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Borowski

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Borowski

Unread postby leadpipe » Wed May 02, 2007 11:35 pm

ERAS's, non-save situations, blah blah blah. If the guy keeps throwing belt high 87 mile an hour fastballs and hangs 80% of his breaking pitches there is no way he is the closer for long. How bout one pitch at the knees this season. Is there anyone who WATCHES this guy pitch that thinks he's going to be effective?
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Unread postby dmcdougal » Wed May 02, 2007 11:38 pm

Look, he's been effective his whole career. He may not have a solid ERA (8.25) or a quick fastball but he gets the job done. He has only blown 1 save this season and he in second in the league in saves. Those, my friend, are the only important numbers.

I would love to trade for a closer in the future. I have said on several occasions here that I am an advocate for a Brad Lidge trade. BUT, we paid this guy for a season to close for us. He is doing a good job CLOSING for us, and we have no one else that can do the job. Keep Borowski in there
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Unread postby leadpipe » Thu May 03, 2007 12:39 am

Are you watching every belt high pitch? I'd be amazed if he lasts. Don't get me wrong, I hope the guy saves 50 games and does well in the post season. But pitching the way he is, I can't see that happening.
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Unread postby dmcdougal » Thu May 03, 2007 12:46 am

I think that your reasoning is wrong and that you expect cleveland to trade for a closer-- something that just doesn't happen, especially in the middle of the season. Borowski is doing just fine. May I remind you that he worked out of the inning tonight.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Thu May 03, 2007 12:54 am

You are putting words into my mouth. I'm not recommending solutions such as trading for a closer. I'm not even necessarily upset about it. All I'm doing is making a casual observation that in my opinion he is going to find trouble sooner than later the way he's hanging everything. And, you really don't need to condecendingly reminding me every time he gets out of an inning. If you think you're watching an effective pitcher that's your opinion, not mine.
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Unread postby dmcdougal » Thu May 03, 2007 1:00 am

so what's the point of this message? So when he blows a lead you can say "I told you so?"
Quit being pessimistic. I would respect you more if you stood by your opinion and said that a change would be needed. How can you hate on a guy but then say you like having him there?

I wouldn't really consider
Are you watching every belt high pitch? I'd be amazed if he lasts
a casual observation. If you don't think he will last, then what will you do instead of Borowski. Obviously, you would trade for a closer or promote someone else that is already in the organization... Wait a minute, I believe that's what I said earlier and you shot it down.

There's no need in getting so defensive. You asked
Is there anyone who WATCHES this guy pitch that thinks he's going to be effective?
and I answered you.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Thu May 03, 2007 2:18 am

1. The point of the message is he doesn't look to me like he's going to consistently get people out.
2. I'm not defensive. Over what? An opinion on a major league baseball closer?
3. I don't need a solution to have an opinion. I'm sorry I didn't think about the whole future of the Tribe pen. I just don't like Borowski's stuff or location. That's all. If I don't have your respect because of this, than that's something I guess I'll have to deal with.
4. As far as the whole "I told you so." I have no master plan here. Just an opinion. Christ. Who cares.
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Unread postby Charboneau » Thu May 03, 2007 8:25 am

Borowski has looked very human this year but a closers job is to close games. In 10 opportunities he has 9 saves. His strikeout to walk ratio is 2:1. His ERA stinks but the outing in NYC killed that given the limited number of innings a closers gets.

I don't think Joe is a world beater but I certainly don't think it's time for us to throw him off a bridge either. Very early in the season. FYI - we're 16-8 and in first place! Enjoy the ride!
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Unread postby dmcdougal » Thu May 03, 2007 8:43 am

thank you, exactly my point.

Borowski is throwing 87 MPH belt-high!! He's almost perfect in save situations but damn i just don't see it working out.... give me a break
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Unread postby swerb » Thu May 03, 2007 9:00 am

This guy was pretty good without a 95 MPH heater ...

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Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu May 03, 2007 10:45 am

I'm not sure if this is right, but it seems to me that without the NYY debacle, Borowski's ERA is 4.41. That's still subpar, but he is managing to get the job done.

Taking away the first game where Borowski did not pitch in a save situation, his ERA is 2.90. That's not awful in a save situation.
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Unread postby sandlot33 » Thu May 03, 2007 10:50 am

Swerb wrote:This guy was pretty good without a 95 MPH heater ...

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you gotta love the 80's porn stache that pretty much every baseball player had back then...classic
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Unread postby Steve Buffum » Thu May 03, 2007 10:55 am

Skating Tripods wrote:Taking away the first game where Borowski did not pitch in a save situation, his ERA is 2.90. That's not awful in a save situation.

Being lazy, I'll ask if you've got it handy: what is his WHIP?
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu May 03, 2007 10:58 am

Steve Buffum wrote:
Skating Tripods wrote:Taking away the first game where Borowski did not pitch in a save situation, his ERA is 2.90. That's not awful in a save situation.

Being lazy, I'll ask if you've got it handy: what is his WHIP?


I'm in class, give me a minute.

That ERA is 2.90 is in save situations.
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu May 03, 2007 11:06 am

Looks like it's 1.25 to me.
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Unread postby Steve Buffum » Thu May 03, 2007 11:14 am

Skating Tripods wrote:Looks like it's 1.25 to me.

Okay, actually, that's not bad. Not everyone is Joe Nathan.

I'm kind of in the "if it ain't broke" vein when it comes to Borowski: we have internal options (Cabrera, Mastny, Eddie Moo), and you simply aren't going to get someone better (raise your hand if you think Cleveland has the greatest need at closer of any team that considers itself a contender) ... I'm willing to whistle past this particular graveyard a bit longer.
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu May 03, 2007 11:21 am

Steve Buffum wrote:Okay, actually, that's not bad. Not everyone is Joe Nathan.

I'm kind of in the "if it ain't broke" vein when it comes to Borowski: we have internal options (Cabrera, Mastny, Eddie Moo), and you simply aren't going to get someone better (raise your hand if you think Cleveland has the greatest need at closer of any team that considers itself a contender) ... I'm willing to whistle past this particular graveyard a bit longer.


I will concur here. I'm willing to take it at this point in the year. In save situations, he's 9/10 with a 2.90 and a 1.25 WHIP. The WHIP is a little high for my liking with someone in the back end of the bullpen, but we dealt with Wickman for the past couple years.
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Unread postby FUDU » Thu May 03, 2007 12:18 pm

He has only blown 1 save this season and he in second in the league in saves. Those, my friend, are the only important numbers.

Those are important numbers b/c they are sexy and on the surface look great but Pipe has a very valid point.

The way in which those numbers are being accumulated is often like Russian roulette. At some point this season Borowski and the Tribe will have to pay the piper if he keeps throwing the stuff he has been throwing the majority of the time.


I'll take the wins the guys is "saving" but hopefully the powers that be with the Indians are noticing this and are working on an alternative for a worst case scenario.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Thu May 03, 2007 3:03 pm

dmcdougal wrote:thank you, exactly my point.

Borowski is throwing 87 MPH belt-high!! He's almost perfect in save situations but damn i just don't see it working out.... give me a break


Because I don't agree with you, this is your post?

Your point is opposite of my point. Great. Isn't that allowed? If you look at my intial post it had very little intention of starting some sort of Nazi uprising against Borowski. Just relaying what I'm seeing.

My last word on this is, I hope you are right.
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Unread postby Dozen » Thu May 03, 2007 4:09 pm

Lead Pipe wrote:
dmcdougal wrote:thank you, exactly my point.

Borowski is throwing 87 MPH belt-high!! He's almost perfect in save situations but damn i just don't see it working out.... give me a break


Because I don't agree with you, this is your post?

Your point is opposite of my point. Great. Isn't that allowed? If you look at my intial post it had very little intention of starting some sort of Nazi uprising against Borowski. Just relaying what I'm seeing.

My last word on this is, I hope you are right.


Newbie post, must be a relative :roll :roll: Who are you to argue with him? :lol: I did say this a month ago though........ viewtopic.php?t=1876
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Unread postby dmcdougal » Thu May 03, 2007 4:31 pm

I apologize for calling you out like that, but I just don't see the point in calling out Borowski and saying that you pretty much think he sucks and that he won't last in the closer role.. but then say that you have no solution and you don't think it's a big deal. But I get that you were just making an observation. We all know that his ERA is not good and he doesnt throw hard but you can't ignore that he's 9/10 from saves so far
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