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Hello from a big Tribe fan from down south (LONG first post)

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Hello from a big Tribe fan from down south (LONG first post)

Unread postby TribeinLA » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:32 pm

I have been reading the STO boards for a few weeks and enjoy the crap outta reading yall. Yall are truly some knowledgeable Tribe fans. I am in Louisiana and representing. I just got back from a week's stay in Cleveland and saw both the entire DET and KC series (what a game Fri nite!). I just wanted to tell you all hello and hopefully interact with all for the remainder of the season.

Since we're all very concerned about some moves...here is what I would like to see. Feel free to tell me if I am stupid, crazy, whatever. It's a computer and I can take the heat!

1) Carl Crawford...I know, I know...been discussed, but I WANT this guy. I ate dinner at the Winking Lizard next to some Indians scouts and they told me "NO way" unless we're offering Carmona. I don't want to give up Fausto, but what about offering Marte, Michael Aubrey, Choo, and Sowers/Lee/Miller? Eh?

2) The bullpen concerns: I think if we continue to depend on guys like Mastny and Fultz and Oldberto, then we aqre in trouble against teams like Detroit and even the ChiSox. Fultz gives me fits. Betancourt is the best setup guy in the AL Central...he absolutely drives hgitters nuts with his long delivery. So who can we add? David Riske does NOT need to come back to Cleveland! Might as well bring in Mesa if we do that! I would like to see us get a long reliver/spot starter ala Brandon Mccarthy. We need someone like that. Remember back in '00 (or was it '01) when we played those 5 games in Fenway and got some great spot starting? We NEED that. Who else could fill the shoes?

3) Grady to the 3 hole: This is undoubtedly where he needs to be, which is why I want Carl C. Grady is striking out a little too much. His power and speed would be viable in the 3 hole and he could become a very, very LETHAL player (before he gets snagged by the BoSox or Yankees in 3 years). Maybe this operation doesn't start until next year, but it needs to happen. We, however, must get a leadoff guy equal to or better than Grady (and there aren't many). We don't need to downgrade the leadoff spot like we did when Shapiro gave up Crisp for J. Michaels.

4) OK SHAPIRO :twisted: ...John Hart, from my perspective (and again, tell me guys if I am off base...I am trying), was a better GM and I will always believe that. Shapiro is cheap and seems to think we can win a title with 4 really great hitters and then a bunch of average guys. I hated the Crisp deal and Marte isn't growing up like I'd hope he would. I hated the Bob Howry thing. I was furious when he dealt B. Phillips. I even got upset at the whole Belliard thing. Second base in Cleveland has been an empty spot, but for Baerag and then Alomar. David Bell and Hector Luna both stunk and Ricky Guetirrez was a horrible downgrade! Phillips was a headcase, but Mark thinks that Eric Wedge is more important to the team? I think ole dumb Charlie Manuel could manage this team just the same. I, for one, still wish we had Grover. Ok, so what is it with Shap? is he gonna get us there or is he just enjoying his box seats and ugly mug on the cameras?

5) Wedge: Has his moments...anyone else think I'm crazy when I say, "We can do better!" I am not totally against him, but seriously...what is the deal with a guy who was playing in the 1989 College World Series? What would it take to get Orel H. and Buddy B in Cleveland.

6) My take on the rest of the lineup:

1) Sizemore - already discussed

2) Blake - Err...19 game hit streak...ok...um, one hit a game...4-5 at bats. Well, I like Casey. I love how someone compared him to Nagy! I think he's producing somewhat and he had a great homestand, but is he part of the plan?

3) Hafner - Awaiting a slump to go away! How are we in first when his numbers are comparable to Blake's?

4) Victor - is it just me or is he the best thing to hit Cleveland in a long time? Wow has he matured! Hang on to this guy, Shap!

5) Jhonny - I see him being dealt (and I have no evidence to confirm what is only an assumption). He is the real deal, though. God love eye surgeons!

6) Trot - A very small, small, small scale version of what Eddie Murray was to the '95 squad. Did I say SMALL? You gotta love him. He's a scapper and a team guy, but why is he moging to first base when he have 8 other guys who can play there? What is that about...him shagging infield balls? Too slow to play RF?

7) Dellucci - 3 million for what? Seriously, what is he doing that Choo can't come up and do for a third of the money? He K's too much. He doesn't hit righties well enough. Again, am I crazy? And I like DD...he's a native of my state...but uh, what are we paying him to do?

7b) Jason Michaels - Has been a flop mostly, with shaed of brilliance from time to time. I think he's more productive than the guy above him. This lf platoon thing..again...Choo? Choo?


8) Garko - Great addition from the farm. He is going to be solid for us or he is going to be part of a blockbuster trade. He's a good hitter and a solid fielder. Coming along very well.

9) Josh B - Is just getting used to AL pitching? I love this kid's D, though. He's an undisciplined hitter and he'll be just fine. He is an upgrade from Ronnie and Hector. At least Shap pulled that one off ok after all.

So, will Joe Inglett come back or will we deal him? How about jason Stanford (where has he beeen since that great start he had aginst ChiSox 2 years ago?) and any others...????

Tribe fans. Thanks for reading this and I rely on yall a great deal when I wanna know what's up. You guys are some great fans and I have been on board with ya since '87 and I am never, never going to desert my Indians. My first vivid season was '89 when we were doing great at the AllStar Break (great = .500) and Greg Swindell was 13-2 (and got rocked when he came back from the DL). I remember thinking "Can Felix Fermin and Andy Allanson hit a HR if you combined them?" I remember ditching Joe Carter and thinking "All we got was Chris James (heh heh...little did I know)?" And then there were the comers and goers in the form of Odibe McDowell, Brad Komminsk, Stanley Jefferson, Rich Yett, Pete O'Brien, and Alex Cole! Man, have we seen some BS over the years!? Wouldn't have it any other way!

Looking fwd to talking with all of you. Thanks again and Go Indians!
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Re: Hello from a big Tribe fan from down south (LONG first p

Unread postby consigliere » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:39 am

TribeinLA wrote:I have been reading the STO boards for a few weeks and enjoy the crap outta reading yall. Yall are truly some knowledgeable Tribe fans. I am in Louisiana and representing. I just got back from a week's stay in Cleveland and saw both the entire DET and KC series (what a game Fri nite!). I just wanted to tell you all hello and hopefully interact with all for the remainder of the season.


Welcome to the boards!

1) Carl Crawford...I know, I know...been discussed, but I WANT this guy. I ate dinner at the Winking Lizard next to some Indians scouts and they told me "NO way" unless we're offering Carmona. I don't want to give up Fausto, but what about offering Marte, Michael Aubrey, Choo, and Sowers/Lee/Miller? Eh?


We've discussed Crawford in the past....he is high on everyone's wishlist that's for sure. But, it will take a lot to pry him from Tampa. I know I would love to have him, but the cost in players may be too much.

2) The bullpen concerns: I think if we continue to depend on guys like Mastny and Fultz and Oldberto, then we aqre in trouble against teams like Detroit and even the ChiSox. Fultz gives me fits. Betancourt is the best setup guy in the AL Central...he absolutely drives hgitters nuts with his long delivery. So who can we add? David Riske does NOT need to come back to Cleveland! Might as well bring in Mesa if we do that! I would like to see us get a long reliver/spot starter ala Brandon Mccarthy. We need someone like that. Remember back in '00 (or was it '01) when we played those 5 games in Fenway and got some great spot starting? We NEED that. Who else could fill the shoes?


I think you will see Shapiro go out and add one bullpen arm. Problem is, I don't see many high quality arms being available, so he'll likely be acquiring middle relief depth to replace Oldberto and/or Cabrera.

3) Grady to the 3 hole: This is undoubtedly where he needs to be, which is why I want Carl C. Grady is striking out a little too much. His power and speed would be viable in the 3 hole and he could become a very, very LETHAL player (before he gets snagged by the BoSox or Yankees in 3 years). Maybe this operation doesn't start until next year, but it needs to happen. We, however, must get a leadoff guy equal to or better than Grady (and there aren't many). We don't need to downgrade the leadoff spot like we did when Shapiro gave up Crisp for J. Michaels.


I'm not up for changing Grady's lineup slot midseason. THat is something to address maybe in the offseason. For now, I really like the 1-6 of Sizemore, Blake, Hafner, Vic, Peralta, and Garko. Still think we could use one bopper in the middle there to balance out the lineup.

4) OK SHAPIRO :twisted: ...John Hart, from my perspective (and again, tell me guys if I am off base...I am trying), was a better GM and I will always believe that. Shapiro is cheap and seems to think we can win a title with 4 really great hitters and then a bunch of average guys.


I'll disagree here.

Hart loaded up on offense, and was cheap with the pitching. One can say Shapiro is the opposite with loading up on the pitching and being cheap with the offense.

5) Wedge: Has his moments...anyone else think I'm crazy when I say, "We can do better!" I am not totally against him, but seriously...what is the deal with a guy who was playing in the 1989 College World Series? What would it take to get Orel H. and Buddy B in Cleveland.


Read the B-List......many people don't like Wedge. I am still holding out to see what happens this season before I jump on Buffum's fire Eric Wedge bandwagon.

So, will Joe Inglett come back or will we deal him? How about jason Stanford (where has he beeen since that great start he had aginst ChiSox 2 years ago?) and any others...????


You'll probably see Stanford on Thurs getting the start. Inglett won't be here unless an infielder goes down. Ryan Garko took his spot (not ROuse).
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Unread postby ArtGold » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:42 am

I'll let some of the longer time posters get into the details and alternatives, but since I'm on the computer later on the west coast I'll give you some of my impressions of the issues you mentioned:

Carl Crawford, sure, but I think you are looking at Miller plus to discuss with Tampa. I'm not willing to deal Miller nor Lofgren at this time. Also not sure of Indians willingness to pay to keep him at least five years, making a deal worthwhile.

Bullpen, I agree we could use one more arm out there, Perez seems like he may be a fit and some veterans like Isringhausen or Reyes may be available for an acceptable cost.

Grady is a power hitting lead off hitter, and I see no better alternative on the current squad. Sure, I would love to have a Brett Butler type of leadoff hitter, but that doesn't appear to be on the horizon with the implosion of Trevor Crowe this season.

Shapiro is OK in my view, not great but pretty good. The budget is set by Dolan, and I have not been happy with some of the investments, especially the corner OF'ers and bullpen. Also, the drafts have not produced much, as discussed in another thread on this board, so I won't rehash here. Phillips, Guthrie and Taveras among others appear to be players for which we didn't provide adequate opportunity nor roster management (like trade them for some value). But a lot of folks see this differently.

Wedge is OK to me, but he seems to have good relationship with some players and rocky with others. I didn't like his handling of Carmona, and didn't understand why it was so difficult to keep him in the rotation spot he clearly earned. But overall I think he does a decent management job.

On the rest of your stuff, generally see your points with a couple of differences. I think they keep Peralta, he may move to 3rd if A Cabrera keeps progressing at Akron and Marte doesn't establish himself in Cleveland. At short or 3rd, I think he'll be around for at least a few years.

While I like Inglett too, in fairness he has somewhat limited range at 2nd, and insufficient arm for short or 3rd. Perhaps a corner OF with a high OBP, but we already have a minor league logjam there (Francisco, Choo, Barton, Gutierrez and Snyder).

Hopefully, they will make some decent decisions and make good use of their players, either through use or trade. Turning back the clock to your 1989 period, view Joe Inglett as Tommy Hinzo, Trot Nixon as Pete O'Brien and Jeremy Sowers as Bud Black (222 innings and 88 Ks) and you will see some parallels (I think Sowers will be fine, just like Black).

BTW, in 1989 Albert (Joey) Belle hit .225 with an OBP of .269 and 7 HRs in 218 Plate Appearances, so sometimes you get to see a little growth if you're patient!
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Unread postby TribeinLA » Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:59 am

Great reponses. I can tell one thing and that is we are all some passionate Indians fans and God bless us. Even though we disagree, we can still be fans of an exciting team.

I am very hopeful that we can "get by" (make 1st or WC) and only have to add maybe no more than 3 new key figures (if it were up to me, I'd sell the farm for Crawford in some multi-way deal and fork over a pitcher, Marte, and a guy like Inglett or Choo. I also want to add a better LHRP option than Fultz. Betancourt is solid and reminds me of a situation like Mike Jackson, when the setup guy is better than the closer. I suppose Borowski, speaking of, will do well enough. Mastny will need a tuneup and brief stop at Buffalo. I think that Oldberto will be released after a couple of guys like Perez and Miller settle in. If Jason Stanford comes back and doesn't land a spot in the 5 man, I'd like to see him in the pen as long relief. I think it's obvious, however, that this pen is clearly three times as good as what we had last year. I was so sick of seeing Danny Jackson. I wouldn't mind if Saurbeck was still around (what happened?) I'd like to see us pick up Gagne or Percival. Borowski worth dealing, yall think? Does he have any value?

I think we're the third best team in the AL, but far behind both Boston and LA. The records may not indicate much of a change, but I am very impessed with the Angels...their pitching depth and their scary hitting would be a tough plaoff game. Boston is still #1 in my book, but they look suspect sometimes. I think Detroit will be tough to beat. What's the consensus here? I think we need to make sure the Yankees and A's stay average. Oakland always gets hot in the summer (and the other kind of hot) and the Yankees are still the Yankees. I guess pick your poison: a) win the division and play the Angels. Get the WC and play Boston. I like Sabathia and Carmona to match Beckett/"Dice K", Verlander/Bonderman, or Lackey/Weaver/whoever. I am just very, very concerned with Jake coming back and hopefully not doing his Cliff Lee impersonation (50/50), nor am I comfortable with a Buffalo arm manning the 5 spot. Having watched Byrd pitch since he was a Freshman at LSU, I like him in big games and hate him in series against the likes of KC and Texas. I like him in a playoff atmosphere as our 3, though. If Sabathia or carmona goes on the DL, God forbid, I think we'd be in major crap, unless Hafner started hitting .400 with 15 HR's in a month.

I think you make a great point about Hart loading up on offense and Shap making it the other way around, but so far John has more results to back him. I hope that changes. That '95 team won't be duplicated, so I will agree that pitching is more important. How often does a team score 7.5 runs a contest?

BTW, in 1989 Albert (Joey) Belle hit .225 with an OBP of .269 and 7 HRs in 218 Plate Appearances, so sometimes you get to see a little growth if you're patient!


One of the BIG reasons I became a fan of Cleveland (aside from my dad's heritage). I watched Joey play at LSU and was just interested in the way he played the game. He was one intense mutha and was a blast to watch hit. I was very happy when he was called up and very disheartened when he got into all of the mess from hsi short '90 season until the end of '91. It just seems like when they got that new stadium, all of the BS went with the old one. Albert, though....sheesh.
I agree though, 100 percent. I suppose Marte will definitely get better...just wanted bigger payoff for Crisp. Michaels had me constantly wondering if Shap had actually in fact gone f'ing looney.
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Unread postby Mcreek » Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:57 am

6) Trot - A very small, small, small scale version of what Eddie Murray was to the '95 squad. Did I say SMALL? You gotta love him. He's a scapper and a team guy, but why is he moging to first base when he have 8 other guys who can play there? What is that about...him shagging infield balls? Too slow to play RF?

7) Dellucci - 3 million for what? Seriously, what is he doing that Choo can't come up and do for a third of the money? He K's too much. He doesn't hit righties well enough. Again, am I crazy? And I like DD...he's a native of my state...but uh, what are we paying him to do?

7b) Jason Michaels - Has been a flop mostly, with shaed of brilliance from time to time. I think he's more productive than the guy above him. This lf platoon thing..again...Choo? Choo?


Right here is the problem. Too think that we once had Belle and Ramirez in our corner outfield or even Justic and Ramirez in 1997 and now we have three light hitting athletically challenged meatballs in Trot Nixon, Dellucci and Michaels makes me want to barf. Sadly we have better more athletic players sittin g in Buffalo in Francisco and Choo and Guiterrez here sitting on the bench. The FO appoloigists will say 'well we are in first place so don't rock the boat by playing a bunch of rookies while trying to contend. Well at the moment none of these three mediocre aging no talent stiff-bags are contributing anything other than throwing pies at each other during television interviews. I'm quite sure that Choo-FG or Francisco can match the pathetic numbers that these three stooges are posting while providing a huge upgrade on the basepaths and defensively however this manager and GM love aging-mediocre vets like the aformentioned b/c of this nonsense of veteran leadership. Nixon has nuthing left, he has no pop whatsoever, can't even move in the outfield , cloggs the bases, draws an occasional walk but thats it. Shapiro dearly loves this guy so expect him to play the rest of the year no matter what type of numbers he posts b/c his veteran leadership compensates for his atrociouse play. We have Charlie Manuel to thank for the glowing endorsment on two former Philly players Michaels/Dellucci :-( :sad: :(



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Unread postby intenso » Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:55 am

TribeinLA wrote:One of the BIG reasons I became a fan of Cleveland (aside from my dad's heritage). I watched Joey play at LSU and was just interested in the way he played the game. He was one intense mutha and was a blast to watch hit. I was very happy when he was called up and very disheartened when he got into all of the mess from hsi short '90 season until the end of '91. It just seems like when they got that new stadium, all of the BS went with the old one. Albert, though....sheesh.



You a big LSU baseball fan?
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Unread postby TribeinLA » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:40 am

You a big LSU baseball fan?


Yeah. I graduated from LSU and am a big fan in all sports. LSU baseball changed with the new bat size rule. Skip Bertman used to play a style of ball called "Gorilla ball", where we would just outclub opponents. We did have some great pitching - Chad Ogea, paul Byrd, Mike Sirotka, Brian Tallet, Ben McDonald, Russ Springer, Curt Leskanic, etc. If you look at LSU's 1997 team, though, and the amount of HR's they hit....sick and will never ever happen again.




We have Charlie Manuel to thank for the glowing endorsment on two former Philly players Michaels/Dellucci


Ole Charlie...the biggest mistake we ever made by promoting him. Michaels filling in for Crisp had to be the reason why we lost more games than we won...that and our bullpen who blew leads as we had no Bob Howry. These corner outfielders you mention...great point. It really does take remembering the studs we had out there in the corners and look at what we have now. I think Nixon can teach guys like Franklin and Choo how to fight and how to chew tobacco, but hopefully he leaves them alone when it comes to hitting. Dellucci was a dumb, very dumb move and beating Detroit with 5 runs in the 9th doesn't buy him a pass. He is guaranteed a K per game. It's like watching Peralta last year, but worse. The same for Michaels, who has made some great defensive plays and then some awful ones. Then he gives that "helpless little boy who crapped his pants and realizes he's in trouble" look. Then, take into account that DD nor Trot can hit righties. Take into account that Michaels can't either. We have no less, usually, then two lefties in the lineup who can't hit. I think Shap thinks guys like Garko are going to make up for the poor hitting. What the hell is Trot doing hitting in the 5 spot above Jhonny anyway, Wedge?

It was become clear to me that Nixon will not be an Indian after this season. The more and more playing time that Franklin G gets, the more chance he has to solidify that spot. I still think Shapiro is a dope for either having to rely on Buffalo or overpaid B players like Nixon and Dellucci.

Guys, I really think C Crawford deal needs to happen. Do what you gotta do. We get him and we can outslug the competition and have CC, Carmona, and one of the other guuys bail us out. See if the Devil Rays would be interested in taking Nixon, Dellucci, and Michaels! :lol: Crawford, Sizemore, and Choo/Frank G - there's an unbelievable outfield.
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Unread postby intenso » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:55 am

TribeinLA wrote:
You a big LSU baseball fan?


Yeah. I graduated from LSU and am a big fan in all sports. LSU baseball changed with the new bat size rule. Skip Bertman used to play a style of ball called "Gorilla ball", where we would just outclub opponents. We did have some great pitching - Chad Ogea, paul Byrd, Mike Sirotka, Brian Tallet, Ben McDonald, Russ Springer, Curt Leskanic, etc. If you look at LSU's 1997 team, though, and the amount of HR's they hit....sick and will never ever happen again.





I'm an Arkansas fan and a huge college baseball fan. No kidding on the absolute mashers LSU had in those days. Hog fans still talk about the one Brandon Larson hit OVER the batter's eye in centerfield at Baum.

What do you think of what Paul Mainieri has done so far? The SEC is so competitive these days.

I might have to come down to BR next year before they tear down the Box.
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Unread postby TribeinLA » Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:19 pm

Pig Sooooooooooooooooooooooey, Intenso. I could talk all 3 sports with you when it comes to LSU and the Hogs.

Brandon larson relied on a club for a bat and the lowkey at the time steroid use. He hit 40 HR's and now look at him...washed up big time and never got off the ground. That team also had 7 other guys who hit double-digit homers. Our leadoff guy, danny Higgins, had 11!

As for "Paul Ball" - not liking it so far, but as long as that fat buffoon Smoke Laval was canned, anything has an upside. Paul has run off/cleaned out a lot of holdover players. he wants it his way or no way. He is going to have to get us quickly rebuilt. LSU has missed the postseason 2 seasons in a row now. Our best players are freshmen and sophs. I want to say about 8 guys have left the team since the '07 season began in February. LSU has to get back on the map!

Arky is in good hands with Van Horne. I wish we had him.
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Unread postby swerb » Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:25 pm

TribeinLA, welcome to the boards brotha. Wish I had more time to reply to your excellent post, but it was fun to read.

Welcome to the group. We're developing a very nice core of solid posters. And good, good people. It's exciting.

Looking forward to hopefully reading your contributions in the college sports forum as college football season approaches as welll ....
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Re: Hello from a big Tribe fan from down south (LONG first p

Unread postby Wahoot » Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:41 pm

TribeinLA wrote:7b) Jason Michaels - Has been a flop mostly, with shaed of brilliance from time to time. I think he's more productive than the guy above him. This lf platoon thing..again...Choo? Choo?


First off, welcome to the board.

But why-oh-why do you think Jason Michaels has been a "flop"? In limited play (tough to stay sharp), here are the numbers he's posted this year:

AVG
.279

OBP
.339

SLUG
.462

OPS
.801

That ain't bad!
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Unread postby TribeinLA » Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:18 am

Thanks fellas and I appreciate this forum a whole lot. There's not a lot of people, but the best thing is that people listen and respect opinions - no matter if they are different. I do hope to talk MLB and college hoops and football with all of you.


Addressing the Jason Michaels bit...

He's not a bad player by any means. He's not awful like a lot of AL outfielders seem to have gotten. But so far, we've lost in the Coco Crisp experiment. Marte has yet to pay dividends and it's still early, but he needs to be ready. Crisp following Sizemore was just sick. We slacked off significantly with Michaels and his #'s weren't all that bad. Was it because M.S. was a cheapo, tightwad? Didn't want to pay Coco Crisp 3 million litle ole dollars a year? Great...also bring in Eduardo Perez. He'll win us a Central. 8) :cool: 8-)

Jason is also a platooner. Coco Crisp was not. Coco was basically mimicing Sizemore, evn though Grady was nowhere near the talent he is now. That amzing strecth we had from July to September in '05 was just short of magical. Damn, we were hot and just missed...much the same way we did in 2000. Jason is just not a guy that I can see Joe Buck and Tim McCarver dissecting in the World Series because teams that have lineups with guys like he and DD and Nixon don't go to World Series. I hate to be critical, but Shapiro, in my opinion, lost big time on that deal. I don't but the whole "We can't afford Coco Crisp" bit. I was very, very bitter about that release. Coco has found a home in Boston. Michaels will play for three more teams over the next three years and then stick a fork in him.

The final thing I will say is this: Michaels tries. I don't believe at all that he's a poor person, nor player. He crushes on left handers. He can be clutch. He is someone I wouldn't mind having be our modern version of Alvaro Espinoza. I don't like he and Dellucci and Nixon platooning. It totally shows that those three equal one Manny Ramirez or Magglio Ordonez. Juan Gonzales style "2001" is what we need.
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Unread postby Wahoot » Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:16 am

TribeinLA wrote:Jason is also a platooner. Coco Crisp was not. Coco was basically mimicing Sizemore, evn though Grady was nowhere near the talent he is now. That amzing strecth we had from July to September in '05 was just short of magical. Damn, we were hot and just missed...much the same way we did in 2000. Jason is just not a guy that I can see Joe Buck and Tim McCarver dissecting in the World Series because teams that have lineups with guys like he and DD and Nixon don't go to World Series. I hate to be critical, but Shapiro, in my opinion, lost big time on that deal. I don't but the whole "We can't afford Coco Crisp" bit. I was very, very bitter about that release. Coco has found a home in Boston. Michaels will play for three more teams over the next three years and then stick a fork in him.

The final thing I will say is this: Michaels tries. I don't believe at all that he's a poor person, nor player. He crushes on left handers. He can be clutch. He is someone I wouldn't mind having be our modern version of Alvaro Espinoza. I don't like he and Dellucci and Nixon platooning. It totally shows that those three equal one Manny Ramirez or Magglio Ordonez. Juan Gonzales style "2001" is what we need.


You may want to check Crisp's stats since we traded him to the BoSox. I know he was hurt last year, but 2005 may turn out to be Coco's career year. He's not 25 anymore.

As for Michaels not being the kind of player you see on a World Series roster, I kindly suggest you review your World Series rosters. Tony Pena caught 78 games for the Tribe in '95, and he was offensive black hole. What Shapiro's done with the outfield is logically sound IMO. Peter at TRIBE SCRIBE sums it up well:

Mark Shapiro has found an inefficiency in the market for hitters: players with big platoon splits tend to be underpriced. Thus, for less than half of the price of Carlos Lee (865 OPS over the last three years), the Indians can have a left field platoon of David Dellucci (875 OPS against righties) and Jason Michaels (829 OPS against lefties). Never mind the additional money Lee will receive, or the fact that he will be under contract until he’s about 60 years old –- the numbers suggest that a Michaels/Dellucci platoon should be as good as Lee this year.


Unfortunately, Dellucci is sucking the big one so far. But there's a method behind this madness.
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Unread postby TribeinLA » Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:39 am

But there's a method behind this madness.


Yes. It's called being cheap and Mark is the man when it comes to it.

I think the comparison to Pena is a lil off, but I see what you're saying. This platooning bit is just an excuse for not spending money on a guy like Carlos Lee and the "2=1" deal doesn't always work like that.
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Unread postby Wahoot » Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:34 pm

TribeinLA wrote:Yes. It's called being cheap and Mark is the man when it comes to it.


It sounds like you're starting to wander outside the realms of baseball analysis.

Why the cheap shots at Shapiro? What leads you to believe that the guy is intentionally fouling up the team by not spending enough money? Are you sure he wasn't given budget constraints by Dolan and is trying to work creatively within them?
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