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Cleveland Indians & MLB

I wonder?

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I wonder?

Unread postby captain_wahoo » Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:35 pm

How much would it take to get Jason Bay? Would Cliff Lee, Franklin Gutierrez, and Chuck Lofgren be enough? Lee could start right now, and Lofgren gives them a top prospect who could be ready in 2009.
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Re: I wonder?

Unread postby pup » Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:46 pm

captain_wahoo wrote:How much would it take to get Jason Bay? Would Cliff Lee, Franklin Gutierrez, and Chuck Lofgren be enough? Lee could start right now, and Lofgren gives them a top prospect who could be ready in 2009.


The only problem is the Pirates have decent young starting pitching. What they don't have is any offense and I don't see how this would change that for them.

On the other hand, I am all for it is they are.
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Unread postby paulcousineau » Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:49 pm

Boy, if I could have any corner OF in MLB - Bay would be in my top 3.

I'm a HUGE Jason Bay fan, though trading him would essentially destroy baseball in Pittsburgh. The team couldn't trade away their best player, whom they're supposedly building around for more rebuilding.

Carmona or Miller would probably be thrown out there by the Pirates. Then again, it is the Pirates.

By the way, Jason Bay's best friend? One Grady Sizemore. They were both in the Expos' organization early in their careers.
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Unread postby captain_wahoo » Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:33 pm

What if they wanted Garko in the deal. Move Blake to first and put Marte at third. Would say Cliff Lee, Franklin Gutierrez, and Ryan Garko for Bay work??
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Unread postby Steve Buffum » Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:36 pm

Um ... since Lofgren is a lot more valuable than Garko, I don't see the point of this line of inquiry.
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Unread postby captain_wahoo » Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:38 pm

The point made earlier is that they have young pitching and need offense. Garko would provide offense. If we gave them Lee, Lofgren, Garko, and Gutierrez we would need more than Jason Bay in return.
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Unread postby ArtGold » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:15 pm

I would think Lee, Garko and Lofgren would be an attractive package, and probably work from the Indians perspective too.
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Unread postby pup » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:32 pm

I would think Lee, Garko and Lofgren would be an attractive package, and probably work from the Indians perspective too.


They just signed LaRoche, who stinks, but there is nothing they can do about that know.

The Pirates are not going to pay him to not play first base.

Any package they would want would have to include an offensive middle infielder, plus a corner OF to replace Bay and a CF or another corner guy.

We ain't got the tools to do that, unless we want to send them Jhonny.
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Unread postby MadThinker88 » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:40 pm

Peralta and Lofgren for Bay???

Where do I sign?????
For the record, I'm a fan of Peralta and I had no issue with Shapiro not picking up the option on Vizquel.

You get Bay (a dear friend of Grady) here in Cleveland and I will deal with Rouse/ A. Cabrera at short.
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Unread postby pup » Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:30 pm

I will deal with Rouse/ A. Cabrera at short.


Stop it. Mike Rouse. Starting shortstop for an AL pennant chaser. Surely you jest.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:33 pm

If you start Rouse at short you might want to consider letting Sabathia hit, and DH'ing for Rouse.....
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Unread postby Steve Buffum » Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:38 pm

In the poster's defense, I think he meant Rouse/ACabrera in the same vein that it is Rouse/Peralta now.
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Unread postby paulcousineau » Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:50 pm

Back to the matter at hand-
Bay, a RH-hitting LF, has these AVERAGES over the course of his career:
.290 / .385 / .536, 36 doubles, 32 HR, 106 RBI

Throw in the fact that he's 28 and is under contract through 2009 with these numbers:
2007 - $3.25M
2008 - $5.75M
2009 - $7.5M

Yeah, we could find a spot for him.

What Pittsburgh would want in return is the big question because Bay WOULD be the answer for those who want a run-producing RH bat for a corner OF spot.

He certainly fits the mold of the type of player that Shapiro likes to acquire (in the vein of Josh Barfield) in that he's not a quick-fix or a rental.
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Unread postby MadThinker88 » Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:12 pm

In my own defense (many thanks to Steve B), I would rather have the no stick/ very above average glove at short then limited stick and average at best glove we are sticking out in the corner outfield spots currently.

Would I prefer a more rounded SS? Yes.
But I can better handle using the mega-D guy at SS (he would help every sinkerball pitcher we have) then guys that can't close the outfield gaps and turn singles/outs into extra base hits.
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Unread postby pup » Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:13 pm

The DiaTriber wrote:Back to the matter at hand-
Bay, a RH-hitting LF, has these AVERAGES over the course of his career:
.290 / .385 / .536, 36 doubles, 32 HR, 106 RBI

Throw in the fact that he's 28 and is under contract through 2009 with these numbers:
2007 - $3.25M
2008 - $5.75M
2009 - $7.5M

Yeah, we could find a spot for him.

What Pittsburgh would want in return is the big question because Bay WOULD be the answer for those who want a run-producing RH bat for a corner OF spot.

He certainly fits the mold of the type of player that Shapiro likes to acquire (in the vein of Josh Barfield) in that he's not a quick-fix or a rental.


If that is in fact the only matter at hand, then everyone who does not want Jason Bay, please raise your hand... (~)


All right, now that we have covered that.

What is the point in adding a right handed power bat if it costs you a right handed power bat. If they would take A Cabrera, with Fransisco, Snyder and Lee/Sowers/Lofgren, then it is an option. If it costs Peralta, I don't quite see the point.
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Unread postby MadThinker88 » Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:20 pm

Pup,
If we can improve the RH bat (Bay > Peralta) and in the process improve the infield and outfield defense and while at it improve the team speed, does it not make sense to at least explore the possibilities?? :-) :smile: :)
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Unread postby consigliere » Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:25 pm

We have no chance at getting Bay.

Young players who are established studs, or young emerging talents soon to be studs just will cost way too much in terms of prospects.....and that is completely against the way the Indians do things.

They'd rather go out and acquire a veteran maybe just hitting his twilight or downside, but still very productive and still a good player....but most importantly, won't rape the team of their top farm assets.

I agree you use the farm system as currency for deals, but teams like the Indians can't afford to trade top guys. If you do, it better be for that one player you feel puts the team over the top (and you better have depth you think can fill the void).
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Unread postby paulcousineau » Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:45 am

Pup wrote:
The DiaTriber wrote:Back to the matter at hand-
Bay, a RH-hitting LF, has these AVERAGES over the course of his career:
.290 / .385 / .536, 36 doubles, 32 HR, 106 RBI

Throw in the fact that he's 28 and is under contract through 2009 with these numbers:
2007 - $3.25M
2008 - $5.75M
2009 - $7.5M

Yeah, we could find a spot for him.

What Pittsburgh would want in return is the big question because Bay WOULD be the answer for those who want a run-producing RH bat for a corner OF spot.

He certainly fits the mold of the type of player that Shapiro likes to acquire (in the vein of Josh Barfield) in that he's not a quick-fix or a rental.


If that is in fact the only matter at hand, then everyone who does not want Jason Bay, please raise your hand... (~)


All right, now that we have covered that.

What is the point in adding a right handed power bat if it costs you a right handed power bat. If they would take A Cabrera, with Fransisco, Snyder and Lee/Sowers/Lofgren, then it is an option. If it costs Peralta, I don't quite see the point.


Geez, simmer...I think one person suggested the Peralta thing and you bit his head off pretty well.

Everyone else pointed out that Bay would fit in well, but would cost an arm and a leg. If anything, I think that it validates the point that a guy like Bay would be perfect for the lineup.

They don't come cheap and they don't fall out of trees, though.
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Unread postby captain_wahoo » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:00 am

The thing about it is that Pittsburgh has almost no chance of ever resigning this guy, so at what does the mentality of we're better off getting something for this guy instead of just letting him walk kick in? Once they decide to trade him, then the bidding will begin. The thing is that now a days, most teams seem to put extreme value on prospects and don't seem to inclined to deal them.
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