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Bonds

Unread postby swerb » Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:43 am

This is almost surreal. Quite possibly the most storied and prestigious record in all of sports is about to be broken. And no one even gives a shit. No one. Most sports fans are dreading it.

If you would have told me that ten years ago, I would have laughed at you. Even five years ago.

Hank Aaron, one of the all time good guys in the sport, one of the trailblazers for minorities ... he won't even talk about it, and showing up to see it happen was never an option. The commissioner may not even attend. What should be the biggest story in the last decade of baseball is now something that the game is trying to shove under the rug.

Making matters worse? This steroid abusing prick Bonds is skipping the HR Derby tonight!

As the poster boy for the one of the greatest scandals in the history of recent sports, he should be required not only to participate, but to do so after bathing in the clear and the cream for about two days before hand.

How great would it be to see Bonds trot out there tonight and blast 35-40 home runs per round at age 42? Ball after ball into the cove. Majestic 480 foot blast after majectic 480 foot blast. Doing things in old age that he could not do as a 28 year old man in his thought to be prime.

For one night, baseball should embrace the scandal that nearly brought the sport to its knees and put Bonds on display like the lab experiment he essentially is.
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Unread postby pup » Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:52 am

Couple of points to make.

1. The commisioner did not attend when Aaron broke the record either.
2. Baseball has embraced the scandal. That is why there is a scandal. There is noone to blame more than Bud Selig for all of this nonsense. There is an entire chain of events that led to the steroid era and ALL of them started at his doorstep.


This is not to forgive, or even be OK with what Bonds has done. Or the personality he has maintained through all of this. At the same time, it is only because of his personality that this is a "problem". If McGwire was the guy chasing the record today, it would all be swept under a rug. Even if it was Sosa the backlash would be nowhere near where it is today.

Damn, Sosa is being celebrated for his return this year. I would bet one of my paychecks against one of his any day of the week that he is still taking HGH. He went clean and sucked donkey balls. Then he caught on to the fact they still can't test, got back on and is hitting home runs again.

The guilt of the scandal starts at the top and rolls downhill.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:33 pm

The moral of the story....don't be an asshole.
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Unread postby tribefan333 » Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:15 pm

I've been a fan of Bonds ever since I watched him flip his bat after he on the '96 HR durby (I was 6, one of the first/greatest events I've watched).

I'd like for nothing more than to him be proven innocent, and this record should be the biggest thing in 2007, but theres so much glaring critism with the roids it's hard for everyone to get excited.

It is possible for him to get that strong in the time he did. Just unlikely, but I hope its true.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:32 pm

Dude, his cap size grew 1/2 inch, his uniform jersey went from 42 to 52 and his shoe size went from eleven to THIRTEEN. All since being with the Giants. (This was testimony under oath from Mike Murphy, Giants equipment manager.) The glaring ctiticism is valid. He a roid head and an asshole.
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Unread postby FUDU » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:39 pm

Quite possibly the most storied and prestigious record in all of sports is about to be broken. And no one even gives a shit. No one. Most sports fans are dreading it.


This pretty much covers the whole story.

When it happens I will probably go WOW this record got eclipsed in my lifetime, but ten seconds later I will probably have already forgotten about it.

One good thing about this record, that isn't normally the case with this specific record or other similar records, is that it will not stand long at all (usually they last decades). IMO at most 6 years, and that is if ARod really slows down or misses serious time due to injury.
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Unread postby swerb » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:39 pm

The sheer size of his cranium is what is most amusing to me. He looks like something that was created in a laboratory.

Image
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Unread postby intenso » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:42 pm

What's going to be a big deal is when somebody breaks Bonds' record. It will probably be A-Rod though.

Maybe the moral is to be an asshole. They seem to succeed at everything.
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Unread postby swerb » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:48 pm

Image
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Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:56 pm

intenso wrote:What's going to be a big deal is when somebody breaks Bonds' record. It will probably be A-Rod though.

Maybe the moral is to be an asshole. They seem to succeed at everything.


Actually, this whole asshole thing is fascinating to me, especially how it relates to the sports and entertainment industry. Positive public perception in this regard, pretty much allows you to do anything, and people will forgive you.

Pup is correct, if Bonds has McGwires "Juice" (so to speak) this would be as big a sports story as there been in years. The fact the guy is possibly the biggest asshole of all time is the ONLY thing tarnishing it. People would look past the roids if he was beloved. They just would.

Look at our world. People still go see Woody Allen movies, even though he's a disgraceful pedophile. The king of Pop's name is finally smeared, but it took several hands down several childs drawers before people believed. Pete Rose has been dispicable forever, but people had to be brough beat into seeing it. Why do we believe Lance Armstrong but not Greg Lemond? Roger Clemens throws a BAT at another player....and on and on...

Intenso, you confusing the moral here. It's not that good things don't happen to assholes. They obviuosly do. It's the point that, in the sports/entertainment world, if an asshole does a bad thing, it causes problems, if a good guy does a bad thing, people will pretend it never happened.
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Unread postby pod2dawg » Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:16 pm

Image

Swerb, nice picture of Omare Moreno and Bonds.
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Unread postby FUDU » Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:17 pm

Look at our world. People still go see Woody Allen movies, even though he's a disgraceful pedophile. The king of Pop's name is finally smeared, but it took several hands down several childs drawers before people believed. Pete Rose has been dispicable forever, but people had to be brough beat into seeing it. Why do we believe Lance Armstrong but not Greg Lemond? Roger Clemens throws a BAT at another player....and on and on...

Intenso, you confusing the moral here. It's not that good things don't happen to assholes. They obviuosly do. It's the point that, in the sports/entertainment world, if an asshole does a bad thing, it causes problems, if a good guy does a bad thing, people will pretend it never happened.


Good points.

I think most of it comes down to common sense of the people really.

People are not as stupid as we think.

People see the evidence, or at least the evidence that is reported, and they make a value judgment. Does is makes sense?

IE: Lance, IMO, there appears to be very little evidence against him, people see that, he doesn't look like a freak (I mean yeah he is way too thin) and he is otherwise clean and stays out of the news. So in the vast majority of people's mind he is not using or has ever used.
Bonds, is the exact opposite argument.
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Unread postby Babrook » Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:19 pm

Swerb wrote:Image


BS.

A-Rod could get way hotter chicks then that.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:35 pm

FUDU wrote:
Look at our world. People still go see Woody Allen movies, even though he's a disgraceful pedophile. The king of Pop's name is finally smeared, but it took several hands down several childs drawers before people believed. Pete Rose has been dispicable forever, but people had to be brough beat into seeing it. Why do we believe Lance Armstrong but not Greg Lemond? Roger Clemens throws a BAT at another player....and on and on...

Intenso, you confusing the moral here. It's not that good things don't happen to assholes. They obviuosly do. It's the point that, in the sports/entertainment world, if an asshole does a bad thing, it causes problems, if a good guy does a bad thing, people will pretend it never happened.


Good points.

I think most of it comes down to common sense of the people really.

People are not as stupid as we think.

People see the evidence, or at least the evidence that is reported, and they make a value judgment. Does is makes sense?

IE: Lance, IMO, there appears to be very little evidence against him, people see that, he doesn't look like a freak (I mean yeah he is way too thin) and he is otherwise clean and stays out of the news. So in the vast majority of people's mind he is not using or has ever used.
Bonds, is the exact opposite argument.


But FUDU, there IS much evidence against Lance, but people don't want to see it.

Look, by all accounts the guy has done MUCH good with the cancer awareness situation. Perhaps this is one huge reason where calling his usage into question is taboo. And, who am I ? I have no proof. But, we'll certainly convict a jerk-off on evidence and no proof. Not to get into a hundred details against the guy, but some MAJOR issues that the public seems to be uninterested in him answering such as - being associated with known suppliers, being called out on the carpet by Lemond, having an associate filmed throwing garbage from his house 100 miles away, in a sport where many of the top riders are either being caught or admitting doping - we are to assume he was better than all the drug enhanced riders (And, if you look at the progress made in times when the high level drugs came into vogue, this would seem highly unlikely), the timing of his ascent in correlation with drugs and masking, and on and on.

Look, I'm not saying there is proof, but there are certainly some odd things that you would think people would want clarification on. Everytime a point is brought up it's "the crazy French Lab" etc. But in the public eye he is gold. You might even throw drugs out for a second. What if Bonds dropped his wife for the rock star? I highly doubt they would be perceived as the cute, trendy couple.

There are a TON of examples just like this.

And to me, it's an interesting reflection on our world.
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Unread postby e0y2e3 » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:39 pm

Lead Pipe wrote:
FUDU wrote:
Look at our world. People still go see Woody Allen movies, even though he's a disgraceful pedophile. The king of Pop's name is finally smeared, but it took several hands down several childs drawers before people believed. Pete Rose has been dispicable forever, but people had to be brough beat into seeing it. Why do we believe Lance Armstrong but not Greg Lemond? Roger Clemens throws a BAT at another player....and on and on...

Intenso, you confusing the moral here. It's not that good things don't happen to assholes. They obviuosly do. It's the point that, in the sports/entertainment world, if an asshole does a bad thing, it causes problems, if a good guy does a bad thing, people will pretend it never happened.


Good points.

I think most of it comes down to common sense of the people really.

People are not as stupid as we think.

People see the evidence, or at least the evidence that is reported, and they make a value judgment. Does is makes sense?

IE: Lance, IMO, there appears to be very little evidence against him, people see that, he doesn't look like a freak (I mean yeah he is way too thin) and he is otherwise clean and stays out of the news. So in the vast majority of people's mind he is not using or has ever used.
Bonds, is the exact opposite argument.


But FUDU, there IS much evidence against Lance, but people don't want to see it.

Look, by all accounts the guy has done MUCH good with the cancer awareness situation. Perhaps this is one huge reason where calling his usage into question is taboo. And, who am I ? I have no proof. But, we'll certainly convict a jerk-off on evidence and no proof. Not to get into a hundred details against the guy, but some MAJOR issues that the public seems to be uninterested in him answering such as - being associated with known suppliers, being called out on the carpet by Lemond, having an associate filmed throwing garbage from his house 100 miles away, in a sport where many of the top riders are either being caught or admitting doping - we are to assume he was better than all the drug enhanced riders (And, if you look at the progress made in times when the high level drugs came into vogue, this would seem highly unlikely), the timing of his ascent in correlation with drugs and masking, and on and on.

Look, I'm not saying there is proof, but there are certainly some odd things that you would think people would want clarification on. Everytime a point is brought up it's "the crazy French Lab" etc. But in the public eye he is gold. You might even throw drugs out for a second. What if Bonds dropped his wife for the rock star? I highly doubt they would be perceived as the cute, trendy couple.

There are a TON of examples just like this.

And to me, it's an interesting reflection on our world.


Pipe is dead on here. The masses simply turn a blind eye to anything bad King Lance does because they don't want to see it. Nietzsche needs to hit him with a hammer or something.
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Unread postby FUDU » Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:11 pm

One point about Lance is he has never tested positive, and yet he has tested IIRC.

I still afford Bonds that right, he has not tested positive ever however there is physical evidence to the fact he most likely did use, where as Lance does not have any physical evidence even in the world of cycling.

Lemond really does no good for the case against Lance. I mean after all if cycling is as tainted a sport as the media claims it is, and they claim it to be the hugest doping circuit in the sports world, then who is Greg Lamont to come out against a cyclist? Add to that the French reasons for their witch hunt. Let's face it, it is their sport in their back yard and it was being ridiculously dominated by and American (for the second time in 15 years). I am not a cyclist by any means, but do have an Iron man competing cousin who does cycle, and he says there is little more that French hate then American cyclists and sportsman. I can buy that by what is going on.

EVERYTHING surrounding Barry and this issue is controversial, however not the case with Lance. Sure their is controversy but not every single newly reported item of interest gains a head of steam b/c there have been legit and sensible explanations and tests?

Something must be said for a man's willingness to be tested for the substance and his unwillingness to be tested.

My two cents.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:21 pm

For the record Greg Lemond had nothing to gain, and also the info he has gone public with was asked of him. He wasn't crying from the mountain top. Look, I'm not trying to get into a Lance Armstrong thing. Just that he's a prime example of the point I'm trying to get across.

Plus, the sooner Lance fades away the sooner the American public can stop pretending that they give a rat's ass about bicyle racing.

Bottom line, if you're a nice enough guy, and are in the sports and entertainment world, you can damn near kill someone and come out smelling like a rose.
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Unread postby StewieG » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:10 pm

Bonds will likely never be convicted in the courts. Innocent until proven guilty.

But in public opinion, where guilt or innocence is whatever the fuck people think, he's guilty as sin. Just look at him. Look at what he's done when most people have already retired. In public opinion, that's all you need.

But what dooms him, is he's an asshole. People don't like Barry the man. Therefore they're quick to judge his life, and his accomplishments, as worthless. If Griffey were about to break the record, not Bonds, you better believe there would be fanfare. Hank Aaron and Selig would be there every step of the way. He'd be cheered on the road. Why? Because people like him.

With Lance Armstrong, there's probably about as much real evidence as there is with Bonds (although cyclists are subject to random drug tests year round. They have to submit any time they go on a trip, because if the testers show up where they're supposed to be, and they're not there, I think it counts as a failed test). But there's no visual evidence like there is with Bonds (no big head, no growing feet, etc). Maybe Armstrong is really good at beating the testing. Maybe he's got some great connections. But Armstrong is hated by the French, and that's good enough reason for me to like him.
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Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:10 pm

Lead Pipe wrote:For the record Greg Lemond had nothing to gain, and also the info he has gone public with was asked of him. He wasn't crying from the mountain top. Look, I'm not trying to get into a Lance Armstrong thing. Just that he's a prime example of the point I'm trying to get across.

Plus, the sooner Lance fades away the sooner the American public can stop pretending that they give a rat's ass about bicyle racing.

Bottom line, if you're a nice enough guy, and are in the sports and entertainment world, you can damn near kill someone and come out smelling like a rose.


A tearful, carefully rehearsed, sincere apology would have the public defending Bonds, Giambi, Sosa, McGwire, etc like they were wounded fawns.

Why? Because 95% of the world is made up of idiots.

I've mentioned this before in other forums and in other articles, but the fact is is that Barry Bonds is an adultering, lying, tax cheating asshole. That is simply fact. The guy turned Jeff Kent, in the top 5 MLB assholes, into a beloved figure briefly after they fought in the dugout some years ago.

Also fact is he is one of, if not THE, greatest player in the history of baseball who'd have two more MVP awards to go with the bazillion he already has if fact #1 wasn't so stunningly true.

As for the HR Derby- "Back, back, back, back, back- all the way to Sausalito/Alcatraz/The Bay Bridge/Presidio/etc."
Man, that shit is both funny and fresh every time I hear it.
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Unread postby pod2dawg » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:25 pm

StewieG wrote: But Armstrong is hated by the French, and that's good enough reason for me to like him.


YES!!!!!!
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Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:09 pm

Peeker643 wrote:
Lead Pipe wrote:For the record Greg Lemond had nothing to gain, and also the info he has gone public with was asked of him. He wasn't crying from the mountain top. Look, I'm not trying to get into a Lance Armstrong thing. Just that he's a prime example of the point I'm trying to get across.

Plus, the sooner Lance fades away the sooner the American public can stop pretending that they give a rat's ass about bicyle racing.

Bottom line, if you're a nice enough guy, and are in the sports and entertainment world, you can damn near kill someone and come out smelling like a rose.


A tearful, carefully rehearsed, sincere apology would have the public defending Bonds, Giambi, Sosa, McGwire, etc like they were wounded fawns.

Why? Because 95% of the world is made up of idiots.

I've mentioned this before in other forums and in other articles, but the fact is is that Barry Bonds is an adultering, lying, tax cheating asshole. That is simply fact. The guy turned Jeff Kent, in the top 5 MLB assholes, into a beloved figure briefly after they fought in the dugout some years ago.

Also fact is he is one of, if not THE, greatest player in the history of baseball who'd have two more MVP awards to go with the bazillion he already has if fact #1 wasn't so stunningly true.

As for the HR Derby- "Back, back, back, back, back- all the way to Sausalito/Alcatraz/The Bay Bridge/Presidio/etc."
Man, that shit is both funny and fresh every time I hear it.


Ted Williams lost the MVP award during a TRIPLE CROWN year because, well, the public thought he was an asshole.

I am purposly not turning on ESPN at all tonight.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:24 pm

A quick story on the "Bonds is an asshole" front.

Last year the wife had commencement for her doctorate close to the Arizona State campus, so, the day before the ceremony while she's doing the ole' walk-thru I decide to check out the campus. Now, I know two things coming in, 1. Barry Bonds was not liked while he was in college either. Word is he was always throwing it in peoples faces about how much money he was losing playing there instead of going pro and always bragging about his dad- you know, the whole self centered child of privledge deal. and 2. There was going to be a huge display honoring Pat Tillman.

So I'm over at the basketball arena where their hall-of-fame is and sure enough Pat Tillman stuff all over the place and rightfully so. However, even though I knew what I knew going it, it was still amazing how lillte mention of Bonds there was. Here is arguably the greatest player ever and it would be hard to distinguish his accomplishments than a hundred other alumni. I'll put it to you this way, there were swimmers and BAD MINTON players with equal space, and a guys like Terrell Suggs and Rick Monday dwarfed his honors.

Congratulations ASU, on giving that miserable prick the little respect he deserves.
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Unread postby tribefan333 » Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:30 pm

Lead Pipe wrote:Dude, his cap size grew 1/2 inch, his uniform jersey went from 42 to 52 and his shoe size went from eleven to THIRTEEN. All since being with the Giants. (This was testimony under oath from Mike Murphy, Giants equipment manager.) The glaring ctiticism is valid. He a roid head and an asshole.


Wow I didn't know that....that's some pretty relevant information. But should he be in the HOF? YES. Look at all the MVP's hes won over the years. Should there be a * by his HR records? I'm not sure. I don't want there to be one, but if he's cheated then yes. He's about to become the HR king, something needs to be decided. Now.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:01 pm

tribefan333 wrote:
Lead Pipe wrote:Dude, his cap size grew 1/2 inch, his uniform jersey went from 42 to 52 and his shoe size went from eleven to THIRTEEN. All since being with the Giants. (This was testimony under oath from Mike Murphy, Giants equipment manager.) The glaring ctiticism is valid. He a roid head and an asshole.


Wow I didn't know that....that's some pretty relevant information. But should he be in the HOF? YES. Look at all the MVP's hes won over the years. Should there be a * by his HR records? I'm not sure. I don't want there to be one, but if he's cheated then yes. He's about to become the HR king, something needs to be decided. Now.


That info and much, much more in George Will's column in the May 21st edition of Newsweek. I'm not a link guy nor do I know what kind of online operation Newsweek runs, but you may be able to find the article there. I read it hard copy.

With the enormous amount of sighted info out there, one who doesn't think Bonds roided up would have to put themselves in the same group with those who think OJ didn't hack a pair to death.

As far as the HOF is concerned there are two obviously two views on the whole situation. In regards to the HOF and the points in this thread...the guy isn't getting in on the first ballot, soley because he's an asshole.
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Unread postby pup » Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:25 pm

Was that his normal batting helmet, or did he get a smaller one for tonight to try to rub it in some faces? That thing would barely fit Reyes.
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