Can we stop calling Weis a "Guru" yet?

[furls]

Shouldn't this guy be forced to win a big game of some type before we annoint him?

The score is 21-3 and his offense and defense look outplayed and outcoached (as they usually do in big games). How long until he is the next Ty Willingham? He hasn't beat a team that has finished the season in the top 25 yet, but he is a great coach; ask him, he'll tell you.

[Guest]

Their defense is a joke

[gdbenz]

The truth of the matter is that Notre Dame is a fraud, existing solely on the good reputation of Charlie Weis. The last three teams of merit that ND has played--OSU (last season), Michigan and USC all have hammered the Fighting Irish thoroughly. Notre Dame is not a Top 10 team by a long shot. If Boise State's schedule is suspect, what to make of Notre Dame's?

[furls]

thought we would revisit this for fun!

What is more fun than kicking a pompous ass while he is down?

[FUDU]

I've been thinking about starting a thread about this very same thing in the NFL forum.

mainly b/c of two names...Marvin Lewis and Bill Billick.

Supposed defensive wiz in Lewis and offensive genius in Billick.

I think it is very obvious right now that both relied heavily on superior talent in their prior gigs to gain those premature labels.

Both had to of the more recent juggernauts on their respective sides of the ball and neither have come close to duplicating that with their current squads, hell Billick has had what 9 year at Bmore?

[leadpipe]

On the topic of Notre Dame. Weis aside. I am not a Notre Dame fan, I actually could care less about them either way, but I actaully do think, in this day and age, they are sitting on a disadvantage with their academic requirements. This is trumping the fact that they are "Notre Dame" IMO. In this dy and age, when schools are finding ways to let in the biggest of idiots, I can't help but think this is hurting them. College Football has big level opportunities then ever right now. Anyone else with an opinion on this?

[peeker643]

On the topic of Notre Dame. Weis aside. I am not a Notre Dame fan, I actually could care less about them either way, but I actaully do think, in this day and age, they are sitting on a disadvantage with their academic requirements. This is trumping the fact that they are "Notre Dame" IMO. In this dy and age, when schools are finding ways to let in the biggest of idiots, I can't help but think this is hurting them. College Football has big level opportunities then ever right now. Anyone else with an opinion on this?

While it may be true, it hasn't happened in the last 3 years. I'm not sure what kind of genius Weis is if he knew the academic requirements were more stringent and still took a job where he'd have a decidedly more difficult time recruiting and winning.

Seems kind of the opposite of genius to me. Unless he's ego is as big as his ass. That would explain it.

[leadpipe]

On the topic of Notre Dame. Weis aside. I am not a Notre Dame fan, I actually could care less about them either way, but I actaully do think, in this day and age, they are sitting on a disadvantage with their academic requirements. This is trumping the fact that they are "Notre Dame" IMO. In this dy and age, when schools are finding ways to let in the biggest of idiots, I can't help but think this is hurting them. College Football has big level opportunities then ever right now. Anyone else with an opinion on this?

While it may be true, it hasn't happened in the last 3 years. I'm not sure what kind of genius Weis is if he knew the academic requirements were more stringent and still took a job where he'd have a decidedly more difficult time recruiting and winning.

Seems kind of the opposite of genius to me. Unless he's ego is as big as his ass. That would explain it.

But take Weis out of the picture. I guess the statement I'm trying to make is, I think that Notre Dame's stringent academic requirements hurt them more in 2007 than in 1977. Maybe that makes more sense, and, does anyone else think this is true?

[furls]

There are a lot of factors as to why Notre Dame is not the program that it was. While it is true that their academic standards are higher, don't fool yourself into thinking that it is excessively prohibitive. It clearly costs them some recruits, but not enough to be as bad as they are now.

I attribute the fall to a bunch of factors:

1.) The national growth of college football. There are more good programs out there now and there is a ton of exposure. The fact that Notre Dame was on television every week was huge factor in their success. Here is an example of how big NCAA ball is now: I moved to South Carolina a year ago, I was going to buy the gameday package for NCAA ball, but I am not now because nearly every Ohio State game will be on cable this year (IN SOUTH CAROLINA).

2.) Growth of regional support for teams. Ohio is a great example of this, but there are many more. Do you remember seeing this many Buckeye shirts/caps etc. in Cleveland in 1992? or 1997? The college game is growing even in markets that used to be dominated by pro teams. Since these teams are higher profile than they were to local kids, you will get more of a local kid playing for the hometown team (vice the national relic).

3.) Notre Dame's lack of conference affiliation. While Notre Dame has benefited a lot in the past from its cupcake deal with NBC, I think Notre Dame's program is currently hurt by this same deal now. Every team that ND plays is a rivalry game, but I think the lack of competition for anything but a national title has to hurt ND. In this new BCS world, conference championships do mean something and it is a nice back up plan to have once you get your second loss. Once ND loses a second game, they have nothing to play for.

4.) The embarassment that has been ND on New Year's Day. Since ND is ND and simply having ND associated with a bowl makes it interesting, the Irish are guaranteed to go to a bowl game that they do not deserve to be in. Can you blame bowl committees for taking an unworthy ND team from a financial perspective? Now, since they are overmatched in the bowl, they end up getting their asses pounded in front of a large viewing audience further besmearing the ND legacy.

5.) Bad Coaching. ND has had a run of bad coaches going back to Lou Holtz. It doesn't take long to destroy a program. Think about it, most of the guys that the ND is recruiting right now never saw ND win anything. History is nice, but how many kids do you know study history?

6.) Lack of NFL Draft success (recent). If you are a top high school prospect, where would you rather go to school; ND, OSU, USC, Texas, or Miami? I am sure lots will pick warmer climates and beaches and what have you, but in the end, ND will suffer not just for climate but because the other schools I listed are putting 7-10 guys in the NFL every year (on average). If my son was a blue chipper, I would encourage him to go to one of the other schools over ND even if he was an ND fan.

7.) Facilities. I am not implying that NDs facilities are as bad as Miami's, but ND used to have a distinct advantage in facilities. Now the major college programs (OSU, Texas, Florida, etc.) are all building monuments to football excess that double as workout facilities. The new multimillion dollar WHAC at OSU is so impressive that multiple NFL teams have come down to see it, and Ohio State is not alone in this.

[leadpipe]

Certainly academics isn't an exclusive reason, and I certainly agree with the above reasons. What I do believe is, your first two reasons, for example are also fostered by the academic requirements. Why play at Notre Dame and be held to standards when you can get the exposure 100 other ways, and not have to deal with it.

They have big problems there, and softening their academic standards aren't going to eliminate them, but it would make life easier.

I'm not suggesting they do this, by the way.

[Bayou Tribe]

The last three teams of merit that ND has played--OSU (last season), Michigan and USC all have hammered the Fighting Irish thoroughly.

Benz, I think there may have been another team in that time frame that bounced them around the Super Dome and beat them handily. Not sure who it could have been though.

[pup]

The last three teams of merit that ND has played--OSU (last season), Michigan and USC all have hammered the Fighting Irish thoroughly.

Benz, I think there may have been another team in that time frame that bounced them around the Super Dome and beat them handily. Not sure who it could have been though.

This is a bump of a thread from last November, so Gary's take didn't even include the debacle that was ND trying to match up with LSU.

[Bayou Tribe]

Wow, great call. I didn't even notice the date of his post. I guess USC, OSU and Michigan are making it a habit now. Thanks for the heads up.