Text Size

Cleveland Indians & MLB

Ferd Cabrera's Last Outing As An Indian?

Talk Tribe, talk baseball in this forum.

Moderators: peeker643, swerb, pup, paulcousineau

Ferd Cabrera's Last Outing As An Indian?

Unread postby swerb » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:54 pm

That was hard to watch.

He's been as frustrating to me as any player in my life as an Indians fan. Russell Branyan, Mark Lewis, and Albie "The Tribe Coulda Traded Me Straight Up For Pedro" Lopez are the other names that immediately come to mind.
User avatar
swerb
JoBu's bee-yotch
 
Posts: 17918
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:04 pm
Location: Twinsburg, OH
Favorite Player: Mango Hab
Least Favorite Player: Bob LaMonte

Unread postby Babrook » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:56 pm

I heard Jensen Lewis pitched?

Was he any good? IS THERE HOPE?
Image
User avatar
Babrook
Brendan Donnelly Groupie
 
Posts: 1172
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Sagamore Hills, Ohio
Favorite Player: Fausto Carmona
Least Favorite Player: Gary Sheffield

Re: Ferd Cabrera's Last Outing As An Indian?

Unread postby Wahoot » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:23 pm

Swerb wrote:That was hard to watch.

He's been as frustrating to me as any player in my life as an Indians fan. Russell Branyan, Mark Lewis, and Albie "The Tribe Coulda Traded Me Straight Up For Pedro" Lopez are the other names that immediately come to mind.


I forget, does Ferd has options left? Or will he be pitching for the Nationals next week?
User avatar
Wahoot
 
Posts: 600
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:39 am
Location: Hollywood, CA

Re: Ferd Cabrera's Last Outing As An Indian?

Unread postby CP » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:37 pm

Wahoot wrote:I forget, does Ferd has options left? Or will he be pitching for the Nationals next week?


out of options...
User avatar
CP
 
Posts: 1529
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:44 am
Location: Stow, Ohio
Favorite Player: Bernie Kosar
Least Favorite Player: Colt McCoy

Unread postby Tribefan24 » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:44 pm

it better be his last outing !

he is garbage

he has so much potential but its obvious this staff cant get anything out of him !

lewis by the way was pretty good... needs to work on his walks, but that may be caused by making his ML Debut
Tribefan24
 
Posts: 163
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:08 pm

Unread postby Hoover » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:52 pm

Babrook wrote:I heard Jensen Lewis pitched?

Was he any good? IS THERE HOPE?


He looked good. He had the jitters at first and walked 3, but didn't allow a run.

His heater gets up about 93 mph, and he's got a real good change. A couple batters were totally fooled by it. He's gotta work on command, but he's got the tools.
User avatar
Hoover
 
Posts: 1307
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:50 pm

Unread postby captain_wahoo » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:55 pm

I agree Cabrera has got to be DFA or traded tomorrow.
captain_wahoo
 
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:42 pm

Unread postby Hi Oktane » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:57 pm

Hoover wrote:
Babrook wrote:I heard Jensen Lewis pitched?

Was he any good? IS THERE HOPE?


He looked good. He had the jitters at first and walked 3, but didn't allow a run.

His heater gets up about 93 mph, and he's got a real good change. A couple batters were totally fooled by it. He's gotta work on command, but he's got the tools.


And that 93 probably looks faster with his shot-put delivery style (i.e, "sneaky fast").
"At least the Scots didn't have to tune in with the rest of the country and watch their women get plowed by Longshanks and his men."
~Commodore Perry on the difference between baseball's flawed economics : Indians :: prima nocta : Scots
User avatar
Hi Oktane
TPS Report Grader
 
Posts: 4835
Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 8:23 pm
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Favorite Player: Brother Red
Least Favorite Player: IHS

Unread postby consigliere » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:22 pm

Yeah, as talented as he is, it might be time to send him to another team for a fresh start.
User avatar
consigliere
 
Posts: 10822
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:22 am
Location: Painesville Twp, OH
Favorite Player: Jeff Stevens
Least Favorite Player: Carl Willis

Unread postby captain_wahoo » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:28 pm

Make your prediction....what time tomorrow do they DFA him??
captain_wahoo
 
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:42 pm

Unread postby cleveland yankees » Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:31 am

what does DFA mean?
User avatar
cleveland yankees
 
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:52 pm
Location: california

Unread postby MFRONE » Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:35 am

cleveland yankees wrote:what does DFA mean?

Designate for Assignment

When a player is DFA it means he's out of options and it pretty much means that they will be traded within 10 days or given an outright release. The Indians did this with Jason Davis and Roberto Hernandez earlier this season.
MFRONE
 
Posts: 338
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:38 pm

Unread postby cleveland yankees » Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:37 am

ty :P :-P :razz:
User avatar
cleveland yankees
 
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:52 pm
Location: california

Re: Ferd Cabrera's Last Outing As An Indian?

Unread postby psk678 » Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:16 am

Swerb wrote:That was hard to watch.

He's been as frustrating to me as any player in my life as an Indians fan. Russell Branyan, Mark Lewis, and Albie "The Tribe Coulda Traded Me Straight Up For Pedro" Lopez are the other names that immediately come to mind.


Yes, Cabrera is the epitome of an anomaly(weird wording, I know), but Russ Branyan was completly beyond understanding.

Anyway, Cabrera is probably gone and thats a shame. I thought he could have been something special with his stuff.

P.S. Wasn't it Jaret Wright for P.J. Martinez? or am I off?
User avatar
psk678
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 3:16 am
Location: parts unknown

Unread postby Prosecutor » Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:33 am

Cabrera could be DFA'd when they're ready to bring up Adam Miller. But I don't see any reason to do it today. The kid was actually pretty decent in his previous seven appearances (11 IP, 3 ER's), and he hasn't pitched in 10 days. It was obvious he was having control problems, falling behind the hitters and then having to groove a fastball (Did Konerko crush that 2-0 fastball or what?).

Releasing him would be a knee-jerk reaction to a horrible outing, much like the one Borowski had earlier this year.

I'd stick with him for now, especially since we don't have anybody good t replace him. Mujica is not pitching that well, and I'm not crazy about Koplove.

When Fultz comes off the DL sometime next week are we going to have to open up a spot for him? If so, it will be interesting to see if they send Jensen Lewis back down or DFA Cabrera.
Prosecutor
Plutonian Outliers
 
Posts: 2892
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 11:59 am

Unread postby The Math God » Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:45 am

I think Cabrerra is either going to have an "injury" and have to rehab in Akron or Buffalo or will go to somebody like KC for Dotel and they won't care how awful he is right now.
The Math God
 
Posts: 281
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:43 pm

Unread postby paulcousineau » Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:04 am

Down at the game, it was brutal.
The ChiSox were swinging first pitch, knowing that Cabrera is effective only when he's ahead of a hitter and was grooving the first pitch to try to go 0-1.
I think at one point, he had thrown 9 pitches and faced 5 batters.
I'm all for our relievers throwing strikes, but...oof.

Cabrera probably doesn't get DFA'd as it forces the Tribe to trade him in 10 days and ruins whatever negotiating position we have to deal him. That is, if he's DFA'd, the rest of the league knows he's hitting waivers anyway, so why would they trade for him?

The bullpen has enough flexibility with Stanford able to eat innings in losses and Lewis and Mastny having options and keeping the Buffalo shuttle going.
Cabrera really wasn't pitching all that much anyway that it's ABSOLUTELY necessary to get him off the team today.

He's not going to be worth much, but could be part of a package at the trade deadline and at this point, he needs a change of scenery.

It hurts me greatly to say that as a mere 16 months ago, I thought he was our K-Rod and would usurp the closer role from Wickman and fortify the back end of the bullpen for years to come.

Reality is a bitter pill though and The Fernando Cabrera Era, for me, ended last night.
Indians Fever...Be a Believer!
User avatar
paulcousineau
Celebrity
 
Posts: 604
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:21 am
Location: West Park

Unread postby swerb » Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:42 pm

This was great from Buff in The B-List:

3) Hey, that's stupid!

Fredo Cabrera came in. Why is he no longer Ferd, or even Fernando? Because he is dead to me. I forsake you, Fredo Cabrera. Get out of my life and do not come back.
User avatar
swerb
JoBu's bee-yotch
 
Posts: 17918
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:04 pm
Location: Twinsburg, OH
Favorite Player: Mango Hab
Least Favorite Player: Bob LaMonte

Unread postby Prosecutor » Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:44 pm

Looking at Cabrera's month-by-month stats, you'd swear he was a 22-year-old with great stuff but wildly inconsistent:

April 12 IP, 6 H, 18 K's, 3 walks, 1.50 ERA, .146 batting average against
May 7.2 IP, 12 walks, 11.74 ERA, .400 BAA

You can see how his control, which was good in April with only 3 walks in 12 innings, completely disintegrated in May, with predictable results.

In June his control improved somewhat, and so did the results:

8.2 IP, 5 walks, 3.12 ERA, .242 BAA

The thing is, he's not 22, he's 25, which means he's been pitching professionally for 7-8 years. Yet he's still maddeningly inconsistent.

Cabrera has trouble settling down when he first comes in:

Pitches 1-15: .338 BAA
Pitches 16-30: .229 BAA

Maybe he's too amped up or something, but if he can get through the first 15 pitches he's pretty effective. Which is why you never want to bring him in with men on base, right Eric?

The first two pitches to each batter are critical for Cabrera:

After 0-1: .218 BAA
After 0-2: .148
After 1-0: .333
After 2-0: .389

When Cabrera falls behind in the count he doesn't have the ability to fight back, even the count, and salvage the at-bat. It's all about his command. When he can spot his pitches, he gets ahead in the count, gets batters out, and walks very few, like he did in April. When he doesn't have his command he falls behind and grooves his fastball, like he did with Konerko last night.

This guy reminds me of Jason Davis. He's a teaser. When he's on, you start thinking of him in terms of a future closer. When he's off, you want to DFA him tomorrow. That's acceptable if the guy is 21 or 22, but Cabrera is already 25. He may never get it. Or he may struggle for five years like Guthrie and then get it as soon as we give him away.
Prosecutor
Plutonian Outliers
 
Posts: 2892
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 11:59 am

Unread postby Deja Vu » Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:45 pm

I don't know what to do with Cabrera. He has had these spurts of greatness the last few years and then spurts of being just horrible. He is very much like Jason Davis. You hate to give up on all that potential but we are in a race for the playoffs. I don't think they can afford to continue to let him work on his problems here. I don't know if his inconsistency is because of his mechanics, if the problem is between his ears or what but I'm beginning to believe it isn't going to be solved in Cleveland, if ever. Maybe a change of scenery would help him. Maybe not. It didn't do Jason Davis any good. He got DFA'd again.
Deja Vu
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:38 pm

Unread postby Duane Kuiper » Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:33 pm

The DiaTriber wrote: That is, if he's DFA'd, the rest of the league knows he's hitting waivers anyway, so why would they trade for him?


Because they know he won't pass through waivers and the only way they can acquire him is through a trade.
Duane Kuiper
 
Posts: 1666
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:42 pm
Location: Ohio

Unread postby paulcousineau » Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:40 pm

Duane Kuiper wrote:
The DiaTriber wrote: That is, if he's DFA'd, the rest of the league knows he's hitting waivers anyway, so why would they trade for him?


Because they know he won't pass through waivers and the only way they can acquire him is through a trade.


Understood. But it's not like they HAVE to DFA him immediately. If he can be packaged up with some other parts to get a useful reliever here fine.

The DFA is just premature.
Indians Fever...Be a Believer!
User avatar
paulcousineau
Celebrity
 
Posts: 604
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:21 am
Location: West Park

Unread postby Steve Buffum » Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:55 pm

The DiaTriber wrote:Understood. But it's not like they HAVE to DFA him immediately. If he can be packaged up with some other parts to get a useful reliever here fine.

The DFA is just premature.

They can still trade him during the DFA period.

I think they actually have to DFA him instantly, but he's still the property of Cleveland for 10 days or something.
User avatar
Steve Buffum
Prose Flayer
 
Posts: 5463
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:32 am
Location: Austin TX
Favorite Player: Withheld
Least Favorite Player: David Huff

Unread postby consigliere » Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:03 pm

Yeah, if DFAed, we would have 10 days to trade, release or outright him to the minors. To outright him to the minors he would have to clear waivers. Which won't happen. I mean, we picked up that Koronka (sp) guy off waivers the other day.....everyone is looking for arms, and Ferd's 95+ heat and good breaking ball would not clear waivers.
User avatar
consigliere
 
Posts: 10822
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:22 am
Location: Painesville Twp, OH
Favorite Player: Jeff Stevens
Least Favorite Player: Carl Willis

Unread postby paulcousineau » Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:29 pm

I'm aware of the wranglings of a DFA, but I just don't see what's wrong with sitting him in the bullpen until he can be included as part of a package, since Stanford can be used where Cabrera normally would and Lewis can be sent down for another arm in case of an absolute disastrous start.

If the message is, "Pitch like that and you're gone." Fine, send that message.

But it diminishes whatever little value he had on the trade market even further.

By the by, did anyone get the sense last night that Cabrera was left to twist in the wind for a while just like Hernandez did during his last outing.
Kind of the attitude of "you made the bed, sleep in it."

Of course, after Fernando went all Najeh Davenport in the bed, something had to be done.
Indians Fever...Be a Believer!
User avatar
paulcousineau
Celebrity
 
Posts: 604
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:21 am
Location: West Park

Unread postby pup » Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:15 pm

I'm aware of the wranglings of a DFA, but I just don't see what's wrong with sitting him in the bullpen until he can be included as part of a package, since Stanford can be used where Cabrera normally would and Lewis can be sent down for another arm in case of an absolute disastrous start.


Eric Wedge cannot handle a bullpen with a full assortment of opitions, taking one away sure ain't going to help him.

Wether he is DFAed or not, they will be looking to deal him in the next 10 days and it should not take that long. Go ahead and get someone useful up here and take what you can get.
Home Run Leaders as RHB 5/7/13

Mark Reynolds (10)
User avatar
pup
Closet Shapiro Fan
 
Posts: 12020
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: Eastlake, Ohio
Favorite Player: Vince Shubrownicek
Least Favorite Player: Any other coach

Unread postby MadThinker88 » Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:54 pm

Can I suggest Cabrera to the DL with an elbow or shoulder strain. It buys us time and also allows for a minor league rehab assignment of 30 days to work out some mechanical issues.

Just a thought on my part.
MadThinker88
In Tressel We Trust
 
Posts: 2634
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:01 am

Unread postby pup » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:05 pm

That would be a great idea, but I don't know how often that game is played up there. I am pretty sure there is a pretty stiff penalty for pulling a move like that.

Plus Fredo* would have to agree and after his treatment thus far that could be wishful thinking. It might be best for both sides to move on. Actually, you know it will work out best for him, it is just a matter of how poorly it works out for us.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Used with persmission of the B-List (I think. You don't mind do you Steve?)
Home Run Leaders as RHB 5/7/13

Mark Reynolds (10)
User avatar
pup
Closet Shapiro Fan
 
Posts: 12020
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: Eastlake, Ohio
Favorite Player: Vince Shubrownicek
Least Favorite Player: Any other coach

Unread postby paulcousineau » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:11 pm

Plus Fredo* would have to agree and after his treatment thus far that could be wishful thinking. It might be best for both sides to move on. Actually, you know it will work out best for him, it is just a matter of how poorly it works out for us.


What "treatment" do you mean?
Have the Indians blundered again and mishandled Cabrera?
Indians Fever...Be a Believer!
User avatar
paulcousineau
Celebrity
 
Posts: 604
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:21 am
Location: West Park

Unread postby MadThinker88 » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:16 pm

Pup wrote:That would be a great idea, but I don't know how often that game is played up there. I am pretty sure there is a pretty stiff penalty for pulling a move like that.


Hence the moniker: Mad THINKER

Hope to see you and others at the track Wedesday night.
MadThinker88
In Tressel We Trust
 
Posts: 2634
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:01 am

Unread postby pup » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:21 pm

The DiaTriber wrote:
Plus Fredo* would have to agree and after his treatment thus far that could be wishful thinking. It might be best for both sides to move on. Actually, you know it will work out best for him, it is just a matter of how poorly it works out for us.


What "treatment" do you mean?
Have the Indians blundered again and mishandled Cabrera?


No not really. Just the situation as a whole I guess. This is his problem, but I am sure most teams would be chomping at the bit to get him so maybe he doesn't feel he was offered the best oppurtunity for success here, that is all.

And Wedge's post game blasting (I didn't hear it but thought I heard he rode him pretty hard) probably doesn't have him feeling like doing anything to "help" the situation other than getting out of it.

This is where I probably need to add a disclaimer: ****I do not blame Mark Shapiro, anyone with the last name Dolan, or Eric Wedge for the inabilities of Fredo* to throw strikes. Sometimes a new voice, not even mattering who that voice is makes a difference and I am thinking that will be the case here. He will be an effective reliever somewhere, just probably not in Cleveland.****
Home Run Leaders as RHB 5/7/13

Mark Reynolds (10)
User avatar
pup
Closet Shapiro Fan
 
Posts: 12020
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: Eastlake, Ohio
Favorite Player: Vince Shubrownicek
Least Favorite Player: Any other coach

Unread postby Lokais » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:55 pm

Welp, according to mlb.com, he's not going anywhere. Can't wait til his next outting...
Lokais
 
Posts: 1717
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:06 pm
Location: New York City

Unread postby MadThinker88 » Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:48 pm

Just something I noticed after the game: F Cabrera, in uniform, walking behind Garko toward the dugout as Garko was trying to deal with the pie in the face (thanks to Barfield) during the post-game STO interview.
MadThinker88
In Tressel We Trust
 
Posts: 2634
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:01 am


Return to Cleveland Indians & MLB

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 2 guests (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 181 on Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:50 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests