Tribe close to deal for Sheffield? Also Linebrink/Barfield?

[consigliere]

Wow. Some possible stunners.

Per that DWags guy on Cleveland Live:

Don't have time to answer any follow up questions tonight, but I am hearing the following...Tribe is talking with San Diego about a Kouz for Linebrick trade. But, the real guy the Tribe wants is 2B Josh Barfield. I guess the Yankees also want Linebrick, which is holding things up. Tribe also close to a deal with the Yankees for Sheffield, but the Yankees are holding it up. I think it would be Garko and a pitching prospect. Gotta run

As always, take with a grain of salt.....but this guy has been on the mark many times. Getting Linebrink and/or Barfield REALLY interests me.

[Guest]

I'm a big Barfield fan, that would be a great move.
Not sure I want to trade Garko for anyone

[consigliere]

Agreed. I am a HUGE Barfield fan...I've been after him since 2004. I am all for some sort of deal with the Pads to get Linebrink AND Barfield. I'd pass on sending Garko and a pitching prospect to the Yanks for Sheffield. I'd rather just sign Alou.

[British_Pharaoh]

Agreed. I am a HUGE Barfield fan...I've been after him since 2004. I am all for some sort of deal with the Pads to get Linebrink AND Barfield. I'd pass on sending Garko and a pitching prospect to the Yanks for Sheffield. I'd rather just sign Alou.

Kouzmanoff was pulled from his AFL game last night

injured?? or on his way to take a physical for the Pads

[consigliere]

Good catch. Yep. Just checked. Kouz was removed in the 4th inning yesterday after popping out. It was either an injury....or we might be on the verge of a trade.

I e-mailed my buddy Chris Kline over at BA who is in the AFL right now.....hopefully I hear back from him soon. He's been hard to get a hold of lately.

[British_Pharaoh]

Good catch. Yep. Just checked. Kouz was removed in the 4th inning yesterday after popping out. It was either an injury....or we might be on the verge of a trade.

I e-mailed my buddy Chris Kline over at BA who is in the AFL right now.....hopefully I hear back from him soon. He's been hard to get a hold of lately.

unless he has the fragile body of Juan Gone i find it hard to believe he injured himself running out a pop fly

[consigliere]

We'll see. I spoke to Kline....he is calling Kouz and is supposed to get back to me soon to verify his health status (and even provide more info if possible).

[consigliere]

Just got confirmation from someone in the Tribe's development system (not Kline) I have come into contact with over the past few months. Kouz was removed from the game because his hamstring injury flared up....nothing serious. So, he wasn't removed because of a trade.

[consigliere]

I also received this nugget:

"Everyone in the org thinks he [Kouz] looks better there [1B] than at 3B."

Looks like Kouz may be in line for a permanent position switch to 1B. And, with him and Garko there, it looks like one is definitely trade bait.

[ACrank]

Does Kouz look better at first just becuase he has less chance of being hurt? I hope the Garko rumors aren't popping up because of Kouz - frankly i would rather trade Kouz, but i know you can get more for Garko....

[pup]

Ummmm,

Grady
Anyone
Pronk
Sheff

[consigliere]

Does Kouz look better at first just becuase he has less chance of being hurt? I hope the Garko rumors aren't popping up because of Kouz - frankly i would rather trade Kouz, but i know you can get more for Garko....

No, the org supposedly loves him at 1B, think he is a better fit there than at 3B. Not because of injury issues, but because he actually handled the position defensively much better. He actually is an above average 1B defensively.

[consigliere]

Apparently, the Indians may be close to a trade for Sheffield. I guess it could be Kouz instead of Garko going to the Yanks (plus a Mujica and others).

Also, here is a report from the NY Post putting the kibosh on a rumored three-way deal between the Yanks/Indians/Pads:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/11032006/sp ... k_hale.htm

NOTES: While the Indians have called the Yankees regarding Gary Sheffield's availability, talk of a three-way deal involving the Yankees, Indians and Padres was inaccurate. The club is likely to pick up Sheffield's $13 million option Monday with the intention of dealing him.

Where there is smoke, there is fire. And, it really appears the Indians, Yanks, and Pads are burning up the phone lines for a deal of some sort. The Indians want Sheffield....the Yanks want to dump him....but it appears the thing that is holding any deals up is the Indians and Yanks are both after Linebrink. At least it seems.

[pup]

Latest rumor has the Tigers as the most likely landing place for Sheff. That would be about par for the course. Tribe gets scared decides not to trade for a guy and he goes to another team in the division and kills us for a couple of years. BLAAAAAAH.

[pup]

And just like that it is done....


http://si.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/11/10/sheffield.tigers/index.html

God damn it. If we don't land Lee/Soriano I am going to be sick. One top level pitching prospect and 2 class a guys for Sheff. Good work Tribe.

[Guest]

SOR-I-ANO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let's do it

[ACrank]

the only way Soriano comes to Cleveland is if the Indians promise him second base

[furls]

I wouldnt let Soriano play second base on my sons little league team. The guy is a butcher.

Fuck Soriano and Sheffield, they are both problems and head cases.

[consigliere]

One top level pitching prospect and 2 class a guys for Sheff. Good work Tribe.

Yeah, good work staying away from that horrible deal.

The deal the Indians had in place Tuesday night of Kouz and a two mid-level pitching prospects for Sheffield was much better (for us). But, I am glad as hell we ended up getting Barfield instead of Sheffield for Kouz.

No way do I send the Yankees Adam Miller and a couple prospects for Sheffield. NO FING WAY. I'm not worried at all about the Tigers getting him, in fact, I am sort of glad.

[pup]

No way do I send the Yankees Adam Miller and a couple prospects for Sheffield. NO FING WAY. I'm not worried at all about the Tigers getting him, in fact, I am sort of glad.

The Tigers didn't give him an Adam Miller, so why would we have. The centerpiece of the deal is maybe half a season closer to the bigs than Chuck Lofgren. Throw in a couple more guys and you have a deal.

I doubt you will be as glad when we run Jason Michaels out there on opening day once again.

A pissed off Gary Sheffield in this lineup and your off-season is over from an offensive side.

[ACrank]

Sanchez pitched in Toledo last year.

That is AAA you know.

Last i checked the Indians didnt have any problem scoring runs.

They make this trade and how do they improve the pen? No players left to trade and no money left to spend.

Besides how do we even know the Indians were on Sheffield's list?

He has a history with Dombrowski and Leyland.

He has no history with Shapiro and Wedge.

[consigliere]

The Tigers didn't give him an Adam Miller, so why would we have. The centerpiece of the deal is maybe half a season closer to the bigs than Chuck Lofgren. Throw in a couple more guys and you have a deal.

I doubt you will be as glad when we run Jason Michaels out there on opening day once again.

A pissed off Gary Sheffield in this lineup and your off-season is over from an offensive side.

If you were hinging our offseason on the acquistion of Gary Sheffield, then I don't know what to say. Dude, the offseason has just barely begun, and in fact FA hasn't even started yet. The GM and winter meetings, where most deals get made, haven't even happened. From what I am hearing, Shapiro is lining up for something big (big bat or closer) at the meetings.

And, yes, Adam Miller is more highly regarded, but Sanchez is not far off....maybe more in Lofgren territory. The guy likely will be in the Top 100 prospect listings like Miller/Lofgren are.

[ACrank]

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/ma ... 62818.html

The biggest piece the Yankees get in return is Sanchez, a 2001 31st-round pick signed as a draft-and-follow out of Connors State (Okla.) Junior College. The starter for the World team in this year's Futures Game, Sanchez was born in the Dominican Republic, but grew up in the Bronx, just miles away from Yankee Stadium.

One of the premier pitching prospects in the Tigers' system, Sanchez has power stuff starting with his fastball that regularly tops out at 97 mph. He complements his heater with two hard breaking balls and an above-average changeup. His repertoire was major league ready by midseason, but a tender elbow shut him down after a promotion to Triple-A Toledo.

Sanchez's biggest problem over the last two years has been staying healthy. The 23-year-old worked hard to trim his weight after lat muscle and groin problems hampered him throughout the 2005 season, and he needs to keep his weight down in order to enhance his overall durability.

Sanchez went a combined 10-6, 2.63 while posting a career-high 123 innings between Double-A Erie and Triple-A Toledo in 2006.

Now can you guys see why i made the comparisons to Miller and CC as well....

The Yankees got a good pitcher out of this.

[pup]

He is a .500 pitcher with a minor league ERA around 4.50. Sure he throws hard and strikes out a guy an inning, but he is also a health concern with a career high 123 innings pitched, leading to him being shut down for the rest of the year. I am not saying the guy stinks, all I was saying is he in NOT Adam Miller.

If you were hinging our offseason on the acquistion of Gary Sheffield, then I don't know what to say

I would not say hinging, but it sure would have been nice, especially if it meant keeping him away from the team that won our division last year. A Sheffield with something to prove is a pretty dangerous addition to a lineup.

Most of the frustration comes from the fact that I do not believe we are going to see any significant upgrades going into next year. If I am wrong and there is a power hitting right handed bat in our future then I will relent.

Of course there is nothing in the history of this regime that gives me any confidence heading into the next few months. I see us mixing it up in the Carlos Lee/Alfonso Soriano sweepstakes, missing out on both of them, then overpaying for a JD Drew, who will play in about 75 games, plus some questionable bullpen arms so they can show an increased payroll. I am begging for them to prove me wrong, but I am no longer willing to take them for their word and walk around with a pitcher of the Kool-Aid to share.

[consigliere]

Of course there is nothing in the history of this regime that gives me any confidence heading into the next few months.

We'll see.

Payroll is supposed to bump to mid 60s.....which means they have $25M to spend or acquire in a trade. Considering their needs are a setup man, a LHed reliever, a closer, a vet middle infielder on the bench, and maybe a big middle of the order bat.....I think somewhere in there you will see a pretty significant acquisition.

And honestly, if they don't add anyone else to the lineup, I can live with it. We were #3 in baseball last year with our offense....and that is with Pronk shelved for a month and Belliard/Inglett/Luna at 2B.

[pup]

They were #3, with Eddie Perez and Ben Broussard platooning to better numbers than I expect from Garko.

The Casey Blake year, which he never seems to duplicate the following year.

Grady Sizemore having about the best offensive year you could ever ask for.

That Inglett/Luna platoon hit the ball pretty well for us.

Question marks in the offense for 2007:
1. Peralta. 2005 or 2006?
2. Garko in a full season
3. Marte
4. Michaels/Choo Platoon
5. Blake
6. Barfield transition to the AL.

None of those concerns are injury related. For each one of those you cross off, the less significant the others become. I think crossing off #4 is most important. Gary Sheffield did that. Carlos Lee and Alfonso Soriano would do that.

I hope Shap does some dealing, because if he think he is overtaking Detroit and Chicago with this group of free agent relievers, we are in trouble.

[ACrank]

How would adding another Dh effect the LF platoon?

And please give me a substantive reason (other than "because i said so") to expect Soriano and/or Lee to come to Clveland

[pup]

How would adding another Dh effect the LF platoon?

Gary Sheffield is not a DH. Just because that is what he will do in Detroit, does not mean that is what he is. He would play left, you know it, so stop with the idiocy.

And please give me a substantive reason (other than "because i said so") to expect Soriano and/or Lee to come to Clveland

Because you offer them the best deal, that is why. Whether it is the no trade clause for Soriano or an extra year for Lee. Whatever it takes.

Crank, I have requested twice for you to offer up the "correct" plan for the Indians this winter. Please feel free. I have no problem going back and forth with what I believe, but it gets a little old when someone only offers the negatives (in their eyes), without offering plausible solutions. The floor is yours....

[pup]

Sorry Crank, just read your blueprint under another topic. Maybe I should read all the posts before chirping. Apologies.

[ACrank]

How would adding another Dh effect the LF platoon?

Gary Sheffield is not a DH. Just because that is what he will do in Detroit, does not mean that is what he is. He would play left, you know it, so stop with the idiocy.

Not idiocy, simply because i am not that sure he would have played left. He is 38 years old, coming off of a season that he has lost to injury, that screams DH to me.

And please give me a substantive reason (other than "because i said so") to expect Soriano and/or Lee to come to Clveland

Because you offer them the best deal, that is why. Whether it is the no trade clause for Soriano or an extra year for Lee. Whatever it takes. [/quote]

Just like the Indians did last year with Garciapperra, Hoffman, and Giles.

Crank, I have requested twice for you to offer up the "correct" plan for the Indians this winter. Please feel free. I have no problem going back and forth with what I believe, but it gets a little old when someone only offers the negatives (in their eyes), without offering plausible solutions. The floor is yours....

There is no correct plan - there is what i would do and what you would do. We are both entitled to our opinions - i happen to think mine are a bit more realistic based on my understanding of market structures in MLB. You want the Indians to sign a top line free agent - i would like to know how they could under Dolan when they didn't under Jacobs, and the Indians were in a better economy, drawing more fans, and making a lot more money then even Dolan is making.

Sorry Crank, just read your blueprint under another topic. Maybe I should read all the posts before chirping. Apologies.

Don't sweat it - thats part of the problem having a discussion going thru multiple threads - bound to comment on something that happens in another thread before you get to see the other thread. Happens all the time.

[furls]

How 'bout if we move Grady to #3 in the line up and pick up a lead off hitter. If you look at Sizemore's stats, he is beginning to look more like a #3 hitter than a lead off. Not a dig on his obviously good speed and etc, but it would be great if he was hitting those doubles in the first inning with someone on.

He has also been pretty consistent.

[pup]

Not idiocy, simply because i am not that sure he would have played left. He is 38 years old, coming off of a season that he has lost to injury, that screams DH to me.

The wrist injury came on a freak play, and if he is fine to hit, I am sure he would be able to suit up in left. I guess arguing the Sheffield point is to the crying over spilled mile point and I am over it.

Just like the Indians did last year with Garciapperra, Hoffman, and Giles

I am still not sure that we did this. Giles and Hoffman were stretches because of their roots in the cities they were already in. This is not the case with either Carlos Lee or Alfonso Soriano. They will both go to the team with the best offer, IMO. Nomar is a bitch that went where his wife told him to go.

There is no correct plan - there is what i would do and what you would do. We are both entitled to our opinions - i happen to think mine are a bit more realistic based on my understanding of market structures in MLB. You want the Indians to sign a top line free agent - i would like to know how they could under Dolan when they didn't under Jacobs, and the Indians were in a better economy, drawing more fans, and making a lot more money then even Dolan is making

I understand market structures just fine. It is not me that has stated we have been cleared to increase payroll about $25 mil. I just don't see what they are looking at in this market with that kind of jack that does not include a big bat.

Under Jacobs, they were always looking for complimentary pieces for the lineup. Eddie Murray was a huge get and came at a pretty decent price tag at the time. Robbie Alomar was what I would consider a significant acquisition.

How 'bout if we move Grady to #3 in the line up and pick up a lead off hitter

Don't know that there is a lead off hitter out there that makes much sense. Plus moving Grady to third makes the lineup easier to pitch to in late games with your 2 best hitters, both being left handed going back to back. I like having Grady and Pronk split up by a solid right handed stick that hammers lefties.
Grady also needs to improve on his ability to hit left handed pitching before I toss him in that slot. .214 against lefties does not cut it hitting third.

[ACrank]

if you understood market structures you would understand why Jacobs/Hart were able to do what they did...

[pup]

if you understood market structures you would understand why Jacobs/Hart were able to do what they did

Revenue of a new stadium. Well that revenue comes mostly from ticket sales. Of course, that wears off after a couple of seasons, yet there where able to continue spending. Why? The Jake was packed on a nightly basis. Why is that? They won. A lot. Win this year and guess what, the place will be packed. You want to sell games out in April, before the effects of winning can take place, improve your team over the winter. This city WILL support a winning franchise, always has.

Look at 2005. As soon as the team was winning the place was sold out. Going into 2006, most fans believed the team got worse(I was not one, but they were right) and didn't go to April games and stayed away because they stunk. Give the fans a reason to come, that is all I ask.

[consigliere]

Look at 2005. As soon as the team was winning the place was sold out.

What planet were you on in August/Sept 2005?

The fans DID NOT come back.

Here are the home games starting after the Aug 2-4 Yankees series:

8/12: TB 22,597
8/13: TB 34,765
8/14: TB 25,361
8/16: TEX 27,403
8/17: TEX 20,442
8/18: TEX 23,214
8/19: BAL 33,160
8/20: BAL 41,034
8/21: BAL 28,025
8/29: DET 22,713
8/31: DET 22,091
9/08: DET 20,363
9/09: MIN 26,078
9/10: MIN 32,123
9/11: MIN 38,564
9/12: OAK 20,282
9/13: OAK 21,564
9/14: OAK 21,920
9/16: KC 21,975
9/17: KC 32,392
9/18: KC 22,654
9/27: TB 23,794
9/28: TB 24,356
9/29: TB 25,870
9/30: CHW 41,072
10/01: CHW 41,026
10/02: CHW 41,034

4 of the final 27 sold out.....3 of them being the last game. The only other game that even came within shouting distance of a sellout was the Minnesota game on Sunday Night Baseball whcih Triv was so pissed about poor attentance, he got the Indians to agree to a "Triv Special" where any ticket in the park would go for $5. Heck, they STILL couldn't sell the place out.

They averaged 28K a game those final 2 months. And, realistically, 28K to maybe 30K is about what you can expect on the average in a VERY GOOD year for an entire season (2.25M to 2.4M in attendance for the season). The days of 3.4M attendance figures will never even be approached again.

For all the bitching about spending, this team spends in correlation to the attendance now versus the 90s. They have roughly 60% the gate revenues to work with.

Maybe the problem in this town is the expectations are set to unreasonable levels. Listen, we ALL want to win. We ALL are starving for a win. But, you see it every year. No one is ever happy anymore because expectations are out of control. "We should get the top flight FAs in baseball." "The Cavs should be in the EC Finals or NBA Finals." "Phil Savage is God and our Savior." "Charlie Frye is the next great thing." Yadda, yadda, yadda...

Maybe if we held back just a tad on expectations, we might be able to enjoy the season, and our team(s) more.

[pup]

Wow. Thanks for clearing that up. I must have been somewhere between Saturn and Jupiter during that time.

With that said, I am very curious where the $20-25 million is going to go.
I am still worried that we are behind 2006 in terms of offense.

I find it very difficult to accept that we should have low expecatations then be happy if they win.

Maybe I am wrong, but as my boy Herman Edwards likes to say, you play to win the game. And that should include the front office over the winter.

I guess I will have to be content to sit back and watch my favorite team in all of sports to have mediocrity as a benchmark

[consigliere]

This will make you happy:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/11122006/sp ... k_hale.htm

ALFONSO SORIANO

The former Yankee joined the 40-40 club this past season (46 homers, 41 steals), and those polled speculated the Tigers (though that seems doubtful now that they've gotten Gary Sheffield), Cubs, Padres and Indians could provide Soriano a new home.

This sounds more like writer speculation than something being heard where the Indians are interested in him.

[ACrank]

Pup - it was a cycle - that fed on itself - the economy was good, people came out to see the Indians - the team started winning - more people came out...

it helped that the economy was good, the Cavs weren't, and the Browns were on their way to Baltimore....

well now the economy isn't good, the Cavs are, and the Browns are back and drawing....

the more i think of it the more i realize that in Cleveland the Indians are something to do before football season - or in this case between football and basketball season...

which is another reason why i do not expect the Indians to ever sign a big ticket free agent

[consigliere]

Well Sykes, looks like the Indians really wanted your boy, but SD kept it from happening.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=A ... &type=lgns

The Indians wanted Gary Sheffield and had a three-way trade in place with the Yankees and Padres before San Diego had cold feet about sending reliever Scott Linebrink to New York and pulled out. Cleveland then sent third baseman Kevin Kouzmanoff to San Diego for second baseman Josh Barfield and the Yankees moved Sheffield to Detroit for three pitching prospects

[pup]

Oh well. Another year of Travis Hafner getting walked in any big situation. Oh wait, we have Ryan Garko, that should do the trick.

[ACrank]

Oh well. Another year of Travis Hafner getting walked in any big situation. Oh wait, we have Ryan Garko, that should do the trick.

Actually it should help immensly. But hey the Indians can start two DH's at one time anyhow, right?

[furls]

Look, I am about as far from a FO apologist as you can be, but I got to cut them some slack on this. They tried to get the big bats, but as usual, they went to those with the cash for the payroll.

You can't saddle this one on the FO, as much as we would like to. It is just the cold hard reality that all the small market teams in baseball are simply the AAAA affiliates for the big markets. The Indians will always need the perfect storm in order to compete.

Look at the Soriano signing. Was there any doubt that he would be overpayed somewhere in a contract that is too long? Yep. See we as fans get to play with the owners money in fake terms, but in the end, they are the people who are stuck dealing with the reality of the bottom line.

None of this will change. Not until 1/2 the small market teams go belly up and have 4 fans sitting in the stands. THen baseball will be forced to do something, but even then it will probably be more subsidies from big market teams instead of the salary cap that the league so badly needs.

[pup]

This deal had nothing to do with cash and payroll. We got screwed by another team having cold feet. I am happier knowing we gave it an honest effort and had a deal in place. Now, could we ahve done something else to help San Diego's feet get warmer and decided not to?