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Merloni up....see ya Vazquez

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Merloni up....see ya Vazquez

Unread postby consigliere » Wed May 17, 2006 11:26 am

Merloni was added to the roster and called up to the Indians last night......Vazquez was optioned to Buffalo.

Wow. In the span of 5 days the Indians get rid of a major portion of fat on this team in Graves and Vazquez. What player(s) will now catch Buff's ire?

BTW, ACrank....sorry to see your boy Vazquez go. :twisted:
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Re: Merloni up....see ya Vazquez

Unread postby Steve Buffum » Wed May 17, 2006 12:13 pm

Consigliere wrote:What player(s) will now catch Buff's ire?

Well, I've always been a fan of the classics.

(IOW, Aaron Boone. Maybe Scott Sauerbeck.)

That isn't to say a player can't earn short-term vitriol (Perez' defense, Blake or Michaels on the basepaths, Jason Johnson without a sinker, etc.) ...
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Re: Merloni up....see ya Vazquez

Unread postby ACrank » Wed May 17, 2006 9:12 pm

Consigliere wrote:Merloni was added to the roster and called up to the Indians last night......Vazquez was optioned to Buffalo.

Wow. In the span of 5 days the Indians get rid of a major portion of fat on this team in Graves and Vazquez. What player(s) will now catch Buff's ire?

BTW, ACrank....sorry to see your boy Vazquez go. :twisted:


People don't get it. Its not a case of Vazquez being "my boy" its a case of Vazquez being a far better choice for Utility Infielder than Phillips. And right now i still think he is a better choice than Merloni - Merloni has a better bat, but there should be a major question about his being able to handle the position of short stop defensively. Asking an utility infielder to hit and forget the glove is fine if you have a Fantasy Baseball Team. The Indians have a real one.
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Unread postby consigliere » Thu May 18, 2006 9:51 am

I think the term "defense" is WAY over-stated when it comes to a utility player. For a team with established productive players at most positions, you are rarely going to sub late in games for defense. The utility guy on this team strictly needs to be able to 1.) play multiple positions at least decently and 2.) hit. While you aren't going to sub for a Belliard or Peralta late in games with your utility guy for "defense".....you WILL use that utility guy to rest those guys a game or two. That is why someone like Merloni is a way better fit than someone like Vazquez who is an automatic 3-4 outs a game.
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i don't think Merloni fits the profile

Unread postby ACrank » Fri May 19, 2006 11:13 am

sorry but i keep coming back to the position he played the most the last time he was here - platooning at first with Broussard - i have doubts that someone who is a first baseman can play second, short or third...

and i think the hitting aspect is overrated -besides how can you expect anyone to hit when they aren't being used regularly?

Sorry - i hope i am wrong, but i am not convinced that Merloni is the right choice
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Re: i don't think Merloni fits the profile

Unread postby Steve Buffum » Fri May 19, 2006 11:19 am

ACrank wrote:sorry but i keep coming back to the position he played the most the last time he was here - platooning at first with Broussard - i have doubts that someone who is a first baseman can play second, short or third...

Looking up his career stats becomes illustrative at this point.
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Let me rephrase it

Unread postby ACrank » Fri May 19, 2006 11:22 am

"i have doubts that someone who was [b]primiarly[/b] a first baseman can play second, short or third well."

Happy?
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Re: Let me rephrase it

Unread postby Steve Buffum » Fri May 19, 2006 11:31 am

ACrank wrote:"i have doubts that someone who was [b]primiarly[/b] a first baseman can play second, short or third well."

Happy?

Happy that you missed the point entirely? No.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/s ... t=fielding

Merloni played first for us because that's where we needed him.

In his CAREER, he's been primarily a middle infielder:

Code: Select all
Year  Primary Position
----  ----------------
1998  2B
1999  SS
2000  3B
2001  SS
2002  2B
2003  2B/3B (near-even split)


If anything it was the 1B duty in 2004 that was unusual.

Yes, he can play the other infield positions. As for "well," he's a pretty good SS and 2B, pretty bad at 3B, and excellent at 1B. (He's also a terrible LF according to 8 games worth of stats because he made one error.) I'm not worried about third because our third baseman is already bad and we have a backup (Blake) who is already bad.
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i've seen those stats

Unread postby ACrank » Fri May 19, 2006 11:35 am

& i think calling his playing first in 04 'highly unusual' might just be a compliment - i'm afraid its more indictative of a downslide in defensive ability (and the ankle injury - even tho he seems fully recovered from it - doesn't help my pov either).

Sorry - i should have acknowledged your point. I just happen to disagree with it.

(I hope i am wrong - i've been wrong many times before.)

At this point i am extremely hesitant about seeing Merloni starting at second or short - esepcially if Westbrook or Johnson are on the mound. So i really still don't think this is the right move to make.
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Re: i've seen those stats

Unread postby Steve Buffum » Fri May 19, 2006 11:50 am

ACrank wrote:At this point i am extremely hesitant about seeing Merloni starting at second or short - esepcially if Westbrook or Johnson are on the mound. So i really still don't think this is the right move to make.

I gotcha: I acknowledge that this is a concern, especially for the ground-ball inducers.

I read something disturbing last week: the Indians are (or were, at least), as a team, next-to-worst in the AL in turning balls in play into outs. Not talking errors or zone ratings or arcane stuff, just flat-out raw "he hit a non-homer into fair territory and we got him out." (Baseball Prospectus calls this "defensive efficiency;" the White Sox were insanely good at this last year.) For a team with only two starters who come close to striking out a guy an inning, this is a Bad Thing.

(I am not blaming this on infield hands or infield range or outfield speed or anything because I don't know the root cause, just the result.)

In any event, the starters are bad enough that there simply CAN'T be much downgrade when the UT enters. That's not good, either, but it suggests Merloni won't be noticeable one way or t'other.
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its probably worth a seperate thread

Unread postby ACrank » Fri May 19, 2006 1:29 pm

but i am beginning to be of the belief that one of two things needs to happen for this team:

1) Westbrook and/or Johnson both have to be traded (i can't understand for the life of me why Johnson was signed - not that he isn't worth to be a #5 starter and a place holder for Sowers/Carmona - more like why would a team want a sinkerballer when they have a prediliction for flyball pitchers)

or

2) Belliard either needs to be traded or moved to third (to replace Boone and until Marte is ready) with someone replacing Belliard at second - my choice is Jose Castillo - read something on another message board that suggests Castillo might be available for the right price - he is young, has the tools (i saw him when he was at Altoona and has a strong arm) , young, relatively cheap, and can be under Indians control for a long while

Not sure of the cost (the poster i bantered with suggested Casey Blake), but i would hope if it is possible its something Shapiro is looking at.
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Unread postby pup » Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:12 am

I just want to know how many people still think the need for a "utility" player in the mold of Ramon or Lou is important? To think we allowed BP to walk for either of these guys is absolutely mind boggling at this point.
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Unread postby pup » Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:41 am

Learned a couple of things:

1. Obviously Merloni cannot play SS
2. Obviously Vasquez cannot play SS
3. Our "utility players" suck balls
4. Wedge is still an idiot.

Closed door meeting after they finally win a game! Maybe he was taking their post-game orders for his trip to Dairy Queen to reward them for holding on to the 8 run lead in the 9th.

Got to hand it to Wedge for that masterful piece of coaching on Friday night! Had runners on 1st & 2nd with nobody out. Boone up to bat. Sac bunt right? No. swing away, K, no runs in the inning. Later in the same game, 1st & 2nd, nobody out and Michaels is bunting for a hit? Who gave that sign? Again, no runners advance and we do not score in the inning. Oh shit, we lost by 1, maybe I should have SAC bunted on those occasions. And we have a left-hander in the bullpen, correct? So why didn't we ever see him as the White Sox trotted 5 straight left handed hitters to the plate in the 8th?

Anyone else notice Ozzie laughing at Cabrera in that game? One of the funnier things I have ever seen in a MLB dugout. The opposing MANAGER making fun of your stud young reliever. That is a major lack of respect toward this organization and its coaching staff. Make fun of a respected or quality mangers guy like that, and something is going down. Not here though. He probably does not even kow it is going on.
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Unread postby swerb » Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:54 am

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