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Marte Tearing It Up In Buffalo

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Marte Tearing It Up In Buffalo

Unread postby Wahoot » Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:47 am

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb ... pid=429708

Last 9 games he's hitting .444 with 3 2Bs, 4 HRs, and only 4 Ks.
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Unread postby Mcreek » Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:23 am

Shapiro will now probably trade him for an aging reliever with a track record and then give Blake a Lawton type contract. That would make Wedge's day I am sure.
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Unread postby Steve Buffum » Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:56 am

That would be positively unprecendented compared to the chances that you'd make that post.
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Unread postby Prosecutor » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:31 am

If Marte keeps this up for another week they have to think about bringing him back. That would allow them to move Blake back to RF. That's a good thing, because we're getting killed offensively at that position. Nixon is down to .251 with an OPS of .685, not to mention that he's slow. Gutierrez is hitting .182, and his speed and defense doesn't make up for his bat.

It's not much better in left field, where Dellucci is hitting .238 with an OPS of .681. Michaels is the only corner outfielder who's doing anything at all (.278/.790).

Putting Marte at 3rd and Blake in RF every day would improve the defense at both positions and probably the offense, too, assuming Marte can out-produce Gutierrez and Nixon with the bat.

I'm really down on Nixon and Dellucci right now. They bring nothing in terms of hitting for average, OBP, power, defense or speed. And considering that they only hit against right-handed pitchers, their weak offensive numbers are even more discouraging. It's looking like Shapiro threw his money away in signing these guys. Same with Oldberto Hernandez, although he impressed me by striking out Ichiro last night.

By the way, what was Joel Skinner thinking when he waved Dellucci home in the 8th inning last night? It takes one hell of a fast baserunner to score from first on a double into the left field corner, and Dellucci is not fast. Skinner waved him in on Blake's double and Dellucci was out by a mile. If Skinner holds him at 3rd the score is tied with one out and the bases loaded (after they walk Hafner with first base open).

The Tribe needs to get Westbrook back, put Marte at 3rd, put Blake in right everyday, and I'd even consider bringing up Choo to play left in Dellucci's spot. At least he'd give us more speed, power, and a better throwing arm. These moves would add speed, power, and defense, even if Choo and Marte don't hit for a high average.

In the bullpen, we got Matt Miller back and I'd give him most of Hernandez's innings. And after Cabrera's three shutout innings last night, I'd try to use him regularly to see if he can get locked in. As for Borowski, all I can say is I wish Betancourt could close.
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Unread postby neoleo » Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:31 pm

Prosecutor wrote: I'm really down on Nixon and Dellucci right now. It's looking like Shapiro threw his money away in signing these guys.


They do bring valuable veteran leadership, and in Nixon's case, pennant race/post season/world series champion experience, which is greatly lacking on this team.

Prosecutor wrote: By the way, what was Joel Skinner thinking when he waved Dellucci home in the 8th inning last night? It takes one hell of a fast baserunner to score from first on a double into the left field corner, and Dellucci is not fast. Skinner waved him in on Blake's double and Dellucci was out by a mile. If Skinner holds him at 3rd the score is tied with one out and the bases loaded (after they walk Hafner with first base open).


It also takes two perfect throws to get him out, which you have to give the Mariners credit for doing. I agree, he could have played it more conservative, but I don't think it was a mental mistake (trying not to judge in hindsight). Skinner is an aggressive third base coach, and more times than not it has worked out for the Tribe. Also, Dellucci isn't a burner or a base stealer, but he is a good runner. Off the top of my head, I would rank him behind Sizemore and Barfield in terms of foot speed in the starting lineup.
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Unread postby TribeinLA » Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:00 pm

Yes! Bring him back and we can put Blake out in rf. I'm tired of Nixon and DD. Then, we can bring up Choo and keep F G and get rid of Trot and DD!

If we're not going to make any big moves and rely on simply what we have, then it makes sense to get Marte back into Ohio and eliminate the 2 for 1 bad corner OF play. Bring Choo up with him and let Choo and Michaels platoon. Even let Blake platoon a bit.

I'd like to see our batting order after the all star break be:

1. Sizemore cf
2. Blake rf
3. Hafner dh
4. V. Martinez c
5. Peralta ss
6. Garko 1b
7. Choo/Michaels lf
8. Marte 3b
9. Barfield 2b
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Unread postby Mcreek » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:09 pm

They do bring valuable veteran leadership, and in Nixon's case, pennant race/post season/world series champion experience, which is greatly lacking on this team.

Yea, works about as well as Eric Snow, David Wesley and Damon Jones have done with the Cavz :eek :shock:

Make Nixon a bench coach or motivational speaker but for the love of Pete keep him and Dellucci off the field :x :mad: :-x
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Unread postby Prosecutor » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:46 pm

It also takes two perfect throws to get him out, which you have to give the Mariners credit for doing. I agree, he could have played it more conservative, but I don't think it was a mental mistake (trying not to judge in hindsight). Skinner is an aggressive third base coach, and more times than not it has worked out for the Tribe. Also, Dellucci isn't a burner or a base stealer, but he is a good runner. Off the top of my head, I would rank him behind Sizemore and Barfield in terms of foot speed in the starting lineup.

It didn't take two "perfect" throws. Dellucci was out by ten feet. They would have gotten him even with mediocre throws. Also, the throw from the left field corner to the shortstop was a short throw. And their SS has one heck of an arm from what I saw on the throws he made to first.

With the score tied, one out, and your cleanup hitter due up, it was stupid to try and score Delooch from first. Grady or Gutierrez could have made it, but not a 32-year-old italian guy.

As for being behind only Grady and Josh in terms of foot speed, that's not saying anything. So he's faster than Victor, Pronk, Michaels, Peralta, Garko, and Blake. Wow, what a burner.
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Unread postby pup » Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:13 pm

I wish I had your optimism that Marte hitting well for a week in AAA somehow translates to him being ready for the Majors.
Home Run Leaders as RHB 5/7/13

Mark Reynolds (10)
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Unread postby neoleo » Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:41 pm

Prosecutor wrote: It didn't take two "perfect" throws. Dellucci was out by ten feet.


We have different definitions of "ten feet."

http://www.cleveland.com/cgi-bin/prxy/p ... 341/43.jpg

Prosecutor wrote: With the score tied, one out, and your cleanup hitter due up, it was stupid to try and score Delooch from first.


Hafner was getting walked either way with first open. So you're taking your chances with Peralta and Garko. Not chopped liver, but not Hafner or a cleanup hitter (not to mention Garko single handedly left 37 runners on base last night).

Prosecutor wrote: Grady or Gutierrez could have made it, but not a 32-year-old italian guy.


I'm not going there.

Prosecutor wrote:As for being behind only Grady and Josh in terms of foot speed, that's not saying anything. So he's faster than Victor, Pronk, Michaels, Peralta, Garko, and Blake. Wow, what a burner.


NEOLeo wrote:Dellucci isn't a burner or a base stealer, but he is a good runner.


Note the term good. Not burner, not fast, not speedy. . .I also wrote:

NEOLeo wrote:Off the top of my head, I would rank him behind Sizemore and Barfield in terms of foot speed in the starting lineup.


I agree, this has more to do with the lack of speed throughout the lineup, but wouldn't you want to take a chance with one of the 3 or 4 guys that actually has a chance to make it?


Scouting Report from Scouts Inc:
Baserunning & Defense
As an outfielder, Dellucci is limited to left field because of a below-average arm. He played center in an occasional pinch, but he doesn't have the range for the position or the arm for right field. Still, without fear, he'll go into the walls or dive into the gaps to make a catch. While he has just average speed, Dellucci is an aggressive runner and makes things happen on the basepaths. He has the instincts to push the envelope for extra bases.
Last edited by neoleo on Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Unread postby neoleo » Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:46 pm

Mcreek wrote:They do bring valuable veteran leadership, and in Nixon's case, pennant race/post season/world series champion experience, which is greatly lacking on this team.

Yea, works about as well as Eric Snow, David Wesley and Damon Jones have done with the Cavz :eek :shock:


Yeah, what have the Cavs ever done???
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Unread postby Prosecutor » Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:45 pm

NEOLeo, I saw the game. Dellucci was out by ten feet. The photo you linked shows the tag being applied after Dellucci slid, but it doesn't show the ball in the catcher's glove before Looch even started his slide.

The scouting report you cited correctly states that Looch has average speed. A guy with average speed isn't going to score from first on a double into the left field corner, no matter how "agressive" he is or how good his "instincts". It's just too much ground to cover in too short a time, unless the defense screws up.

If Skinner holds him at 3rd we have Peralta coming up with the bases loaded an one out. A sac fly scores the go-ahead run. But after Looch got thrown out we needed a base hit to go ahead, and didn't get it.

I was screaming for Skinner to hold him at 3rd when Ibanez picked up the ball cleanly. I could see it coming. I still can't believe Skinner sent him.
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Unread postby VultureHxC » Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:21 pm

does anyone wonder why we continue to not play young players and instead continue to get vets on the back end of their careers? the only reason some of the young guys (garko, shoppach, sowers) got to stay in the bigs this year is because they played well last year. hell, garko wasn't even getting any playing time at the beginning of the year cause they were trying to have marte play even though last season garko played leaps and bounds better than marte. shoppach gets playing time cause he's good defensively and sowers got to stay because he ended last year pitching well. yet we have (arguably) 3 major league ready OF's in AAA at the beginning of the season (choo, gutierrez, francisco) and each gets called up for a little bit of time and then doesn't even get to play that much. can they really do any worse offensively? not to mention all three have some speed and it's not like none of them play horrible defense. i know we're supposed to be contending but i'd much rather have a young guy getting experience while putting up the same production as a vet instead of the vet blocking the path and hindering the production of what could be a solid player.

(and i understand having vets with playoff experience and all that helps a little, but a roster full of trot nixon's isn't winning anyone anything. not saying trade or release them, except for dellucci, he can go, but give the young guys that are up here more playing time)
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Unread postby Prosecutor » Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:38 pm

To answer your question, vulture, I believe the Indians feel they can get at least equal production from Michaels/Dellucci/Nixon as they can get from Gutierrez/Choo/Francisco. For example, Gut is below .200 both in batting average and OBP, and he's only hitting against left-handed pitchers. Choo's numbers at Buffalo are not impressive.

The Indians management remembers how the team collapsed during the final week of the 2005 season. They felt that there wasn't enough veteran leadership. They decided they needed some guys who had been through a pennant race, or many pennant races, like Nixon for example. That was probably the thinking when they signed Aaron Boone after he hit the home run that put the Yankees in the World Series.

Gutierrez was hitting almost .350 in Buffalo but he's hitting about .150 in Cleveland. I'm not sure the young guys would produce more runs than the veterans you want to get rid of, and they definitely don't have the experience of a major league pennant race.

I just hope Dellucci and Nixon start heating up when the weather gets hot. That three-run homer by Looch last night was a good start.
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Unread postby ArtGold » Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:41 pm

I think you state the Indians thinking well, Prosecutor. I see the prospects differently myself, but I think you have expressed how they view the current situation. Maybe a successful pennant run this season would allow them to trust more of the leadership to Martinez, Sizemore etc next season.

As I said, it isn't my view of how to run the team, but I think it accurately states their decision making.
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