Text Size

Cleveland Indians & MLB

Rigs and the Perfect Storm

Talk Tribe, talk baseball in this forum.

Moderators: peeker643, swerb, pup, paulcousineau

Rigs and the Perfect Storm

Unread postby consigliere » Sat May 13, 2006 3:24 pm

Good piece......although last year at this time you were saying the same thing when we sucked, so maybe you have that Swerb affect where when you rip on someone/something, the opposite starts to happen. :wink:

Anyway, I gotta call you out on this one:

More so, the unwillingness of the Indians to enter into long term deals with any player is troubling. We all know Larry Dolan is “careful with his money,” but is Shapiro the main culprit here? After the disastrous contracts given to Lawton and Guitierez, is he too gun shy to lock into any long-term commitments?


Dude, where you been?

Sabathia, Hafner and Martinez last year...and Sizemore and Peralta this year, not to mention small multi-year deals to Byrd, Westbrook and Blake.

What more do you want? A multi-year deal to Broussard? Jason Michaels?

The only guys on this team lacking in long term deals to me are Lee and maybe Belliard. Lee will get his......

I just don't get this point at all.
Indians Prospect Insider: http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/
Image
User avatar
consigliere
 
Posts: 10822
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:22 am
Location: Painesville Twp, OH
Favorite Player: Jeff Stevens
Least Favorite Player: Carl Willis

Unread postby swerb » Sat May 13, 2006 10:40 pm

While I tire of Rigs always negative attitude, I liked this column alot, thought it was great.

I think he meant to say "long term commitments to free agents".
User avatar
swerb
JoBu's bee-yotch
 
Posts: 17919
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:04 pm
Location: Twinsburg, OH
Favorite Player: Mango Hab
Least Favorite Player: Bob LaMonte

Unread postby Jumbo » Sun May 14, 2006 2:31 pm

The Indians made a push for the division in 2005, the exact year he pinpointed a return to contention. And, to give credit where credit is due, 93 wins would have made the playoffs in most years.

Here's the thing about that "Perfect Storm": this is oversimplifying a bit. Now Rigs does note that Millwood and Wickman were on the block up until the trade deadline. They were kept, and the team began to excel...but even that covers over the fact that Indians were really mediocre for the first half of the season. As I noted in a CS post a few days ago, the Tribe was only one game over .500 on July 22, and only two above .500 on July 27 (the week before the deadline!):

July 27 / First 104 Games: 52-50
Remaining 58 Games: 41-17

So, here's the issue: the Indians for the first 4 months of the 2005 were worse than the team's "true talent level," while the last 2 months were much better than the team's talent level...leading to 93 wins.

Now, it's possible that this year's team is going through something similar, even if for different reasons. I've been disappointed, but I still don't think that this is merely a .500 team. OTOH, to expect a repeat of last year's final two months is hoping for too much...so, provided that the Indians can make their move sometime before late July, they can still be in decent shape.

Of course, the pessimist's view is that those last two months last year weren't just an anamoly, but one without any basis in reality...and the beginning of last season and this season so far are more accurate. But, you can't just ignore 41-17...right? :?
User avatar
Jumbo
Chowderhead
 
Posts: 949
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:29 pm
Favorite Player: is not Buster Posey
Least Favorite Player: A.J. Pierzynski

Unread postby pup » Sun May 14, 2006 4:17 pm

1. We were not good enough to win the divison LAST year
2. We lost the AL ERA champ
3. We lost the best setup man in baseball
4. We traded our .300 hitting #2 hitter for a prospect
5. The team that beat us out got better


1. True
2. We lost 9 wins
3. About losing Howry, we were losing him either way. Even if we gave him the contract he was looking for, he would be closing so we would be in the exact same spot. Howry was looking for a "closer" type deal and got one from the Cubs.
4. We are scoring plenty of runs without Coco.
5. Yes they did, but there is almost no way they play as well in one run games this year, so we got that going for ourselves.


About the free agency mess. What where they to do? AJ Burnett? That hasn't panned out to well. Hoffman was never leaving San Diego, without getting a share in ownership! Every other position we screamed for has played brilliantly. Perez/Broussard? Blake? Sure Boone still blows, but that has been addressed. I wouldn't be too concerend with Marte. They have him working on alot stuff down there, so his power numbers aren't there.
Home Run Leaders as RHB 5/7/13

Mark Reynolds (10)
User avatar
pup
Closet Shapiro Fan
 
Posts: 12020
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: Eastlake, Ohio
Favorite Player: Vince Shubrownicek
Least Favorite Player: Any other coach

Unread postby consigliere » Tue May 16, 2006 12:40 am

The Howry thing is over-simplified. I recall his interview on the radio, and the reports when he left. The Indians passed on Howry because he wanted the closer's role with this team. The Indians said no thanks. They both moved on.

The loss of Howry hurts.....but let's try and keep some truth so why he left. He wanted to be the closer here, and we didn't want to even entertain the idea.
Indians Prospect Insider: http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/
Image
User avatar
consigliere
 
Posts: 10822
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:22 am
Location: Painesville Twp, OH
Favorite Player: Jeff Stevens
Least Favorite Player: Carl Willis

Unread postby rigs » Tue May 16, 2006 1:01 pm

Yes, Swerb is right. I meant on the free agent market. Locking up arby years is saving money, not spending. CC is the only argument for somewhat of a free agent type deal by extending a grand total of two years.
No, Sykes, I am not advocating throwing money at Burnett. The Sox did it a different route, getting Vasquez and Thome through trades and increasing payroll/talent that way.
When we didn't bring back Millwood/Howry, traded Crisp, and can't sign a free agent, you have to find another way.
Spending money doesn't equal winning.
Not spending money equals not winning though.
Swerb, I do apologize for my negative columns, but one Cavs or Browns article would show a complete 180.
Consig, man, I am like you. I follow the Tribe on every level every night. I just don't share the same optimism as you. I hope I am wrong and you are right.
rigs
 
Posts: 468
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:59 am
Favorite Player: Jeff Mutis
Least Favorite Player: Dave Otto

Unread postby Steve Buffum » Tue May 16, 2006 1:02 pm

RIGS wrote:Swerb, I do apologize for my negative columns, but one Cavs or Browns article would show a complete 180.

Coulda used that last week.
.
User avatar
Steve Buffum
Prose Flayer
 
Posts: 5463
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:32 am
Location: Austin TX
Favorite Player: Withheld
Least Favorite Player: David Huff


Return to Cleveland Indians & MLB

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: gbot and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 181 on Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:50 pm

Users browsing this forum: gbot and 1 guest