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Troy Percival and other potential fixes for the Indians

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Troy Percival and other potential fixes for the Indians

Unread postby consigliere » Fri May 18, 2007 6:57 pm

Not sure I would be interested in Percival or not.....but here is a column from Ken Rosenthal:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6819664

Former closer Percival thinking about return
Posted: 10 hours ago

The four-time All-Star closer, who retired as an Angel on Opening Day, resumed throwing about a month ago and is serious about reviving his major-league career, according to his agent, Paul Cohen.

"If you would have asked me in spring training or April the likelihood of him coming back, I would have said 10 percent," Cohen told FOXSports.com. "I would say now it's 50-50."

Percival, 37, has not pitched since July 2005 due to an injury to his right forearm. But he recently tested his arm by throwing six straight days and reached 97 mph, Cohen said.

Given the scarcity of quality relief pitching in the majors, it seems almost certain that a team would take a chance on Percival, who earned 324 saves in his 11-year career.

Percival saved Games 2, 6 and 7 of the 2002 World Series to help the Angels win their only Series title. His competitiveness and toughness made him a favorite of teammates.

"When he threw six days in a row, he was pain-free," Cohen said. "He would not have walked away from the game if he had been healthy. He's a guy who had to be dragged off the field."


Also, Rosenthal gives some names of potential guys that could be available.....Texiera, Crawford, Sosa, etc....I'm interested in Crawford and Texeira very much:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6810676

Sowers, Marte and a mid-level prospect for Crawford?
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Unread postby StewieG » Fri May 18, 2007 7:06 pm

Anyone think Sowers/Westbrook/Byrd, Garko, and someone like Lofgren would get us Texiera? Is that too much? Not enough?
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Unread postby consigliere » Fri May 18, 2007 7:10 pm

I'd pay more to get Crawford simply because he is locked into his deal for two years longer than Tex.

I'm fine with giving up Sowers/Byrd, a young hitter like Marte/Garko, and a pitching prospect no named Lofgren or Miller for Crawford.
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Unread postby StewieG » Fri May 18, 2007 7:13 pm

Yeah, I wouldn't bitch much if we got either Crawford or Texiera.

Ok, that's a lie. I wouldn't bitch at all.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Fri May 18, 2007 9:56 pm

If I said it once, I've said it a thousand times - the Rays are not going to give up Crawford at this point. They may look into during the offseason, but they will not pursue trades unless they are blown away this year.

Lofgren/Miller/Garko/Marte would get you Crawford. Nothing less.
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Unread postby swerb » Fri May 18, 2007 11:10 pm

Sowers, Marte and a mid-level prospect for Crawford?

Joey Crawford maybe. If you want Carl Crawford, it's gonna take a helluva lot more than that.
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Unread postby consigliere » Fri May 18, 2007 11:18 pm

Swerb wrote:
Sowers, Marte and a mid-level prospect for Crawford?

Joey Crawford maybe. If you want Carl Crawford, it's gonna take a helluva lot more than that.


Rosenthal doesn't think so:

Here's a thought: Crawford to the Angels for Class AAA left-hander Joe Saunders, infielder Erick Aybar and a lower-level Grade A prospect

Is Saunders that much better than Sowers? Aybar that much better than Marte?
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Unread postby Dozen » Sat May 19, 2007 12:07 am

I will say one thing here, isnt it nice to be talking like this again! (rulz) Has Dozen caught the tribe fever? :eek: :o :-o
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Sat May 19, 2007 12:36 am

Consigliere wrote:Rosenthal doesn't think so:

Here's a thought: Crawford to the Angels for Class AAA left-hander Joe Saunders, infielder Erick Aybar and a lower-level Grade A prospect

Is Saunders that much better than Sowers? Aybar that much better than Marte?


It's all idle banter. I still talk to some of the D-Rays people who are in places where they know these things. Crawford is one of the main draws for the few people who are regulars. They will not trade him unless they get four players with great potential. Stu Sternberg has mandated this. They'll listen to you, but it is not happening.

If he could have been had for Saunders, Aybar, and a A-ball guy then do you really think he'd still be in TB? The Indians would have already done the deal involving Sowers if it were available. The Rays want far more than anyone is willing to give. GMs still call and the Rays still listen and say no. They sometimes laugh.

At this point the Rays will not trade any of their young bats for starters unless they get two top-of-the-rotation guys in return at least. They have three starters who's futures they believe in in AAA: Niemann, Sonnanstine, and Hammel. They plan on addressing the bullpen in the offseason and possibly making some trades down the road, but they're not giving up anyone like Crawford for bullpen help.

They also are planning on extending Crawford. They've talked about and are willing to spend the money.

Crawford is not leaving Tampa Bay this season. If he does leave he will leave in the offseason or before the trade deadline next year due to no extension being signed.
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Unread postby tribefan333 » Sat May 19, 2007 6:20 pm

A mid-level prospect? No. Here's a deal I would do and I think would be pretty close.

Now if we got Crawford, he would have to lead off and put Grady's power at 2nd in the lineup before Hafner. Or even move Hafner to cleanup, and just have it so Grady has more guys on base. Either way, it works out well. If Crawford can bat leadoff, with his contract, I'd do this.

Sowers, Marte, Barton. Barton is a very top OF prospect of ours but is a risk--Has been ranked in the top 100 before, so he's a solid prospect.

In return I'd also like a mid-starting pitching prospect. We have Lofgren, but another arm can't hurt in Buffalo or Akron.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Sat May 19, 2007 6:37 pm

tribefan333 wrote:A mid-level prospect? No. Here's a deal I would do and I think would be pretty close.

Now if we got Crawford, he would have to lead off and put Grady's power at 2nd in the lineup before Hafner. Or even move Hafner to cleanup, and just have it so Grady has more guys on base. Either way, it works out well. If Crawford can bat leadoff, with his contract, I'd do this.


Crawford has dramatically improved his OBP this year, but he's traditionally not what I'd want out of a leadoff hitter. He's not coming to Cleveland anyways, as I have said 1,000 times, so don't get any hopes up. Everyone assumes they can just sucker the D-Rays into a trade. The Rays ALWAYS ask for the sky in trades. They did it under Chuck LaMar and they continue to do it under Friedman.

Sowers, Marte, Barton. Barton is a very top OF prospect of ours but is a risk--Has been ranked in the top 100 before, so he's a solid prospect.

In return I'd also like a mid-starting pitching prospect. We have Lofgren, but another arm can't hurt in Buffalo or Akron.


That offer would get laughed at.

The Rays MIGHT do it for Carmona and Miller.

Why do you think they'd take junk like Sowers? Have you seen his last few outings? His K-Rate is lower than Joe DiMaggio's heartrate.

Marte has yet to show anything at the MLB level and Barton has some potential, but why do the D-Rays need another bloody outfielder?

My guess from talking to some of the Rays guys is that they'd start by asking for Carmona, ask for Lofgren or Miller to be included with Fausto, and then want Garko thrown in for good measure. They might take Mulhern instead, but they'll want two primo pitchers.

Carl Crawford is not going anywhere unless someone pays out the nose for him. Mark Shapiro is not into paying out the nose for players.
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Unread postby tribefan333 » Sat May 19, 2007 7:18 pm

Why would we trade probably the front of our rotation for one outfielder?

Never in my right mind would I send Sowers, Miller, Carmona, Lofgren, or any combo of the two for Crawford without getting a top pitching prospect back. Never.
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Unread postby KChmura » Sat May 19, 2007 7:25 pm

tribefan333 wrote:Why would we trade probably the front of our rotation for one outfielder?

Never in my right mind would I send Sowers, Miller, Carmona, Lofgren, or any combo of the two for Crawford without getting a top pitching prospect back. Never.



i agree with that
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Unread postby StewieG » Sat May 19, 2007 7:30 pm

I'd absolutely love to get Crawford, and if we could hornswaggle them, I'd do it. But I think the price for him is going to be too high.

In terms of trades, I would include Lofgren in a trade that's going to get us significantly better. The window of opportunity for this team is very high the next two years, with pretty much everyone of importance being controlled by this team until at least then. Lofgren won't give us significant help in that time, thus I would have no problem trading him for someone who can.

This is also why I don't trade Miller in this time frame. He's someone who can help now in case of injury, and will help next year.

I know the flip side of the argument is that we'll need him after Sabathia leaves in free agency. This is very true. But, I think you make a run now and next year, and worry about afterwards, in 2009.

If you can go out and get a Crawford, or Texiera, or someone of similar ilk, and have to include Lofgren to get it done, I do it. Obviously you don't do it if you're not going to get a piece that will really help, and obviously if you don't have to include him, you don't. But if the right deal comes along, I have no problem dealing Lofgren.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Sat May 19, 2007 9:16 pm

tribefan333 wrote:Why would we trade probably the front of our rotation for one outfielder?

Never in my right mind would I send Sowers, Miller, Carmona, Lofgren, or any combo of the two for Crawford without getting a top pitching prospect back. Never.


Then we're not getting Crawford.

I'm not an advocate of it either. Getting Carl Crawford is not happening at the moment. The Rays have no interest in dealing him. They have three pitchers in AAA they like. They'd love to get their hands on a Carmona, a Miller, etc but they'd want more than just that for Crawford.

If Carmona continues to be sick they might trade Crawford straight up for Fausto, but I still wouldn't do that.

I believe Shapiro came out and stated that he would not be trading his top pitching prospects, so you can forget about Crawford for now. Maybe in the offseason if the Rays cannot extend him.

We are not getting any of the Rays' outfielders unless we part with at least one top flight pitching prospect. Sowers is once again sucking it up, so I doubt the Rays would be all over a guy who's currently no better than most of their starting rotation.
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Unread postby tribefan333 » Sat May 19, 2007 10:27 pm

I agree with that (Carmona for Crawford staight up...no).

The better Garko hits, the more Marte really does become expandable. Andy needs to start hitting in the next couple of months, or atleast keep up with Garko. (These two take away each others AB's with Blake and Nixon in the lineup.)
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Sat May 19, 2007 10:36 pm

tribefan333 wrote:I agree with that (Carmona for Crawford staight up...no).

The better Garko hits, the more Marte really does become expandable. Andy needs to start hitting in the next couple of months, or atleast keep up with Garko. (These two take away each others AB's with Blake and Nixon in the lineup.)


I don't think Garko makes Marte expendable because Garko plays 1B and not 3B. Casey Blake may not be here next year and I'd rather see someone else at 3B. We really don't have anyone else in AAA or AA to play 3B, so only a move of Peralta to Third, a free agent signing, or a trade would fix 3B. Moving Peralta would mean we'd need to find a strong defensive SS.

I'm also leery on giving up on Marte so quickly. Remember Brandon Phillips.
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Unread postby paulcousineau » Mon May 21, 2007 2:27 pm

I'm also leery on giving up on Marte so quickly.


Remember that Marte is 23, or about 11 months older than Wes Hodges, who is still in high-A ball.

Marte is in the Bigs, having succeeded as the youngest player in every level he has played at. He just needs some time to adjust, as many young players do.

If his defense is closer to what we saw at the end of 2006, rather than the beginning of 2007 - I'm OK letting him make those adjustments in Cleveland.

I'm also perplexed by everyone being so down on Peralta. His defense is improved, his offense has vastly improved from 2006, and he could be that RH bat that everyone desires (remember he was bashing in the 3 hole during the playoff push of 2005).

Is his range that much worse than Tejada's?
Is everyone still in love with Omar Vizquel, whose OPS is currently .556?

Not to go all Rick Pitino, but "Omar Vizquel isn't walking through that door, neither is Jim Thome or Manny Ramirez".

Can we just embrace the young talent on this roster and allow it to develop into the force that we've seen over the 1st quarter of 2007?
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Unread postby Dozen » Mon May 21, 2007 2:34 pm

Can we just embrace the young talent on this roster and allow it to develop into the force that we've seen over the 1st quarter of 2007?




I agree 100%




signed Brandon Phillips
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Unread postby dmcdougal » Mon May 21, 2007 3:11 pm

well most of you know I am happy with Borowski but this is interesting..

Keith Foulke is coming back to the MLB. I really think he just didn't want to pitch for Cleveland.

No to Percival. No to Foulke. Yes to Borowski
...and Crawford but that's not likely
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Unread postby Dozen » Mon May 21, 2007 3:29 pm

dmcdougal wrote:well most of you know I am happy with Borowski but this is interesting..

Keith Foulke is coming back to the MLB. I really think he just didn't want to pitch for Cleveland.

No to Percival. No to Foulke. Yes to Borowski
...and Crawford but that's not likely


Wouldnt the Indians own his rights this year? When did this info come out?
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Unread postby paulcousineau » Mon May 21, 2007 3:50 pm

Wouldnt the Indians own his rights this year? When did this info come out?


It was in a Boston paper this weekend (so take it with a grain of salt) and I don't think we would own his rights because he retired and didn't accept any money from the contract the Indians signed him to.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Mon May 21, 2007 6:56 pm

Unless we're in the market for an 85 mph throwin' guy with back, knee and elbow problems, I wouldn't be too concerned. He's done. Although, that was clear before they signed him initially.
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Relief Retreads

Unread postby ArtGold » Mon May 21, 2007 8:38 pm

I wouldn't even consider signing him, I would rather stick with what we have.

What is Tony Sipp's status? I see him potentially being a good in-house alternative to these retreads.
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Unread postby StewieG » Mon May 21, 2007 8:41 pm

Sipp won't help us until probably September, if at all this year. He's injured for awhile longer, and by the time he works himself back into pitching shape, and gets his innings in the minors, it'll likely be late August or September.
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Unread postby consigliere » Mon May 21, 2007 10:32 pm

Yeah, Sipp won't be pitching in games until maybe early July.....and he'll need some time in Buffalo to get it going again. Right now, he is a September callup at best, if that.
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Unread postby MadThinker88 » Mon May 21, 2007 10:35 pm

Don't forget that Cliff Politte is also going to start rehabing soon and he might be able to contribute down the stretch.
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Unread postby StewieG » Mon May 21, 2007 10:43 pm

I completely forgot about Politte. Maybe that's why Wedge is wearing out Oldberto?
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Unread postby consigliere » Tue May 22, 2007 8:45 am

Just an FYI in regard to Foulke:

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/news/a ... p&c_id=cle

If Foulke were to have the surgery, it's reasonable to expect it would take him at least a couple months to get back into pitching shape. The Indians hold the contractual rights to Foulke through this season after signing him to a one-year, $5 million contract this winter.
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Unread postby paulcousineau » Wed May 23, 2007 3:44 pm

Then there's this:

Glad you asked: The Boston Globe reported Sunday that Foulke may want to pitch again.

"We're aware of that, but you're talking about next year," said Shapiro.

Foulke needs surgery on his right elbow. The Indians signed Foulke to a one-year deal during the winter. When he didn't report to spring training, he saved the Tribe $5 million.

Shapiro said Foulke is not tied to the Tribe contractually.

"After what he did for us, we wouldn't hold him up," said Shapiro.


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Unread postby pup » Wed May 23, 2007 3:47 pm

What exactly did he do for us?
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Unread postby Steve Buffum » Wed May 23, 2007 3:53 pm

Pup wrote:What exactly did he do for us?

Five million things.
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Unread postby tribefan333 » Wed May 23, 2007 6:35 pm

Forget Foulke. He's got so many problems, he's just another version of Gange. Except Gagne was once the best pitcher in baseball. Foulke has always been strong, but to miss about 18 months in baseball is too much, especially after he thought he could go this year and lasted 4 minutes.
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