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Attendance Problems

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Attendance Problems

Unread postby MacGregor78 » Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:25 pm

I have a lot of complaints from fans, sportcasters, etc. over the lack of attendance at Indians games for about a month or so now. Last night was the first night I have made it out for a game. Last night will also be the last game I attend this year.

Don't get me wrong, the game itself was great it was everything else that ruined the evening for me. I had to wait for 40 minutes in line to get 2 things of french fries for my wife and her friend. About an inning later I wanted a beer and my wife wanted a pop. Well, after waiting in line again for about 10 minutes, I finally left the line as I hadn't moved an inch. The majority of the concession stands on the upper deck were closed last night in an obvious cost cutting move. A hot dog vendor came to our section once, he was the only vendor who made an appearance. Last night was awful from a service perspective. It is very clear that the Dolan's are finding every way possible to save some money. Last night was the worst porfessional sports experience i have ever had (from a service perspective) and I for one won't be spending my money again on going to a game. Thank you ownership for not caring about your service level to your fans.
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Unread postby Dozen » Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:54 pm

You must also factor in that the people running the consessions are volunteers from respective organizations who keep some of the proceeds from their stands, they are not trained people who do it day in and day out. But I totally agree with you, I have had the same problems the last 2 times down there this season.
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Unread postby MacGregor78 » Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:43 pm

Agreed. I dont expect the concession workers to be trained professionals since they are volunteers. That is why they shouldnt be closing down concession stands. The overhead cant be that much to keep them all open.

Hopefully as the year progresses and the Tribe stays competitive the service issue will be corrected and the stadium will be fun to be at
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Unread postby Birdman » Tue Jul 03, 2007 5:00 pm

Not to make excuses for the Indians management but I doubt they were expecting 34,000 for a Monday night game against the Devil Rays when nobody has been going to the games all year.

That being said, I went to the game on Friday night and experienced the same problems with concession lines. It didn't appear that they had enough vendors and the they had no light beer except at the concession stands. I think that all of the cans for the vendors were gone. This happened around the 4th inning.
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Unread postby tribefan333 » Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:20 pm

Well guess what? Less people going to games=LESS MONEY FOR THE TEAM TO SPEND MONEY.

Yes, Dolan probably has millions that he can spend, and he might on Hafner and CC, but we can give him a couple extra million every year by sucking it up and going to the game. Spend 20 or 40 or 60 or 100 bucks on tickets, buy a couple things, and enjoy Indians baseball.

Dice K is just about paid for because Boston sells out every game. I am just about 100% sure if we sold out every game this year, CC would be easily signed. But no...people complain because it's not perfect even though the Jake is a very nice ballpark, and we only sell about 22-27,000 tickets, when we should be up near 40k. Last night I think it was only 34,000 for a fireworks night....that's not good.

I've only been to 3 games this year and I'll be attending a couple more, at the least.
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Unread postby Birdman » Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:42 pm

I have been to 5 games this year and will attend many more (only that low because of the Cavs playoff run) but the casual fan will not go to the ballpark if the experience is not what it should be. People pay good money to go to a game and the Indians shouldn't try to save money by not having enough concession employees or enough beer in stock. I'm not saying that is what is being done but obviously people experienced these problems.
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Unread postby tribefan333 » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:18 pm

The Cavs and Browns don't have to worry about this--THEY should spend all they can on extras not named players/coaches. Baseball is where everything is tied together.

I don't see why people have to have the time of their lives to go to a baseball game AND to help out the team.
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Unread postby Dozen » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:05 pm

tribefan333 wrote:The Cavs and Browns don't have to worry about this--THEY should spend all they can on extras not named players/coaches. Baseball is where everything is tied together.

I don't see why people have to have the time of their lives to go to a baseball game AND to help out the team.


Look, people work hard for their money and deserve to be able to go to a game, grab some food/beverages without missing part of the game. It's not like a 5-10 minute wait its 30-50 minutes. After working all day I personally dont want to go sit in a line for 2 + innings, but thats just me :mrgreen:
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Unread postby KFletch » Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:09 pm

Yes, while the lines suck at Jacob's Field, they aren't any better at Sox Park or Comerica.

The best place to get concessions is literally Wrigley Field where they come to you.

With that being said, why would they put a bunch of people on when they are only averaging around 18,000 fans per game? It doesn't make business sense to have people just standing around.

Let's hope as the tribe heats up the attendance does to and the service gets better. :-) :smile: :)
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Unread postby drum » Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:17 pm

I come from Columbus so its a real pain in the arse for me but i'll be up there on the 14th. I've been to Comerica more than Jacobs field this year :oops:
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Unread postby KFletch » Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:48 pm

Drum-are you going to be there tomorrow?

We will be representing the Tribe in the bleachers :-)
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Unread postby consigliere » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:13 pm

tribefan333 wrote:Dice K is just about paid for because Boston sells out every game.


Not only that, but their average ticket price is like $42, which is double what the Indians average ticket price is. It takes the Indians 70K in fans, roughy 3 games to equal what the Red Sox get in 35K in fans (one game).
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Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:40 am

tribefan333 wrote:The Cavs and Browns don't have to worry about this--THEY should spend all they can on extras not named players/coaches. Baseball is where everything is tied together.

I don't see why people have to have the time of their lives to go to a baseball game AND to help out the team.


I make it a practice not to spend my money on crappy products. If someone goes to a game and gets bent over, they have every right not to go back. This is just good business. As far as helping out the team, well, again, this is where baseball has it backwards. I don't open a restaraunt and wait for my millionth customer before I serve good food. Serve the good food first, then the crowds will come.

Now its going to be the fans fault that Dolan doesn't spend more?
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Unread postby tribefan333 » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:45 am

It took me and a friend 20 minutes to get 4 hot dogs, 2 nachos, 2 drinks and crossed the stadium. It's the price you pay. Baseball is a sport when going to the game helps the team in the offseason. What you put in is what you put out.

50 minutes? THAT'S Obsurd. I've never had to wait more than 30 but 50 is way too long. If that has happened to you more than once you have a point my sir. I would guess some places would that's just never happened to myself.
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Unread postby lovsgrady » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:47 am

I've never had problems with concessions, just bathrooms, but that is because I'm a girl and there are always lines, but I've never had a problem. Maybe it is just about timing. I went to a thursday game and there were many venders walking around, it was never really a problem, and I was in the upper deck, it just depends on your seats...where were you sitting? Personally, game are always fun for me, I'm sure you weren't waiting that long...I could be wrong, but hey, it's all about the timing. It couldn't have been that bad, but this is coming from an opptomist, who doesn't eat much, so doesn't really get a lot of food, has a small appetite and can wait.

Personally, I think fans should stage a "Walk in" the opposite of what the Pirates did. I the first inning right after the other team gets out, have a large group of people go to their seats for the first time, maybe with believe signs or something, show some support. Ticket sales have gone up a lot, even for Kansas City games...good seats are growing scarce. Teamshops are getting pomeled by ticket sales, you can get tickets at teamshops, just don't get mad at sales people who don't have the exact seats you wanted. AN Indians game is a fun experience, recently just fine for me. I have no reason to complain
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Unread postby StewieG » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:25 am

Actually, I love the "walk in" idea. It would create positive publicity for the team and the city, and stick it to Pittsburgh to boot :twisted:
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Unread postby cozmeesah » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:58 am

Oooo, I LOVE that walk-in idea. That needs to happen. Everybody walks down to their seats in like the 2nd all carrying "WE BELIEVE. TRIBE 2007" signs. That would kick ass, lol.
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Unread postby lovsgrady » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:27 am

thank you, I thought it would be a great idea. now we just need to find a game to do it, and get enough people to hear about it, to do it. This is what the Tribe and Cleveland really need. If anyone has a schedule, I could find a game where we could get food seats, and tell people about it. Maybe like get people from the teamshops to advertise it for the game.
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Unread postby lovsgrady » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:38 am

For this to be even more successful, maybe it shouldn't be openly publizied. ESPN should not know about it until they can report about it after the game has happened. It will be much more surprising and effective, if the team and media don't know. I can just hear Rick Manning, "well I'm being told that they sold a lot of tickets for this game, but where are the fans...They should be here to root on the team, they've got the best home record and they're coming up to bat....oh my, here they come..."while like in the bottom of the first or something, all the fans walk to their seats carrying believe signs, I can just picture it. That would be so cool.
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Unread postby Dozen » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:24 am

tribefan333 wrote:It took me and a friend 20 minutes to get 4 hot dogs, 2 nachos, 2 drinks and crossed the stadium. It's the price you pay. Baseball is a sport when going to the game helps the team in the offseason. What you put in is what you put out.

50 minutes? THAT'S Obsurd. I've never had to wait more than 30 but 50 is way too long. If that has happened to you more than once you have a point my sir. I would guess some places would that's just never happened to myself.


Yeah, it happened on the Sunday game against the reds. It gets better though...., I went to the line about 10 min before the 1st pitch by the time I got to the front the told me they were out of hot dog buns already :evil: !, so I had to wait even longer. When I got back to my seat it was the bottom of the 3rd. :x :mad: :-x
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Unread postby lovsgrady » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:49 pm

I'm sure it didn't take that long. it just felt like 30 of 50 minutes. Couldn't you tell if the line was too long that it would take that long. Maybe they had to make more food or something. If it was taking that long, you should have just left the line, and checked back later. From what i hear, it sounds like you are just exaggerating. If you choose to wait in line that long it is your fault so you shouldn't be complaining.

The Jake has good service every time I have been there.

Does anyone else think a "Walk in" would be a good idea. Showing loyalty like that might make the service even better. :roll :roll:
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Unread postby Dozen » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:57 pm

lovsgrady wrote:I'm sure it didn't take that long. it just felt like 30 of 50 minutes. Couldn't you tell if the line was too long that it would take that long. Maybe they had to make more food or something. If it was taking that long, you should have just left the line, and checked back later. From what i hear, it sounds like you are just exaggerating. If you choose to wait in line that long it is your fault so you shouldn't be complaining.

The Jake has good service every time I have been there.

Does anyone else think a "Walk in" would be a good idea. Showing loyalty like that might make the service even better. :roll :roll:


Listen, I have a god damn watch, it did take that long. Everyother stand was EXACTLY the same. And I wasnt leaving no line when my kids were waiting for some food. And how in gods holy hell do you run out of food in the 1st inning? We had bad service that day point blank period. Im not EXAGGERATING! Obviously I am not the only one who has experienced these problems, but I guess you will have an answer for all of us who have :roll :roll:


Oh, and I love taking the family to the Jake, so why in the hell would I be complaining if it wasnt true?
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Unread postby lovsgrady » Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:03 pm

okay, I'm sorry that you had bad service. It just seemed sort of unlikely to me, but I guess it could happen. I apologize. what game did you go to?
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Unread postby lovsgrady » Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:08 pm

I guess, what seems unlikely to me is that all the stands would be that busy in the first inning. How long does it take to get a hot dog and stuff. I don't mean to be rude, but if you waited that long in line because there were too many people or whatever, they probably could run out of food. :? :-? :???: so I'm just kind of confused by what you are saying. If you kids could wait the 50 minutes you were in line, why couldn't you have told them to wait until the line settled down? I understand that kids can be loud complainers, and they want things now. It just sorta doesn't make sense to me. Like i said... :? :-? :???: I'm confused
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Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:10 pm

My wife and I went Saturday night againt the 'Rays. My wait before the game was 15 minutes for two beers.

Her wait for her coke and a nacho for me was 2 innings, 35 minutes. She missed the Hafner HR and reminded me of it with every bite I took.

The waits were/are that long. And those working the stands are prisoners of the register. The girl had to look three times when I gave her a $20 for an $11.50 purchase. She was also extremely rude and all of that change went back in the pocket because she and the experience weren't worth the $.50 much less any paper.

Dozen and Lead are right. There's a right way and a wrong way to run the operation. The next time they do it the right way down there will be the first time I've seen it this season. It's not enough to keep me from going down there with my wife or the oldest, but I'll be bringing a Panini sandwich in and scouting out idiot-free concessions.
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Unread postby tribetalk » Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:22 pm

The concession thing is pretty darn easy to understand: 16,000 DAMN PEOPLE WALKED UP MONDAY NIGHT, THE LARGEST EVER!

You NEVER Expect that, and the Indians didn't, Had they predicted 34,000 at the game, they would've opened those concessions up for people.
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Unread postby Dozen » Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:25 pm

lovsgrady wrote:I guess, what seems unlikely to me is that all the stands would be that busy in the first inning. How long does it take to get a hot dog and stuff. I don't mean to be rude, but if you waited that long in line because there were too many people or whatever, they probably could run out of food. :? :-? :???: so I'm just kind of confused by what you are saying. If you kids could wait the 50 minutes you were in line, why couldn't you have told them to wait until the line settled down? I understand that kids can be loud complainers, and they want things now. It just sorta doesn't make sense to me. Like i said... :? :-? :???: I'm confused


A. Because it was still the fastest way to get any food

B. The line kept growing behind me

The kids had to wait because it took me that long, they were not happy about it. If I would have left the line I would have had to wait even longer. It was absolutley painful.
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Unread postby Dozen » Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:27 pm

tribetalk wrote:The concession thing is pretty darn easy to understand: 16,000 DAMN PEOPLE WALKED UP MONDAY NIGHT, THE LARGEST EVER!

You NEVER Expect that, and the Indians didn't, Had they predicted 34,000 at the game, they would've opened those concessions up for people.


It happened to me on a Sunday afternoon against the Reds in May. This is a re-occurring problem down there. On a side-note, Im still happy this is my only real beef with the team thus far. :mrgreen:
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Unread postby Dozen » Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:30 pm

Peeker643 wrote:My wife and I went Saturday night againt the 'Rays. My wait before the game was 15 minutes for two beers.

Her wait for her coke and a nacho for me was 2 innings, 35 minutes. She missed the Hafner HR and reminded me of it with every bite I took.

The waits were/are that long. And those working the stands are prisoners of the register. The girl had to look three times when I gave her a $20 for an $11.50 purchase. She was also extremely rude and all of that change went back in the pocket because she and the experience weren't worth the $.50 much less any paper.

Dozen and Lead are right. There's a right way and a wrong way to run the operation. The next time they do it the right way down there will be the first time I've seen it this season. It's not enough to keep me from going down there with my wife or the oldest, but I'll be bringing a Panini sandwich in and scouting out idiot-free concessions.


Peeker, How dare you to expect to get some beer/nachos at a baseball game within a reasonable amount of time? Then expect a little curtiousy, who do you think you are the pope? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Unread postby lovsgrady » Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:50 pm

where were your seats Dozen, and so that maybe I understand you better, what was the register person waiting on you doing that took so long, was it food, problems with the register, laziness, problems with money what, because if there is a problem with the person, you should ask for a manager, which might take longer, but tell them so that way they can get rid of the lazy salesman, and get some good sales people out there, they might not know that there is a problem.
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Unread postby tribefan333 » Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:56 pm

What I usually do is get to the Jake about 30 minutes before the opening pitch and get a meal then (2 hotdogs, nachos, drink) then go and get small stuff at the top of innings while the other team is batting.

Dozen you may just be really unlucky...If both of us are ever at a game I'll get there early and get ya couple of dogs :-) :smile: :)
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Unread postby Dozen » Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:59 pm

lovsgrady wrote:where were your seats Dozen, and so that maybe I understand you better, what was the register person waiting on you doing that took so long, was it food, problems with the register, laziness, problems with money what, because if there is a problem with the person, you should ask for a manager, which might take longer, but tell them so that way they can get rid of the lazy salesman, and get some good sales people out there, they might not know that there is a problem.
This was our league outing so we were in the nosebleeds. It was the whole stand not just 1 person. My point is they let volunteers do it to raise money for their organizations so there is no point in asking for a manager. I like the fact they let volunteers do it but they should mix in a few regulars to keep the pace moving. It was before the game and all the workers were running around looking where everything was as the orders came in. Almost like they were just winging it for a day and then they got hammered with people.
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Unread postby lovsgrady » Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:04 pm

Okay, well if they were volunteers, they probably didn't know where other things were, and just weren't expected to be hammered, so they were just trying to get everything ready and they got hammered, that can happen, no one knows the circumstances with them so it could take a long time. I just don't find nachos or beers worth waiting 50 minutes and missing the game...I'm sorry...
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Unread postby Dozen » Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:09 pm

lovsgrady wrote:Okay, well if they were volunteers, they probably didn't know where other things were, and just weren't expected to be hammered, so they were just trying to get everything ready and they got hammered, that can happen, no one knows the circumstances with them so it could take a long time. I just don't find nachos or beers worth waiting 50 minutes and missing the game...I'm sorry...


You're talking about 2 of my basic 4 food groups there :lol: .I dont think anyone heads to the stand expecting to wait that long. But on the otherhand is it more worth it to wait an inning and decide to jump out of line and head back to your seats? It's a legit complaint and something they can improve on. They are wondering why no one shows and when they do this is what you have deal with? It needs to be corrected. :-) :smile: :)
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Unread postby MacGregor78 » Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:54 am

wow...this thread has really grown. On Monday night, the lines were consistently long the whole night. it was terrible.

the volunteer thing is the main reason i dont understand why more concession stands arent open. the vendors are not being paid, they are just getting a portion of the total sales. the overhead on a concession stand can not be that large that a huge financial loss would incur if one was kept open with poor attendance. Whether Dolan realizes it or not, he just lost a lot of potential fans on Monday night because he was trying to save some money.
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Unread postby swerb » Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:41 am

I know it's not always feasible, especially for those bringing kids (a wolrd Im about to enter) but I rarely ever eat at The Jake.

But man, if you can get downtown by 5:30-6:00 PM ... you can get a corned beef or yellowfin tuna sammich as big as your head, and 2-3 30 ounce Great Lakes brews on draft (and in a glass iced mug vs plastic) for $25 at Flannery's right by The Jake.

Or a bison burger and a couple Guinness at Harry Buffalo.
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Unread postby paulcousineau » Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:57 am

I know it's not always feasible, especially for those bringing kids (a wolrd Im about to enter) but I rarely ever eat at The Jake.


Right there with you.
When we do eat at the Jake, we hit the Market Pavilion near the Batter's Eye Bar, which has a huge selection of food and picnic tables.

Get there about 20-30 minutes before first pitch and you're finished eating and in your seats by the beginning of the game.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:15 pm

MacGregor78 wrote:wow...this thread has really grown. On Monday night, the lines were consistently long the whole night. it was terrible.

the volunteer thing is the main reason i dont understand why more concession stands arent open. the vendors are not being paid, they are just getting a portion of the total sales. the overhead on a concession stand can not be that large that a huge financial loss would incur if one was kept open with poor attendance. Whether Dolan realizes it or not, he just lost a lot of potential fans on Monday night because he was trying to save some money.


My area of expertise since I ran these things at the Trop for the D-Rays. The overhead is substantial. You have to pay for the labor, the cleanup, and the extra utilities utilized for each sales point. It adds up quickly.

Chances are much of it has to do with the unexpected large crowd. They likely were understaffed and have been understaffed all season. When fans don't show early on the team will make plans for a lower attendance level and cut the staff.

There's also the possibility that the unexpected large crowd following a weekend of larger crowds saw a shortage of supply so running more stations would guarantee you'd run out of food.

When you run this stuff you have to be careful about how much stuff you get because everything you throw out is loss. Vendors put the cash up front and having to dispose of a large % of product leads to money loss. The margins are good for the Indians but not as good for the vendors. You have to balance wages with food cost. Depending on the agreement there is likely a utilities fee from the franchise.

Don't throw it on Dolan. Chances are the vendors made the decision because they could not adapt to the fans suddenly deciding that they wanted to see the team. Consistently good crowds will change that, but if they ever prepare for a large crowd and don't get one then they'll cut again.

Honestly, I put this all on the fans who can't support a good baseball team consistently.
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Unread postby StewieG » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:22 pm

The way scheduling works for that is the head of the ballpark vending crew looks at the expected attendance (since where was 8K walkup, they probably expected around 24 or 26K) and then decides which stands will be open. If he decides to open all of them, it's up to the individual stand managers to schedule how many employees will be at each stand. The volunteer thing didn't help, certainly, either...but based on advanced sales, they expected smaller crowds. So because even with predicting a large walk-up crowd of 2000, they had 6000 MORE people in the park than expected, and I'm sure most of those 6000 people wanted concessions. That's where the long lines come in to play. There's no way to predict a walk-up crowd of 8000. I'm not trying to make excuses for the team, but it would seem they were caught totally off-guard.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:05 pm

Wasn't that the largest walk-up crowd in the history of the Jake?

If so then it is a good sign that people showed up with the lowly D-Rays in town.
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Unread postby Dozen » Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:25 pm

The game I went to was in May and people have been experiencing these problems all year.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:42 pm

Dozen wrote:The game I went to was in May and people have been experiencing these problems all year.


Probably due to the inconsistency in the crowds. I've looked at Tribe attendance as someone who has been a major vendor at a ballpark and can tell you that it'd be a nightmare to manage because the numbers bounce around so much. The D-Rays at least are consistent and predictable.

A cursory glance at raw attendance figures leads me to believe that the Jake would be the toughest venue to manage.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:24 pm

Mr. MacPhisto wrote:
MacGregor78 wrote:wow...this thread has really grown. On Monday night, the lines were consistently long the whole night. it was terrible.

the volunteer thing is the main reason i dont understand why more concession stands arent open. the vendors are not being paid, they are just getting a portion of the total sales. the overhead on a concession stand can not be that large that a huge financial loss would incur if one was kept open with poor attendance. Whether Dolan realizes it or not, he just lost a lot of potential fans on Monday night because he was trying to save some money.


My area of expertise since I ran these things at the Trop for the D-Rays. The overhead is substantial. You have to pay for the labor, the cleanup, and the extra utilities utilized for each sales point. It adds up quickly.

Chances are much of it has to do with the unexpected large crowd. They likely were understaffed and have been understaffed all season. When fans don't show early on the team will make plans for a lower attendance level and cut the staff.

There's also the possibility that the unexpected large crowd following a weekend of larger crowds saw a shortage of supply so running more stations would guarantee you'd run out of food.

When you run this stuff you have to be careful about how much stuff you get because everything you throw out is loss. Vendors put the cash up front and having to dispose of a large % of product leads to money loss. The margins are good for the Indians but not as good for the vendors. You have to balance wages with food cost. Depending on the agreement there is likely a utilities fee from the franchise.

Don't throw it on Dolan. Chances are the vendors made the decision because they could not adapt to the fans suddenly deciding that they wanted to see the team. Consistently good crowds will change that, but if they ever prepare for a large crowd and don't get one then they'll cut again.

Honestly, I put this all on the fans who can't support a good baseball team consistently.


NONSENSE.

This is no different than a zillion customer service based businesses. The poor ones staff for a small crowd and are alarmed and ineffective by the larger. The good ones are staffed to handle whatever comes there way.

There are a million former bar/restaraunt owners in this city that staffed their joints the first way, that's why they are former.

As many have stated, it wasn't the flash crowd, this stuff has been going on pretty consistently, and they need to mix some people that know what the hell is going on with the people representing the charites. THAT is the inherent problem down there.

Again, blaming the fans is ridiculous.

Dozen, shame on you. How in the world, after a hard day of work, do you get off expecting to get a dog in a timely manner? This is on you. That dog cost the Tribe 5 cents, and you 4 bucks, with that profit margin you can't expect the place to be staffed well enough to get it to you in a timely fashion.

A Multi-million dollar operation, and, a facet of that operation in which the profit margin is laughable..... somesody is making 6 figures to get that job done right. It ain't on Dozen, Lead Pipe or Mr. Mac - it's on him.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:42 pm

Lead Pipe wrote:NONSENSE.

This is no different than a zillion customer service based businesses. The poor ones staff for a small crowd and are alarmed and ineffective by the larger. The good ones are staffed to handle whatever comes there way.

There are a million former bar/restaraunt owners in this city that staffed their joints the first way, that's why they are former.

As many have stated, it wasn't the flash crowd, this stuff has been going on pretty consistently, and they need to mix some people that know what the hell is going on with the people representing the charites. THAT is the inherent problem down there.

Again, blaming the fans is ridiculous.

Dozen, shame on you. How in the world, after a hard day of work, do you get off expecting to get a dog in a timely manner? This is on you. That dog cost the Tribe 5 cents, and you 4 bucks, with that profit margin you can't expect the place to be staffed well enough to get it to you in a timely fashion.

A Multi-million dollar operation, and, a facet of that operation in which the profit margin is laughable..... somesody is making 6 figures to get that job done right. It ain't on Dozen, Lead Pipe or Mr. Mac - it's on him.


For one, hot dogs don't cost a nickel. They now cost in the quarter range for a reseller depending on the brand. You also have to toss labor into each food sale.

If it's a consistent problem then there is a problem. However, everything in food service is done on projections and, even with MLB vendors, the profit margin is slim. Most of the money made goes to the ballclub leaving the vendor with a 10-15% profit after everything. That's good for the industry but also one reason why when number fluctuate like crazy it's difficult to properly staff and run a stand. The Tribe attendance has fluctuated and I have no idea what the demand at concessions is because that impacts staffing.

Good restaurants always staff on projections, not optimism that things will go well. They also have the luxury of paying waiters dirt cheap salaries due to tips. That doesn't happen at concessions.
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Unread postby MacGregor78 » Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:48 pm

well, if the people at the concession stand were getting paid a penny an hour the Indians were getting ripped off. The workers could care less what was happening. They thought it was funny when I had to wait an extra 30 seconds once I had made it to the window because they only remembered to get me one order of fries instead of 2.

At least the workers were enjoying themselves because the fans sure were ticked.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:36 pm

Mr. MacPhisto wrote:
Lead Pipe wrote:NONSENSE.

This is no different than a zillion customer service based businesses. The poor ones staff for a small crowd and are alarmed and ineffective by the larger. The good ones are staffed to handle whatever comes there way.

There are a million former bar/restaraunt owners in this city that staffed their joints the first way, that's why they are former.

As many have stated, it wasn't the flash crowd, this stuff has been going on pretty consistently, and they need to mix some people that know what the hell is going on with the people representing the charites. THAT is the inherent problem down there.

Again, blaming the fans is ridiculous.

Dozen, shame on you. How in the world, after a hard day of work, do you get off expecting to get a dog in a timely manner? This is on you. That dog cost the Tribe 5 cents, and you 4 bucks, with that profit margin you can't expect the place to be staffed well enough to get it to you in a timely fashion.

A Multi-million dollar operation, and, a facet of that operation in which the profit margin is laughable..... somesody is making 6 figures to get that job done right. It ain't on Dozen, Lead Pipe or Mr. Mac - it's on him.


For one, hot dogs don't cost a nickel. They now cost in the quarter range for a reseller depending on the brand. You also have to toss labor into each food sale.

If it's a consistent problem then there is a problem. However, everything in food service is done on projections and, even with MLB vendors, the profit margin is slim. Most of the money made goes to the ballclub leaving the vendor with a 10-15% profit after everything. That's good for the industry but also one reason why when number fluctuate like crazy it's difficult to properly staff and run a stand. The Tribe attendance has fluctuated and I have no idea what the demand at concessions is because that impacts staffing.

Good restaurants always staff on projections, not optimism that things will go well. They also have the luxury of paying waiters dirt cheap salaries due to tips. That doesn't happen at concessions.


Wow. A quarter. I was way off. They should charge 6 bucks a dog. Maybe I got it confused with the nickels worth of soda in a large fountain drink that cost you 4 bucks.....

Look, lack of good service is NOT on the fans. Especially not ALL on the fans as you stated. People are paying their hard earned money to watch millionaires, who make as much per diem money in a week as many sitting in the stands at their real job. It's operated by mega millionaires whom refuse to open their books. If they end up being a little over-staffed at times, well, tough shit. Find away, with all the money your paying in resources, to get a damned hot dog to a guy in under two innings.

I guarantee you other people are doing it right. And if you can't figure it out, it's your own fault, not your customers.
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Unread postby Dozen » Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:49 pm

No pipes, its the fans fault for not coming to an unproven playoff team and then supporting them when they like the product. Its the fans fault they sold to many hotdogs on a friday and then were out on sunday. It's the fans fault they dont blow off work early to get to a surrounding est. before the game starts. Its all the fans fault. :roll :roll:
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:57 pm

Lead Pipe wrote:Wow. A quarter. I was way off. They should charge 6 bucks a dog. Maybe I got it confused with the nickels worth of soda in a large fountain drink that cost you 4 bucks.....

Look, lack of good service is NOT on the fans. Especially not ALL on the fans as you stated. People are paying their hard earned money to watch millionaires, who make as much per diem money in a week as many sitting in the stands at their real job. It's operated by mega millionaires whom refuse to open their books. If they end up being a little over-staffed at times, well, tough shit. Find away, with all the money your paying in resources, to get a damned hot dog to a guy in under two innings.

I guarantee you other people are doing it right. And if you can't figure it out, it's your own fault, not your customers.


You do have to figure it out but the dynamics work much differently in sports concessions. I don't know how the Indians are structured, but the D-Rays had it done autonomously with little input from ownership. If there were tons of complaints about service then they'd want you to do something, but it has a lot to do with the money coming in.

So, you're right, it's not entirely on the fans. But I'm telling you that it's not easy as a vendor when attendance is in flux. If you actually want to make a profit then you have to be careful about your staffing and, depending on the situation, your utilities. I'm pretty sure the Dolans operate it like everyone else in this sense. The contracts are fair and can be profitable but you have to run things efficiently.

There are other factors. Is there are shortage of people able to work? What's the hourly wage of each employee and how does an hour impact the overall labor cost. Generally it needs to be held UNDER 15% of your total take and it's optimal to only pay out 10% as opposed to 25% in conventional restaurant settings that don't have the markup.

A stable attendance that is predictable would make it easier. If the vendors ever overstaffed and lost money one night then they'd probably never do it again.
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Unread postby jfiling » Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:31 pm

Mr. MacPhisto wrote:A stable attendance that is predictable would make it easier. If the vendors ever overstaffed and lost money one night then they'd probably never do it again.


Having worked in management in fast food, I can attest to this. We knew in advance how much food to have in our freezers, how many employees to have working, based on events. There were times when we were caught short-handed, or short supplied, due to unexpected demand, and it took Herculean efforts to compensate. I suppose that if Jacobs Field had larger storage facilities (freezers/coolers) and standby staff (maybe give them free tickets to the game with the understanding that they could be called into duty to work if needed) that could help solve the problem.

Now that I think about it, maybe I did just solve the problem, and all it costs is a little bit of space and a few free tickets. Wake up Dolan, you cheap $#%@.
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