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What To Do With Honny?

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What To Do With Honny?

Unread postby swerb » Fri May 18, 2007 8:28 am

I've been screaming that Peralta should be moved to 2b or 3b for two years now.

Peralta allegedly had vision problems last year and busted his ass this off-season. The team was unable to acquire another SS. Honny was given another year as the teams SS without competition.

At least in the view of this Indians fan, Peralta has done nothing but validate my position that he is not a MLB SS defensively. He is on pace for 30 errors. His fielding % is in the bottom third of starting MLB SS's. And his range still sucks. In addition, I've heard Tom Hamilton say two times in the last two weeks that Peralta's error count this year could EASILY be 12-13 (instead of 7) due to favorable decisions from official scorers ... especially at Da Jake.

Now, with Westbrook extended, and Carmona thriving ... it looks like we are going to have two high ground ball count sinkerballers in the rotation for the next 2-3 years.

IMO, the extension of Westie and emergence of Fausto have sealed Honny's fate as a SS.

Now this all said .... Peralta is on pace to smash 34 HRs and drive in 120 RBIs this year. Its not like we're gonna cut this guy. Barfield is locked in at 2b. Put a gun to my head, and I'll tell you Honny is this teams starting 3b next season.

It's gonna be tough for the Tribe to move Peralta this year though. If they couldn't acquire a SS in the off-season, it's gonna be tough to do so in season.

Who is this teams opening day SS next year?
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Unread postby consigliere » Fri May 18, 2007 8:57 am

Man, great question. And, sort of ties in with the roundtable for this week.....in that I believe the team's #1 need may be a defensive-minded SS.

You put a vacuum cleaner like shortstop out there, and it will help our pitchers big time. And, I am of the belief that Peralta may be better suited for 3B now.

Man....if you did move Peralta to 3B....and you plan on keeping Carmona in the rotation and bumping Adam Miller to the #6 role.....that means you have some SERIOUS trading chips in Marte and Sowers that a team looking to get young major league ready talent may bite on in trading us a stud hitter. I heard Teixiera is on the block....wouldn't he look nice at 1B and in the middle of this lineup?

Go get me Texiera, a defensive shortstop and one more bully arm....and let's win this thing.
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Unread postby Dozen » Fri May 18, 2007 9:23 am

IMO, a defensive-minded SS isnt our #1 need but it is a need. Consig, do we have enough chips to fill all 3 of these voids this year?
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Unread postby MadThinker88 » Fri May 18, 2007 9:29 am

Michael Young would have been interesting thought before Texas extended him.
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Unread postby consigliere » Fri May 18, 2007 9:56 am

Dozen wrote:IMO, a defensive-minded SS isnt our #1 need but it is a need. Consig, do we have enough chips to fill all 3 of these voids this year?


Come, July....yeah, I think we have more then enough chips to use to get those three needs: a middle of the order bat, a defensive shortstop, and one more late inning bully guy.

Question is, will Shapiro be willing to part with some of his prized prospects to do so, and even make a tough call on trading some of the guys on the team like Marte and Sowers? I don't think the money angle will play into much....the only thing that will hold them back from making a significant trade is what we have to give up.

I see Texiera as a legit possibility. We have the prospects to bowl the Rangers over, and they may trade him anyway. Plus, don't forget the Showalter connection.
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Unread postby Dozen » Fri May 18, 2007 10:01 am

Hopefully Shapiro isnt hesitant to pull the trigger like Hart was in th 90's. But adding a SS is kinda like hitting a 2 birds with 1 stone by allowing JP to move to third. So maybe that changes my opinion some on the rank of the teams needs.
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Unread postby dpdad » Fri May 18, 2007 11:08 am

There's a pretty good defensive SS out in San Francisco who is in the final year of a three-year deal and wants an extension, but the Giants have been slow to respond, according to the SF paper. Omar has stated he wants to play through 2009. It would be a publicity coup for Dolan to get him back. I don't want to give up a starting pitcher for Omar, but if Shapiro could get him for a prospect or two, I would make the deal.
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Solution

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Fri May 18, 2007 11:12 am

It's an easy solution to the situation you're talking about then!

Trade Sowers, Marte, Crowe and a little bit more for Hanley Ramirez and Miguel Cabrera.

Play Ramirez at SS, Peralta at 3rd and Cabrera at 1B.

Job done!



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Unread postby consigliere » Fri May 18, 2007 11:54 am

If the Giants are out of it in July, and Honny struggles defensively at SS....I think Omar is a LEGIT possibility.

Omar would add the much needed defense at SS, some team speed, and also fill the void in the 2-hole.
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Unread postby MadThinker88 » Fri May 18, 2007 11:55 am

:? :-? :???: I thought part of the Texeria issue in Texas was the fact that Boras is his agent and he will hit the free agent market after this season.
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Unread postby KFletch » Fri May 18, 2007 12:27 pm

Just thinking out loud...but there is no way we could trade Jhonny and another minor leaguer to get Omar back?

I wish the Dolans put up the cash to keep him where he belongs...okay wishful thinking.

However, I see your point on moving Jhonny to 2nd/3rd base-personally I don't think they should of signed him to such a big contract w/ one year in the big leagues. Cleveland luck.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Fri May 18, 2007 12:39 pm

I don't like Carmona much at 2B or 3B because his greatest defensive liability is moving to his left. SS presents the greatest problem there because of so much movement to the left, but the reaction time would be cut down at 3B so he might not be best there. 2B may be a viable option. Barfield would have to be traded in that eventuality. Would LF be a possibility? Jhonny could focus more on becoming a power hitter in LF as mobility wouldn't be as big an issue in LF.

Cabrera is still hitting well in Akron, though his errors are up a bit. He's not ready but I think he may have a future at SS.

Omar may not be a real option in trade for this year as he's struggling behind the plate and has already committed as many errors as he did all of last year (still fewer than Jhonny).

I'm not sure where to look for a SS. Should we find a AAA guy in an org that already has a good SS or trade for a MLBer?
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Unread postby Hoover » Fri May 18, 2007 12:42 pm

It's risky to move Jhonny, because moving him will get inside his head, and destroy his hitting. When Blake was moved to RF, his hitting went into the dumper. He's more comfortable in the infield, now he's starting to turn it around.

If you move JP, you risk his hitting going into the crapper. He doesn't strike anyone as a super-confident individual. He's not the kind of guy who can handle a major position change.

3rd is a lot different than SS. The angles to 1st make the throws much more difficult. I used to play 3rd and SS, the throws are just way different at each position. I doubt JP will handle it well, and it will affect his hitting mindset.

It's not a move that needs to be made anyway. The team is starting to hit, and will get much better as the season warms up.
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Unread postby intenso » Fri May 18, 2007 12:48 pm

MadThinker88 wrote::? :-? :???: I thought part of the Texeria issue in Texas was the fact that Boras is his agent and he will hit the free agent market after this season.



Tex is a free agent after next season, I think. And the Rangers will definitely be looking to move him after this season.
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Unread postby Dozen » Fri May 18, 2007 12:53 pm

It's risky to move Jhonny, because moving him will get inside his head, and destroy his hitting. When Blake was moved to RF, his hitting went into the dumper. He's more comfortable in the infield, now he's starting to turn it around.



Some say it was a "personal issue" I say Blake just inst that good to be an everyday starter.

If you move JP, you risk his hitting going into the crapper. He doesn't strike anyone as a super-confident individual. He's not the kind of guy who can handle a major position change.


Is this a fact or an opinion? As long as his checks clear he does what he's told and I would hope he is a team guy.

It's not a move that needs to be made anyway. The team is starting to hit, and will get much better as the season warms up.


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Unread postby Hoover » Fri May 18, 2007 1:13 pm

Dozen wrote:Is this a fact or an opinion? As long as his checks clear he does what he's told and I would hope he is a team guy.


Everything's an opinion on the net. Opinions are like buttholes, everyone's got one.

Listening to Jhonny in interviews, watching him play for years, is enough to show he's not the most confident guy in the world. Moving him to 3rd is just a bad idea, plus it's unnecessary.

Tribe's made very few errors over the past 2 weeks, but they lack range at key positions. However, they'll never be the best defensive club, even with a grade A SS. But many World Series teams don't have great defense.

The team's in 1st place now, there's no need for major changes.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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Unread postby consigliere » Fri May 18, 2007 1:32 pm

Texeira is signed through this year, but is under his team's control through 2008. He will not be eligible for FA until after the 2008 season because he will not have six or more years of service time until then. He would only hit FA after this season if the Rangers (or whoever he is traded to) does not offer him arbitration...which would be one of the dumbest moves ever if a team declined arb on him.

Also, I would have to think a return to Cleveland for Omar would energize him....so if he is not performing well, we just get him on the cheap. I'd prefer him as a 1-2 year stop gap at SS over some 4A retread. He could be the bridge we need to Cabrera.

Also, Peralta's range and body type are more suited to 3B and 2B....and his arm makes him a good option at 3B. I'm not trading Barfield, and Peralta has a ton of experience in the minors at 3B, so I'd move Peralta there first. That may not happen until after the season though.....but if come July it is apparent his defensive is still struggling, I would not be surprised to see him moved to 3B and we get a vet like Omar to play SS.
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Unread postby Andouble » Fri May 18, 2007 1:41 pm

I know Omar is the one we want, but what are some of the other veteran SS's that come to mind?
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Unread postby intenso » Fri May 18, 2007 1:44 pm

Andouble wrote:I know Omar is the one we want, but what are some of the other veteran SS's that come to mind?



A-Rod. :mrgreen:
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Unread postby consigliere » Fri May 18, 2007 2:06 pm

You know.....if the Yanks fall out of the playoff race, I could see them trying to clean house or at least dumping some of the high priced vets and looing for young talent in return. A-Rod very well could be the hottest trade commodity on the market in July, and teams like the White Sox, Angels, Indians and others could be frothing at the mouth for him and he would net the Yanks one helluva return.
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Unread postby Dozen » Fri May 18, 2007 2:27 pm

Hoover wrote:
Dozen wrote:Is this a fact or an opinion? As long as his checks clear he does what he's told and I would hope he is a team guy.


Everything's an opinion on the net. Opinions are like buttholes, everyone's got one.

Listening to Jhonny in interviews, watching him play for years, is enough to show he's not the most confident guy in the world. Moving him to 3rd is just a bad idea, plus it's unnecessary.

Tribe's made very few errors over the past 2 weeks, but they lack range at key positions. However, they'll never be the best defensive club, even with a grade A SS. But many World Series teams don't have great defense.

The team's in 1st place now, there's no need for major changes.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


Not necessarily, Some on here actually have some connections (Consigliere,Swerb) I honestly wanted to know if you had some personal knowledge of the situation.





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There is an old saying where you can learn more from a loss than a win, so I can see the perception of some to think like this. However the team has a few warts that they can address by using some of their prospects and I'm all for getting better.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Fri May 18, 2007 2:46 pm

Moving Peralta from short to second is like turning your radio up when the engine knocks. He's not a major league middle infielder.

As far as hurting his confidence, well, that's less of a problem than having a cipher at the most important defensive position on the field, in relation to winning games.

And, prospect status evaporates fast, with time and performance. In other words, Andy Marte isn't worth all that much.
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Unread postby Dozen » Fri May 18, 2007 2:48 pm

Lead Pipe wrote:Moving Peralta from short to second is like turning your radio up when the engine knocks. He's not a major league middle infielder.

As far as hurting his confidence, well, that's less of a problem than having a cipher at the most important defensive position on the field, in relation to winning games.


Seriously Pipes, I could read these analogies all day! I think a book should be in the works!
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Fri May 18, 2007 3:59 pm

Consigliere wrote:Also, Peralta's range and body type are more suited to 3B and 2B....and his arm makes him a good option at 3B. I'm not trading Barfield, and Peralta has a ton of experience in the minors at 3B, so I'd move Peralta there first. That may not happen until after the season though.....but if come July it is apparent his defensive is still struggling, I would not be surprised to see him moved to 3B and we get a vet like Omar to play SS.


If Marte does return and perform well for the rest of this year then where does that leave Peralta? His hitting potential would make him attractive in trade, though I still think he might be tried in LF unless his arm could handle RF. I don't know if he's ever played in the OF or if he could handle the running, but I don't see where else he can play if Marte does pan out.
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Unread postby consigliere » Fri May 18, 2007 4:06 pm

I don't know what to do about Peralta/Marte if Marte comes back and performs. But, at this moment, I have to go with the assumption that Marte will not perform (I still think long-run, he will be okay). But, I think Peralta needs a position change, and 3B is where he has to go. Which is why it makes Marte (and not Peralta) expendable. From an offensive standpoint, I believe Peralta could be a right-handed version of Eric Chavez at 3B.
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Unread postby KChmura » Fri May 18, 2007 6:10 pm

Mr. MacPhisto wrote:I don't like Carmona much at 2B or 3B because his greatest defensive liability is moving to his left. SS presents the greatest problem there because of so much movement to the left, but the reaction time would be cut down at 3B so he might not be best there. 2B may be a viable option. Barfield would have to be traded in that eventuality. Would LF be a possibility? Jhonny could focus more on becoming a power hitter in LF as mobility wouldn't be as big an issue in LF.

Cabrera is still hitting well in Akron, though his errors are up a bit. He's not ready but I think he may have a future at SS.

Omar may not be a real option in trade for this year as he's struggling behind the plate and has already committed as many errors as he did all of last year (still fewer than Jhonny).

I'm not sure where to look for a SS. Should we find a AAA guy in an org that already has a good SS or trade for a MLBer?


carmona is a pitcher and a SS? who knew lol
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