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What Do We Know About Ben Francisco?

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What Do We Know About Ben Francisco?

Unread postby Hoover » Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:12 pm

Delluci and Michaels have worn out their welcomes. These guys can't catch tough fly balls, and they don't hit in the clutch. They may be good "clubhouse leaders" but they don't have much talent.

So what about Ben Francisco? He sure has good numbers this year. .341 average, .399 OBP, and better plate discipline than anybody in our OF besides Grady. Ben is 6'1" 180 lbs. Is he similar to Gutz bodywise?

Has anyone here actually seen Ben play? I'd like to see your evaluation if you have.
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Unread postby tribefan333 » Sat Jun 16, 2007 7:06 pm

I don't know if I'd say Dellucci isn't clutch just yet. He has done a subpar job, but has come through and won us a game just a while back.
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Unread postby Hoover » Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:04 pm

tribefan333 wrote:I don't know if I'd say Dellucci isn't clutch just yet. He has done a subpar job, but has come through and won us a game just a while back.


On a cripple pitch from an awful reliever. He's hitting .174 with RISP. If that's not terrible clutch hitting, I don't know what is.

But back to Francisco, have any of you guys seen him or know anything more about him?
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Re: What Do We Know About Ben Francisco?

Unread postby Mcreek » Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:46 am

Hoover wrote:Delluci and Michaels have worn out their welcomes. These guys can't catch tough fly balls, and they don't hit in the clutch. They may be good "clubhouse leaders" but they don't have much talent.

So what about Ben Francisco? He sure has good numbers this year. .341 average, .399 OBP, and better plate discipline than anybody in our OF besides Grady. Ben is 6'1" 180 lbs. Is he similar to Gutz bodywise?

Has anyone here actually seen Ben play? I'd like to see your evaluation if you have.


When BenFran was drafted some scouts thought he had 20/20 potential with small ball skills and the abilty to play all three outfield positions. Francisco is in line to win his second minor league batting title . He has had injury problems in the past but has been healthy the last two years.

Ellis Burkes is a big fan of his and thinks he could be a solid everyday player. The consensus is Francisco is a 4th outfielder or platoon player though he hits righthanders better than lefty's, (253 vs lefthanders, 372 against righthanders. His power hasn't developed as hoped but he looks to be a proffesional hitter with other Tools/skillset that stiffs like Nixon-Michaels and Dellucci lack.
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Unread postby Prosecutor » Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:58 am

If Francisco is hitting .372 against right-handers at AAA I'd bring him up and dump Nixon. Francisco has to be a lot faster than Trot, who at his age can barely trot. Not to mention that he can't hit anymore. Let's try a Gutierrez/Francisco platoon in right and see how the yutes do. They both hit .340 at Buffalo; it's time to give them an extended shot.

Doing that, however, would force Shapiro to admit that he screwed up by giving millions to Nixon and Dellucci. So don't hold your breath.
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Unread postby ArtGold » Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:10 pm

I am and have been a big Ben Francisco supporter, as a backup outfielder.

Though he has had a very good season so far, on top of his decent AAA performance last year, I want to point out that he has been slumping a bit lately and is only hitting .211 in his last 10 games, with no HRs and only 1 RBI. His hitting against RH pitchers is still an exceptional .367, but I do want to point out he has been in a bit of a slump the past couple of weeks.
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Unread postby Wahoot » Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:41 pm

We know he looks like this . . .

Image
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Unread postby consigliere » Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:01 am

IMO, one of the Dellucci or Nixon has to go. I might be fine with one of them sticking as the LH part of a platoon, but we simply CANNOT have both of them in the lineup.

To me, I'd go with Sizemore in CF....and then a Delluci/Micheals platoon in LF and a Choo/Gutierrez platoon in RF.

I want Francisco on this team yesterday, but don't think he will get the chance until Gutierrez is gone. I believe one of Gutierrez or Francisco could be on the move come the trade deadline in a package deal for a bat or arm (I hope it is Gutierrez who is sent packing).
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Unread postby Prosecutor » Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:46 am

What do you think, Consig, can we package Stanford and Gutierrez for a corner outfielder with some pop?

Or how about Garko as trade bait? If Marte is heating up we could bring him back and move Blake back to first. Pronk and Victor can also play first, and I think Shoppach has earned more playing time, which frees up Victor to play first more often. Between Blake and Victor they should be able to hold down first base just fine, with Pronk also available. It just seems like we have a logjam at first base, and now we have Beau Mills in the pipeline.

If we could package some combination of Stanford, Gutierrez/Francisco, and/or Garko for a BSD outfielder, we would essentially be trading spare parts for a front-line impact player. I'd also like to see us make a move on Gagne.
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Unread postby Prosecutor » Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:57 am

Speaking of Eric Gagne, his line so far is 18 IP, 9 hits, 18 K's, and 1 earned run. Looks like he's all the way back. Now I have to be impressed with Borowski's 20 saves by the middle of June, but Gagne is being wasted in Texas, and he's a hell of a lot better than Borowski. I'd love to see the Tribe make a deal for this guy.
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Unread postby intenso » Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:24 am

Prosecutor wrote:Speaking of Eric Gagne, his line so far is 18 IP, 9 hits, 18 K's, and 1 earned run. Looks like he's all the way back. Now I have to be impressed with Borowski's 20 saves by the middle of June, but Gagne is being wasted in Texas, and he's a hell of a lot better than Borowski. I'd love to see the Tribe make a deal for this guy.



and he's only been on the DL twice this year. :-| :neutral: :|
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Unread postby Prosecutor » Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:21 pm

I don't know about that, intenso. Looking at Gagne's game log, he didn't pitch from April 27 to May 10, which is only two weeks. Since then he's been pitching regularly, with no more than five days between appearances.

In 19 appearances he's only been scored on one time, a home run against the Red Sox.

Here are the current ERA's of the Rangers' starting pitchers:

McCarthy 5.90
Tejada 6.49
Loe 6.56
Padilla 6.57
Millwood 7.62 (aren't we glad the Tribe didn't break the bank for him!)

Do you think the Rangers might be interested in a Jason Stanford?

Once Westbrook gets back we have a logjam at starting pitcher. Stanford is out of options so we almost have to trade him or release him, unless we want to try and convert him to a relief pitcher, which I heard Shapiro won't do. How about trading him for Gagne? Yeah, Gagne is an injury risk, but Borowski actually failed another team's physical before the Tribe took a chance on him. We also took a chance on Kevin Millwood, and that worked out all right. Same with Bob Wickman.

We don't have much use for Stanford once Jake gets back. That gives us CC, Jake, Carmona, Byrd, and Lee in the rotation, with Sowers and Adam Miller at AAA. Where is Stanford supposed to fit in with that group?

Look at the Orioles. They picked up Jeremy Guthrie and he's kicking butt for them. The Rangers might want to see if lightning could strike for them too with Stanford. He can't be any worse than what they're trotting out now. When your starters have ERA's like those, who needs a closer?

The clincher is that with Borowski also able to close we would not have to overwork Gagne. Wedge could make sure he gets 1-2 days between appearances in order to keep him fresh and healthy. With Gagne, Boro, Betancourt, and Perez, we'd have one hell of a back end. That's less innings for Oberto, which is OK by me.

This is what championship teams do. They strike when the iron is hot. They trade spare parts (Stanford, Gutierrez, Garko) for guys who can put them over the top.
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Unread postby ArtGold » Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:28 pm

Sticking with the title for a sec here, I agree that either Nixon or Dellucci really need to be moved. Personally, I would like to move Dellucci because I think he has more value and a longer term contract, and let Nixon go at the end of the season.

But we have to start giving Choo, Francisco and Gutierrez a chance. We have Barton, Snyder and others on the horizon and need to make some constructive personnel decisions.
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Unread postby pup » Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:55 pm

But we have to start giving Choo, Francisco and Gutierrez a chance. We have Barton, Snyder and others on the horizon and need to make some constructive personnel decisions.


Is there any indication, from past moves, that this will happen? I mean if it took an injury to get Grady a shot at playing up here everyday, what will it take for one of these guys.

I am not dissing your opinion, but I think you are expecting something to happen that just ain't gonna happen.
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Unread postby paulcousineau » Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:42 pm

Here are the current ERA's of the Rangers' starting pitchers:

McCarthy 5.90
Tejada 6.49
Loe 6.56
Padilla 6.57
Millwood 7.62 (aren't we glad the Tribe didn't break the bank for him!)

Do you think the Rangers might be interested in a Jason Stanford?


Absolutely.
The package of Stanford and Frank the Tank that everyone seems willing to part with looks tailor-made for a Rangers' swap.

My hope is for Otsuka (Gagne still scares me health-wise) and I think that, while it's not the popular view, this offense will score enough to continue to win games.
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Unread postby Eckersley » Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:05 pm

Sure, Nixon or Dellucci should be given their walking papers, but they bring that "veteran clubhouse presence" that Wedgie whined about not having last season.

I don't look for either 1 to be gone until at least August. By then, we may be looking up at the division & wild card leaders.
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Unread postby intenso » Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:44 pm

The DiaTriber wrote:
Here are the current ERA's of the Rangers' starting pitchers:

McCarthy 5.90
Tejada 6.49
Loe 6.56
Padilla 6.57
Millwood 7.62 (aren't we glad the Tribe didn't break the bank for him!)

Do you think the Rangers might be interested in a Jason Stanford?


Absolutely.
The package of Stanford and Frank the Tank that everyone seems willing to part with looks tailor-made for a Rangers' swap.

My hope is for Otsuka (Gagne still scares me health-wise) and I think that, while it's not the popular view, this offense will score enough to continue to win games.




I agree. Let's get Aki. (and saaaaaaaammy.)
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Unread postby ArtGold » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:14 pm

Pup, I'm not expecting it but think it should take place. I am a firm believer in providing opportunities to your farm team players who have earned the opportunity and wasn't thrilled with the Dellucci signing, disagreed with the Michaels extension, and went into a deep depression when we signed Nixon.

I would actually be OK with these if it didn't guarantee playing time, but the Tribe doesn't sign players to guaranteed money to sit on the bench, even if clearly beaten out for the position. This is a term I have called "playing the contracts" as opposed to playing the talent earning the positions.

If Nixon or Dellucci beat out but could be a PH reserve, I'd be more OK with these types of signings, but that doesn't happen.
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Unread postby Steve Buffum » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:16 pm

Paging Macky P:

Jonny Gomes is hitting, and has to be cheap after years of bad-mouthing ... how's he look?
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Unread postby Prosecutor » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:33 pm

The DiaTriber wrote:
Here are the current ERA's of the Rangers' starting pitchers:

McCarthy 5.90
Tejada 6.49
Loe 6.56
Padilla 6.57
Millwood 7.62 (aren't we glad the Tribe didn't break the bank for him!)

Do you think the Rangers might be interested in a Jason Stanford?


Absolutely.
The package of Stanford and Frank the Tank that everyone seems willing to part with looks tailor-made for a Rangers' swap.

My hope is for Otsuka (Gagne still scares me health-wise) and I think that, while it's not the popular view, this offense will score enough to continue to win games.


Checking the batting stats for the Rangers right and left fielders, here is what I came up with:

Nelson Cruz 144 AB's, .188
Catalanotto 113 AB's, .186
Wilkerson 115 AB's, .217
Kata 70 AB's, .186

Geez, Dellucci and Nixon would actually be upgrades over these stiffs. Yeah, I'd think if we offered them Stanford, their choice of Gutierrez and Francisco, and maybe a AA prospect we could take Gagne's $6 million contract off their hands. They're not getting their money's worth right now and I think he's only got a one year deal, so what's the point of hanging on to him when they could get three young players, two of which are major league ready and fill huge needs?
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Unread postby pup » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:33 pm

He would put us way over the Jhonny/Johnny threshold. Per MLB rules you can only have one guy who refuses to call himself John.
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Unread postby Steve Buffum » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:40 pm

Pup wrote:He would put us way over the Jhonny/Johnny threshold. Per MLB rules you can only have one guy who refuses to call himself John.

Yeah, but he has no "h" at all. Surely there's a "net placement" exemption.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:21 pm

Steve Buffum wrote:Paging Macky P:

Jonny Gomes is hitting, and has to be cheap after years of bad-mouthing ... how's he look?


Gomes has got pop. I'd imagine that he would not be expensive, though the problems with Elijah Dukes make Gomes a bit less expendable.

The Rays desperately need relief pitchers. I'd think they'd like the upside of someone like Mastny and would take an interest in Cabrera's still intriguing upside. Both of those guys are better than what they've got right now. They'd probably ask for two relievers in return and those guys would get it done.

Gomes still Ks a lot and struggled last year to find his swing, but he's a powerful right-handed bat when his swing is working and when he's patient. He's always been a pretty good OBP guy so he'd fit in. Problem is that he's not great playing the OF, though he has the arm to play RF. You give him 500 ABs and he will hit around 30 HRs. If the Tribe could get him and watch his swing then he'd be great protection for Hafner.
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Unread postby Steve Buffum » Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:26 pm

I've heard that Gomes has looked a lot better (i.e., the way he used to) recently, leading some to theorize that his shoulder has only recently actually healed.
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Unread postby consigliere » Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:10 pm

I have no idea what type of BSD is going to be available, but going by my assumption that a worthwhile one probably won't be available and we also likely would not pay the price in prospects for one.....I keep looking for short term options. Guys on one year deals who are productive, may be a good fit, and also won't cost you your top prospects.

I keep getting back to Sammy Sosa. For whatever reason, I believe a combo of him and say Choo in RF would be ideal. And, then you go with the Michaels and one of Nixon/Delluci in LF in a platoon.

Michaels has grown on me some. He has done well in the 4th outfield role. While I agree that I'd rather see B-Fran in Michaels spot, I can't complain with Michaels performance to date.

Next year, we need to find a regular everyday RHed bat for LF or RF. Jermaine Dye would be a perfect fit. But, probably out of our pricerange. I believe we'd pay him $10M+ a season, but not for the 3-5 he'll want. Then, with the other OF spot, go with a Francisco/Choo platoon. Or, instead of Choo, use Dellucci if you can't dump him.
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Unread postby Prosecutor » Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:32 am

OK, assuming there are no BSD's available for a major trade, and assuming Gagne doesn't want to pitch for the Indians for the rest of this year for some inexplicable reason, we still ought to try and improve the roster for the stretch run. Sosa is killing lefties, and the Tribe rolls over and dies anytime a lefty starts, so he would definitely be a target. He also is making 500K this year, so he's cheaper than any of the stiffs we've got now.

The immediate problem, though, is Stanford. Westbrook is ready to come off the DL and Stanford is out of options. I suppose we could send Cabrera down and keep Stanford, but what are we going to do with six starters? Pitch Stanford in long relief?

I just don't want to see them give Stanford away like they gave away Brandon Phillips and Jeremy Guthrie.
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Unread postby paulcousineau » Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:47 am

The immediate problem, though, is Stanford. Westbrook is ready to come off the DL and Stanford is out of options. I suppose we could send Cabrera down and keep Stanford, but what are we going to do with six starters? Pitch Stanford in long relief?


Cabrera is out of options and can't be sent down
Perez can be sent down and Stanford could take his spot in the bullpen as the 2nd LHP/Long Man to make sure that Jake is right.

If he's not, Stanford slides back into the rotation as Jake revisits the DL.
If he is, Stanford becomes trade bait - assuming Slocum or Miller get healthy and become the 6th starters again.
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Unread postby VultureHxC » Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:13 am

i'd like gomes and think he's be a good pick up but i don't think tampa would trade him. right now they are going with crawford, young, and gomes in the outfield with dukes and baldelli off the bench. they've been trying to showcase and trade baldelli for a while and a lot of people seem to think that dukes' off field actions will get him traded.
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Unread postby consigliere » Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:30 am

Prosecutor wrote:I just don't want to see them give Stanford away like they gave away Brandon Phillips and Jeremy Guthrie.


I wouldn't feel that way.

Look, you have a 40-man roster and limited space. When you have a system as deep as the Indians, you can't keep everyone. Players like Stanford and Guthrie are hard to trade because they have little value.

The key is to avoid losing players like Brandon Phillips. THat was ridiculous. But, losing plyers like Stanford and Guthrie on waivers is not the end of the world. If Stanford is DFAed, I beieve someone with low waiver priority will give us something for him in a trade......but something along the lines of what we got for Jason Davis.
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Unread postby Prosecutor » Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:50 am

losing plyers like Stanford and Guthrie on waivers is not the end of the world

No, but who wants to give away solid starters? Losing Jason Davis isn't the end of the world.

Players like Stanford and Guthrie are hard to trade because they have little value.

Stanford pitched very well in AAA and went 7 innings the other night, giving up only one run. If he has a similar performance tonight I have to believe somebody will offer us a decent prospect for him. The Rangers rotation is a disaster, for example. We got Travis Hafner out of that organization a few years ago for Ryan Drese and a backup catcher. I'd like to see us pull off something like that again.

I beieve someone with low waiver priority will give us something for him in a trade......but something along the lines of what we got for Jason Davis.

Davis had a great arm but never produced. After Stanford's Tommy John surgery he doesn't have a great arm, but he's sure getting hitters out. Plus, he's a left-handed starter, not a right-hander who failed as a starter, a closer, a set-up man, and a long reliever. We can get more for him than we got for Davis. Left-handed starters are in demand.

Here's a crazy idea. How about Paul Byrd to long relief? The guy gets killed by left-handed hitters, and he has been ineffective as a starter recently. In the bullpen he could be matched up against righties, which plays to his strength. With Matt Miller back in Buffalo, Byrd could take over the role of junk-throwing right-handed situational guy. He could also pitch long relief, which Perez is doing now. Wedge recently said that Perez is pitching so well he will "graduate" to a bigger role. Maybe now is the time.

Byrd will be pissed off, and we don't know if he will make a smooth transition after spending his career as a starter. But it beats trading Stanford for something of "little value" and continuing to trot Byrd out there to get hammered every five days.

Trot Nixon is at the stage of his career where he only hits against right-handed pitching. Maybe it's time for Byrd to be moved to a role where he can be more effective.
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Unread postby consigliere » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:48 am

Hey, I'd love to keep Stanford....or trade him and get something great in return.

I'm just trying to be realistic here. The guy has performed well in Buffalo, and may be on the verge of salvaging a once promising career. Problem is, he is at a position we have a lot of depth at, particularly on the 40-man roster.

I think one of two things happen, and that is Stanford sticks in the pen (unsure they will do this or not), or they DFA him. He likely won't clear waivers, but a team with low waiver priority will likely want him and give us a good Single-A type prospect with upside. Think something along the lines of somewhere inbetween what we got for Jason Davis and Bob Wickman.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:43 pm

Steve Buffum wrote:I've heard that Gomes has looked a lot better (i.e., the way he used to) recently, leading some to theorize that his shoulder has only recently actually healed.


That has been the talk down here, though no one is sure because the players can be dodgy about injuries.

He's hitting much like he did two seasons ago.

I think he can be a .270-.280 guy with a .360+ OBP who can give you 30+ HRs in a full season to go with his 150+ strikeouts. He Ks about 28% of the time, walks 36% of the time, and puts the ball in play about 36% of the time. Not bad and I could live the the Ks because he can put up a solid OBP.

He could be better in Cleveland with a stronger supporting cast around him.

If Stanford pitches well then I'd imagine the Rays would take him in a heartbeat. He could start or pitch out of the pen. I'd also guess that they'd want Cabrera as well.

I still think a Cabrera + Mastny deal would be possible. A guy like Mujica would also be of interest, probably moreso. Would you do it if Gomes can bat .270-.280 with power and OBP?
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Unread postby Steve Buffum » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:52 pm

Mr. MacPhisto wrote:I still think a Cabrera + Mastny deal would be possible. A guy like Mujica would also be of interest, probably moreso. Would you do it if Gomes can bat .270-.280 with power and OBP?

I'd probably try to get Reyes in the deal, too, but I'm in the same discussion with you.

Open question: Brian Barton doesn't have the power of Gomes, but would he be an adequate platoon partner?

In a sense, I almost think I'd rather find a LEFT-handed bat: the problem isn't as much when Michaels and Gutierrez play as it is when Dellucci and Nixon play ...
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Unread postby Prosecutor » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:54 pm

The thing is, Byrd is getting killed by left-handed hitters again this year. In fact, they're hitting .351 against him. Supposedly he worked on a pitch that could get lefties out in the off-season and he was having some success with it in April. But it's definitely not working anymore, and there is no way a pitcher can be even a semi-effective starter when lefties are lighting him up like that. This is not a temporary thing. This is a continuation of last year. I see no reason to expect him to improve, especially since he worked the entire off-season on it with no success.

I don't understand why we would let Stanford go for a low minor leaguer and continue to let Byrd go out and get hammered every five games. Face it, Byrd is past his prime and can no longer cut it as a starter. He should go to the pen and be a situational reliever. Even that might not be ideal, as righties are hitting .303 against him. Frankly, I'm not sure what to do with him. He's given up 58 hits in his last six starts.

If Stanford has a second quality start tonight, I would shut Byrd down and give Stanford a shot. Send Mastny down until we figure out what to do with the starters.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:05 pm

Steve Buffum wrote:I'd probably try to get Reyes in the deal, too, but I'm in the same discussion with you.

Open question: Brian Barton doesn't have the power of Gomes, but would he be an adequate platoon partner?

In a sense, I almost think I'd rather find a LEFT-handed bat: the problem isn't as much when Michaels and Gutierrez play as it is when Dellucci and Nixon play ...


I'm not sure if you'd need to platoon Barton. He does pretty well against lefties and righties.

http://www.minorleaguesplits.com/cgi-bi ... AkrEL&bp=b

I'm one who doesn't understand the need to find all these lefties. 1/3 of the lineup without Dellucci and Nixon can bat LHed. It'd be good to have one extra LHed bat when needed, but I think there are RHed bats that can do better that Nixon and Dellucci of late.

In his 2005 season, Gomes hit well against both righties and lefties, posting a superior OPS versus righties. He's a guy I'd leave in every day if he's hitting. I'd move Hafner to the #4 slot and put Gomes in at #5, moving Victor up to #3.
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Unread postby Hoover » Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:14 pm

The more I see of Ben, the more I like what I see.

The dude can flat out rake. :thumleft:
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Unread postby Steve Buffum » Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:15 pm

Hoover wrote:The more I see of Ben, the more I like what I see.

The dude can flat out rake. :thumleft:

Seems like a pretty good left fielder, too, at least with respect to range. (Haven't seen his arm.)
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Unread postby Hoover » Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:28 pm

His arm looks pretty serviceable too, although it hasn't been fully tested by a runner trying to take an additional base. Based on his throws to 2nd, I'd say it's easily better than Delluci's or Michaels.'
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Unread postby consigliere » Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:57 pm

I love Francisco. If people have paid attention on here and over on C-Sports the last 3-4 years, they know I have a pretty strong baseball affection to Mr. Francisco. I've liked him ever since I first saw him play at Lake County in 2003.

And to think he was a last minute addition to the Rule 5 Draft this past offseason. The Indians don't protect him, and he is easily gone and sticks with another team. One of those unheralded decisions you never hear about.

I have a feeling teams will be calling about Francisco this July. I hope we keep him, and instead convince someone to take Gutierrez instead.
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Unread postby tribetalk » Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:57 pm

I just know he was the best hitter in the New York Penn League back in 2003 I think, with the Mahoning Valley Scrappers. Back then I knew the kid had the bat to make it to the bigs, and now he is performing for the Tribe.

HE MUST START EVERYDAY AND YOU WILL SEE WE HAVE 2 LOCKED UP OF POSITIONS!
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Unread postby drewd » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:42 am

NIXON has to stay on this team, cant get rid of him bc of team chemistry!!

But I would trade off Dellucci and Michaels for some relief pitching.

and my starting outfield would be:
Gutierrez RF
Sizemore CF
Francisco LF

[EVERYDAY LINEUP] would be:
1)Gutierrez Bat R
2)Barfield Bat R
3)Sizemore Bat L
4)Peralta Bat R
5)Martinez Bat S
6)Garko Bat R
7)Hafner Bat L
8)Francisco Bat R
9)Blake Bat R
Last edited by drewd on Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:50 am

I'd keep Michaels because he can rake against the lefties.

I like a Francisco/Michaels platoon in LF. Francisco historically hits righties much better than lefties while Michaels can hit lefties.

We need to give Gutierrez more time too, especially if we want to shop him. I'd only trade him for a current need and not a prospect. If he does well enough then I'd keep him for now. If the corner outfielders start to hit with Hafner coming on then the offense can really get rolling.
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Unread postby ArtGold » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:05 am

I'd just as soon play Francisco and Gutierrez a lot, at least until they play themselves out of their positions. Michaels deserves his platoon, but these would be my corner outfielders for the near future.

Amazing the way Francisco and Carmona have had to get so many challenges tossed in front of them before given an appropriate chance. It really makes me wonder what the heck the front office and manager are thinking. It is one of the things I think they really should be a bit introspective about this off season. They don't seem to be able to appropriately identify the talent level of many of their prospects.
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Unread postby pup » Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:45 am

1)Gutierrez Bat R
2)Barfield Bat R
3)Sizemore Bat L
4)Peralta Bat R
5)Martinez Bat S
6)Garko Bat R
7)Hafner Bat L
8)Francisco Bat R
9)Blake Bat R


Was it too many of these (beer) or do you prefer these (d) when you came up with that lineup?
Home Run Leaders as RHB 5/7/13

Mark Reynolds (10)
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Unread postby swerb » Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:01 pm

Good column on Benny in todays PD. Had no idea him and Garko played HS ball together.

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/plaindea ... xml&coll=2
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:10 pm

I'm really liking Francisco and now am thinking that he needs to start everyday with Gutierrez and Michaels doing the lefty/righty platoon in LF. I believe Francisco can play RF everyday and I think he'll be much better than other options there. I don't expect him to be the monster he's been but I think he's a big upgrade over Nixon.
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Unread postby consigliere » Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:11 pm

Swerb wrote:Good column on Benny in todays PD. Had no idea him and Garko played HS ball together.

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/plaindea ... xml&coll=2


I was three months ahead of these guys with that connection. :P :-P :razz:

http://www.theclevelandfan.com/article_ ... hp?id=1557

Garko-Francisco Connection

An unknown fact hardly mentioned in spring training was how Ryan Garko and Ben Francisco were once high school teammates at Servite High School in Orange County, California. Both graduated the same year (1999), and on the baseball team Garko hit third in the lineup while Francisco hit cleanup. After high school, Francisco attended Cypress Junior College and then transferred to UCLA, while Garko attended Stanford University. To show how small the world is sometimes, the former high school teammates found themselves in a battle for the final bench spot with the Indians the final week in spring training.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:36 pm

Prosecutor wrote:The thing is, Byrd is getting killed by left-handed hitters again this year. In fact, they're hitting .351 against him. Supposedly he worked on a pitch that could get lefties out in the off-season and he was having some success with it in April. But it's definitely not working anymore, and there is no way a pitcher can be even a semi-effective starter when lefties are lighting him up like that. This is not a temporary thing. This is a continuation of last year. I see no reason to expect him to improve, especially since he worked the entire off-season on it with no success.

I don't understand why we would let Stanford go for a low minor leaguer and continue to let Byrd go out and get hammered every five games. Face it, Byrd is past his prime and can no longer cut it as a starter. He should go to the pen and be a situational reliever. Even that might not be ideal, as righties are hitting .303 against him. Frankly, I'm not sure what to do with him. He's given up 58 hits in his last six starts.

If Stanford has a second quality start tonight, I would shut Byrd down and give Stanford a shot. Send Mastny down until we figure out what to do with the starters.


I agree with this. To take it a step further, Paul Byrd, at this juncture, has zero business pitching on a team that hopes to make the playoffs. Let alone one that has someone that can take his place. I've said this before, but if a guy like Stanford takes Byrd's place and does POORLY, he'll be just as good as Byrd. This is a no lose situation if you have the balls to tell the vet who is making money what time it is.

That being said, I'm sure we're in for several more lousy Byrd starts before anything happens. He is totally done. He will end the year as the easiest guy in the league to hit.
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Unread postby dmiles » Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:40 pm

Small world this guy I know who lives up OC is the sports photographer for Servite.

Anyway in the same HS teammates playing together in the majors wasn't Brian Giles a teammate of that dude who banged Matt Williams wife? (rumors).

Can't remember his name off the top of my head, but Kevin Mitchell got after the guy in the locker room about something. The guy was a little spitfire that's for sure. I also seem to recall that Shane Spencer might have been a HS teammate as well. I'll poke around.
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Unread postby dmiles » Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:01 pm

Chad Curtis was the name I couldn't remember and I don't think he played at the same HS as Giles. I might have time to look later.
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