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Why send Carmona down?

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Why send Carmona down?

Unread postby dmcdougal » Wed May 02, 2007 7:54 pm

Okay, we all knew that Carmona was going to be sent down on Thursday and that Lee would come up. Well, why did we make the move on Tuesday and bring Ben Francisco up for two days? I know that no one could have predicted that Westbrook would leave the game early tonight, but it doesn't make any sense that we would send down Carmona before we needed to. Now we have wasted an option on Carmona and soon it will be two options when we send him back down the the minors. Would someone like to explain why we brought up Ben Francisco for two days
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Unread postby consigliere » Wed May 02, 2007 8:03 pm

Only one option is used. You can send a player up and down as many times as you want in a season, and it all counts as one option. Now, an argument can be made that if Carmona would have stuck we'd never have wasted an option on him, but I believe the Indians could petition and get the option back (injury to a starter).
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Unread postby dmcdougal » Wed May 02, 2007 8:09 pm

thanks for the knowledge. it's been bothering me all week that we would send him down before we need to just because of those important Minor League options
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Unread postby pup » Wed May 02, 2007 8:13 pm

Anyone kow how many options Carmona has left? I wouldn't think he needs to have too many more. If he isn't ready to stick full-time in 1 or 2 more seasons, it is a pretty moot point.
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Unread postby consigliere » Wed May 02, 2007 8:16 pm

Fausto has one option left. So, by sending him down yesterday, this is the laqst year he has options.
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Unread postby pup » Wed May 02, 2007 8:17 pm

So then that is a pretty big option, but one that would have happened anyway at some point, odds are.
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Unread postby paulcousineau » Wed May 02, 2007 11:02 pm

If I'm not mistaken, an option runs for a whole year so Fausto can be shuttled back and forth all of this year.

Next year is when options actually become an issue.
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Unread postby dmcdougal » Wed May 02, 2007 11:35 pm

I didn't want to make a new thread so I'll just post it in here... did anyone catch WTAM tonight when Hamilton was saying "who knows if Wedge will run Barfield here." or "We'll see who Wedge will warm up in the bullpen."

Anyway, it got me thinking about Wedge and his managing style. It made me laugh thinking that Wedge has a Magic 8-Ball in the dugout and when there is a crucial situation (like a sacrifice bunt, hit and run, base stealing opportunity) he just gives it a quick shake. Well, I was crackin up for about a minute when I heard Hammy sayin "Who knows if he will have Barfield run here."

Here's the question though that I may start a poll with. Would this team be any better with an actual "manager," meaning someone who uses more hit and run and steals bases. What I mean is that do you think Wedge doesn't manage because we don't have the right players or does he not manage because he doesn't know how
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Unread postby StewieG » Wed May 02, 2007 11:43 pm

I think it's a little of both. This team is built for home runs and timely hits. There aren't a lot of guys I'd feel comfortable with using the hit-and-run, bunting, etc. But some of his personnel decisions (pinch hitting, going to the bullpen, etc.) are questionable, at best. And I'm not just saying that because they don't work out, but because they're just moronic decisions.

But if you're saying we should fire him now, I don't think there's any way you can. They're in first place, and they're playing great baseball right now, and some of that has to be attributed to Wedge's demeanor around the team, keeping them loose and happy.

If the team goes into a tail spin in May or June (they're 2-0 so far in May though), then you might be able to replace him. But right now? No way. I don't mess with anything on this team unless I can't help it.
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Unread postby dmcdougal » Wed May 02, 2007 11:52 pm

just to clear it up- i am not a "Fire-Wedge" advocate. He is doing a solid job

I am simply speculating on his managing style
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Unread postby Hoover » Wed May 02, 2007 11:53 pm

With Westbrook out, looks like they'll have to get Carmona back on I-90 to the Indians real quick. That's good news out of a bad news situation.
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Unread postby Hoover » Wed May 02, 2007 11:54 pm

The DiaTriber wrote:If I'm not mistaken, an option runs for a whole year so Fausto can be shuttled back and forth all of this year.


Yes, the option lasts all this season. Fausto can be sent up & down to Buffalo X amount of times.
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Unread postby StewieG » Wed May 02, 2007 11:57 pm

dmcdougal wrote:just to clear it up- i am not a "Fire-Wedge" advocate. He is doing a solid job

I am simply speculating on his managing style


No problem. I wasn't sure if that's what you were asking, but thought I'd throw it in even if you weren't :mrgreen:
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Thu May 03, 2007 12:22 am

If Westbrook is moved to the 15-day DL then I believe Carmona can be recalled immediately, right?

Doesn't it feel good to have Miller and Stanford pitching well down in Buffalo? Our pitching depth is a very good thing to have.
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Unread postby consigliere » Thu May 03, 2007 12:41 am

Yes, if Westy is DLed they can recall Carmona right away.

But, I don't forsee that happening right away. Jake's spot in the rotation doesn't come up again for 5 days, and Carmona can't pitch again until Friday on normal rest anyway. I don't believe Carmona will be one of the callups for Thursday's game.

I see Mastny being optioned out and them calling up someone, and also likely one of Francisco/Choo going out for another reliever. So, I see them adding two fresh bull arms to the pen Thursday. Then, when Westy hits the DL, they call up Carmona then.
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Unread postby dmcdougal » Thu May 03, 2007 12:49 am

I don't really see us sending Mastny down there. He has had two solid games in a row and picked up the win today in a crucial inning (he was our last arm). I think that Byrd should be considered as our bullpen arm tomorrow. Then, we can bring up Carmona to start in Byrd's place on Friday. We will probably send Francisco down though to bring up an arm.
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Unread postby StewieG » Thu May 03, 2007 1:29 am

Francisco goes down. That's a given. But Lee comes up in his place.

You pretty much have to do something with either Jason Davis or Tom Mastny. Our bullpen for tomorrow night consists of Borowski, Davis, and Fultz. That's it. Byrd can go if we need a long man, and you might be able to coax an inning out of Oldberto, but we'll probably need at least one more reliever to come up for tomorrow.

To do that, you have to either option Mastny to Buffalo (I think he's the only guy left in the pen with options) or you have to DFA Jason Davis.

If you don't trust Jason Davis, then it stands to reason that he should be the one to go. BUT, that doesn't solve the problem of having enough arms in the bullpen for tomorrow night, plus you've just lost your long man (not that it mattered tonight. Wedge didn't put him in when the situation arose, and when he finally did go in, he only pitched a third of an inning and walked about 54 batters).

If they don't trust JD, and there's someone else in the minors that can be a long man (Stanford? Mujica? Slocum?), then you might as well get rid of him and call one of those guys up. But as much as I hate to say it, you really do have to consider sending Mastny down. I really don't think he'll be able to pitch tomorrow, and it's probably iffy if he or Cabrera can pitch on Friday, either. Cabrera looked really gassed. If Lee ends up going 7 innings, then great. Caution for nothing. But if he gets hurt again, or ends up being ineffective, you're effed.
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Unread postby consigliere » Thu May 03, 2007 9:24 am

I don't see Paul Byrd being used out of the bullpen at all.

Masty has pitched two straight nights, is unavailable tonight, and is the only reliever with options. He is the likely one to be sent down. He'll be right back up in 10 days though. There is also the possibility Davis is DFAed (I'll cry with joy if this happens).
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Unread postby dmcdougal » Thu May 03, 2007 10:08 am

I wouldn't normally use Byrd either but it makes sense tonight if we are in a jam.
We are likely bringing Carmona back up after the injury to Westbrook. His normal day in the rotation would be on Friday, which is when Byrd is starting. We could throw Byrd tonight if something happens with Cliff (only on a "need-to" basis) and be able to recover with Fausto in his spot.

The bullpen is taxed and we may need a long arm tonight since Cliff is making his first start of the season. Byrd is a good candidate.
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