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Appeal Denied

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Appeal Denied

Unread postby MadThinker88 » Wed May 02, 2007 1:54 pm

:x :mad: :-x Fine.

Remove home games from Jacobs Field and have the Tribe play them in Milwaukee and Seattle.

:evil: Fine.

Thank you for the extra incentive fellas. Now watch this team crush opponents all year long.
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Unread postby FUDU » Wed May 02, 2007 1:57 pm

Call me crazy but it appears MLB is really out to fuck the Tribe this year.

Pretty unbelievable if you ask me.
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Unread postby Dozen » Wed May 02, 2007 2:02 pm

Why even have protests then? Painful :twisted:
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Unread postby pup » Wed May 02, 2007 3:05 pm

The only reason for the appeal to be upheld is because of the timing of the decision. Had it been a one run game, you would see a different outcome. Bottom line is the call was correct, and anyone who thinks Wedge would manage differently because of that run...well you must think Wedge manages in games to begin with.

Not that big of a deal.
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed May 02, 2007 3:18 pm

If it weren't for Fultz's continued suckfest, we'd have won anyway. We had our shot at that one and let it get away. As a Clevelander, however, in the event that we miss the playoffs by a game, I might point to that gem.

If we didn't have to make up an entire four-game series, anyone think we'd have had a different result with the appeal?

I hope, if nothing else, this forces MLB to look at its bogus rule. The play should be appealed immediately, not an inning later. The problem here is the umpires, not the rule, but in the event of incompetence, it's still a bullshit rule.
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Unread postby Birdman » Wed May 02, 2007 3:50 pm

Obviously the final call was the correct one but according to the rules the Orioles needed to address the issue before the start of the next inning. At least this is what was said by the announcing team.

This seems like a pretty good example of an appeal that should have been granted. Why even have appeals if the rules aren't followed?
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Unread postby pup » Wed May 02, 2007 4:03 pm

Making it up is not that big of a deal. They would play the last few innings over, starting with the bottom of the inning that the run was scored, not counted. It could be done in an hour before the Birds next trip to the Jake (assuming they make one).

Had the run been the difference in the game, it would have been granted. It didn't matter, so I am sure the Tribe got a nice little letter saying sorry, but other than that, no big deal. If they miss the playoffs by one game, and you are going to point to this one call...you are grasping at some serious straws.

The rules were followed. The umpires got the call correct. And I don't think the Orioles pointed out the mistake. According to the umpires, he had been thinking about it in the back of his mind and finally came to the conclusion he acted incorrectly, all on his own.
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed May 02, 2007 4:14 pm

Pup wrote:If they miss the playoffs by one game, and you are going to point to this one call...you are grasping at some serious straws.


Nah, I was just being sarcastic. One run didn't make that game. I'd point more to events like Borowski's implosion in the Bronx. Or the bullshit September road trip mid-month, if we have a bad trip.
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Unread postby consigliere » Wed May 02, 2007 5:02 pm

I disagree Pup.

Look, I get the final outcome was like 7-4, so the 1-run technically did not matter.

But, the point here, is the score went from 2-2 to 3-2. We were forced to pitch and manage from behind, which (even with Wedge) is much different than pitching and playing from ahead or tied late in games. Who's to say if it is actually only 4-4 in the 9th (and not 5-4) that we go with the pitcher we went with there?

Had the appeal been upheld, the score would have gone back to 2-2 in the 6th inning I believe.
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Unread postby pup » Wed May 02, 2007 8:09 pm

But, the point here, is the score went from 2-2 to 3-2. We were forced to pitch and manage from behind, which (even with Wedge) is much different than pitching and playing from ahead or tied late in games. Who's to say if it is actually only 4-4 in the 9th (and not 5-4) that we go with the pitcher we went with there?


See, you are coming from a perspective that the run they had, they did not deserve. The only time it would make a difference in the "choices" in the game is th time between not allowing the run and then allowing it. The run should have been counted from the outset. The umpires made a mistake. They should be fined/dealt with appropriately, but to think Wedge manages different between those two points is wrong.

Had the appeal been upheld, the score would have gone back to 2-2 in the 6th inning I believe.


No way. It would have gone back to 3-2 in whatever inning the Orioles scored. There is no way they are taking that run away from Baltimore.
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Unread postby consigliere » Wed May 02, 2007 8:12 pm

Pup wrote:No way. It would have gone back to 3-2 in whatever inning the Orioles scored. There is no way they are taking that run away from Baltimore.


Nope. Putting the score back to 3-2....which is what the score was anyway, would make no sense. According to reports, had the protest been upheld, the score would have gone back to 2-2 in the inning the
"run" was added. That was the whole point of the protest....which was adding a run three innings later.
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Unread postby pup » Wed May 02, 2007 8:16 pm

According to reports, had the protest been upheld, the score would have gone back to 2-2 in the inning the
"run" was added. That was the whole point of the protest....which was adding a run three innings later.


I find it hard to believe that MLB would take a run away from a team, that actually did score the run. That would never happen. The run counted, the only reason for the protest is because of when they decided to count it.
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Unread postby consigliere » Wed May 02, 2007 8:28 pm

The whole point of the protest was not whether the call was right or not (the call was right). The point was that they made the correction 3 innings later. The Indians protested that the run should not have been corrected and added three innings later, which was a legitimate beef.

What's next? Will they overturn HR calls later in games? What happens with debated fair/foul or yellow line or not HRs? What if later in the game they decide it was/wasn't a HR? That is what the Indians were protesting. You cannot make a change once the play is over and play has resumed.

I mean, it would be like the Browns being tied with the Bengals 10-10 in the 3rd quearter.....but a TD the Bengals scored earlier was nullified because the player supposedly did not have full possession of the ball so they didn't give them the TD originally, but while it clearly was a catch and after talking about it for a quarter, decided to give it to them and make the score 17-10 Bengals.
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Unread postby pup » Wed May 02, 2007 10:15 pm

The whole point of the protest was not whether the call was right or not (the call was right). The point was that they made the correction 3 innings later. The Indians protested that the run should not have been corrected and added three innings later, which was a legitimate beef


Then it is a stupid protest, because they had no chance to win that. MLB is never going to overturn a run that should have counted, counting. There is no legitimate beef, because the Orioles are the ones being screwed if the run is not allowed, so how is that any more fair? It's not, but it would go our way, so it would be cool. Should the run have counted? Yes. Did the run end up counting? Yes. The Indians should have known the rule just like the Orioles and the umpires and been playing as if that run scored, because at some point, if someone caught on, it was going to count.

What's next? Will they overturn HR calls later in games? What happens with debated fair/foul or yellow line or not HRs? What if later in the game they decide it was/wasn't a HR? That is what the Indians were protesting. You cannot make a change once the play is over and play has resumed.


Not even close tot he same thing. The only thing that would be even close is if there was a debate to what the yellow line meant. They fucked up a rule. There was no judgement. They was no debate as to what happened. Everyone knows the run counted, but the ump made a mistake. Those are judgement calls, that are missed all the time and never overturned.

I mean, it would be like the Browns being tied with the Bengals 10-10 in the 3rd quearter.....but a TD the Bengals scored earlier was nullified because the player supposedly did not have full possession of the ball so they didn't give them the TD originally, but while it clearly was a catch and after talking about it for a quarter, decided to give it to them and make the score 17-10 Bengals.


Another terrible analogy. That is another judgment call, that would never be overturned later. There is no comparison for what happened in this situation, so stop trying to come up with them.

You guys really think the MLB offices ahve something against the Indians? If the wrong thing happened, the appeal would have been granted. It wasn't, because there is no reasonable solution. In the end, the umpired made the correct call. It had no bearing on the game.
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed May 02, 2007 10:17 pm

The whole thing hindered on the ruling of a team appealing a play. I don't know what it is, but if the rule says that they have to say something before the next half inning is played, Baltimore failed to do that and the Indians had a legitimate argument, regardless of the run scored ruling.
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Unread postby pup » Wed May 02, 2007 10:26 pm

The Orioles did not appeal the play, at the time, or later. The umpire realized his mistake and amde the change, but that is not relavent. The only relavent part to the discussion is how many times did a Oriole cross home plate to score a run? Is that how many runs the Orioles scored? Yes. End of discussion.
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