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What About Vernon Wells?

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What About Vernon Wells?

Unread postby swerb » Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:15 am

Gammons and Steve Phillips were on ESPN this morning saying Riccardi will likely deal V.Wells this off-season. Wells has one year left on his deal, and will command top, top dollar to stay in Canada.

They say Riccardi is adamant about being contenders throughout the entire Burnett/BJ Ryan era, and that they cannot afford to lose Wells, and that it would likely behoove him to move him to fill other holes.

The Indians may not be a good fit, because they will likely want guys that can play in '07. However, if I'm Shapiro, I'm talking to Riccardi about Crowe, Blake, and a low level arm. And Im talking to Wells agent about what it would take to lock this guy up for the next 4-5 years.

Doing so would give the Indians a lethal lineup of talented players at or reaching their prime. Wells, Sizemore, Choo in the OF. Marte, Honny, Barfield, Garko in the infield. Victor and Hafner.

If the Indians were gonna give Sheff 12-13 per, and just saved 4-5 mill with the Barfield trade eliminating the need to go sign a 2b ... not only do I see this as reasonable, but I see it as something I would be pursuing hard if I were Shapiro.

Vernon Wells is one of the top outfielders in all of baseball, solid in all aspects. If he can be acquired, while still leaving assets/dollars to be used to upgrade the pen, I think you gotta look hard at this.
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Unread postby consigliere » Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:47 am

I'd love Wells. Not sure we are the right fit from a trading perspective since we'd likely have to give them 1-2 of our young players on the 25-man. You are probably looking at Lee and at least a Peralta and top prospect for Wells.

I keep hearing Shapiro may be up to something big.....maybe Wells is someone he is after.....maybe not.
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Unread postby pup » Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:54 pm

I keep hearing Shapiro may be up to something big


If we are going the trade avenue, there is nobody I would rather go after than Mr. Wells. But if he is going to be looking for an extension around $16 per year, I still say Soriano is the better option and could be had without giving up any kids.
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Unread postby swerb » Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:57 pm

Soriano is staying in DC
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Unread postby pup » Sat Nov 11, 2006 3:21 pm

Did I miss that?


Call his agent, offer a 5 year, $75 million dollar deal with a no trade clause and he will be on a flight to Cleveland by the end of the day.
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Unread postby furls » Sat Nov 11, 2006 3:36 pm

SORIANO SUCKS,

Lots of HRs, lots of SBs, but tons of K's and ASSTONS of errors. Indians need to get away from this style of ball (HR or nothing).

Only way Soriano considers coming to Cleveland is at 2B and we just filled that hole. We are better off with a guy that we can count on to make contact, Soriano is not that guy.

I like Vernon Wells alot! He is still improving and all that. Only problem is that he would give us 2 CFs and I am not sure how he or Sizemore would feel about moving to left.
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Unread postby pup » Sat Nov 11, 2006 3:42 pm

Soriano is fine being an outfielder and would stay in left. I have heard nothing about him saying he wants to move back to 2B, so I am saying sign him as an outfielder. If he does insist on moving back to 2B, then I agree we should not go after him, so from now on when I talk about Soriano it is as an OF.

Yes he strikes out. He also would hit 50 homers and drive in 150 runs runs in this lineup. I would take that.
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Unread postby Guest » Sat Nov 11, 2006 4:13 pm

He sucks huh?
His numbers are stupid
I'd love to have guys that suck with his numbers on my team.
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Unread postby ACrank » Sun Nov 12, 2006 6:01 am

a lot of us would

but i can't see the Indians paying 15 million a year for 5 years for anyone...

& i can see Soriano wanting more from the Indians because they are in Cleveland....or telling the Indians that they can sign him IF they agree to let him play second

so i can't see Soriano coming to Cleveland

like Vernon Wells alot! He is still improving and all that. Only problem is that he would give us 2 CFs and I am not sure how he or Sizemore would feel about moving to left.


I like Wells too, but i thought he had a good enough arm for RF - am i mistaken? I really don't want to get someone longterm to play LF - i'd rather keep that as open as possible for Crowe in middle to end of 07 or 08.
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Unread postby pup » Sun Nov 12, 2006 9:05 am

& i can see Soriano wanting more from the Indians because they are in Cleveland


Really? I don't get this line of thought. Why do all the fans think free agents have this thing about hating Cleveland. They go to the team with the highest offer. Can someeone please post something where a free agent turned down the best offer because it was in Cleveland?

You guys listen to too many Shapiro pressers.
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Unread postby ACrank » Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:14 pm

Hoffman. Giles. Garciaperra.

If you are a free agent and the two top offers are Cleveland, Ohio and Los Angeles, California - where do you go?

As i said - i would love Soriano in Cleveland. In Left Field. Possibly even in Right Field.

But i would expect the Indians would have to outbid the second team by a large amount to get Soriano to come here. And that is just not going to happen.
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Unread postby swerb » Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:18 pm

What Crank said ...
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Unread postby furls » Sun Nov 12, 2006 4:01 pm

Scoring runs is not the problem on this team. Ergo, guys like Soriano are not the answer. What the Indians need is team speed, leadership, smarts, and consistency at the plate.

Soriano provides NONE of those things and what is worse, is that at 5 yrs. 15 million dollars he would tie up about all the free agent money on this team for 5 years.
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Unread postby ACrank » Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:26 pm

A guy who can steal 40 basis would add to team speed.

But i agree with the rest of your assumption - the Indians need those, and Soriano would not add one lick to any of them.

& its not only tying up the free agent money for 5 years with that kind of contract, its what happens to the already slim chances of extending CC or Hafner or Sizemore into their free agent years....
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Unread postby pup » Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:39 pm

So the better options to Lee and Soriano, for the 2007 Tribe is who? Moises Alou? You might as well run Jason Michaels out there.
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Unread postby ACrank » Sun Nov 12, 2006 10:22 pm

Remind me again why the offense needs improved?

Yes it would be nice to add a bat to protect Hafner.

Its not as important a priority as adding arms to the pen.

And with the rest of the offense someone like Alou, with all his warts, or Drew, with all of his warts, would be preferable - as they would only cost money, and no where near the amount of money or length of contract of Soriano, and with a bit better of a personality....

Could be i am being "dumbed down" but get me relief pitching first, second, and third - then lets see what Bat is out there to get.
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Unread postby furls » Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:18 pm

preach it brother crank!

The bats are good, the PEN SUCKS DONKEY BALLS.

Lets get some relievers and if we add bats, lets add consistency. I really think this line up needs like an Omar Vizquel (c. 1999) bat, .305-.310 avg a handful of HRs, some steals, and clutch hitting.
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Unread postby pup » Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:31 am

Yes, the pen is terrible. I do not see them spending 25 large on it though. I find it hard to believe they will spend 15 mil on it. They are allowed to add a few relievers and a bat, no?

Remind me again why the offense needs improved


78-84, 4th in the division, 18 games back. Everything needs to be improved.

I just don't see the projected lineup in 2007 being as good as 2006. Especially if they are shipping out Garko for bullpen help.
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Unread postby consigliere » Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:56 am

Pup wrote:I just don't see the projected lineup in 2007 being as good as 2006. Especially if they are shipping out Garko for bullpen help.


Why not?

Barfield? A plus over the 2B position in 2006.
Sizemore? Continuing to blossom into a superstar.
Hafner? Ditto
Martinez? Solid. Good for .300/20/90 every year.
Marte? Can he be any worse than Boone?
Peralta? Won't get worse (although I expect a solid rebound season offensively)
Blake? He is what he is. Averages .260/23/70 a season.

The two question marks are 1B and LF. The 1B platoon last year was phenomenal. Even if Garko stays, he'll be hardpresses to repeat that. So, the Indians will get less production from 1B next year (not a huge dropoff, but a decent amount). As for LF....even if Michaels were to return, can it get any worse? At worse, the LF performance repeats.

So, barring a rash of injuries, how does this offense have trouble coming close to the production from 2005 and 2006? And, if they were to bring in a Drew or Alou to play LF for Michaels, that is a good enough upgrade where you maybe offset what you lost at 1B.

(Note, I'm not a huge fan of JD Drew because I think his LH bat is not a great fit, but if we did sign him I still believe he helps this offense a lot).

Still think the Indians are going to pull something off.....don't know what it is yet....but I get this feeling something relatively big is going down. Not Manny.....but something a tier below that.
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Unread postby pup » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:28 am

Barfield? A plus over the 2B position in 2006


Ronnie Belliard hit .291 with 8 homers with the Tribe last year.
Joe Inglett hit .284 with 2 homers.
Hector Luna hit .276 with 2 homers.

If Josh Barfield hits .290 with 12 homers he is a wash for Tribe 2nd basemen in 2006. To be a plus, we are talking .300 with 16 homers. I hope so.

Sizemore? Continuing to blossom into a superstar


Yes he is, but a repeat of this year (one of the best offensive seasons by an Indian ever) will be difficult. The right/left split scares me a little. He will likely need to hit the LHers a little better to improve on '06.

Hafner? Ditto


No argument here, as long as he survives a full season. For wahtever reason, 140 games has been his max thus far, but I will take him for those 140 over just about any left hander out there.



Martinez? Solid. Good for .300/20/90 every year


Agreed. Will the inevtiable switch to first base help or hurt these numbers?


Marte? Can he be any worse than Boone?


Boone was better than .226/.287/.421 (except for slugging). If Marte is that Marte, we are in trouble. We will get some more power from third base this year, but I don't know why we should expect more than .260 out of him in his first full season, which is slightly better than Boone.

Peralta? Won't get worse (although I expect a solid rebound season offensively)


I expect the same rebound, but hardly would gaurantee it, which gives reason to worry about it.

Blake? He is what he is. Averages .260/23/70 a season


And last year he hit .282/19/68 in only 109 games. Projected out he goes 282/28/101. He has 4 full season here in Cleveland. The trend goes .250/.270/.240/.280. Looks like .230 is the next logical number according to a question on this year's ACT exam.

I think this represents enough question marks. We are currently counting on 5 guys under 25 years old (without Choo if he is in your plans) to lead this team. Our infield has 4 seasons under their belts at the big league level. We are counting on Grady and Pronk to duplicate pretty magical seasons, just to break even with last year. We are counting on a guy with 200 MLB AB's (in which he has hit .200) to hit .260+, with power. We are counting on Casey Blake reversing a very ugly trend, just to stay where we were on offense.

I don't know. Hopefully I am wrong, but counting on the offense to score 870 runs again is a bit optimistic in my eyes.
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