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The Jason Grimsley Fallout

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The Jason Grimsley Fallout

Unread postby swerb » Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:19 pm

David Segui appears to be the first of many names to be exposed in the Grimsley indictment. Interesting that Segui came out and said he told the Orioles org he was using HGH, and they were well aware he was using when he was an active member of the team.

Heard Buster Ohlney on Mike & Mike this morning, and he said he thought some BIG names were gonna come out of this, and likely soon.
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Unread postby pup » Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:17 pm

If 80% of the players are cheating, then is it really cheating? Wouldn't the steroids/HGH provide the same benefit to everyone who took them? If so, is what Barry Bonds accomplished really diminished?
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Unread postby swerb » Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:44 pm

Pup wrote:If 80% of the players are cheating, then is it really cheating? Wouldn't the steroids/HGH provide the same benefit to everyone who took them? If so, is what Barry Bonds accomplished really diminished?

If I had to guess, I would say that 20-25% of players were juicing in some way or form during The Steroid Era. I don't think the # was high enough to not diminish what Bonds did.
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Unread postby pup » Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:45 pm

I think you are seriously underestimating that number. If guys like Grimsley and Segui are doing it, you can be sure there are more than 25% of them doing it long term. Add in another high percentage that only did it for a year or two. I think it was way more common than most fans still think.
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Unread postby swerb » Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:18 pm

http://all-baseball.com/firebrand/

The Red Sox Used Steroids, Too
by Evan Brunell under Fire Brand of the American League


Well, it happened. The steroid outrage has reached out and touched the Red Sox. Former Sox pitcher Paxton Crawford has come out with an admission. You can find it in the latest ESPNMAG issue, or ESPN Insider’s article.

Crawford had a career 4.15 ERA in 65 IP for us - 15 games, 11 started at age 23 and 24, and then completely fell off the map.

"I was the type who was always in pain. During minor league spring training with the Red Sox in 1999, some of the other guys saw I was hurting. They told me that if I took this stuff, it would make the pain go away and cut my recovery time in half. Shoot, why not? I’m just a country boy; I didn’t even think twice. It seemed like everybody else was doing it, so it wasn’t a big deal, right? But steroids are like any drug: Once you try them and they make you feel good, you’re always going to want more. …

I was probably using the most back in 2001, when I made the Red Sox rotation out of spring training. About that time I was getting pretty big, and another player introduced me to human growth hormone, which had started to make the rounds in the majors. I got a kit with two bottles: One was filled with some kind of water, and the other was filled with these tiny crystals. I put a few drops into the crystals and — poof! — it became liquid. I thought, Boy, what the hell are you putting into your body? But I did it anyway."


Who else on the Sox in 2001 could have used HGH?

Who could it be?

Scott Hatteberg, Brian Daubach, Jose Offerman, Shea Hillenbrand, Mike Lansing, Manny Ramirez, Carl Everett, Trot Nixon, Dante Bichette, Chris Stynes, Troy O’Leary, Jason Varitek, Lou Merloni, Doug Mirabelli, Nomar Garciaparra, John Valentin … read the list here.

Names that for some reason jump to my mind: Dante Bichette, Jose Offerman, Troy O’Leary, Nomar Garciaparra. I say Nomar because he’s been riddled with injuries for a long time, and people have whispered about him in the past. For some reason, I think the most likely is Dante.

People talk about “‘roid rage,” and I was so sure the Deca would feed my aggression that I actually let up; I was going to the mound less pissed off than before. That’s when some of my teammates introduced me to greenies. …

One time, I walked right into the Red Sox clubhouse with a bunch of needles wrapped in a towel and left them on my chair. A few minutes later, one of my teammates came running over, saying, “Paxton, someone knocked your chair over and your freaking needles are all over the floor!” Man, we just died about that. He said it was the funniest thing he’d ever seen.
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Unread postby furls » Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:03 am

If 80% of the players are cheating, then is it really cheating? Wouldn't the steroids/HGH provide the same benefit to everyone who took them? If so, is what Barry Bonds accomplished really diminished?


Yes, I am pretty certain that mayes, ruth, and aaron were not juicing. Yet, statistically Bonds will join them. That is the travesty. The difference between warning track power and a HR is about 10 feet. The effect of roids is immeasurable and furthermore, i think that instead of putting an asterisk next to Bonds and other steroid era users stats we should put the asterisk next to the folks we know are clean.

The players from before 1985.
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Unread postby pup » Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:29 am

If you think so many guys are taking the stuff, then doesn't it level the playing filed back out?

If Barry was one of ten guys juicing, then yes, what he did is not very impressive. If he is one out of 500, then wouldn't everyone gain the same advantage? Wouldn't the pitchers be that much better, making it harder for someone to hit home runs off them? Wouldn't everyone be hitting 70 home runs if it was the steroids hitting them out?



Yes, I am pretty certain that mayes, ruth, and aaron were not juicing


They also weren't hitting off guys that were juicing.
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