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Cleveland Indians & MLB

Game #38 Tribe/Twins 5/17

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Unread postby intenso » Thu May 17, 2007 4:14 pm

Wahoot wrote:Amazing game by Fausto. But I'm not thrilled that Wedge let him throw 122 pitches. I'll dig up the articles later today, but a number of studies have shown an increased risk for (a) injury, and (b) crappy next starts when you get over 105 - 110 pitches.

122 is just dumb.



If that's true, it's only because arms are so babied today. Nolan Ryan didn't feel like a man if tossed less than 150.
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Unread postby sal09 » Thu May 17, 2007 4:17 pm

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Unread postby BruceK » Thu May 17, 2007 4:41 pm

Well, I guess Fausto can tell his roommates in Buffalo to ship the rest of his stuff to Cleveland -- 'cause he ain't going back.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Thu May 17, 2007 5:38 pm

Dozen wrote:
Wahoot wrote:Amazing game by Fausto. But I'm not thrilled that Wedge let him throw 122 pitches. I'll dig up the articles later today, but a number of studies have shown an increased risk for (a) injury, and (b) crappy next starts when you get over 105 - 110 pitches.

122 is just dumb.
|-(

The kid deserved to finish and that wasnt dumb


There aren't conclusive studies. If there were the Japanese philosophy wouldn't differ from ours. Dice K is breaking all sorts of "rules" in Boston as we speak. I have a hard time believing that it's ok to throw 110, but not 122. The greatest value in pitch counts IMO is to determine when a guy loses effectiveness. Everyone is different. The whole "stronger as the game goes on" phrase is a result of this. Some guys lose stuff at 80 pitches. Some never do. Some lose it much earlier and never make it.

What would be dumb, and a much larger injury risk would be to treat the guy like they did last year. Trust me, throwing 20 more pitches than usual is nothing compared to that.

By the way, another media favorite is not wanting to bring the young pitcher up too soon or you'll ruin him. Nonsense. If you can pitch you can pitch. It isn't a larger injury risk and one pretty common trait of hall of fame players, both hitters and pitchers is that they were in the show young. Many struggle at first, but if you can play, you can play.
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Unread postby pup » Thu May 17, 2007 6:06 pm

There aren't conclusive studies. If there were the Japanese philosophy wouldn't differ from ours. Dice K is breaking all sorts of "rules" in Boston as we speak. I have a hard time believing that it's ok to throw 110, but not 122. The greatest value in pitch counts IMO is to determine when a guy loses effectiveness. Everyone is different. The whole "stronger as the game goes on" phrase is a result of this. Some guys lose stuff at 80 pitches. Some never do. Some lose it much earlier and never make it.

What would be dumb, and a much larger injury risk would be to treat the guy like they did last year. Trust me, throwing 20 more pitches than usual is nothing compared to that.

By the way, another media favorite is not wanting to bring the young pitcher up too soon or you'll ruin him. Nonsense. If you can pitch you can pitch. It isn't a larger injury risk and one pretty common trait of hall of fame players, both hitters and pitchers is that they were in the show young. Many struggle at first, but if you can play, you can play.


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Unread postby skatingtripods » Fri May 18, 2007 2:09 pm

I've been on a bit of a hiatus, going to Tuesday and Wednesday's games, being back home and on dial-up internet and playing poker Monday night, but I'll throw all of my thoughts into this thread.

That roadtrip was terrible. To go 4-6 against those three teams was a major letdown. Thanks Joe Blow for another shitty outing.

Awesome effort Tuesday night from the offense. Barfield had some huge hits to keep innings going and, even though Byrdie gave up 5, he made the pitches when it mattered so that the offense could keep piling it on.

Wednesday night was an altogether different story. Great effort from the big guy to get us a win on a chilly night. I think Sabathia'd pitch in this weather all the time. He's been dynamite on chillier nights.

Yesterday was just an awesome game. Fausto was flat out dealing and two clutch hits from the middle of the lineup. I give Garko a lot of credit for dealing with Wedge and his bullshit. Garko's got what, about 150 chances at first and no errors? Yeah Eric, his defense is such a liability.


Heading into interleague play, which I really can't stand, here's some thoughts. First of all, sad for Aaron Harang but great for us if he can't go Sunday from being on the bereavement list. He's had some success against us in the last couple years.

I hate this interleague bullshit. I don't care about seeing the NL. Yeah, I am excited about Atlanta coming in during June, but it's just not conducive to an exciting schedule. Sure it helped us a ton in 2005 when we battered the NL West, but it really isn't a necessary thing in baseball. I'd rather play more interdivision games and make for some more exciting pennant races. Or at least play BOS and NYY again. That will do more for the fans than interleague play.

I'm tired of the David Dellucci experience. The guy's a hack and he has even less range this year than ever before. I can deal with Trot's lack of range because I think Grady moves better to RC than LC.

Other than that, all is well on the reservation this week.
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Unread postby FUDU » Sat May 19, 2007 1:58 am

On another note, we all wonder what this team will be like when the offense clicks?

Second in the majors in runs scored (and no we have not played the most games).

Sounds like clicking to me.
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Unread postby consigliere » Sat May 19, 2007 8:39 am

Indians on pace to win 105 games.

Which, when looking at it is amazing because I still feel they haven't played great up until these last 4 games. These last 4 games ARE great baseball. Now we are starting to click. Can we rattle off a long win streak or two?
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Unread postby FUDU » Sat May 19, 2007 3:47 pm

These last 4 games ARE great baseball. Now we are starting to click. Can we rattle off a long win streak or two?


Not only that but can we just avoid extended losing streaks?

Look we are going to get swept in a 3 game series some where again, and chances are we will lose 4 in a row as well (heck the 95 team did and they might have broke the record for most wins had it not been for a strike shortened start) but if we can avoid multiple streaks like those we will be in great shape.

The other sign I like a lot (that we really have not seen since 96) is the dominance at home.
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Unread postby furls » Sat May 19, 2007 4:03 pm

THe hallmark of the indians under Wedge (well one of them) is that when the wheels fall of the wagon for a few games, they are slow to get it working again, resulting in stretches of PUTRID baseball.

If the Indians can avoid that they will at least be a wild card team this year. The offense has been pretty good so far, but is no where near "clicking." Hafner has been mired in a slump and Sizemore is just coming out of his. I shutter to think what this team will look like once it is truely hitting on all cylinders.
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