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Some things that aggravate me in Baseball

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Some things that aggravate me in Baseball

Unread postby General » Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:09 am

I have been a dedicated baseball fan since Sept 5, 1969 when I attended a Yankee-Tribe twi-nighter. (Got an autographed ball from Larry Brown, and sat in seats right next to the Tribe dugout). Any way here is a few things that irritate me with baseball in it's current configuartion.
1. The DH-destroys strategy plus I get tired of tired old stars that can't carry leather being allowed to hang out and earn the GDP of a medium sized nation to interact 4-5 times per game.
2. Interleague play-ruins the WS mystique
3. Gimme a good blouse on your uniform pants, I am sick of these idiots running around in their PJ's
4. Baseball's impotence on the steroid issue.
5. The tubular strike zone- I enjoy 1-0 games as well as an occasional slugfest. (maybe raise mound again?).
6. The all star game and its surrounding hype.

These are just personal observations and I would be interested to hear if anyone shares these opinions or not.
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Unread postby Babrook » Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:11 am

Interleauge is a mixed bag for me. Some series need to happen, Yankees/Mets, Marlins/Rays, Angels/Dodgers, Astros/Rangers, etc. But stuff like Pittsburgh/Kansas? Useless. Have TWO Interleauge series, against the crosstown/state rival, one home, one away.
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Unread postby consigliere » Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:17 am

I prefer the DH....and hate the pitcher hitting. In this day and age where pitchers get paid big bucks to throw the ball, they shouldn't step anywhere near a batter's box. Plus, how much strategy is involved when the #9 hitter (the pitcher) is an easy out?

I can't stand interleague play. I'd like to see it go away, as I think it really detracts not only from the World Series, but also the All-Star game.

Also, the steroids stuff doesn't bother me, and I don't get all the uproar over it. Did Barry Bonds take roids? Yeah, probably. But, I don't care. Guy is one of the best ever with or without the roids.
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Unread postby The Math God » Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:14 pm

I concur
I HATE interleague play.
If you have a natural rivalry it is one thing.
I don't want to watch the Tribe play Florida.

The DH is a good thing. It lets pitchers do what they do best and I like it helping an old guy stick around. Not that I endorse this idea, but imagine what Barry Bonds would do as DH the rest of the season for the Indians (move Pronk to 1st). One could throw him in the OF on occasion.
Of course, he could get destroyed by the Roid investigation.
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Unread postby intenso » Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:09 pm

I like that the AL has the DH and the NL doesn't.
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Unread postby ArtGold » Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:17 pm

I'm kind of mixed on the DH, the improved performance allows Thome and Hafner type players to have a career/ongoing career, while it lessens a lot of strategy. It somewhat makes relief pitching more valuable as compared to starters.
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Unread postby swerb » Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:47 pm

I'm with intenso, I like how the two leagues are different with regards to the DH.

I would like to see interleague scaled back. One series early in the year, one late, against just your main rival. Some teams won't have one, maybe you mix those teams up from year to year.

I wouldn't mind seeing MLB raise the mound slightly.

The All-Star game is fine. I like it, and disagreed with the pieces by Beckwith and Benz this morning. The laissez faire attitude of the players is an unavoidable biproduct of how well paid and used to the limelight players are today. I like how it decides home field in the WS.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:55 pm

Consigliere wrote:I prefer the DH....and hate the pitcher hitting. In this day and age where pitchers get paid big bucks to throw the ball, they shouldn't step anywhere near a batter's box. Plus, how much strategy is involved when the #9 hitter (the pitcher) is an easy out?

I can't stand interleague play. I'd like to see it go away, as I think it really detracts not only from the World Series, but also the All-Star game.

Also, the steroids stuff doesn't bother me, and I don't get all the uproar over it. Did Barry Bonds take roids? Yeah, probably. But, I don't care. Guy is one of the best ever with or without the roids.


The fact that pitchers make big bucks is exactly why they SHOULD be hitting. You sit around on your ass for 5 months in the off-season. The fact that some of these guys can't lay down a bunt is inexcusable.
It is somewhat curious that many of the better pitchers in the league are also able to handle the bat. Probably because they WORK at it. This ain't 1940 where you need an off season job. You work HALF the year for 7 figs.

As far as stategy goes, Consig, you can't be serious. So much more strategy involved in the NL it's not funny. If the Yankees were a National League team, there is no way Joe Torre would have been able to nap thru 4 championship seasons.

Lastly, steroids have changed the game. If you don't care, fine, but understand what you've been seeing has not been real. Yes barry Bonds is a hall of fame calibe player without roids, but he became MUCH BETTER with them. The damn things work. And, before somebody gives me a headache with the "steroids only make you stronger, they don't give you the skill to hit a curve" argument. BARRY BONDS COULD ALREADY DO THAT SHIT. It doesn't make Lead Pipe a major league. But guys that already have big league skills, well, it makes them a hell of a lot more effective. Baseball embarrased themselves the way this issue was handled.
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Unread postby General » Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:14 pm

Thank you, Lead Pipe...don't forget the pants.
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Unread postby BadBecks » Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:18 pm

Swerb wrote:The All-Star game is fine. I like it, and disagreed with the pieces by Beckwith and Benz this morning. The laissez faire attitude of the players is an unavoidable biproduct of how well paid and used to the limelight players are today. I like how it decides home field in the WS.


Then allow me to play Skip Bayless in this debate my friend.

"If the winning this game and gaining home field advantage in the World Series is so important, then why did YOUR BOY Tony LaRussa let both Orlando Hudson and Aaron Rowand hit in the ninth inning with the winning runs on base with Albert Pujols waiting in the dugout to get into the game?

What LaRussa did was Mike Brown-esque...similar to when he coached ANOTHER one of YOUR boys...Prince James into the NBA Finals in what amounted to the worst coaching job by a Finals coach in basketball history!"

-Forgive me, I am home early today with First and 10 on in the next room. I'm a LBJ guy...the Skip talk was pure impression work. I think its time I go fire up Madden or something...
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Unread postby Birdman » Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:30 pm

I would prefer no DH in both leagues. Mostly for the reasons mentioned by lead pipe. I think that a pitcher should be able to pitch and HIT. Hey maybe there are some guys out there that would be pretty damn good at the plate if given a chance.

It is stupid that MLB gives the winner of the all-star game home field. I guess it is just too difficult to give this to the team with the best regular season record.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:10 pm

I love the DH and grew up with it. It's something that really sets the AL apart and opens the door for gifted hitters like Hafner who can't really play the field everyday. I don't think it messes up strategy much, it just changes it. Like Tony said, it removes the nearly automatic out that the pitcher often is. I hate watching pitchers try to hit the ball, thinking the whole time that I could probably do better with practice than some of them. Bob Uecker could hit better than 90% of these guys and Uecker was horrific.

I hate interleague play. It was an interesting novelty at first just because you got to see the other league a bit more, but the novelty is gone and it damages the WS and the All-Star game. I think that's the easiest fix for the All-Star game - drop interleague play. That'd me AL and NL only play in the Fall Classic and the Midsummer Classic. The MLB All-Star Game is still the best, but only because all of the All-Star games stink bad. Getting rid of interleague play would also allow for the balanced schedule to return. That's something I want badly.

There is one benefit to the All-Star game deciding homefield - it pretty much assures the AL will get the homefield every year. The National League has not won in over a decade, getting a tie once (and what a sham that was).
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Unread postby General » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:25 pm

I still think the DH cheapens the game. Yes the pitchers hit about .150, but it made the manger think whether it was worth it to have him hit, bunt, or get pinch hit for. I enjoyed the sluggers in their prime, but give me the guys like young Barry, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Roberto Clemente...the guys that could do it all run, hit power, hit average, field, throw...you get it. I guess I am an old guy (46) in a young guys world. I miss the total all around guys and I think that the DH is a bastardization of the game. Plus maybe some of you research gurus can debate the impact of the DH on salary levels, if any. Hasn'e all of this AARP talent bloated payrolls for one dimensional contributions. Plus the pants just don't look right.
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Unread postby mswerb » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:08 pm

My barber had a good idea on what to do with the DH during interleague play. In the National League parks, let the DH role take place, while in the American Parks let the pitchers hit. This way fan of the Ameican league teams can see the pitchers bat, and the NL fans can get a taste of the DH role. Not a bad idea if you ask me. My barber is a wise old man, kinda like Yoda.
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Unread postby FUDU » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:19 pm

I too am mixed on inter league play.

Although it is pretty damn cool I am one of very few people that can say I have been to an Indians Dodgers game in Cleveland.

Steroids issue really bugs me, it is just a slap in the face to everything that is legit about fair competition. Although now that I think about it how fitting baseball doesn't care, after all baseball is the most notorious cheating sport of all time.
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Unread postby Hoover » Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:15 pm

mswerb wrote:My barber had a good idea on what to do with the DH during interleague play. In the National League parks, let the DH role take place, while in the American Parks let the pitchers hit. This way fan of the Ameican league teams can see the pitchers bat, and the NL fans can get a taste of the DH role.


That would help sway fans to the value of the DH. And it would reinforce to AL fans why letting pitchers hit is stupid. As I watched Carmona flail away last month, it was obvious why they should never hit. It just makes a good game boring.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:38 pm

I like the NL way, some here have expressed the AL way.

I say either way, they need to make the rule uniform across both leagues.

On the strategy issue. There are several people reading this board that could have managed the Yankees to a championship in the late nineties. Torre sat there, half asleep, thru a starter out there, used Rivera in the 7th and 8th and brought on Wetteland to slam the door. Veterans like Paul Oneill to keep guys in line. You hardly needed a pulse. If pitchers hit and there was the need for double switches, well than you might have to think.

Look, Joe Torre seems like a nice guy, but how that was considered good managing? You'd have to be a moron to blow it. Plus, you get every damn guy you need for the stretch run.
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Unread postby BadBecks » Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:02 pm

Lead Pipe wrote:I say either way, they need to make the rule uniform across both leagues.


I agree with you completely. Suppose the NBA did something like this in which the East didn't use a three point line at their home games and the more advanced Western Conference did use one at theirs for interconference games?

I know everyone is thinking "but in baseball they are seperate leagues!" My answer is that they USED to be. Now they all operate from the same office/league president, share the same umpires, and now they play each other during the season. These three key elements didn't exist 10 or 15 years ago when the "separate" arguement was viable. Now they are only separate leagues only in name.

I'm for letting the AL pitchers hit again. I am a fan of both the double switch as well as seeing C.C. launch a ball or two in the seats a year like he did in Cincy in the past.
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Unread postby swerb » Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:51 pm

BadBecks wrote:
Swerb wrote:The All-Star game is fine. I like it, and disagreed with the pieces by Beckwith and Benz this morning. The laissez faire attitude of the players is an unavoidable biproduct of how well paid and used to the limelight players are today. I like how it decides home field in the WS.


Then allow me to play Skip Bayless in this debate my friend.

"If the winning this game and gaining home field advantage in the World Series is so important, then why did YOUR BOY Tony LaRussa let both Orlando Hudson and Aaron Rowand hit in the ninth inning with the winning runs on base with Albert Pujols waiting in the dugout to get into the game?

What LaRussa did was Mike Brown-esque...similar to when he coached ANOTHER one of YOUR boys...Prince James into the NBA Finals in what amounted to the worst coaching job by a Finals coach in basketball history!"

-Forgive me, I am home early today with First and 10 on in the next room. I'm a LBJ guy...the Skip talk was pure impression work. I think its time I go fire up Madden or something...

Becks, I guess all I am saying is that the nature of sports today almost makes it impossible for these guys to care as much about an All-Star game as Pete Rose did when he took out Fosse.

Back in the day, this was these guys one chance to get on TV. And they made a pittance. Today, these guys are accustomed to being seen by millions of people every night. And the average All-Star salary is well into the millions, which tempers how hard they will go in a game with little to no meaning.

All-Star games in general suck in todays climate, this is for sure. But baseball's is still the best IMO, and there's little they need to change with it in my view.
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Unread postby BadBecks » Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:02 pm

Swerb-

That impression was more about being Skip than logical. I am sure you got that part though judging by the fact that you see many of my posts.

You have good points about the AS game, my whole gripe is that many of the game's changes have "lowered the bar" so to speak, down toward the NBA and other AS games from other sports. Though baseball is still the best, its not what it once was IMO.

Did I just use the word "logical" in a message post???
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Unread postby ArtGold » Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:33 pm

The new color scheme for this site aggravates me, I can't see sufficient contrast to stay updated on the postings.
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Unread postby ClevelandBuckeyes35 » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:42 pm

All of that is pretty resonable
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Unread postby leadpipe » Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:16 pm

Swerb wrote:
BadBecks wrote:
Swerb wrote:The All-Star game is fine. I like it, and disagreed with the pieces by Beckwith and Benz this morning. The laissez faire attitude of the players is an unavoidable biproduct of how well paid and used to the limelight players are today. I like how it decides home field in the WS.


Then allow me to play Skip Bayless in this debate my friend.

"If the winning this game and gaining home field advantage in the World Series is so important, then why did YOUR BOY Tony LaRussa let both Orlando Hudson and Aaron Rowand hit in the ninth inning with the winning runs on base with Albert Pujols waiting in the dugout to get into the game?

What LaRussa did was Mike Brown-esque...similar to when he coached ANOTHER one of YOUR boys...Prince James into the NBA Finals in what amounted to the worst coaching job by a Finals coach in basketball history!"

-Forgive me, I am home early today with First and 10 on in the next room. I'm a LBJ guy...the Skip talk was pure impression work. I think its time I go fire up Madden or something...

Becks, I guess all I am saying is that the nature of sports today almost makes it impossible for these guys to care as much about an All-Star game as Pete Rose did when he took out Fosse.

Back in the day, this was these guys one chance to get on TV. And they made a pittance. Today, these guys are accustomed to being seen by millions of people every night. And the average All-Star salary is well into the millions, which tempers how hard they will go in a game with little to no meaning.

All-Star games in general suck in todays climate, this is for sure. But baseball's is still the best IMO, and there's little they need to change with it in my view.


Also, if I'm not mistaken, there was more cash for the winning team, back when a 15,000 dollar bonus would have meant something. Hell, I still remember the playoffs in the 70's, when the talk of the extra money each player got for advancing got signifcant coverage.

The fact these guys have so much cash they'd rather have the time off has much to do with it, in every major sport.
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