CP RAGING!

[CTtribefan]

CP called out fans for booing him during the Thursday Seattle game and also talking about attendance. I got to say I support him 100%. 5,000 fans at a game is a JOKE! That is something I would expect at a minor league game. Booing a guy that has at the time 11 straight saves because he gives up a hit and a walk? Have these fans looked at closers around the league? Keep raging CP! Go Tribe!

[e0y2e3]

NO!

[CTtribefan]

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ss ... _pitc.html

[andrew6586]

I agree as well. When people don't show up it's hard to like the town. However he forgot to mention the other problem with this team: a cheap ass owner. Obviously he can't call him boss out though.

[pup]

Spend 10% of your disposable income to come down and watch the games, then we will consider spending 3% of ours to improve the team!

And don't forget to drop that $10 on an 11 oz bud light while you are here!

Chris Perez, putting his money were his mouth is? What is he gonna drop, $1,000 for the year. Oooooh. Like me dropping $50 at a fundraiser, which I do and will continue to do over spending money for this organization to waste on updating their Spring Training facilities or buying a new piece of high tech garbage.

[LakeErieWarriors]

I'm glad Rage called out the fans, somebody had to. Will it have it's intended effect? We'll see on Tuesday, but probably not. If this team proves they can play on both sides of the All-Star Break, that will get some asses in the seats. It's true this team doesn't spend money, but it's also true (considering that money they don't spend) that they do the best with what little they've got.

As far as Rage's play, he does to me what Joe Borowski did every single time he came in the game: makes my blood pressure rise. Which, IMO is just part of the deal with closers, they'll tend to make you nervous. But yeah, bottom line is: he gets the job done way more often than not (see yesterday), and the small number of fans booing this overachieving team is just plain old ass-backwards.

[dazindiansfanuk]

I'll put my money where my mouth is: For the rest of the season, home games only, I will give away three pairs of tickets.

https://twitter.com/#!/ChrisPerez54/sta ... 6054855680

[Spin]

While I respect his giving his opinion and not hiding behind the PC cliche's, he's dead wrong.

Free agents don't avoid Cleveland because of the fans. Free agents avoid Cleveland because Dolan won't pay them. And the fans don't go to games because Dolan won't pay them.

Reference Jim Thome. They brought someone in, we sold out the joint several times. And then he was too GD cheap to resign him. And when CP continues to be a lights-out closer, you can bet your sweet ass Dolan won't pay him either.

And he will still blame the fans of Cleveland while he draws 8 figures from someone who gives a shit how good their team is.

[dazindiansfanuk]

Free agents don't avoid Cleveland because of the fans. Free agents avoid Cleveland because Dolan won't pay them. And the fans don't go to games because Dolan won't pay them.

They supposedly offered Beltran and Pena more money this winter, but they signed elsewhere.

[justmebd]

Perez isn't wrong, but he probably should just not have answered that question. He gains nothing by speaking the truth.

Between Perez' comments, Paulie's column and Benz' column, there has been a lot of hate directed toward a first place team.

As all (except Perez) pointed out, this is what happens when you have sucky ownership. The fans refuse to buy into anything because they're waiting for the ownership to jerk the rug out from under our feet at the first sign of trouble.

People like us are in the minority. I'm actually pissed off I haven't been able to go to any games this year so far, and that they only play afternoon games when I'm working. I think I saw one game this week.

Side Note One: Stop bitching about the price of Beer at a baseball game. Overcharging for beer happens at every stadium in every sport and concert event nationwide. I stopped buying beer at games 10 years ago. That's what the bars across the street are for before and after the game.

Side Note Two: All ownership has to do is show they are committed, and the fans will show up. Since that's not going to happen under the current ownership, fair-weather fans are an unavoidable irritant. I just smile and keep walking. (Or tell them to go fuck themselves.)

[peeker643]

I really would love to know how many games each and every hump that bitches about attendance has attended.

Again, 30-15 last season and they finished 2 games under .500 and 15 games behind Tigers.

Win. Keep winning. People will go.

But if ya don't go and you don't care enough to go then should you get "Seattled", STFU.

[Commodore Perry]

I completely agree with Perez, and I like him even more that he has the balls to say it.

The guy is 13 for 14 in save opportunities. And fans are booing him at home? Its pathetic. Even when a player struggles, he shouldn't be booed at home. That should be reserved for that special occasion when the player is just a douche.

So sick of the Cleveland hate.

[Bigfist]

Well, checking attendance figures, the Indians drew more than six other teams last year, including one team (TB) that made the playoffs. In the most recent NBA season, the awful Cavs finished 19th out of 30 teams, and actually outdrew three teams that made the playoffs.

I think if the fans, rightly or wrongly, sense that the owner is trying to win, they will support the team. The perception is that Gilbert is trying to win, and that Dolan is not.

Perez would be better off shutting up. He has run his mouth a number of times and rarely in a complimentary way. Just do your job, CP.

[phutatorius]

Let's break this down into its component parts. CP had two complaints: (1) folks aren't coming to game, and (2) the folks who are coming are booing him.

The attendance question is a chicken-and-egg problem. Does the flagging commitment of ownership lead to fan disinterest, or vice versa? The simple answer is somebody should do something to break the vicious cycle here. It's fair to ask ownership to do it, but what if they never do? Somebody's got to jump-start this thing, and the players are doing their part. Fans, come to the park and support this team. If you've got problems with ownership — and I do — make yourself heard on that particular point. But this team deserves Clevelanders' attention.

As to idiots in the stands booing Perez for putting runners on base in the course of a scoreless inning — well, that's pretty lame. Sounds like some folks completely checked out after Opening Day and then resurfaced with all their negativity last week. If you've been paying any kind of attention to what Perez has done since that first blown save, you're not booing him. But in a weird way, it's probably a *good* sign that clueless boo-birds are in the park on Getaway Day, because the incremental gains in attendance are more likely to come from folks on the periphery of fandom than the hard-core among us who follow every game in real-time.

I don't know that this is exactly what he's thinking, but I'm going to reframe Perez's point as follows:

Hey fans: You may have a legitimate beef with ownership. But we're out here winning games with the players we have. You may have wanted to gouge your eyes out with a grapefruit spoon when we came up north — again! — with Hannahan started at 3B. But he's been an out-of-his-mind clutch hitter and a Hoover at the Hot Corner. Yes, Ubaldo takes the mound every day with pretty much nothing working. And yet somehow, with grit and veteran wiles, he's keeping us in a lot of these games. There are *tons* of feel-good stories on this team that don't involve anybody's checkbook. We're out here busting our butts to win games, and we're winning 'em. Let the grief go and give us some love already. And try to learn the first thing about baseball before you bust out the boos.

[All that said, I'll personally abuse Perez up and down Twitter all day long (it's a long commute to the Prog from Boston), if it keeps him pitching like he did last night.]

[cozmeesah]

Transcript of what he said this morning:

http://throwinheat.mlblogs.com/2012/05/ ... -responds/

[e0y2e3]

Well, checking attendance figures, the Indians drew more than six other teams last year, including one team (TB) that made the playoffs. In the most recent NBA season, the awful Cavs finished 19th out of 30 teams, and actually outdrew three teams that made the playoffs.

I think if the fans, rightly or wrongly, sense that the owner is trying to win, they will support the team. The perception is that Gilbert is trying to win, and that Dolan is not.

Perez would be better off shutting up. He has run his mouth a number of times and rarely in a complimentary way. Just do your job, CP.

Looking at attendance numbers in themselves is beyond stupid. % of capacity matters far more (Cavs were 27) and I DARE you to remove the THOME THROWBACK!@#$!@#)(*%@ numbers from last years Tribe attendance.

[e0y2e3]

And FWIW: IF I hear another fucking person say that Gilbert "trying to win" is why they will drop 400x the money to go to a Cavs game than an Indians game (cheapest of all the sports by FAAAAAR) I'm going to lose my shit in this here Indians forum for the first time.

My brain is already near explosion, don't push me.

[pup]

And FWIW: IF I hear another fucking person say that Gilbert "trying to win" is why they will drop 400x the money to go to a Cavs game than an Indians game (cheapest of all the sports by FAAAAAR) I'm going to lose my shit in this here Indians forum for the first time.

My brain is already near explosion, don't push me.

Read what he wrote. Gilbert gives the impression he is trying to win. Like it or not, that is the perception of people that you know, actually live here.

Bitching about low attendance from Boston is pretty e0.

Begin Cleveland fans are stupid rant in 3,2,1

[e0y2e3]

So ranking 27th in % of capacity because an owner looks smart is better than spending $45 on a beer, a dog and a ticket to go to the Indians.

[pup]

So ranking 27th in % of capacity because an owner looks smart is better than spending $45 on a beer, a dog and a ticket to go to the Indians.

Only people that need something to fall back on would care about capacity %. Asses in seats is all that matters. You don't get paid for "close to capacity". In terms of some hell bent hatred of Gilbert I am sure you can make a case that this means people don't believe in him and what he is doing. But I will take 60K in a 100K stadium over 40K in a 50K any day of the week.

$45 doesn't even get you a ticket in any decent place to sit and watch a game at Progessive. At least not in my opinion. I am paying $70 per ticket to see the god damn Pirates in June for decent seats. But you keep barking.

Dan Gilbert+Chris Grant >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dolan+Shapanetti

[e0y2e3]

If you worked in finance you would understand the issues about budgets, how much it costs to run stadiums.... etc.

And 19th (w/in 500 peeps per game of 25th) isn't exactly awesome attendance.

[e0y2e3]

And seriously, if you want to declare decent seat wars then I dare you to sit in a good NBA seat for less than a buck fity.

[pup]

If you worked in finance you would understand the issues about budgets, how much it costs to run stadiums.... etc.

And 19th (w/in 500 peeps per game of 25th) isn't exactly awesome attendance.

I know dude. If only I worked in finance.

LOL. Don't cook too many hot dogs in case nobody comes. Same problem I have with my 4th of July party. Better get there early. My back yard holds 150, and I invited the entire neighborhood, but I am only buying dogs for 30. If more than 30 show up, I will start auctioning them off so I can generate extra revenue to buy 40 next year. Same shitty dogs, maybe they cook up a little better though so that will make it worth the investment today.

[e0y2e3]

and that makes you a cheap asshole like.... wait for it.... DOLAN

[pup]

and that makes you a cheap asshole like.... wait for it.... DOLAN

It is what the Dolans told this fan base only a few short years ago. Spend money to watch our shitty product because Mark Shapiro was garbage in hopes that when we have more money Mark will spend it more wisely.

All the while, they spent how much god damn money on a "state of the art" training facility 4,000 miles away that they can take advantage of only during ST or if someone is seriously fucked up.

And they spend money on all the latest technological advances in the world. Yet they won't spend it on an extra year of getting a player that would make a huge impact. And the few times Dolan gave Shap the green light to spend, he did dick with it.

To recap in case the screen is fuzzy with Boston Juice:

1. An owner telling fans they have to front his team
2. An organization spending like the Federal Government on a facility
3. A GM/President getting sold on technology over people
4. When money is spent, it is spent poorly

[idoctribefan]

A man making $4.5 million per season is telling people who make 1/100 of that how to spend their money. And if they do show up, please don't boo him because it's a nuisance. Gimme a break.

[motherscratcher]

A man making $4.5 million per season is telling people who make 1/100 of that how to spend their money. And if they do show up, please don't boo him because it's a nuisance. Gimme a break.

At what yearly salary do you lose the right to voice your opinion on something?

We bitch constantly that these guys don't give a fuck about anything but the money, and then when they give a fuck about something we tell them to shut up because they make too much money.

[FUDU]

Like me dropping $50 at a fundraiser, which I do and will continue to do over spending money for this organization to waste on updating their Spring Training facilities or buying a new piece of high tech garbage.

There is nothing high tech about Derrick Lowe.

[FUDU]

A man making $4.5 million per season is telling people who make 1/100 of that how to spend their money. And if they do show up, please don't boo him because it's a nuisance. Gimme a break.

At what yearly salary do you lose the right to voice your opinion on something?

We bitch constantly that these guys don't give a fuck about anything but the money, and then when they give a fuck about something we tell them to shut up because they make too much money.

The thing is the player(s) are paid to be there, we are paying to be there. So yeah for the most part unless they have praise for fans they should STFU.

Again as mentioned though wasn't CP actually whining about the wrong thing, the fans booing of the manager's move not him?

[LakeErieWarriors]

Like me dropping $50 at a fundraiser, which I do and will continue to do over spending money for this organization to waste on updating their Spring Training facilities or buying a new piece of high tech garbage.

There is nothing high tech about Derrick Lowe.

Or Johnny Damon. His ship has pretty much sailed, especially with that strenght test he put on that wall 5 minutes ago.

[FUDU]

Well Damon is on the cheap right?

Lowe on the other hand is old tech at the high cost of high tech.

[idoctribefan]

A man making $4.5 million per season is telling people who make 1/100 of that how to spend their money. And if they do show up, please don't boo him because it's a nuisance. Gimme a break.

At what yearly salary do you lose the right to voice your opinion on something?

We bitch constantly that these guys don't give a fuck about anything but the money, and then when they give a fuck about something we tell them to shut up because they make too much money.

No where in my statements did I say that he lost the right to voice his opinion. I was merely implying that it was ridiculous for him to say some of what he said.

Additionally, he kept contradicting himself in Sunday's interview....complaining about the attendance and then saying that the attendance doesn't bother him, "just all the negativity". Then saying he's not worried about fan backlash right after saying it pisses him off that they boo. Instead of attacking the fans, why not do the interview and say "hey fans, we need you guys out here. I know you're busy and you only have so much money to go around, but we feed off your energy and the ballpark is more fun when this place is full."

I also thought it was funny when he talked about how much more fun Philadelphia's ballpark is for the players (likely a true statement) BUT saying that right after talking about how it pisses him off that he gets booed. As a former 4-year resident of the city of Philadelphia, I can attest that it is not a place you want to play if you "get sick of all the negativity" and don't like getting booed.

Almost any profession you're in, you're gonna get some kind of criticism/angry customers/etc. Deal with it.

[LakeErieWarriors]

Damons making $1.25 mil this year.

You can be on both sides of the fence of what Rage said. He made many good points, and like idoctribefan said he contradicted himself a few times and kind of sounded stupid. Weather's getting better and kids are finishing school. There will be more asses in the seats naturally. Let's not overanalyze here.

[Bigfist]

I guess Perez can call out our Forum for not having a game thread the last two days.

[motherscratcher]

A man making $4.5 million per season is telling people who make 1/100 of that how to spend their money. And if they do show up, please don't boo him because it's a nuisance. Gimme a break.

At what yearly salary do you lose the right to voice your opinion on something?

We bitch constantly that these guys don't give a fuck about anything but the money, and then when they give a fuck about something we tell them to shut up because they make too much money.

No where in my statements did I say that he lost the right to voice his opinion. I was merely implying that it was ridiculous for him to say some of what he said.

Additionally, he kept contradicting himself in Sunday's interview....complaining about the attendance and then saying that the attendance doesn't bother him, "just all the negativity". Then saying he's not worried about fan backlash right after saying it pisses him off that they boo. Instead of attacking the fans, why not do the interview and say "hey fans, we need you guys out here. I know you're busy and you only have so much money to go around, but we feed off your energy and the ballpark is more fun when this place is full."

I also thought it was funny when he talked about how much more fun Philadelphia's ballpark is for the players (likely a true statement) BUT saying that right after talking about how it pisses him off that he gets booed. As a former 4-year resident of the city of Philadelphia, I can attest that it is not a place you want to play if you "get sick of all the negativity" and don't like getting booed.

Almost any profession you're in, you're gonna get some kind of criticism/angry customers/etc. Deal with it.

You implied in your post that his opinion is less valid or shouldn't be voiced due to his salary.

As far as him dealing with it...well, isn't he?

[e0y2e3]

SMH Pup, you really are just a hater.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

I ain't driving 2+ hours to overpay for parking, ticket, food, and a couple of beers.

I don't give a FUCKING SHIT about fucking finance.

Chris Perez can shut his fat fucking cocksucker. You disgusting outta shape overpaid shitblob cunt ass that works about 5 hours a week. "I THROW A BASEBALL FOR ONE INNING BECAUSE MY TALENT IS LIMITED DO TO MY FATNESS, I HAVE SAUSAGE TITS AND I SMELL LIKE A RHINO'S FORESKIN DURRRRR!!!!!!" The fans pay your salary, you pickle puffing pig. So go count your money and SHUT. THE. FUCK. UP.

Whew....... I feel better. Needed to get that RAGE out.

[skatingtripods]

I ain't driving 2+ hours to overpay for parking, ticket, food, and a couple of beers.

Ain't hard. I park for free, stand on the Porch for $8-12, grab food somewhere else before I go downtown, and don't waste my money buying beers because I'm not some alcoholic fuck who can't wait 3 hours to have a beer.

Everybody makes it out to be some fucking hassle. It's not. Maybe for you it is because you have to drive two hours, but that's too bad and he wasn't talking about you anyway.

As for what Perez said, whatever. True fans are going anyway. Bandwagoners are sitting around at home waiting for the other shoe to drop. They'll show up in August if the team's still in the hunt and act like some kind of super fan.

City's full of pathetic, ignorant, ill-informed baseball "fans". It won't change.

I can't tell you the number of times somebody standing behind me on the Porch hasn't known who somebody in the lineup is. Has to ask what the score is even though there are, what, 5 or 6 scoreboards around the ballpark.

But hey, they'll keep blindly following the 4-12 Browns every year. Fuck 'em. Fuck every last one of 'em.

I'll still be there at my 30+ games a year.

[swerb]

Yeah, comparatively speaking to every other pro sport, it's not expensive to go to an Indians game. Especially the way they do it now ... where weekday games against non elite foes are cheaper. You can get a great seat for $25. Or sit in the bleachers or stand on the left field wall for $10. To get into the lower bowl of a Cavs game ... the ticket alone will cost you much more than parking, a ticket, food, and beers for a Tribe game.

In addition to the affordable price point, the stadium is gorgeous, the team is ultra-likable, and the Indians do a good job with the in game experience. I love watching baseball games at that stadium. I go a lot with people that come in from other parts of the country, people that are fans of other teams ... and universally people love watching games at The Prog.

Outside of Perez saying Beltran didn't come here cause the fans blow (we offered less $ than the defending champs ... come on), nothing he said was wrong. The attendance has been embarrassing. And there is absolutely no reason this guy should be getting booed. You have to be a total idiot. Dude has been one of the most valuable pitchers in the AL so far this season.

To me, the sports fans in this town are more fairweather than ever. It's been much worse since LeQuit left. The fans will fill the stadiums and arenas here ... but only if they feel the team has a chance to get to the playoffs and win. If not, they stay away. Last year's collapse by the Indians has had impact on this years #'s.

Attendance will pick up. But I don't blame Perez for being pissed at what he's seen the first six weeks of the season.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

nm....

Perez is right.

You all suck.

Except superfan diehard Adam.

He gets a parade.

EDIT: And don't call me an alcoholic, you degenerate gambling fuck.

[skatingtripods]

The fact that bad teams in bad weather cities (Colorado, Seattle (dome or no dome, that's an open air ballpark), Minnesota) are outdrawing us by a lot is really sad. You can't blame it on the weather. You can't blame it on the product. The ownership angle is bullshit and a joke. People use that as a crutch because they have insanely unrealistic expectations about owners just because they have money. They're still businessmen. They still have to make smart investments. In the Dolans case, this is really their chief source of income because I really don't think their stake in Cablevision is that big.

It blows my mind how the idiots in this city expect the Dolans to compete in a free market system with escalating contracts and money-hungry agents. All while the team considers a good attendance year one where they consistently fill 60% of the ballpark.

The concession argument is stupid. You know going in that you're going to overpay for food and drinks. A $1.29 20 oz bottle of Pepsi from a gas station is $4.75 at the ballpark. Is it ridiculous? Yes. But it's no different from any other ballpark or any other sport. Souvenirs are overpriced too, because MLB charges exorbitant amounts for licensing. Again, it's something you should know and comprehend before even setting foot in the stadium. Either you consciously decide not to drink a $9 beer or you suck it up and deal with it.

We have a cynical media with a cynical fan base and 58 seasons without a championship. While that's not our fault, this woe is me attitude exhibited by so many of the people who follow sports in this city is a tired act. Nobody feels sorry for us.

No matter how much money these guys make, they want to play in front of somebody. They have a very intense competitive spirit that is fueled by adrenaline and the support of the fans. Not every player that goes to the Yankees is interested in the extra dollars in their paycheck. It's because of the atmosphere. The history. The fan base. They want to be in that situation to strike out a guy with the tying run on third or hit a walk-off home run in front of 40,000+ people.

Did Perez take it too far? I don't know. He certainly pissed off Antonetti and Shapiro enough for them to want to meet with him and then release a statement saying that they disagreed with Perez's stance on everything. He mentioned a lack of accountability from ownership groups in this city. You know he was talking about the Dolans.

But what he said is already out there and there's no taking it back. The diehards have agreed with him while the fairweathers have labeled him an asshole and made a bunch of excuses as to why they don't go. He probably disenfranchised some of them, but if all it takes is some comments by one outspoken player to get them to never go to an Indians game, they probably weren't going anyway.

Either they continue to remain in the hunt and attendance improves or the bottom falls out and they'll be playing in front of 1500 in September. The casual fan drives ticket revenue and it's hard to get them on board. That's the players' job and we'll see if they can do it.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

You want clowns in cars or dancing monkeys for your holy superfan parade?

[skatingtripods]

You want clowns in cars or dancing monkeys for your holy superfan parade?

Whatever, as long as you don't show up.

[FUDU]

A quick glance back at attendance in some recent, previous seasons.

All figures are through and including May of each season, opening day figures are not included.

2003: 449K, 25 games, avg 17.9, record 21-32, finished 68-94
2004: 455K, 26 games, avg 17.5, record 22-28, finished 80-82
2005: 401K, 23 games, avg 17.4, record 24-25, finished 93-69
2006: 575K, 25 games, avg 23, record 27-26, finished 78-84
2011: 411K, 24 games, avg 17.1, record 32-20, finished 80-82
2012: 290K, 21 games, avg 13.8, record 23-17,

[pup]

You keep saying cleveland is full of fair weather fans.

And the entire thread is made about attendance being shitty for a first place team. If that ain't the fucking opposite of fair weather, I don't know what is.

Maybe it is a fan base completely fed up with:

1. A shitty front office who blew more drafts than humanly possible.
2. An owner who tells them he will spend when they do
3. An org that spends millions on everything BUT players
4. Trading back to back Cy Young winners for an 8th inning guy, a 4th OF, a AAA utility guy and a AAAA hack.

And they keep telling us it has nothing to do with the money on a contract, it is always about the length. So if we promise them to sell out the house for the next decade...how much more will they improve the product?

They are a bunch of excuse making, double talking nerds more concerned with bottom line than winning percentage. And that is why people don't flock to their stadium.

It is a lot easier to get 80,000 to 8 games, than 40,000 to 81.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

You want clowns in cars or dancing monkeys for your holy superfan parade?

Whatever, as long as you don't show up.

Oh i'll be there. It's my idea, fucko.

[Damage]

Yeah, comparatively speaking to every other pro sport, it's not expensive to go to an Indians game. Especially the way they do it now ... where weekday games against non elite foes are cheaper. You can get a great seat for $25. Or sit in the bleachers or stand on the left field wall for $10. To get into the lower bowl of a Cavs game ... the ticket alone will cost you much more than parking, a ticket, food, and beers for a Tribe game.

In addition to the affordable price point, the stadium is gorgeous, the team is ultra-likable, and the Indians do a good job with the in game experience. I love watching baseball games at that stadium. I go a lot with people that come in from other parts of the country, people that are fans of other teams ... and universally people love watching games at The Prog.

Outside of Perez saying Beltran didn't come here cause the fans blow (we offered less $ than the defending champs ... come on), nothing he said was wrong. The attendance has been embarrassing. And there is absolutely no reason this guy should be getting booed. You have to be a total idiot. Dude has been one of the most valuable pitchers in the AL so far this season.

To me, the sports fans in this town are more fairweather than ever. It's been much worse since LeQuit left. The fans will fill the stadiums and arenas here ... but only if they feel the team has a chance to get to the playoffs and win. If not, they stay away. Last year's collapse by the Indians has had impact on this years #'s.

Attendance will pick up. But I don't blame Perez for being pissed at what he's seen the first six weeks of the season.

Disagree with the bold part. If anything, the fans here are more sensitive than ever. It's still a tough city with tougher people, mind you, but the constant snakebit attitude the fan base takes on will never go away until we win something.

[skatingtripods]

4. Trading back to back Cy Young winners for an 8th inning guy, a 4th OF, a AAA utility guy and a AAAA hack.

They also traded an aging 5th OF/DH for a bona fide all-star SS, a musician for an everyday RF, a utility guy for a franchise catcher, and a catcher with bad knees for a top of the rotation starter and a lefty reliever with shutdown potential.

You take the good with the bad when it comes to trading.

For every trade they've screwed up, there's one that they have decidedly won.

And they keep telling us it has nothing to do with the money on a contract, it is always about the length.

Come on, Cris. You know exactly why that's the case. Look at Jake Westbrook. Look at Travis Hafner. They can't get themselves caught in too many bad contracts and run the risk of injuries.

Remember when they wanted to sign Orlando Hudson? I went back and looked in that thread. It was 2010. The deal on the table was for two years with a third year option that, reportedly, had a huge buyout for the third year, 2012. Hudson just got DFA'd the other day.

They have to be careful because they don't exactly have wiggle room with the payroll.

And yeah, it is easier to get 80k to 8 than 40k to 80. Nobody's asking for 40k. They were averaging 14k up until this weekend. That's pathetic. And it's not the team's fault. I don't blame ownership either, but I'm clearly in the minority with that.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

I forgot we got Choo for Broussard.

[cozmeesah]

--