Text Size

Cleveland Indians & MLB

Minor League Notes 6/9

Talk Tribe, talk baseball in this forum.

Moderators: peeker643, swerb, pup, paulcousineau

Minor League Notes 6/9

Unread postby consigliere » Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:26 am

Just thought I'd share some notes, a lot happened yesterday and my next report won't be out for almost a week:

- Kinston scored 21 runs last night....Chris Gimenez with 2 HR and 7 RBI....Max Ramirez another HR...and John Drennan goes deep too and slowly starting to heat up.

- Westbrook was knocked around again last night. At Akron for his 2nd rehab start, goes 2.1 innings and gives up 4 runs on 5 hits and 3 walks.

- Akron catcher Javi Herrera was traded. For who or what I dunno.

- Michael Aubrey has been called up to Akron, and likely is made official today. He is currently in Akron and was at the game last night. In 13 games at Kinston, he hit .400/5/11.

- Chuck Lofgren made a spot start at Buffalo....went 5 innings and gave up 6 runs....although did strikeout 7.

- Ben Francisco's 19-game hit streak ended.

- Bill Selby was elected to the Buffalo Bison Hall of Fame. Yes. I am not making that up.

- Matt Whitney hit a 2-out 9th inning walk-off 2-run homer for Lake County to win it 5-4.

- Max Ramirez (C), Chris Gimenez (UT), David Huff (LHP) and Frank Hermann (RHP) were named to the Carolina League AS Game.
Indians Prospect Insider: http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/
Image
User avatar
consigliere
 
Posts: 10822
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:22 am
Location: Painesville Twp, OH
Favorite Player: Jeff Stevens
Least Favorite Player: Carl Willis

Unread postby MadThinker88 » Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:36 pm

I heard on another board that Herrera was dealt to the Nationals organization.

Considering he had been passed on the projection/depth chart by Max Ramierez and Toregas and all 3 are up for Rule 5 after this season, I can't say I was surprised to hear Herrera was dealt.
MadThinker88
In Tressel We Trust
 
Posts: 2634
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:01 am

Unread postby consigliere » Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:38 pm

Yeah, he was dealt to Washington. But, dunno what the trade parameters are. Probably just a cash deal.
Indians Prospect Insider: http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/
Image
User avatar
consigliere
 
Posts: 10822
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:22 am
Location: Painesville Twp, OH
Favorite Player: Jeff Stevens
Least Favorite Player: Carl Willis

Re: Minor League Notes 6/9

Unread postby Mcreek » Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:05 pm

Consigliere wrote:Just thought I'd share some notes, a lot happened yesterday and my next report won't be out for almost a week:

- Akron catcher Javi Herrera was traded. For who or what I dunno..


Another Mirabelli special. I guy that couldn't even hit in college but gets drafted relatively high
User avatar
Mcreek
 
Posts: 1439
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:57 pm
Location: Venice, Florida

Unread postby ArtGold » Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:49 pm

For a historical perspective for a second (since we are discussing his release and he was a high draft pick), here are the Indians picks in the first five rounds by year, 1996-2003. I use this period because those are the players who should be significant major leaguers by now or on the verge of making the majors:

1996
Danny Peoples, Ryan McDermott, Jarrod Mays, JD Brammer, Grant Sharpe

1997
Tim Drew, Jason Fitzgerald, Edgar Cruz, Rob Vael, Rob Pugmire, Eric Thompson, Jon Hamilton

1998
CC Sabathia, Zach Sorensen, Todd Pratt, Ron Marietta, Ryan Dreese

1999
Will Hartley, Eric Johnson, Jeff Baker, Curtis Gay

2000
Corey Smith, Derek Thompson, Brian Tallet, Kenneth Folsom, Sean Swedlow, Adam Cox, Rashad Eldridge

2001
Dan Denham, Alan Horne, JD Martin, Mike Conroy, Jake Dittler, Nick Moran, Travis Foley, Marco Mendoza

2002
Jeremy Guthrie, Matt Whitney, Micah Schilling, Brian Slocum, Pat Osborn, Jason Cooper, Dan Cevette, Fernando Pacheco, Louis Francisco

2003
Mike Aubrey, Brad Snyder, Adam Miller, Javier Herrera, Ryan Garko, Ben Harrison, Juan Valdes

I excluded anything beyond the first 5 rounds because now you are getting into elements of luck instead of insights, and anything past 2003 because we are still speculating about those players, not really getting a fair comprehensive read on them yet.

Understanding that some players struggle due to injuries, which may not be predictable, do you really think this list constitutes a successful talent evaluation program? If you were the CEO of this organization, wouldn't you at least be critically evaluating your talent evaluation or talent development process? Yet, they eliminated their Venezuelan team (due to political unrest) and one of their two Dominican League teams.

I know some folks don't agree with me about this, but I still believe the main recent (past couple of years) objective is cost containment in player development and procurement. I believe this past draft continues to meet that objective.
ArtGold
 
Posts: 1182
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 10:52 pm
Location: Sacramento, Ca

Unread postby consigliere » Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:29 pm

Art, I agree that what they have done in the first few rounds for about the past decade has been pretty brutal. Imagine if they'd have just hit on another 4-5 guys during that time period? Just awful.

Not sure I blame it on cost containment though. The Indians spend in the top 3-5 player development.
Indians Prospect Insider: http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/
Image
User avatar
consigliere
 
Posts: 10822
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:22 am
Location: Painesville Twp, OH
Favorite Player: Jeff Stevens
Least Favorite Player: Carl Willis

Unread postby ArtGold » Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:44 pm

I have read that before, about the expenditures. What are these costs and how do they compare to other teams? Is this total player development cost, or signing players, and does it include foreign players?

Not doubting your word Tony, but I haven't seen anything analytical supporting this contention when I have previously read it in other places.
ArtGold
 
Posts: 1182
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 10:52 pm
Location: Sacramento, Ca

Unread postby consigliere » Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:56 pm

Per the Indians 2007 Media Guide:

Scouting and Player Development Expenditures:
(number in parentheses is rank among MLB, number next to it is what the highest spending team spent)

2000: 18M (6th, 23.5M)
2001: 21M (2nd, 24M)
2002: 22M (2nd, 22.5M)
2003: 22.5M (3rd, 23M)
2004: 22.5M (5th, 25.5M)
2005: 22.5M (3rd, 24.5M)
2006: 23.5M (3rd, 25M)

(this is graphed and no exact number given, so I am going by eye on the number on the graph)

This is taken right from the media guide: The average spending per year under Dolan ownership in Player Development has been more than 22.5M, which is 27% higher than the ML team average.
Indians Prospect Insider: http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/
Image
User avatar
consigliere
 
Posts: 10822
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:22 am
Location: Painesville Twp, OH
Favorite Player: Jeff Stevens
Least Favorite Player: Carl Willis

Unread postby consigliere » Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:57 pm

And, from what I understand, "scouting and player devlopment" covers signings, scouting, foreign FAs, etc.
Indians Prospect Insider: http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/
Image
User avatar
consigliere
 
Posts: 10822
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:22 am
Location: Painesville Twp, OH
Favorite Player: Jeff Stevens
Least Favorite Player: Carl Willis

Unread postby swerb » Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:21 pm

ArtGold wrote:For a historical perspective for a second (since we are discussing his release and he was a high draft pick), here are the Indians picks in the first five rounds by year, 1996-2003. I use this period because those are the players who should be significant major leaguers by now or on the verge of making the majors:

1996
Danny Peoples, Ryan McDermott, Jarrod Mays, JD Brammer, Grant Sharpe

1997
Tim Drew, Jason Fitzgerald, Edgar Cruz, Rob Vael, Rob Pugmire, Eric Thompson, Jon Hamilton

1998
CC Sabathia, Zach Sorensen, Todd Pratt, Ron Marietta, Ryan Dreese

1999
Will Hartley, Eric Johnson, Jeff Baker, Curtis Gay

2000
Corey Smith, Derek Thompson, Brian Tallet, Kenneth Folsom, Sean Swedlow, Adam Cox, Rashad Eldridge

2001
Dan Denham, Alan Horne, JD Martin, Mike Conroy, Jake Dittler, Nick Moran, Travis Foley, Marco Mendoza

2002
Jeremy Guthrie, Matt Whitney, Micah Schilling, Brian Slocum, Pat Osborn, Jason Cooper, Dan Cevette, Fernando Pacheco, Louis Francisco

2003
Mike Aubrey, Brad Snyder, Adam Miller, Javier Herrera, Ryan Garko, Ben Harrison, Juan Valdes

I excluded anything beyond the first 5 rounds because now you are getting into elements of luck instead of insights, and anything past 2003 because we are still speculating about those players, not really getting a fair comprehensive read on them yet.

Understanding that some players struggle due to injuries, which may not be predictable, do you really think this list constitutes a successful talent evaluation program? If you were the CEO of this organization, wouldn't you at least be critically evaluating your talent evaluation or talent development process? Yet, they eliminated their Venezuelan team (due to political unrest) and one of their two Dominican League teams.

I know some folks don't agree with me about this, but I still believe the main recent (past couple of years) objective is cost containment in player development and procurement. I believe this past draft continues to meet that objective.

Art, thanks for posting. That is a scary track record of draft day incompentency .... good god.

CC, Adam Miller, Garko, and 47 busts.
"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

http://www.twitter.com/theclevelandfan
User avatar
swerb
JoBu's bee-yotch
 
Posts: 17919
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:04 pm
Location: Twinsburg, OH
Favorite Player: Mango Hab
Least Favorite Player: Bob LaMonte

Unread postby ArtGold » Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:28 am

Thanks Tony, looking at the information from 2001, and figuring a 3% inflation rate, our spending has actually decreased during Dolan's tenure. A $21 M expenditure in 2001 would equate to a $24.3 million expenditure in 2006, vs the $23.5 million we spent. But if other clubs aren't increasing either, our comparative position wouldn't erode.

Not to come of like the old TV detective Columbo, but in 2006 we had an additional farm club, so how do the cost only go up so little between 2005 and 2006?

BTW - Thanks for the great site guys, on top of the great daily articles, the information discussions are very informative. Glad you have the nerve to take on Nosco for some columns, though I don't always agree with him I like his independent critical thinking. Independent thinking seems to permeate the entire site! My favorite aspect of the site is that it not only informs, it encourages you to think. I was beginning to believe that was a lost art.
Last edited by ArtGold on Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
ArtGold
 
Posts: 1182
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 10:52 pm
Location: Sacramento, Ca

Unread postby captain_wahoo » Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:33 am

Wow that is some terrible drafting. Are we sure that Carmen Policy and Butch Davis weren't working for the Indians??
captain_wahoo
 
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:42 pm

Unread postby ArtGold » Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:35 am

It is a lot scarier when you lay it out like that. Kind of makes you wonder why we are paying for talent scouts instead of drafting off of a standard listing from a scouting service.

If I were CEO, we would be discussing this and making some significant changes.
ArtGold
 
Posts: 1182
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 10:52 pm
Location: Sacramento, Ca

Unread postby consigliere » Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:59 am

ArtGold wrote:BTW - Thanks for the great site guys, on top of the great daily articles, the information discussions are very informative. Glad you have the nerve to take on Nosco for some columns, though I don't always agree with him I like his independent critical thinking. Independent thinking seems to permeate the entire site! My favorite aspect of the site is that it not only informs, it encourages you to think. I was beginning to believe that was a lost art.


Thank Rich (Swerb). He had an idea, and took off with it. This site is his brainchild....of course, it is a two-way street as if it weren't for some great writers, it wouldn't be what the site is today.

As for Denny.....I was going to try and do a draft preview and recap, but said the perfect man for such a project would be Denny. THat was a great preview he did, and I look forward to the recap (curious to see if he plays nice, of rips the org :twisted: )
Indians Prospect Insider: http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/
Image
User avatar
consigliere
 
Posts: 10822
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:22 am
Location: Painesville Twp, OH
Favorite Player: Jeff Stevens
Least Favorite Player: Carl Willis

Unread postby ArtGold » Sun Jun 10, 2007 1:10 pm

I look forward to that recap too. It should be interesting (and generate some discussion).
ArtGold
 
Posts: 1182
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 10:52 pm
Location: Sacramento, Ca


Return to Cleveland Indians & MLB

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 181 on Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:50 pm

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest