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Why doesn't Hafner hit 3rd?

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Why doesn't Hafner hit 3rd?

Unread postby swerb » Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:42 am

I have been of the opinion for the last couple years that Travis Hafner should be hitting 3rd for this team against RHP.

Hafner is clearly the Indians best hitter. His OPS was 117 points higher than Peralta's last year, and 150 points higher than Victors.

He walks more than either of those guys. He strikes out at pretty much the same rate as Honny. Victor struck out 50 less times than either of them.

I have always been of the opinion that you should bat your best OPS guy in the 3 hole, unless he strikes out at a very high rate. He's going to pick up an extra at bat once or twice a week. He's always going to bat in the first inning. And I've never been of the opinion that you need your top HR guy batting cleanup. I like Victor as a cleanup guy, and feel he would provide adequate protection for Hafner.

Someone talk me through this ...
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Unread postby Jumbo » Sun Apr 02, 2006 10:13 am

I think there was never really any logic to Hafner hitting 4th. I think it was just that Victor started last season in the cleanup spot, and was in just a terrible slump they wanted to move him down so that he'd have less pressure. Pronk was the natural replacement. Since things have worked out reasonably well, they haven't felt pressed to make any changes.

But yes, numbers-wise, Hafner probably would be best suited at #3 with Martinez behind him.
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Unread postby pup » Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:29 am

Here is my Tribe lineup:

Grady
Peralta
Pronk
VMart
PhatRonnie
Perez/Brousard
Boone
Blake
Michaels

Left/right balance through 6 spots, and who is going to go situational vs the bottom 3?
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Unread postby consigliere » Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:37 pm

Ideally, Hafner should hit 3rd. But, Martinez is not a cleanup hitter, and I rathe rlike him hitting 5th. The problem is, we have like four #3 hitters in Grady, Hafner, Victor and Honny. I would actually like to see Victor hit 3rd (I like a switch hitter in that spot) and Hafner hit cleanup with Honny behind him.
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Not sure entirely what to make of this

Unread postby ACrank » Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:13 pm

But i found this article on "Hardball Times"

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/artic ... g-lineups/

from that they posted a way to list lineups based on obp and slug % - and using career stats came up with this listing of potential lineups - ranked by runs scored

http://www.baseballmusings.com/cgi-bin/LineupAnalysis.py?Player0=Sizemore&OBA0=.345&Slug0=.470&Player1=Michaels&OBA1=.380&Slug1=.442&Player2=Peralta&OBA2=.342&Slug2=.451&Player3=Hafner&OBA3=.388&Slug3=.556&Player4=Martinez&OBA4=.365&Slug4=.463&Player5=Belliard&OBA5=.341&Slug5=.412&Player6=Broussard&OBA6=.327&Slug6=.459&Player7=Boone&OBA7=.327&Slug7=.436&Player8=Blake&OBA8=.324&Slug8=.439&Model=0

the best lineup having Sizemore hitting 4th and Hafner hitting 2nd?

i'll admit not too sure what to make of all of this, but in reading this thread this came to mind and i was wondering what you guys thought of it...
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Unread postby pup » Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:04 pm

What is wronf with Victor hitting 4th? That is where he hit 2 years ago when he blew up. Last year he struggled early, but I don't think it was his spot in the lineup.
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Unread postby consigliere » Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:35 pm

Nothing wrong with Victor hitting 4th, just Hafner is a better cleanup hitter than Victor is. I think Victor would fit in nicely in the #3 hole at some point, as I like the switch-hitter and best "hitter" in such a slot.
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Unread postby pup » Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:46 pm

Swith hitter yes, but I think most in the organization would rank Hafner as the best hitter, not Victor.
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Unread postby consigliere » Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:49 pm

Depends.....who would you have considered a better "hitter": Robbie Alomar or Jim Thome. Each did things differently, but I think Robbie was the better hitter. I liken Martinez to Alomar, and Pronk to Thome.
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Unread postby pup » Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:54 pm

More like Pronk to Manny, Victor to Thome. Victor should settle in around .290, 25 homers. Hafner I can see being .310, 30+ homers. Hafner will take more walks and work the ball to the opposite field better as well.
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Unread postby consigliere » Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:08 am

I'm looking more at offensive potential and ability. Victor, offensively, is practically an Almoar clone as he can and should hit around .300 every year with 20 HRs and 80-100 RBIs. Hafner the past two seasons has proven to just about be a Thome clone. If Hafner's power number increase like I think they will, he essentially will be Thome.
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