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Blake has to be Benched!

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Unread postby Eckersley » Mon May 05, 2008 8:58 pm

Casey could go 1 for his next 99 & would not be cut. He would still be starting nearly every day. That's pretty much carved in stone as long as the current manger remains at the helm.
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Unread postby Jennifer » Mon May 05, 2008 10:06 pm

Eckersley wrote:Casey could go 1 for his next 99 & would not be cut. He would still be starting nearly every day. That's pretty much carved in stone as long as the current manger remains at the helm.
I love your absurd hypotheticals. They never have a chance of coming true so no one can ever comeback and say you were wrong.

Jennifer's Fearless Prediction: Blake will never go 1 for 99 because even if he starts to approach this stat he will be gone before he gets there. :P :-P :razz:
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Unread postby leadpipe » Mon May 05, 2008 10:13 pm

I don't think Casey Blake is good.

I believe Eric Wedge really likes Casey Blake.

But the reason Casey Blake is playing third base for the Indians is because he's the best third baseman they have.

Don't take this out on Blake. It's not really his fault.
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Unread postby Eckersley » Mon May 05, 2008 10:17 pm

Lead Pipe wrote:I don't think Casey Blake is good.

I believe Eric Wedge really likes Casey Blake.

But the reason Casey Blake is playing third base for the Indians is because he's the best third baseman they have.

Don't take this out on Blake. It's not really his fault.


He may be, but we'll never know because Wedgenious refuses to allow Marte any playing time.

Meanwhile, Casey's BA continues to dip, dip, dip & his defense is not too hot.
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Unread postby buckeyehoppy » Mon May 05, 2008 11:28 pm

Lead Pipe wrote:I don't think Casey Blake is good.

I believe Eric Wedge really likes Casey Blake.

But the reason Casey Blake is playing third base for the Indians is because he's the best third baseman they have.

Don't take this out on Blake. It's not really his fault.


No disrespect LP, but Casey Joke sucks golf balls through garden hoses as a stress reliever.

He is the poster child for this team's pending mediocrity. So, for the millions he's making to f--k up at playing a kid's game, I think he can take the rap if the team is going down in flames.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Tue May 06, 2008 12:01 am

buckeyehoppy wrote:
Lead Pipe wrote:I don't think Casey Blake is good.

I believe Eric Wedge really likes Casey Blake.

But the reason Casey Blake is playing third base for the Indians is because he's the best third baseman they have.

Don't take this out on Blake. It's not really his fault.


No disrespect LP, but Casey Joke sucks golf balls through garden hoses as a stress reliever.

He is the poster child for this team's pending mediocrity. So, for the millions he's making to f--k up at playing a kid's game, I think he can take the rap if the team is going down in flames.


My point was not necessarily don't blame him for the Indians struggles, it was don't blame him because they don't have anyone better to play third base.

I don't feel sorry for any of them, at the same time, they don't give a shit what I think anyway, so what's the point.

Show mw a better third baseman on the Tribe, and I'll gladly tell him to walk. I don't see that player.
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Unread postby drewd » Tue May 06, 2008 12:23 am

Lead Pipe wrote:
buckeyehoppy wrote:
Lead Pipe wrote:I don't think Casey Blake is good.

I believe Eric Wedge really likes Casey Blake.

But the reason Casey Blake is playing third base for the Indians is because he's the best third baseman they have.

Don't take this out on Blake. It's not really his fault.


No disrespect LP, but Casey Joke sucks golf balls through garden hoses as a stress reliever.

He is the poster child for this team's pending mediocrity. So, for the millions he's making to f--k up at playing a kid's game, I think he can take the rap if the team is going down in flames.


My point was not necessarily don't blame him for the Indians struggles, it was don't blame him because they don't have anyone better to play third base.

I don't feel sorry for any of them, at the same time, they don't give a shit what I think anyway, so what's the point.

Show mw a better third baseman on the Tribe, and I'll gladly tell him to walk. I don't see that player.


lol, dude you wont "see that player" because they wont play that player, and that player is marte!
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Unread postby buckeyehoppy » Tue May 06, 2008 12:32 am

Note to anybodywho believes that Casey Joke is the best 3B the Tribe has:

It is an opinion that Casey Joke is the best 3B on the Tribe because it has not been proven beyond a doubt that anyone else on the Tribe can play 3B.

If you only had one chance a week to show what you had, you'd be a little rusty, too. That would be the problem Mr. Marte is having, thanks to Mr. Wedge.

Casey Joke is hitting .202 and falling and still starts...everyday. Pardon me for thinking that Wedge isn't doing all he can to improve his team or put his best team on the field. As long as Casey Joke is starting everyday, Wedgie won't be fielding his best team...plain and simple.
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Unread postby drewd » Tue May 06, 2008 12:54 am

buckeyehoppy wrote:Note to anybodywho believes that Casey Joke is the best 3B the Tribe has:

It is an opinion that Casey Joke is the best 3B on the Tribe because it has not been proven beyond a doubt that anyone else on the Tribe can play 3B.

If you only had one chance a week to show what you had, you'd be a little rusty, too. That would be the problem Mr. Marte is having, thanks to Mr. Wedge.

Casey Joke is hitting .202 and falling and still starts...everyday. Pardon me for thinking that Wedge isn't doing all he can to improve his team or put his best team on the field. As long as Casey Joke is starting everyday, Wedgie won't be fielding his best team...plain and simple.


marte had ONLY 13 games last year to prove himself.
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Unread postby Jennifer » Tue May 06, 2008 3:22 am

buckeyehoppy wrote:Note to anybodywho believes that Casey Joke is the best 3B the Tribe has:

It is an opinion that Casey Joke is the best 3B on the Tribe because it has not been proven beyond a doubt that anyone else on the Tribe can play 3B.

If you only had one chance a week to show what you had, you'd be a little rusty, too. That would be the problem Mr. Marte is having, thanks to Mr. Wedge.

Casey Joke is hitting .202 and falling and still starts...everyday. Pardon me for thinking that Wedge isn't doing all he can to improve his team or put his best team on the field. As long as Casey Joke is starting everyday, Wedgie won't be fielding his best team...plain and simple.
Well Buckeyeoppy joke Marte is only on the roster because the Tribe has no choice. The consensus among people in the Tribe organization, the local media (both writers and broadcasters) and outside scouts is that Marte is not ready. He has difficulty hitting inside pitching, anything at the belt and above, rising fastballs and offspeed stuff. Playing him is more about giving him a chance to work on his weaknesses than proving he is ML ready to play everyday. The Tribe is trying to get into the playoffs and at the moment with the hitting in a funk and their struggle to play even .500 ball they are not in a position to give Marte a lot of playing time.

In response to those claiming Marte has not been given enough opportunity to "prove himself" at the ML level the problem that is apparent to anyone seeing him hit regularly is that he currently has too many weaknesses to be a successful ML hitter. Arguing that Marte should be given the opportunity to "prove himself" would be like arguing that I should be given the opportunity to "prove" myself if somehow I was on a ML roster (Unlike Marte I can't even hit a sinker).
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Unread postby Eckersley » Tue May 06, 2008 7:00 am

Jennifer wrote:Well Buckeyeoppy joke Marte is only on the roster because the Tribe has no choice. The consensus among people in the Tribe organization, the local media (both writers and broadcasters) and outside scouts is that Marte is not ready. He has difficulty hitting inside pitching, anything at the belt and above, rising fastballs and offspeed stuff.


So, how is Marte supposed to hit inside pitching, anything at the belt and above, rising fastballs and offspeed stuff by facing nothing but batting practice pitchers? The kid needs to play against real live pitching or he'll never improve.

Wedge kicks BP to the curb even though he had an option remaining because "he couldn't develop by riding the bench"

Now he expects Marte to develop by riding the bench????

Why does a team hoping to contend waste a roster spot on a player that they think can not help them?

The more that I follow the moves of Shapiro & Co, the more I'm convinced that they are very well educated & book smart, but clueless when it comes to managing a ML team roster.
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Unread postby slegend » Tue May 06, 2008 7:08 am

Eckersley wrote:
Jennifer wrote:Well Buckeyeoppy joke Marte is only on the roster because the Tribe has no choice. The consensus among people in the Tribe organization, the local media (both writers and broadcasters) and outside scouts is that Marte is not ready. He has difficulty hitting inside pitching, anything at the belt and above, rising fastballs and offspeed stuff.


So, how is Marte supposed to hit inside pitching, anything at the belt and above, rising fastballs and offspeed stuff by facing nothing but batting practice pitchers? The kid needs to play against real live pitching or he'll never improve.

Wedge kicks BP to the curb even though he had an option remaining because "he couldn't develop by riding the bench"

Now he expects Marte to develop by riding the bench????

Why does a team hoping to contend waste a roster spot on a player that they think can not help them?

The more that I follow the moves of Shapiro & Co, the more I'm convinced that they are very well educated & book smart, but clueless when it comes to managing a ML team roster.


What? Do not play Marte because of a lackluster scouting report, well here is the scouting report on Blake:

- No range defensively to his right or left at 3B, hitters should try and pull everything to the left side.

- Hits like shit, so just throw crap that lands on the plate and leaves a mark, this moron swings at it.

- Worst everyday player in MLB today. Do not ever walk this guy, like giving a NL pitcher a free pass.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Tue May 06, 2008 8:03 am

Eckersley wrote:
Jennifer wrote:Well Buckeyeoppy joke Marte is only on the roster because the Tribe has no choice. The consensus among people in the Tribe organization, the local media (both writers and broadcasters) and outside scouts is that Marte is not ready. He has difficulty hitting inside pitching, anything at the belt and above, rising fastballs and offspeed stuff.


So, how is Marte supposed to hit inside pitching, anything at the belt and above, rising fastballs and offspeed stuff by facing nothing but batting practice pitchers? The kid needs to play against real live pitching or he'll never improve.

Wedge kicks BP to the curb even though he had an option remaining because "he couldn't develop by riding the bench"

Now he expects Marte to develop by riding the bench????

Why does a team hoping to contend waste a roster spot on a player that they think can not help them?

The more that I follow the moves of Shapiro & Co, the more I'm convinced that they are very well educated & book smart, but clueless when it comes to managing a ML team roster.


Eck, part of this I agree with, that is, why waste the roster spot on a guy that cannot help them.

You guys let me know when Marte becomes a better player than Blake, here or anywhere.

There is a big difference between he and BP. BP would have been picked up by 30 teams should he have been released at the time of the trade. BP had attitude issues in the opinion of some Tribe brass, and most importantly, for all his struggles, one who was watching could SEE a major league talent.

I don't see how any of you guys who are WATCHING Marte's approach believe he will ever hit at this level.

Again, I will gladly wager that Casey Blake's career will be better than that of Andy Marte's, and, again, not that Casey's career will end up stellar. I would note that it took Blake a long time to WORK his way up to the bigs. He, like practically everyone lese, had nothing handed to him. Marte could have had at bats with a clue last yea, he could have cam into spring training in shape this year or he could have hit in the spring this year. Minus ANY of those he's going to have to do it the hard way, which is hit in limited time.

Lastly, this is all going to play out. One way or another. It's pretty obvious.

Buckeye: there have been many careers started playing one day a week. If you aren't an elite prospect, that's the way it works for the most part.

Look, at this point, I don't care what they do at third. I'd almost rather they play Marte so they can just move on. But Marte is not going to hit much and more importantly, with that approach, isn't going to hit good pitching.

Do you think Andy Marte is good, or just better than a guy you cats rate worst in the league. Because if he's just a notch better than the worst player in the league, what's the point?
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Unread postby peeker643 » Tue May 06, 2008 10:21 am

Lead- You're wasting valuable breaths. Try an analogy:

You need someone to write a post. Your choices are;

1. The Smackmaster General- this fictional character was once a self-proclaimed radio call in show legend. Currently he's a one-note-Johnny who is capable of turning on a computer to type but very little more.

2. A Catfish- The catfish can't type, can't turn on the computer, can't hit anything above his waist, on his hands or down and away.

The post must be written or there is a gaping hole on the left side of your thread next to the SS. Who writes the post?

Exactly- The Smackmaster General. He's all you got. You don't like it at all because the quality is nowhere near what you'd prefer but someone has to stand there....I mean write that post.

Therefore, Catfish=Marte, Fictional Smackmaster=Blake in our analogy. The Smackmaster would, in this example, clearly be the Blake of the boards.
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Unread postby slegend » Tue May 06, 2008 10:44 am

Do you think Andy Marte is good, or just better than a guy you cats rate worst in the league. Because if he's just a notch better than the worst player in the league, what's the point?

In terms of production in 2008, Andy Marte and Casey Blake would be roughly equal. Both deserve to hit in the #9 hole and not be counted on to lead the offense from the 1-6 slots.

Casey Blake is at the end of the his career. He is noticably slower than he was the past two seasons, both in the field and especially running the bases. He is a career utility player that was allowed to start because Cleveland has a limited budget and/or held down prospects versus promoting.

Andy Marte has just started his pro career. We know that he will have some growing pains as he adjusts to MLB pitching, but you have to put up with the growth to benefit from the development.

Unlike most posters on this board that copy and paste stats, I actually watch minor league baseball and report what I see with my own two eyes.

In Marte, I see a player that has power, with the upside of hitting 30 HRs and driving in 100 RBIs. Now that we have, in theory, passed the Roid era, you cannot inject power into young players anymore.

Marte was labeled, just 2 years ago, as one of the elite prospects in the game. He had back to back seasons of a solid walk rate and back to back seasons of a solid power numbers.

Cleveland, in their moron wisdom of trying to shape player's into some perfect mold spit out by an excel spreadsheet, decide to scrap Marte's swing and re-invent the wheel. They do this all the time with prospects, like the delivery of Guthrie. They thank that by altering what might be a flaw will make the prospects better.

Just imagine how we would have ruined the career of Thome over 10 years ago if we decided he could no longer utilize an upper cut swing due to high K rates. I hall of fame player might have never made the adjustment and had a MLB career.

Marte is a pull hitter, with a slight uppercut swing. When the Indians decided to make him a new ball player, it ruined his mental approach and ruined his ability to hit. He has spent two years analyzing 100 elements of every part of every swing and it "had" him lost.

When Marte returns to his natural approach, he will become the player that so many predicted:

- A guy that does not swing at balls out of the zone and draws a decent number of walks...
- A guy with gap power and HR power...
- A potential 3-4-5 hitter over a solid 6-7 year career of production...

All the guy needs is a team to give him 400-500 at bats to learn at the MLB level how to handle the advanced pitching.

If we had Travis Fryman in his prime, Marte would be stuck at AAA and traded away. If we had Matt Williams under contract, Marte would be sent packing for a prospect.

But when a guy named Casey Blake is holding back a prospect from playing, you have a freaking joke.

If we fast forward to 2012, you will see Marte's name amongst the leaders at 3B in slugging, RBIs, etc. You will not have to scroll down to the bottom of the list or navigate to page 2 to find his current stats like you do with Casey Blake.

That being said, if you like cheering for guys that suck and watching your team battle for last or next to last place, than continue to support losers like Blake, Michaels, Dellucci and then wonder why your team is never in the World Series.
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Unread postby pup » Tue May 06, 2008 10:52 am

So what Andy Marte are we getting? The one who the Indians have ruined, or the 30 HR guy?

Cuz I find it hard to believe he can just revert back to uber prospect days by getting at bats. And I find it hard to believe the Indians, if they in fact "ruined his approach" are going to throw their hands in the air at this point and switch his approach back.

If we are getting the guy they screwed up, he is no better than Blake, and a much worse professional than Blake. And the other guy no longer exists. Or he would be here.
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Unread postby Eckersley » Tue May 06, 2008 10:55 am

Pup wrote:So what Andy Marte are we getting? The one who the Indians have ruined, or the 30 HR guy?

Cuz I find it hard to believe he can just revert back to uber prospect days by getting at bats. And I find it hard to believe the Indians, if they in fact "ruined his approach" are going to throw their hands in the air at this point and switch his approach back.

If we are getting the guy they screwed up, he is no better than Blake, and a much worse professional than Blake. And the other guy no longer exists. Or he would be here.


Then place him on waivers for cryin' out loud. We've been playing with a 24 man roster since opening day.

Play him or waive him. What they're doing now is ridiculous.
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Unread postby peeker643 » Tue May 06, 2008 11:08 am

When Marte returns to his natural approach, he will become the player that so many predicted:

- A guy that does not swing at balls out of the zone and draws a decent number of walks...
- A guy with gap power and HR power...
- A potential 3-4-5 hitter over a solid 6-7 year career of production...

All the guy needs is a team to give him 400-500 at bats to learn at the MLB level how to handle the advanced pitching.


Who wouldn't want that? You'd think the organizations that had that player before the Indians would want 7 years of that kind of production for far cheaper than the guys they were already getting it from.

How come those organizations didn't keep him and just give him 400 ABs if they were guaranteed that return? Who cares who you have playing there now if you're guaranteed a terrific middle of the order hitter just by giving him 400 ABs.

It ain't about the guys in front of him. It's about him. You want someone other than Blake, terrific, I'm good with that. More so every day. But it's stone-cold stupid to put your eggs in Marte's basket. Just like it was stone-cold stupid for this org to go out and grab him with all his holes and warts.

No one's dying to see Blake dude. But this organization, other organizations and scouts from yet even more organizations have all reached the conclusion that he ain't a ML 3rd baseman. Yet many people here are smarter than everyone else and are convinced he just needs ABs against even better pitching than he already can't hit in AAA.

That makes a ton of sense. Maybe we should give all washed out prospects who fail at any level of the organization 400 ABs at the major leage level.

Then place him on waivers for cryin' out loud. We've been playing with a 24 man roster since opening day.

Play him or waive him. What they're doing now is ridiculous.


I'm with you on the waive him Eck. Admist the mistake and move on. Then when some shitty org picks him up and he has a September game where he goes 2-5 with a HR we can begin the BP comparisons again. That woudl be best for the boards and for Marte and the Tribe. :lol:
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Unread postby slegend » Tue May 06, 2008 11:11 am

Pup wrote:So what Andy Marte are we getting? The one who the Indians have ruined, or the 30 HR guy?

Cuz I find it hard to believe he can just revert back to uber prospect days by getting at bats. And I find it hard to believe the Indians, if they in fact "ruined his approach" are going to throw their hands in the air at this point and switch his approach back.

If we are getting the guy they screwed up, he is no better than Blake, and a much worse professional than Blake. And the other guy no longer exists. Or he would be here.


Pup, we will not know which Marte emerges unless he plays...

BP hit like crap when the Tribe tried to make him something he was not at Buffalo... It did not take him long for BP to emerge as a legit MLB talent at 2B in Cincy... We do not know if BP will continue to play average or above average - or climb to the elite or all-star status... But he is a legit MLB talent...

Guthrie could never control a pitch under his new mechanics in Cleveland. I remember reading a Baltimore Sun article last season that mentiond that the coaches got his videos from college and returned him to what made him solid - his old pitching form. He has done OK at the MLB level...

How many more BPs, Guthries, Martes are going to get screwed up by this organization before Shapiro realizes the training core at the minor league level are not developing talent, actually hurting growth?
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Unread postby peeker643 » Tue May 06, 2008 11:18 am

slegend wrote:
Pup wrote:So what Andy Marte are we getting? The one who the Indians have ruined, or the 30 HR guy?

Cuz I find it hard to believe he can just revert back to uber prospect days by getting at bats. And I find it hard to believe the Indians, if they in fact "ruined his approach" are going to throw their hands in the air at this point and switch his approach back.

If we are getting the guy they screwed up, he is no better than Blake, and a much worse professional than Blake. And the other guy no longer exists. Or he would be here.


Pup, we will not know which Marte emerges unless he plays...

BP hit like crap when the Tribe tried to make him something he was not at Buffalo... It did not take him long for BP to emerge as a legit MLB talent at 2B in Cincy... We do not know if BP will continue to play average or above average - or climb to the elite or all-star status... But he is a legit MLB talent...

Guthrie could never control a pitch under his new mechanics in Cleveland. I remember reading a Baltimore Sun article last season that mentiond that the coaches got his videos from college and returned him to what made him solid - his old pitching form. He has done OK at the MLB level...

How many more BPs, Guthries, Martes are going to get screwed up by this organization before Shapiro realizes the training core at the minor league level are not developing talent, actually hurting growth?


The guy is 400 ABs from being a middle of the order force for 6-7 years. You know what that is? That's an enormously tradeable asset and prospect. There should be teams knocking down the door to get a guy who is 4months of ABs away from being a terrific 3-4-5 hitter. They should be able to get a king's ransom for a guaranteed middle of the order stud like that.

Can't wait to see what they get.
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Unread postby slegend » Tue May 06, 2008 11:25 am

I did not say that Marte would be ready for prime time after a season of full-time at bats...

I mean that you are going to have to put up with "Casey Blake" like performance for a season until he is at the point to add value...

Then, you have a guy that can progress from the bottom of the order to the heart of the order...

Instead, we are playing Aaron Boone Jr. ahead of him and the team is not investing the time to develop a potential talent...
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Unread postby TitoFrancona » Tue May 06, 2008 12:05 pm

For everyone here who hates Casey Blake, just remember, if they did decide to give the job to Marte, you will all soon be hating and bashing Marte even more.

Why? Simply because Marte has always been an overhyped prospect. His defense has been way overrated and it's a known fact he can't hit anything but a straight fastball.

I agree Blake probably needs to be benched, but Marte is certainly not the one he should be benched for. Marte needs to be released.
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Unread postby TD » Tue May 06, 2008 3:17 pm

- No range defensively to his right or left at 3B, hitters should try and pull everything to the left side.

- Hits like shit, so just throw crap that lands on the plate and leaves a mark, this moron swings at it.

- Worst everyday player in MLB today. Do not ever walk this guy, like giving a NL pitcher a free pass.
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Unread postby Steve Buffum » Tue May 06, 2008 3:21 pm

TD wrote:
- No range defensively to his right or left at 3B, hitters should try and pull everything to the left side.

- Hits like shit, so just throw crap that lands on the plate and leaves a mark, this moron swings at it.

- Worst everyday player in MLB today. Do not ever walk this guy, like giving a NL pitcher a free pass.
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Except that after consecutive series against Jose Guillen, Tony Pena, Jr., and Jose Vidro, the statement is demonstratably false.

I like hyperbole as much as the next guy. In fact, I like hyperbole FIFTY THOUSAND TIMES MORE than the next guy! Ahoogah! Ahoogah! Devil bunnies! I snort the nose, Lucifer!

But this is just piffle.
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Unread postby TD » Tue May 06, 2008 3:59 pm

This excellent thread has been the subject of today's blog...

http://dumpcaseyblake.blogspot.com/2008 ... ssion.html

great work to all of you.
www.dumpcaseyblake.blogspot.com - Now known as "Dump David Dellucci."
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Unread postby CarolinaTribe » Tue May 06, 2008 4:11 pm

TD wrote:This excellent thread has been the subject of today's blog...

http://dumpcaseyblake.blogspot.com/2008 ... ssion.html

great work to all of you.



Shameless plug of the day.
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Unread postby CarolinaTribe » Tue May 06, 2008 4:20 pm

IMO, I don't see what Casey Blake has done for anyone on this board to "hate" him. If you were in his situation, would you step aside? Maybe donate your starting spot to Andy Marte? Would you be a "better player" than Casey Blake?

No. It's bullshit to "hate" the guy.
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Unread postby slegend » Tue May 06, 2008 4:23 pm

CarolinaTribe wrote:IMO, I don't see what Casey Blake has done for anyone on this board to "hate" him. If you were in his situation, would you step aside? Maybe donate your starting spot to Andy Marte? Would you be a "better player" than Casey Blake?

No. It's bullshit to "hate" the guy.


No talking about the Blake the person, Blake the baseball player...

I hate the fact he cannot hit...
I hate the fact that he kept Garko at AAA for an extra 3/4 season...
I hate the fact that he halted Marte's MLB debut...
I hate the fact that Blake started in RF over Choo or Gutz...
I hate the fact that Blake sucked fielding 3B...

Since Shapiro and Wedge play nothing but "character" guys, yes, Blake should have the character to demote himself to a local softball league.
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Unread postby Jhonny » Tue May 06, 2008 4:55 pm

He didn't do that (at least most of it), Shapiro did that.

Let's at least limit the Blake hatred to stuff he controls.
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Unread postby TCBinaflash » Tue May 06, 2008 5:19 pm

No one brings up the fact he takes approximately 8 percent of the Indians payroll this year.

My math is rusty, but if we dumped Casey I think that would make the Indians 92% better.
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Unread postby furls » Tue May 06, 2008 5:24 pm

I hate the fact that Blake inspires so much hate.

All the guy does is play anywhere the organization needs him/anytime they need him providing a serviceable glove and average bat. While I do not spend my nights pondering Casey Blake's purpose in the greater scheme of the universe, I certainly do not spend my nights contemplating his death.

If you want to hate someone, hate the organization that has made him an excellent utility player into an everyday starter for several years.

As for Marte, he has shown exactly nothing in any opportunity he has had in AAA or in limited major league at bats. As a matter of fact, his MLB ABs have been TERRIBLE.

Frankly, this stuff is pretty ridiculous the Indians are still in it in spite of how bad things are going. I think that if the Indians are so bad and hard to watch, maybe you guys should spare yourselves and stop watching and posting about it. I think the Yankees are BoSox are always looking for fairweather fans, hell, Philly is always in need of whiney fans that complain at every turn too.
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Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Tue May 06, 2008 5:25 pm

slegend wrote:
CarolinaTribe wrote:IMO, I don't see what Casey Blake has done for anyone on this board to "hate" him. If you were in his situation, would you step aside? Maybe donate your starting spot to Andy Marte? Would you be a "better player" than Casey Blake?

No. It's bullshit to "hate" the guy.


No talking about the Blake the person, Blake the baseball player...

I hate the fact he cannot hit...
I hate the fact that he kept Garko at AAA for an extra 3/4 season...
I hate the fact that he halted Marte's MLB debut...
I hate the fact that Blake started in RF over Choo or Gutz...
I hate the fact that Blake sucked fielding 3B...

Since Shapiro and Wedge play nothing but "character" guys, yes, Blake should have the character to demote himself to a local softball league.


I hate the fact that every time I read a thread it involves several people whining about Casey Blake.
I hate the fact that he hit nearly .350 against Boston in the ALCS.
I hate the fact that the only person to blame for Andy Marte's situation is Andy Marte.
I hate the fact that Blake has more RBI than BP or Kouzmanoff.
I hate the fact that people seem to believe that Casey Blake is to blame for our horrible start, gasoline prices and Global Warming.

Don't be hatin'.
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Unread postby TribeNut » Tue May 06, 2008 5:39 pm

The Indians ruined Andy Marte? By putting on the kid gloves w/ him @ AAA and then handing him 3B last year? Need I remind fans that the Padres were patient with Kevin Kouzmanoff b/c they had no other choice, unlike the Indians?
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Unread postby leadpipe » Tue May 06, 2008 6:13 pm

slegend wrote:Do you think Andy Marte is good, or just better than a guy you cats rate worst in the league. Because if he's just a notch better than the worst player in the league, what's the point?

In terms of production in 2008, Andy Marte and Casey Blake would be roughly equal. Both deserve to hit in the #9 hole and not be counted on to lead the offense from the 1-6 slots.

Casey Blake is at the end of the his career. He is noticably slower than he was the past two seasons, both in the field and especially running the bases. He is a career utility player that was allowed to start because Cleveland has a limited budget and/or held down prospects versus promoting.

Andy Marte has just started his pro career. We know that he will have some growing pains as he adjusts to MLB pitching, but you have to put up with the growth to benefit from the development.

Unlike most posters on this board that copy and paste stats, I actually watch minor league baseball and report what I see with my own two eyes.

In Marte, I see a player that has power, with the upside of hitting 30 HRs and driving in 100 RBIs. Now that we have, in theory, passed the Roid era, you cannot inject power into young players anymore.

Marte was labeled, just 2 years ago, as one of the elite prospects in the game. He had back to back seasons of a solid walk rate and back to back seasons of a solid power numbers.

Cleveland, in their moron wisdom of trying to shape player's into some perfect mold spit out by an excel spreadsheet, decide to scrap Marte's swing and re-invent the wheel. They do this all the time with prospects, like the delivery of Guthrie. They thank that by altering what might be a flaw will make the prospects better.

Just imagine how we would have ruined the career of Thome over 10 years ago if we decided he could no longer utilize an upper cut swing due to high K rates. I hall of fame player might have never made the adjustment and had a MLB career.

Marte is a pull hitter, with a slight uppercut swing. When the Indians decided to make him a new ball player, it ruined his mental approach and ruined his ability to hit. He has spent two years analyzing 100 elements of every part of every swing and it "had" him lost.

When Marte returns to his natural approach, he will become the player that so many predicted:

- A guy that does not swing at balls out of the zone and draws a decent number of walks...
- A guy with gap power and HR power...
- A potential 3-4-5 hitter over a solid 6-7 year career of production...

All the guy needs is a team to give him 400-500 at bats to learn at the MLB level how to handle the advanced pitching.

If we had Travis Fryman in his prime, Marte would be stuck at AAA and traded away. If we had Matt Williams under contract, Marte would be sent packing for a prospect.

But when a guy named Casey Blake is holding back a prospect from playing, you have a freaking joke.

If we fast forward to 2012, you will see Marte's name amongst the leaders at 3B in slugging, RBIs, etc. You will not have to scroll down to the bottom of the list or navigate to page 2 to find his current stats like you do with Casey Blake.

That being said, if you like cheering for guys that suck and watching your team battle for last or next to last place, than continue to support losers like Blake, Michaels, Dellucci and then wonder why your team is never in the World Series.


This post... You aren't a stat guy, great. But what you are seeing with your own eyes isn't going to help you much if that's your analysis. Good Christ on a pony. Now he's going to be a middle of the order hitter for 6 or seven years? A future leader in slugging and RBI's. He's lucky to be in the league in 7 years.

As far as the swing analysis, Thome's "uppercut" has nothing to do with anything. Thome's swing has ALWAYS been much shorter than Marte's. CLEARLY. Marte's bat path THRU THE ZONE is fine, the problem is it takes about three years to get there. This is why he hooks every God Damn ball that isn't right in his spot. It's why he's slow to balls on his hands, why he can't hit balls on th outside edge, nor breaking pitches.

Major league pitchers stay away from sweet spots, that's why they are in the show. I don't care how many bombs he hit off AA pitchers and below that we'll never see again, I care about the fact he isn't going to hit GOOD pitching, which is what he's going to need to do to help the team.

Leave everyone else out of this if you can for a second, your whipping boy Blake, A guy like Thome you think is comparable but is clearly not...everything. Think about the guys major league at bats. Think about the at bats he had once they sent him down to a lower level last year.

As Peek mentioned, if you see a good major league hitter, fine. I'm going to go with everybody else in baseball and my EYES.

As Furls mentioned, this whole Blake thing is exhausting to the point of ridiculousness. I'm done with it. Just understand the shit that has been written such as, "Blake could be replaced with a guy that went o for 500 and there wouldn't be a difference." or "Casey Blake is the worst player in the major leagues".....Writing shit like that makes you not count. Trust me, you can watch and analyze all you want, and put it in a post, and nobody is going to take it seriously anyway.

As far as cheering for losers, again, missed point. I wish Casey Blake wasn't the Tribe's third baseman, but nobody else is capable.

Lastly, I'll put my money where my mouth is. Andy Marte should easily, according to you, have a much better career than Casey Blake. You name the price, I got Blake, you got Marte. The Lead Man is an easy guy to find.
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Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Tue May 06, 2008 6:19 pm

I've seen Brook Jacoby and the ossified remains of Matt Williams and Travis Fryman play third. Casey Blake... isn't that bad. Just as long as he's not on Fryman's career track.
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Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Tue May 06, 2008 8:18 pm

Think about the guys major league at bats. Think about the at bats he had once they sent him down to a lower level last year.


There will be a post about 'disgruntled minor leaguers" rotting in AAA in 3...2....1....
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Unread postby Brian » Tue May 06, 2008 8:34 pm

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:I've seen Brook Jacoby and the ossified remains of Matt Williams and Travis Fryman play third. Casey Blake... isn't that bad. Just as long as he's not on Fryman's career track.


Matt Williams hit 32 home runs and drove in 105 runs in his one season in Cleveland. He won the silver slugger.

And he was a gold glover that season.

Yup, real ossified.
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Unread postby jameseboy » Wed May 07, 2008 9:04 am

One of the hidden good things last night was Marte started over Blake..I hope they give him at least a couple of weeks to see what he can do...
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Unread postby chitownmike » Wed May 07, 2008 9:54 am

The ossified remains of Travis Fryman.... good one.
You think he's available?
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Unread postby peeker643 » Wed May 07, 2008 9:55 am

jameseboy wrote:One of the hidden good things last night was Marte started over Blake..I hope they give him at least a couple of weeks to see what he can do...


I do too. Then the Jamey Carroll at 3b movement will gather steam. :lol:

How many weeks are fair before the " I heart-ay Marte" crowd is convinced his 0-3 with a K is pretty much par for the course?

Whaddya need as far as time goes? Be reasonable now. Understand that his front office, other front offices and scouts all over the world already know what y'all need to be shown. And they ain't gonna waste much more than a couple weeks.
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Unread postby DrMemory » Wed May 07, 2008 10:14 am

Eckersley wrote:Casey could go 1 for his next 99 & would not be cut. He would still be starting nearly every day. That's pretty much carved in stone as long as the current manger remains at the helm.


Blake may go 1-99....but he's still likely to have more RBI's during that span than Hapless Hafner or Victor, the softest #4 hitter in baseball, Martinez.

The point being, blaming the guy with the most RBI's on the team for the current batting slump is quite possibly the most moronic thing I've seen on an internet newsgroup since a ratfan claimed getting an online degree from the University of Phoenix was as great an accomplishment as graduating from Harvard.
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Unread postby Eckersley » Wed May 07, 2008 10:22 am

DrMemory wrote:
Eckersley wrote:Casey could go 1 for his next 99 & would not be cut. He would still be starting nearly every day. That's pretty much carved in stone as long as the current manger remains at the helm.


Blake may go 1-99....but he's still likely to have more RBI's during that span than Hapless Hafner or Victor, the softest #4 hitter in baseball, Martinez.

The point being, blaming the guy with the most RBI's on the team for the current batting slump is quite possibly the most moronic thing I've seen on an internet newsgroup since a ratfan claimed getting an online degree from the University of Phoenix was as great an accomplishment as graduating from Harvard.



I wasn't blaming Blake for the team's offensive woes. If you've read some of my posts, you'll see that I'm 1 of the few on this board that doesn't hate Blake. I simply think he'd be better as a super utility guy than an every day starter.

The 1-99 remark wasn't a knock on Blake....it was on the team's manager who would continue to play his favorites whether they hit .300, .200 or .100.
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Unread postby DrMemory » Wed May 07, 2008 10:32 am

Eckersley wrote:
DrMemory wrote:
Eckersley wrote:Casey could go 1 for his next 99 & would not be cut. He would still be starting nearly every day. That's pretty much carved in stone as long as the current manger remains at the helm.


Blake may go 1-99....but he's still likely to have more RBI's during that span than Hapless Hafner or Victor, the softest #4 hitter in baseball, Martinez.

The point being, blaming the guy with the most RBI's on the team for the current batting slump is quite possibly the most moronic thing I've seen on an internet newsgroup since a ratfan claimed getting an online degree from the University of Phoenix was as great an accomplishment as graduating from Harvard.



I wasn't blaming Blake for the team's offensive woes. If you've read some of my posts, you'll see that I'm 1 of the few on this board that doesn't hate Blake. I simply think he'd be better as a super utility guy than an every day starter.

The 1-99 remark wasn't a knock on Blake....it was on the team's manager who would continue to play his favorites whether they hit .300, .200 or .100.


Sorry if I misunderstood your post, however it does seem there is a large majority of posters who seem to treat Blake as the scapegoat for all the the Indians offensive woes when things are going bad.

While conveniently ignoring other more pressing problems...obviously Hafner is the biggest one. However Victor Martinez has me very concerned as well. This year he's basically turned into Rod Carew with lead weights tied to his ankles. Not a good situtation for your #3 or #4 guy to turn into a slow-footed singles hitter.
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Unread postby Eckersley » Wed May 07, 2008 11:01 am

DrMemory wrote:Sorry if I misunderstood your post, however it does seem there is a large majority of posters who seem to treat Blake as the scapegoat for all the the Indians offensive woes when things are going bad.

While conveniently ignoring other more pressing problems...obviously Hafner is the biggest one. However Victor Martinez has me very concerned as well. This year he's basically turned into Rod Carew with lead weights tied to his ankles. Not a good situtation for your #3 or #4 guy to turn into a slow-footed singles hitter.



I agree. This team has a lot of problems on offense other than Blake hitting near the mendoze line. He doesn't hurt us as bad since he hits at the bottom of the order.

Wedge & Shapiro appear to have an affection for sloth-like hitters
with high K rates & very little use for speed &/or contact hitters. Hopefully, this offensive offense will make them see the light & change their way of thinking for the Tribe's future.
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Unread postby TD » Wed May 07, 2008 11:04 am

No Blake and we win last night. Coicidence? I dont think so!

Seriously, this is beating a dead horse, but Manning said it in the pregame - how can marte ever get into a groove when he got 13 ab's in the first month. Let the kid play 4-5 days in a row, move Fake to first on occasion. Give him his shot. If he fails, then fine, move on. But at least give him his fair shake.
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Unread postby Duane Kuiper » Wed May 07, 2008 11:06 am

WiscTribeFan wrote:I hate the fact that every time I read a thread it involves several people whining about Casey Blake.
I hate the fact that he hit nearly .350 against Boston in the ALCS.
I hate the fact that the only person to blame for Andy Marte's situation is Andy Marte.
I hate the fact that Blake has more RBI than BP or Kouzmanoff.
I hate the fact that people seem to believe that Casey Blake is to blame for our horrible start, gasoline prices and Global Warming.

Don't be hatin'.

I hate it when people bring up Blake's RBI and ignore his overall line .202 .286 .340 626 OPS.
Or his line the last 9 games .100 .206 .167 373 OPS.
Or his 5 errors.
Or his 4th worst in the ML for 3B Zone Rating.
I hate the fact that Blake hit into a DP with the tying run at 3B in game 7 of the ALCS and then made an error the next inning, turning a close game into one that became out of reach.
I hate it when people solely blame Marte when the FO certainly has had a hand in the mess.
I hate the fact that people who don't like reading bad stuff about Blake, click on a thread that says Blake has to be benched and then complain about what's in the thread. When it's in a lot of other threads you have a point.
Last edited by Duane Kuiper on Wed May 07, 2008 11:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Unread postby Duane Kuiper » Wed May 07, 2008 11:11 am

DrMemory wrote:However Victor Martinez has me very concerned as well. This year he's basically turned into Rod Carew with lead weights tied to his ankles. Not a good situtation for your #3 or #4 guy to turn into a slow-footed singles hitter.

Martinez had a bad leg injury. Being a catcher doesn't allow him to recover as quickly as other players.

He will regain his power. He just will never be fast.
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Unread postby CarolinaTribe » Wed May 07, 2008 11:43 am

Duane Kuiper wrote:
WiscTribeFan wrote:I hate the fact that every time I read a thread it involves several people whining about Casey Blake.
I hate the fact that he hit nearly .350 against Boston in the ALCS.
I hate the fact that the only person to blame for Andy Marte's situation is Andy Marte.
I hate the fact that Blake has more RBI than BP or Kouzmanoff.
I hate the fact that people seem to believe that Casey Blake is to blame for our horrible start, gasoline prices and Global Warming.

Don't be hatin'.

I hate it when people bring up Blake's RBI and ignore his overall line .202 .286 .340 626 OPS.
Or his line the last 9 games .100 .206 .167 373 OPS.
Or his 5 errors.
Or his 4th worst in the ML for 3B Zone Rating.
I hate the fact that Blake hit into a DP with the tying run at 3B in game 7 of the ALCS and then made an error the next inning, turning a close game into one that became out of reach.
I hate it when people solely blame Marte when the FO certainly has had a hand in the mess.
I hate the fact that people who don't like reading bad stuff about Blake, click on a thread that says Blake has to be benched and then complain about what's in the thread. When it's in a lot of other threads you have a point.



I don't know about others, but I was more so saying that the issue isn't Blake's fault.

If you think Blake should be benched then fine, but like Eck said it is management's problem. A lot of people have a hard time differentiating and end up bashing Blake for something out of his control.

Is there a better place to counter the Blake Basher's than this thread? Or since I don't agree with what the thread has turned into, I'm not allowed to speak?

The thread title is "Blake has to be benched!" Some have turned it into "I hate Casey Blake for not benching himself!"
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Unread postby TitoFrancona » Wed May 07, 2008 12:01 pm

Everyone should be hoping that they replace Blake at 3rd sometime this season. I agree he's on the downside of his career.

But nobody should be hoping it's Marte who replaces Blake. The guy can only hit straight fastballs thrown over the plate. He's just as bad defensively as Blake. Marte is not the answer to the 3rd base problem. He will be a career 4A player.

You people just need to quit harping on Marte over Blake. That's not going to resolve anything.
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Unread postby Eckersley » Wed May 07, 2008 12:05 pm

You're probably right Tito, but doesn't that make the FO look like idiots to have Marte taking up a roster spot if they know he's dead wood?
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