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Hafner signing extension soon

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Hafner signing extension soon

Unread postby captain_wahoo » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:14 am

Mike Trivissano is reporting that Hafner will be signing an extension very soon to last through 2012. He says the hold up was working out a limited trade clause. Since he is on the Indian's flagship radio station and regularly talks with players and management, I doubt he would just make crap up, but let's keep our ears open and fingers crossed.
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Unread postby Tribefan24 » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:33 am

if this is the case... does this mean we can say bye bye to CC ? I hope not

we NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED CC SABATHIA !



i hope we can get Pronk locked up



LETS GO TRIBE !
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Unread postby Babrook » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:43 am

This is great news if it is true, I don't listen to Triv anymore (I got an iPod for the car =P) so I didn't hear about it, but having Pronk until 2012 would be great.

And I am SURE that the Tribe wouldn't resign Pronk if they weren't sure they could also resign C.C. They're not that dumb.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:46 am

I'd love to lock up CC but it's not likely. If the Tribe does then nobody can call Dolan a cheapskate anymore, especially if he does it while locking up Hafner at the same time.

An extension for Hafner is good news and might help get the fans more committed to this team. The D-Rays radio announcers tonight weren't getting the lack of support for a team this good and this fun to watch. They did compliment the fans for showing up against the D-Rays but noted how much of a struggle it's been to pack the Jake. Their theory was that the fans still haven't forgiven ownership for letting Belle, Manny, and Thome leave. Essentially they were saying that the fans were having trouble getting over the team from the 90s.
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Unread postby Babrook » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:49 am

Mr. MacPhisto wrote:Essentially they were saying that the fans were having trouble getting over the team from the 90s.


My mom doesn't pay attention to the Indians anymore because she misses Thome and Vizquel, so that's not that far off. But Belle? He was a good player but he was a real jackass.

I think Dolan realizes that C.C could be the best young southpaw in the game, and that he is our franchise player. C.C also seems to like it here, and while I am sure that he would rather play closer to his home, I am confident that we will find a way to keep him here, even if it includes selling Lake Erie's kidney.
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Unread postby tribetalk » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:15 am

I listen to Triv out here in Youngstown, whether it be in my car or on the internet. What I heard was the latter of his statement, but I found this:

Decision should be made within 3 days or so.
Deal through 2012
Make $11-14 million per year
Additional Money for All Star Game, Playoffs, Championship, etc.

Something of that nature, Triv wouldn't put this out on the air if it was bogus!
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Unread postby ArtGold » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:21 am

Though I would prefer Sabathia I will take whoever we can sign. I hope this is true and Hafner is signed for a few additional years. His presence, assuming he reverts to historical norm, helps take a lot of pressure off of the pitching.

Fan base may start to build if they believe these "stars" like Hafner are going to be around for awhile.
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Unread postby captain_wahoo » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:33 am

He also said that all money they make if they get into the post season and the World Series is earmarked for keeping Sabathia. Also said money isn't the problem for CC it is going to be number of years. 4 years would be ideal, 5 would be pushing it, but if he wants 7 years like Zito got, I just don't see the Tribe taking that monster of a risk.
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Unread postby Crash Davis » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:35 am

Consig do you have any inside info on this? I would love for this to be considered a done deal. Triv used to be a reliable source in this town but has missed on a few in recent years.
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Unread postby BadBecks » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:32 am

All I know is I saw C.C. at the very top of a list on ESPN showing the pitchers who have a legit shot at 300-350 wins. He's got something like 94 as a 26 year old. Almost 30 more than Jake Peavy who is the same age.

I'll accept a raise in tix to keep him.
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Unread postby pod2dawg » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:00 pm

Signing Hafner is a good sign as we have locked up the "core" for awhile now, outside of Blake. As this season approached I gave us 0% of us signing C.C. Gentleman, as I step away from 43yrs of pessimism.....I note the Tribe's success, C.C.'s success....I actually believe Shapiro is going to make an honest attempt to sign the Big Fella...as long as we ^ attendance...........I & the 7yr. old stadium food vacuum are eagerly planning for the Tribe's return home.
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Unread postby Babrook » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:17 pm

I would not mind spending an extra 10 dollars a ticket if it meant keeping the best young pitcher in the game.
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Unread postby furls » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:26 pm

Would be nice if it were that simple but it is not. Dolan will probably have to put up ~120 million over 6 to get the deal done. That is about 1/3 of the current value of the entire team.

I think that would send a very strong message to the fans, but at the same time, it is a big expense and a long commitment. I can't fault the team for taking the risk, and I can't fault the team for shying away from it either.
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Unread postby Eckersley » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:13 pm

Pronk is my favorite player, but CC is much more valuable to this team.

Shapiro & Dolan have to realize this & should make CC their 1st & foremost priority.

If the Pronk rumors are true, this tells me that Shapiro & Dolan approached CC 1st & were turned down, so they are now turning to Pronk.

CC is not long in a Tribe uniform. He will be traded or go the FA route & with the $ given out to guys like Gil Meche & Barry Zito, who can blame him?

I don't blame CC or Dolan. I blame the broken system that MLB has set into place. Had MLB increased rev. sharing during the last CBA, teams like the Tribe would have a better chance at keeping their players. Look for the Bankees to sign CC, Santana or both before the 2009 season.

It sucks, but that's the system that MLB has given us.
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Unread postby MadThinker88 » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:21 pm

I've got a suspicion that unless CC is dealt, he would depart via free agency to a NL team out West.

I think CC likes the idea of hitting on a regualr basis and he would accept a few less dollars from a NL team then try for every last dollar from the Yanks/ Red Sox/ Toronto or Baltimore.
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Unread postby Babrook » Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:11 pm

[quote="Eckersley"]

Shapiro & Dolan have to realize this & should make CC their 1st & foremost priority.
/quote]

And I think they do. They have the money to resign him, I think it's more of are they willing to spend it.

If this deal is true, it's good news on multiple tiers. It means we have Pronk, and it means they are finally willing to spend some cash.
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Unread postby tribefan333 » Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:38 pm

I'd rather have CC, but if we can lock up one of them that would be Fantastic (capital F) news.

Besides, I now have a total of 6 cups from the Jake with CC and Hafner on them, so if one of them leaves I will be down 3 cups!!! Must resign them now!
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Unread postby consigliere » Tue Jul 03, 2007 5:20 pm

From what I know, Triv is getting this directly from Shapiro.

This is good news, even if CC is more important.

We all thought Hafner, CC and Westbrook would never be resigned. We just resigned two of them, and for over $10M per a year.....two things we all thought would never happen.

I'm happy to have Hafner and Jake in the fold....and I'll take my chances with CC after the season and see what happens.
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Unread postby tribefan333 » Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:11 pm

THIS JUST IN!!!!!!

Waiting a long time for something huge and uncertain like this sucks!
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Unread postby Babrook » Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:52 pm

Has anyone heard this other then captain_wahoo?
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Unread postby tribefan333 » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:07 pm

I'm talking to a friend who also heard it from triv earler, so he did announce it if thats' what you're asking.
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Unread postby Babrook » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:11 pm

tribefan333 wrote:I'm talking to a friend who also heard it from triv earler, so he did announce it if thats' what you're asking.


I'm not accusing wahoo or anything, but I just remembered that this is the internet and people can pull your leg VERY easily.
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Unread postby tribefan333 » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:17 pm

That's true, so take it as you like. I've known him for almost a year (just through boards) but all his stuff is about Pronk, so I doubt he'd fool around with something good like this.
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Unread postby drum » Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:15 pm

I don't know if all this is confirmed, but if you told me they'd sign 2 out of 3 between Westbrook, CC, and Pronk I would have bet my life savings on that not happening.
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Unread postby Babrook » Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:58 pm

This my stance on C.C-

I am blindly optimistic, and I'm kinda stupid, with that mix up in my head, I think we sign C.C. Shapiro and Dolan realize that they possibly have a Roger Clemens caliber, possibly future Hall of Famer. Do we WANT him? Hell yes. Will C.C make our lives easier? Very yes. But will the lack of C.C break the team, do we really NEED him? No, we don't. We have numerous other lefties in the minors, and while none of them are near as good as the big lefty, they could fill the rotation pretty well. Laffey, Miller, Lofgen (He's a lefty, right?) could take his place. Big shoes to fill, and they won't.

So, while I am confident we will resign him in my storm of optimism, without him, the team wouldn't be dead. I'm just worried that he would go to the likes of the Tigers of the Angels. If he's in the NL, well, I've been looking for an NL team to follow for a long time since Pittsburgh can't hold my attention.

This post is really just a rehash of my other 10 posts on the subject :p.
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Unread postby TribeinLA » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:12 pm

All I can say is that if we sign Hafner and it makes CC leave town, then we are stupid. Very stupid. Hafner is a DH who plays about ten games a year at first base. Did I also mention he sucks now? 51 rbi, sure, but when you have Grady, Casey, and Victor in front of you, it's not so much as you driving in runs...it's that the table is usually set for you.
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Unread postby consigliere » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:21 pm

Wow. The fans will never be happy.

Back in spring training, if someone were to tell the fans we would sign two of the pending three free agents in Sabathia, Westbrook and Hafner.....and that the two would be Hafner and Westbrook, people would fall over dead in disbelief and happiness. No one gave the Indians a shot to sign one of them.....now they may sign two of them.....but because CC is still not locked up the Indians are stupid.

Unreal.

Look, I agree Sabathia is the guy you want the most.....but he is also the hardest to resign because right now he wants to test the market. Hafner is an easier sign because his market is established, so if you can sign him, freaking do it. Let's worry about Sabathia 16 months from now. Everyone is worried about him leaving, but for God's sake he is here for another full year! Enjoy the guy, and worry about the contract sitation later.
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Unread postby noles1 » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:33 pm

^^^^Perfectly stated.

Agree 100%.

I won't jinx it but if we make the playoffs I think percentages to retain C.C. go up from below 25% to an actual chance. Still we have 1 1/2 years left and let's enjoy the ride!
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Unread postby TribeinLA » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:39 pm

That was then. This is now. Hafner looks nowhere close to true form. Nowhere near it. He is borderline looking bad.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:46 pm

Consigliere wrote:Wow. The fans will never be happy.

Back in spring training, if someone were to tell the fans we would sign two of the pending three free agents in Sabathia, Westbrook and Hafner.....and that the two would be Hafner and Westbrook, people would fall over dead in disbelief and happiness. No one gave the Indians a shot to sign one of them.....now they may sign two of them.....but because CC is still not locked up the Indians are stupid.

Unreal.


Tony, I agree some fans will not be happy even if we sign Sabathia. My view is that just signing Westbrook and this reported Hafner extension puts a severe dent in the whole "Dolan's cheap" idea. I'm thrilled they're trying to lock up some core players.

Look, I agree Sabathia is the guy you want the most.....but he is also the hardest to resign because right now he wants to test the market. Hafner is an easier sign because his market is established, so if you can sign him, freaking do it. Let's worry about Sabathia 16 months from now. Everyone is worried about him leaving, but for God's sake he is here for another full year! Enjoy the guy, and worry about the contract sitation later.


I'd still try at a contract extension in the offseason. He may demand a lot of money, but the market will be very crowded when he hits free agency. There are several good, young pitchers becoming available. Santana, Sheets, Lackey instantly spring to mind. CC won't be the premier pitcher on the market in all likelihood.

I'm not sure I want to wait it out and just get draft compensation. I'd rather at least see what we can get for him if we're sure we can't re-sign him.
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Unread postby consigliere » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:01 pm

Mac, the Indians most certainly will explore contract contract extension talks with CC in the offseason. They tabled the talks until this offseason when the market is better known....and I think they will carry the talks through spring training. Not sure what will happen, but I'll start to worry if he hasn't signed come this time next year.
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Unread postby tribefan333 » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:37 am

We don't need CC?????

What sounds better?

CC, Carmona, Lee, Westbrook, Byrd
Carmona, Lee, Westbrook, Byrd, Miller

I'm not satisfied with Sowers who is struggling big time in AAA and MLB, and even though Laffey is pitching a whirlwind they are similar pitchers in their own respect.

Sabathia is our premier lefty ACE, and is running for the Cy Young.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:42 am

When Triv was talking about Hafner, did he have his fat mouth filled with food again, because that could cause a misunderstanding.
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Unread postby Babrook » Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:10 am

tribefan333 wrote:We don't need CC?????

What sounds better?

CC, Carmona, Lee, Westbrook, Byrd
Carmona, Lee, Westbrook, Byrd, Miller

I'm not satisfied with Sowers who is struggling big time in AAA and MLB, and even though Laffey is pitching a whirlwind they are similar pitchers in their own respect.

Sabathia is our premier lefty ACE, and is running for the Cy Young.



CC, Carmona, Westbook, Lee, Byrd.

But we don't need him. The team would not fall apart without him. Some teams would fall apart without some players, Cin with Griffey, SF with Bonds. We certainly wouldn't be as good, but we would still be contenders.
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Unread postby tribefan333 » Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:53 pm

Losing a possible 20 game winner and a Cy Young contender would be a horrific blow to this team. I don't see us contending with Boston or NYM with Carmona is our ace.
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Unread postby furls » Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:42 pm

I didnt see us contending with CC as our ace a couple of years ago. It is just hard to see what is going to come.

Personally, I think if Carmona's mental game gets there he could be every bit as dominating, maybe even moreso than Sabathia. His stuff is just wicked. There is no one in MLB with his stuff at 94 MPH. The movement on that fastball and sinker is ridiculous. It is just a matter of how maturing affects his head. Will he become a steel nerved veteran or will he continue to crumble? Time will tell, but I think for the most part we have seen more of the former than the latter, which is a good sign.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:58 pm

tribefan333 wrote:We don't need CC?????

What sounds better?

CC, Carmona, Lee, Westbrook, Byrd
Carmona, Lee, Westbrook, Byrd, Miller

I'm not satisfied with Sowers who is struggling big time in AAA and MLB, and even though Laffey is pitching a whirlwind they are similar pitchers in their own respect.

Sabathia is our premier lefty ACE, and is running for the Cy Young.


You're looking through the prism of the present. Yes, I wouldn't want to ditch CC now but Lofgren should be ready by the end of CC's contract and there's other depth in the org.

We don't need CC. He's important and it'd be best to keep him, but we don't need him. I think the pitching staff can be good without him. I also agree with Furls about Carmona - he may be able to be better than CC.
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Unread postby tribefan333 » Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:07 pm

What I was meaning was there's no way we can let him go without getting something in return. Just losing him would be set us back quite a bit.

Do we need him? No. Do we need his talent or someone of his talent here in return? Yes.
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Unread postby furls » Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:18 pm

Do we need him? No. Do we need his talent or someone of his talent here in return? Yes.


So here is my question for you:

This year the Indians make a good run in the playoffs and they are contending next July, do you trade him to "get something in return" knowing that you are probably not going to sign him because Boston, NYY, LA etc, are?

We are not going to get even return for him in trade. Ever. I think the Indians should make a run at signing him but not if they aren't comfortable with the length of the contract. I think that will be the stumbling point. CC is going to want 7 or 8 years. Looking at it objectively, CC gets a bit fatter every year and throws hard for a lot of innings. His mechanics are pretty sound, but still, trying to picture CC at the back end of that deal (in his mid 30s) could be frightening.

Just losing him would be set us back quite a bit.


Losing an Ace sucks, but I am not sure how far back it would really set the Indians. They would not be as good, sure, that is common sense, but with the projected emergence of Lofgren and Miller, Carmona, Westbrook, and Lee the Indians would be far from a bad staff.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:42 pm

I agree. I'd want to get something, but I'd shop him before next season if we're unable to come up with an extension because I'd not want to trade him if we're in the middle of a pennant run. It'd be best to see what we can get and, if it's enough, trade him and move on earlier rather than later.
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Unread postby Babrook » Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:01 pm

Furls wrote:
Do we need him? No. Do we need his talent or someone of his talent here in return? Yes.


So here is my question for you:

This year the Indians make a good run in the playoffs and they are contending next July, do you trade him to "get something in return" knowing that you are probably not going to sign him because Boston, NYY, LA etc, are?



It really depends on what is on the market and if we are sure he doesn't want to resign. Also, I doubt Carmona would be our ace. I think Westbrook would be, actually.

But really, you can't tell what Carmona is going to be. He's once pace to be an 18 game winner this year, and with a sinker that basically pisses on hitter's faces and the velocity he has, he could seriously contend for an ace.

I want C.C back. If we lose him, it's not the end of the world, it's just bad.
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Unread postby jb » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:23 pm

So.... he sigh yet?

Still waiting.
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Unread postby tribefan333 » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:47 pm

^^^If it's done by Friday night I'll be happy. Seeing these go past possible deadlines is not fun.
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Unread postby Prosecutor » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:37 am

Losing CC won't be the end of the world by any stretch.

First of all, it will free up the tens of millions of dollars that would have gone to CC that can now be used to sign other free agents. Like a BSD corner outfielder and a couple of upgrades to the bullpen. And probably a lot more than that.

Secondly, we would get a couple of first round draft picks as compensation, if I'm not mistaken. So with the money we save on CC' next contract we could add significant major league talent right now, and the draft picks would probably add more talent in a few years.

Finally, the system is in good shape in terms of starting pitching. Carmona has emerged as a potential ace. He is probably comparable or even better than CC was at age 23. Adam Miller is the second-highest rated pitching prospect in the minors behind Hughes. Scouts compare him to Kevin Brown, the guy who got a $202 million deal a few years back. We also have Sowers, Laffey, Lofgren, and the Lewis kid from Ohio State, all of whom have the potential to be good starters at the major league level.

Miller is 22 and Carmona is 23, and both could be equal to CC by the time they reach his current age (26). By the time we have to replace CC in 2009, they both could be excellent starters. Hell, Carmona already is. He's on pace to win 18 this year.

So it's a tradeoff. Are we better off with CC in the rotation for the next six years, or with $100 million to spend on free agents, a couple of extra first round picks, Carmona stepping in as the #1, and Miller or Lofgren taking Carmona's spot?

I say it's a win-win. Actually, the bigger risk would be signing CC and having him get hurt and become mediocre long before his contract expires. Didn't something like that happen with Kevin Brown?
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Unread postby Babrook » Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:50 am

Prosecutor wrote:
Miller is 22 and Carmona is 23, and both could be equal to CC by the time they reach his current age (26). By the time we have to replace CC in 2009, they both could be excellent starters. Hell, Carmona already is. He's on pace to win 18 this year.


No. While I am a huge Miller fan and maybe the biggest Carmona fan there is, I can honestly say no. It's not all about the wins. In that logic, Jose Lima (http://www.baseball-reference.com/l/limajo01.shtml) is a great pitcher. Wins are not everything. Does Carmona have potential to be an ace? Yes. A premier ace? Yes. But is he as good as C.C? No. This is his first year, and I expect to see great things from him, but he is no C.C.

I say it's a win-win. Actually, the bigger risk would be signing CC and having him get hurt and become mediocre long before his contract expires. Didn't something like that happen with Kevin Brown?


This would be a risk that we would take with any of the free agents.
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Unread postby mattvan1 » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:24 pm

Pros-

A good post somewhat tainted by
First of all, it will free up the tens of millions of dollars that would have gone to CC that can now be used to sign other free agents. Like a BSD corner outfielder and a couple of upgrades to the bullpen. And probably a lot more than that.


Dude, have you not been paying attention for the last 5 years or so? :mrgreen: I guess the key is "can be used" as opposed to "will be used" so you're off the hook.
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Unread postby USBlues19 » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:55 pm

Here's hoping they get the deal done, and that the distraction of the negotiations is what has been the cause for Pronk's sub-Pronk performance thus far.

If a deal gets done, I predict Hafner hits about .340 for July.
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Unread postby tribefan333 » Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:47 pm

Ok I think we are on different pages here. I'm saying:

Lose CC and get nothing in return: BAD
Lose CC and get something, anything in return: GOOD

Even if it's nearly nothing, just get someone in return for him.
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Unread postby jb » Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:43 pm

tribefan333 wrote:Ok I think we are on different pages here. I'm saying:

Lose CC and get nothing in return: BAD
Lose CC and get something, anything in return: GOOD

Even if it's nearly nothing, just get someone in return for him.


Is a world series "something' ?
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Unread postby tribefan333 » Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:56 pm

ok.....still waiting for Hafners announcement!!!
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