Dec 03, 2006 12:25 pm

Florida's national title chances rely on voters
By Mark Schlabach -- Dec. 3, 2006, 9:34 AM ET
ESPN.com

So here are the cold, hard facts when comparing the Gators and Wolverines:

1. Florida beat nine teams that are projected to play in bowl games. Michigan beat six.

2. Michigan beat five teams that finished the season with losing records. Florida beat two teams with sub-.500 records.

3. Florida's 12 Division I-A opponents had a combined record of 89-57. Michigan's 12 opponents had a combined record of 84-61.

4. Michigan's best win is considered a 27-13 victory over Wisconsin on Sept. 23. The Badgers are 11-1 and have climbed to No. 7 in the AP Top 25 poll, despite having played only one ranked opponent -- the Wolverines -- the entire season.

5. The 12 teams Florida defeated finished the season with 11 combined wins against opponents which were ranked in the AP Top 25 poll at the time the game was played. The opponents Michigan defeated claim just three wins against ranked teams (Notre Dame beat Penn State. Indiana beat Iowa. Vanderbilt beat Georgia. The Nittany Lions, Hawkeyes and Bulldogs, it should be noted, haven't been ranked in seven weeks).

6. The Gators went 3-1 against ranked opponents, beating then-No. 13 Tennessee, No. 9 LSU and No. 8 Arkansas and losing at No. 11 Auburn. The Wolverines went 1-1 against ranked opponents, beating a highly overrated No. 2 Notre Dame team (that lost to Michigan and USC by a combined total of 46 points) and losing at No. 1 Ohio State 42-39 on Nov. 18.

7. The Gators' average margin of victory against Division I-A teams was 13.5 points. They won seven games by 14 points or fewer, six by less than 10. The Wolverines' average margin of victory was 17.3 points. They won six games by 14 points or fewer, two by less than 10.

8. The Gators played Western Carolina, a Division I-AA team, and won by 62 points. The Wolverines played Ball State, which should be a I-AA team, and won by eight.

9. Since the Wolverines last played and lost at Ohio State, the Gators won at Florida State (The Seminoles are 6-6, but rivalry games are tough to win. Just ask USC coach Pete Carroll) and then beat the No. 8 Razorbacks, who defeated then-No. 2 Auburn and No. 13 Tennessee by 17 points each.

10. Michigan didn't win the Big Ten; Florida won the SEC. Winning your conference should be a prerequisite for playing in the national championship.

Arkansas coach Houston Nutt said the Gators should get the chance to play Ohio State.

"This is the toughest conference in America," Nutt said. "I really wish everybody had the opportunity to go to Auburn, to go to Florida, to go to Arkansas, to go to LSU or let us come to their place. You do that and play that schedule. It's a hard schedule, really hard. It's hard to get to this game. I just feel like it's absolutely one of the most difficult things to do, to have one loss in this league."


There are 17 Division I-A conference champs and yes, Michigan is not one of them! If Michigan is selected to play OSU, how does a #2 (in their conference) get a chance to be #1 nationally (if they win!)? I'm sure the BCS could pick some other #1 conference champ (Florida) which really seems logical! But wait, we are talking about the BCS . . . logical??

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Unread postby furls » Sun Dec 03, 2006 1:39 pm

Logical and BCS should never EVER be used in the same sentence, or even post.
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Unread postby Big Lu » Sun Dec 03, 2006 1:49 pm

:lol:
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Unread postby Guest » Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:48 pm

It has to be, and will be Florida
Michigan had their shot and lost.
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Unread postby consigliere » Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:25 pm

I'm hoping for Florida. I think they deserve it, plus I don't want any tainted BS if we play Michigan and blow them out and Florida blows out ND in the Sugar Bowl. We beat Michigan....so if we play Florida and beat them, there is no tainted BS.

Also, we've never, ever played Florida. That would be awesome. And, on a personal note, my grandfather was a professor at Florida and is a HUGE Gators fan....and he'll be in town over Xmas. Oh the smack!!!!

Florida is #2 in the coaches poll by a pretty significant margin....#2 in the AP poll by 3 points. It will be really interesting what happens with the Harris poll and computers. Florida has 1/3 of the vote on their side with the coaches.....
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Unread postby Guest » Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:37 pm

According to this, there will be NO REMATCH

http://bulletin.myspace.com/index.cfm?f ... fc2c57c50e
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Unread postby consigliere » Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:45 pm

Yes, per LA Times, the BCS is set:

The BCS bowl lineup is now expected to be:

Title: Florida vs. Ohio State

Rose: USC vs. Michigan.

Sugar: Notre Dame vs. LSU.

Orange: Louisville vs. Wake Forest.

Fiesta: Oklahoma vs. Boise State.
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Unread postby GreatGoo » Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:03 pm

I'm sure I'll be hated by a few people around here after this. :lol:

In my opinion there is only one team in the country that can beat the bucks and that's Michigan. Florida will absolutely get killed by the bucks. Their field goal kicker is something like 4/14 in FG attempts. And their offense is nothing special.

I think a lot of buckeye fans are scared to play Michigan again. I can see all the buckeye fans crying after the loss saying that the rematch was a scam. I really think they could beat the bucks in a neutral site. Personally from an entertainment stand point i want to see a rematch. I want to see another close game. Florida wont provide that.

All you buck fans keep saying you want to see Florida and that they reserve it. That's makes as much sense as poop on a plate. The better team is Michigan and everyone knows it. I just think you all are scared of the possible rematch.

FYI - the 1st game i rooted for the bucks. If there is a rematch I'm rooting for Michigan. :rambo:
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Unread postby consigliere » Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:30 pm

greatgoo wrote:I'm sure I'll be hated by a few people around here after this. :lol:

In my opinion there is only one team in the country that can beat the bucks and that's Michigan. Florida will absolutely get killed by the bucks. Their field goal kicker is something like 4/14 in FG attempts. And their offense is nothing special.


First off, if you ask me, the one team inthe country who can maybe beat the Bucks is LSU.

As for Michigan, they had their chance. They lost. Sure, if they Bucks and Michigan played 10 times, Michigan may win 3 times. Same with some other schools.

But, you get ONE SHOT. Michigan blew it. Is Michigan better? Maybe. But, the difference is, FLorida hasn't played Ohio State, so we won't know until Jan 8. I think the Bucks own Florida in that game by two TDs.....but I think the same thing would have happened if we played Michigan.
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Unread postby furls » Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:50 pm

Michigan is the second best team in the country. I have seen them play, watched them closely and tooted their horn since long before anyone else on this site. Nothing about that has changed. I think Michigan would provide a much better game than Florida, but at this point that is a moot point.

I actually think that the rematch wouldnt be as close as the original. The Buckeyes learned alot of things from the first game and Tressel is a much better coach and game planner than Lloyd Carr. The first game was close in score only and if it were not for a couple of blown snaps, that game would not be close at all.

Things the Buckeyes learned?

1.) Their front four could get pressure.
2.) Michigan's secondary is GARBAGE, and Leon Hall is overrated.
3.) Michigan cannot stop Ohio State from running the ball without putting an eighth in the box.
4.) Chad Henne is incapable of hitting open receivers down the field on any kind of regular basis.
5.) Michigan's linebackers do not move well laterally.
6.) The Buckeyes learned what I said, Michigan uses zone blocking a lot and given fifty days I am pretty sure that they could be coached to stop turning their shoulders laterally and pursue the ball with a square front, fill gaps, and stay at home.

Anyone know how many times Ohio State punted in that game against that "great" Michigan defense? Three. In another game, Ohio State could potentially put 50 on Michigan.

I don't think anyone in Columbus fears Michigan. I think that most in Columbus like playing this game one time per year, that is the beauty of it, FINALITY. Next year scUM has a chance at the Buckeyes again, without Troy Smith and at home with a senior QB and a Senior RB, but you know what, they will still lose the game as long as the talent level is similar and Tressel coaches Ohio State and Carr coaches Michigan.
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Unread postby Guest » Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:32 pm

Florida won their conference
scUm didn't
That's where the debate ends for me.
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Unread postby swerb » Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:50 am

I heard something out of Vegas that if Florida and Michigan played on a neutral field ... Florida would be 6 point favorites. That's the true indicator of the better overall team.


Buckeyes are -8 ... on a neutral field. They were only -7 at home versus Michigan, which means they would have been -4 (likely) on a neutral field vs Michigan.

This all backs my contention that Michigan would be favored over Florida on a neutral field, most likely by at least a FG.
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Unread postby yargs7 » Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:32 pm

Yes the BCS is flawed but...IMAGINE A WORLD WITHOUT THE BCS...

You get 12-0 Ohio State playing a 2 loss USC team in the Rose Bowl.

Let's say OSU loses and Michigan and Florida win their bowl games. Then what? The voters determine who is #1?

Michigan controlled their own destiny and failed to get the job done. They lost their right to bitch on November 18th in Columbus. Florida went on the road and beat their rival and then beat a very good Arkansas team to win their conference. They deserve to be in the National Championship.
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Unread postby consigliere » Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:41 pm

Sorry folks, but I shed no tears for Michigan....and I think it is INSANE how people are defending them when they already lost to Ohio State. I get the BCS is supposed to put the two best teams together.....but that OSU Michigan game was a playoff game. Loser is eliminated.

So, juts because the two best teams already played once, they should play again??? I mean, it would be like when the Browns played the Broncos in 86 and 87....were we better than the Gianta and Redskins? Probably. So, should we have gotten another shot? No. Why? Because we blew it by losing the playoff game....just like Michigan did to OSU on Nov 18th.
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Unread postby furls » Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:11 pm

but that OSU Michigan game was a playoff game. Loser is eliminated.


Actually it was not a playoff, and that is the problem. I will shed no tears for Michigan, although I firmly believe they are the second best team in the country. They had their chance to take their destiny in their own hands and win the national title, and they blew it.

They did prove one thing out there that saturday; that there is at least one team in college football that is better than they are and isn't that the point of the BCS? To find the BEST team in the country. Ohio State eliminated Michigan from that race and that matter is decided. Florida is now the only team in the country that can make any reasonable claim.
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