Cleveland Indians & MLB

by **motherscratcher** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:21 pm

^^I owe you an apology, Pup. I always thought that you were a cold, unimaginative, tight lipped poster. But you're really ... quite emotional. Aren't you?

by **RedDawg53** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:23 pm

How much more $$$$$ did Thome leave for again?

by **motherscratcher** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:24 pm

HBT reporting that Thome claimed by the Tribe and Kubel claimed by the White Sox.

They also note that it's unlikely Kubel goes anywhere because he'll be a type B, possibly type A free agent and the Twins will want cmopensation at least comparable to the lost draft picks. Something I hadn't considered.
[url]
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/ ... son-kubel/[/url]

by **Kingpin74** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:34 pm

Rosenthal reported that Thome wants Philly (he just had one anonymous source). But for that to happen, he'd have to finagle the release waiver rules, give up around 500 grand in salary, and piss a lot of other teams off, not to mention the fact that his Cleveland legacy would go from a feel good, water-under-the-bridge homecoming to a baseball mini-LeBron.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/MLB- ... sox-082511

by **RedDawg53** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:56 pm

Kingpin74 wrote:Rosenthal reported that Thome wants Philly (he just had one anonymous source). But for that to happen, he'd have to finagle the release waiver rules, give up around 500 grand in salary, and piss a lot of other teams off, not to mention the fact that his Cleveland legacy would go from a feel good, water-under-the-bridge homecoming to a baseball mini-LeBron.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/MLB- ... sox-082511

I think the source is made up by either Rosenthal or FoxSports. And why a team in the NL? When was the last time Thome put on a mit besides shagging balls during batting practice? If he does "choose" Philly over Cleveland, and he actually says he wants to go there. :fu:

(forget the wave part, it'll be the middle finger)

by **peeker643** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:58 pm

Bastian says via Twitter Indians have until 1Pm tomorrow to negotiate deal with Twins and see if Thome will waive no-trade and that his preference is Philly.

And if it's hard to figure out between Charlie Manuel and the Phillies being a legit WS contender why Thome would prefer Philly, well, I can't help ya much.

by **Kingpin74** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:05 pm

peeker643 wrote:And if it's hard to figure out between Charlie Manuel and the Phillies being a legit WS contender why Thome would prefer Philly, well, I can't help ya much.

Of course, but there's a difference between choosing Philly on equal footing and choosing Philly by affirmatively stepping on Cleveland, his legacy, and the waiver process.

by **aclayman** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:23 pm

Re: Thome/Philly... Certainly can understand signing with a title contender in your last year or two to try and get a ring... if you sign in the offseason and ride that wave to the end. But how rewarding will it really feel to be a part-time pinch hitter for a month on that championship team? Maybe a ring is a ring is a ring. But sure seems like a cheap, desperate way to reach a goal.

by **GodHatesClevelandSport** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:25 pm

Kingpin74 wrote:
peeker643 wrote:And if it's hard to figure out between Charlie Manuel and the Phillies being a legit WS contender why Thome would prefer Philly, well, I can't help ya much.

Of course, but there's a difference between choosing Philly on equal footing and choosing Philly by affirmatively stepping on Cleveland, his legacy, and the waiver process.

His legacy.

LOL

People in Cleveland booed him for YEARS following his departure. What's he owe them?

Know what a legacy is? 600+ HRs and a WS ring. Nice way to go out.

by **peeker643** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:42 pm

Kingpin74 wrote:
peeker643 wrote:And if it's hard to figure out between Charlie Manuel and the Phillies being a legit WS contender why Thome would prefer Philly, well, I can't help ya much.

Of course, but there's a difference between choosing Philly on equal footing and choosing Philly by affirmatively stepping on Cleveland, his legacy, and the waiver process.

Again, he's not stepping on Cleveland. He's earned the no-trade clause honestly and would rather be somewhere else with a better chance to win and playing for a guy who's his psuedo-father. Like GHCS, whether people here want to believe it or not, his legacy is currently 600+ HRs and no rings.

And it's not the place of Jim Thome to worry about the waiver rules. The whole GD system in baseball is slanted toward teams with money. Those are the teams with a chance to win. Therefore those are the teams guys who play only for a chance to win will gravitate to.

We're also assuming the Indians and Twins can make a deal. My sense is that with the respect Thome has deservedly earned everywhere except here, if he doesn't want to play here the Twins will say they couldn't reach a deal, the Indians will say they put together an offer they thought was fair and then Thome will look for a way to Philly.

I think if he wants to play one more year he comes here. If he's truly looking to get out after this season he ends up in Philly.

As to 'cheap' rings, I just don't think they're ever that. Not for someone on the active roster.

by **GodHatesClevelandSport** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:51 pm

peeker643 wrote:
As to 'cheap' rings, I just don't think they're ever that. Not for someone on the active roster.

Bernie Kosar had his "cheap" ring very proudly displayed on his middle finger during the Browns exhibition broadcast last week.

by **Kingpin74** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:03 pm

GodHatesClevelandSport wrote:
Kingpin74 wrote:
peeker643 wrote:And if it's hard to figure out between Charlie Manuel and the Phillies being a legit WS contender why Thome would prefer Philly, well, I can't help ya much.

Of course, but there's a difference between choosing Philly on equal footing and choosing Philly by affirmatively stepping on Cleveland, his legacy, and the waiver process.

His legacy.

LOL

People in Cleveland booed him for YEARS following his departure. What's he owe them?

Know what a legacy is? 600+ HRs and a WS ring. Nice way to go out.

I meant his legacy here. Obviously his overall legacy will be great. But however it happened, this is a chance to let bygones be bygones and erase the animosity on both sides. But you're both right, the no-trade clause is a privilege that he contracted for and earned.

by **fairvis** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:04 pm

You can't call Bernie's ring "cheap". He played 4 games filling in for Aikman, including the second half of the NFC Title game. Completely different then sitting on the bench as a PH.

by **peeker643** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:06 pm

GodHatesClevelandSport wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
As to 'cheap' rings, I just don't think they're ever that. Not for someone on the active roster.

Bernie Kosar had his "cheap" ring very proudly displayed on his middle finger during the Browns exhibition broadcast last week.

He won a playoff game. And so could Thome. I agree with ya. A guy on the DL all year? That's more of an argument that there was a lack of contribution, although dude still bled and ached in his role.

Thome wins a game in any series with a hit or whatever that the Phillies may not otherwise win? I just don't see any 'cheap' in that. No lifetime achievement WS rings as far as I'm concerned.

MMV for others. I get that.

by **peeker643** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:11 pm

fairvis wrote:You can't call Bernie's ring "cheap". He played 4 games filling in for Aikman, including the second half of the NFC Title game. Completely different then sitting on the bench as a PH.

If the White Sox or Yankees win the World Series are Adam Dunn's or Jorge Posada's rings 'cheap'?

Not picking on you Fairvis. I just think this is interesting topic. You could argue Dunn and Posada have been useless and almost detriments to their teams. Do they 'earn' their rings by being on the club for a full season?

Again, not being a dick (intentionally anyway). ;-) ;) :wink:

by **aclayman** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:16 pm

Yeah, I don't really believe in "cheap rings" either, necessarily. I'm just one of the weird people who think their value is extremely overstated in the judgment of someone's individual career. Basketball might be the lone exception, because great players really can overcome an average supporting cast and win a title. But baseball? Random and meaningless in judging somebody's contributions to the game. Obviously, it's meaningful to the player himself, for the thrill of the accomplishment, theoretically. But what if you had next to nothing to do with that accomplishment? Assuming Thome goes 0-4 with 3 K's in the World Series but the Phillies win it all, will he remember his Philly title more fondly than his dozens of homers as a star with the '90s Indians postseason teams? And yeah, I get that Jim would probably just enjoy being back in a postseason and celebrating with Papa Manuel, so that's fine. I have no issue with him wanting to go there. I just don't think that the chase for the ring means a hell of a lot when you just take a cab to the finish line. Not meaningLESS maybe. But it's hard to see that being a 100% satisfying triumph.

by **aclayman** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:21 pm

Dunn example: Difference is that the dude was there for the whole show, better or worse. The ring is a team award, and he was part of the team for better or worse. The Thome thing is more like an actor coming on stage only for the final bow. Definitely an interesting topic.

by **peeker643** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:21 pm

aclayman wrote:Yeah, I don't really believe in "cheap rings" either, necessarily. I'm just one of the weird people who think their value is extremely overstated in the judgment of someone's individual career. Basketball might be the lone exception, because great players really can overcome an average supporting cast and win a title. But baseball? Random and meaningless in judging somebody's contributions to the game. Obviously, it's meaningful to the player himself, for the thrill of the accomplishment, theoretically. But what if you had next to nothing to do with that accomplishment? Assuming Thome goes 0-4 with 3 K's in the World Series but the Phillies win it all, will he remember his Philly title more fondly than his dozens of homers as a star with the '90s Indians postseason teams? And yeah, I get that Jim would probably just enjoy being back in a postseason and celebrating with Papa Manuel, so that's fine. I have no issue with him wanting to go there. I just don't think that the chase for the ring means a hell of a lot when you just take a cab to the finish line. Not meaningLESS maybe. But it's hard to see that being a 100% satisfying triumph.

Agreed. The ring means more to him than those judging his legacy in baseball. I just think that's enough to sway him that way as opposed to hitting 4 -6 more HRs here and 'mending fences' so to speak. And I think it would be justified on his part.

He'd mean more here to us because of the situation but that, to me, doesn't mean him wanting to go to Philly would be without merit/justification or that he's wrong in looking at it that way.

by **fairvis** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:45 pm

There's always room for the "glue guy" anyways. If Ohio State had won the national title with Eddie Days this past year, I don't think that anyone would say that Eddie got a "cheap" ring out of it, even though he didn't score a point in his career until he got into the tournament. Going through as a short-term rental is a little different to me since there is a much shorter time period that someone can contribute.

If Thome ends up going to the Phillies, I do understand, since he does want to win a championship. How he contributes will be unknown, but there's always the chance for a Kirk Gibson moment in his one at-bat. Even without that on-field performance, I'm sure he'll contribute off the field, but the limited time that he was there has to diminish the accomplishment, at least a little bit.

by **WiscTribeFan** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:52 pm

The interesting thing during this period is teams putting guys on waivers with no real intention of dealing them. Cubs with Carlos Pena, Astros with Wandy, Twins with Kubel. Why go through this exercise if at the end of the day you wouldn't deal him whether he's claimed or not? Just seems kinda stupid.

With his no trade clause, this is far from a done deal. He could work out a deal with the Twins to release him and he could sign with whomever he wants.

I don't his return happening.

by **peeker643** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:06 pm

fairvis wrote:There's always room for the "glue guy" anyways. If Ohio State had won the national title with Eddie Days this past year, I don't think that anyone would say that Eddie got a "cheap" ring out of it, even though he didn't score a point in his career until he got into the tournament. Going through as a short-term rental is a little different to me since there is a much shorter time period that someone can contribute.

If Thome ends up going to the Phillies, I do understand, since he does want to win a championship. How he contributes will be unknown, but there's always the chance for a Kirk Gibson moment in his one at-bat. Even without that on-field performance, I'm sure he'll contribute off the field, but the limited time that he was there has to diminish the accomplishment, at least a little bit.

Gotcha. Appreciate the explanantion and agree to an extent.

by **skatingtripods** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:19 pm

By all accounts, Thome had every intention of retiring after hitting #600. Why would he want to come here to play out the string with a team rapidly falling out of contention when he could go to PHI and take one AB per game and watch their pitching staff do work? I can't blame the guy. Will make him a dick in the eyes of the idiots who already boo him for no good reason, but whatever.

Guy owes us nothing. He owes it to himself and his career to try and win a WS.

by **WiscTribeFan** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:31 pm

Tony on FB just blurted that Triv said on air that Thome WILL be an Indian and will probably start on Friday.

(I heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend who heard it from another you've been messing around...)

Third hand, but looks like it might have some legs.

by **StewieG** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:24 pm

PJ Zeigler, of Fox 8, says Thome has waived no-trade clause and will come to Cleveland.

by **RedDawg53** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:25 pm

"They ain't no 'cheap" championship rings." = John Sally. Just ask him about his 4 NBA rings.

by **Kingpin74** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:03 pm

Two months ago, I decided to throw a Tribe game party for two friends who each recently had their first kids. I therefore traded in a bunch of my unused season tickets for 12 prime lower box tickets to the Friday, August 26 game against the Royals. Could be decent timing, huh?

by **peeker643** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:31 pm

I just hope they get him so many can jump off the Hate/Indifference-Wagon and onto the Unreasonable Expectations/He'll-Carry-Them-Wagon.

I love watching things like that.

by **jfiling** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:05 pm

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/08/t ... dians.html

by **peeker643** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:06 pm

Yep:

Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
by MLBastian
Jim Thome has accepted a deal to the Indians.

by **skatingtripods** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:08 pm

Over/under first AB standing O: 1 min 25 sec.

I'll be at the Incubus concert, so somebody else will have to time it.

by **Orenthal** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:10 pm

World Series! Then again I've always been a Thome fanboi. Cause he is white and all...

by **peeker643** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:14 pm

skatingtripods wrote:Over/under first AB standing O: 1 min 25 sec.

I'll be at the Incubus concert, so somebody else will have to time it.

Wish I could walk. I'd head down.

Anyone have a Rascal they're willing to rent? ;-) ;) :wink:

by **skatingtripods** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:16 pm

peeker643 wrote:Wish I could walk. I'd head down.

I'll be there Saturday. I can push your wheelchair right up to the spot next to me on the Porch. I have bleacher seats, but it'll really be amateur hour with Thome back in town. Thinking I'm standing.

by **peeker643** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:23 pm

skatingtripods wrote:
peeker643 wrote:Wish I could walk. I'd head down.

I'll be there Saturday. I can push your wheelchair right up to the spot next to me on the Porch. I have bleacher seats, but it'll really be amateur hour with Thome back in town. Thinking I'm standing.

You're lending me a wheelchair? Sweet. Still holding out for a scooter.

Saturday though? We'll miss Thome's first three HRs on Friday :-(

by **dazindiansfanuk** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:24 pm

Looks like done deal for a PTBNL

by **skatingtripods** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:27 pm

peeker643 wrote:You're lending me a wheelchair? Sweet. Still holding out for a scooter.

Maybe you can get a Life Alert express mailed to you by Saturday too. I'll work on getting you a Segway, but you can't operate it near a cliff.

Saturday though? We'll miss Thome's first three HRs on Friday :-(

That's ok. We'll see him hit for the HR Cycle on Saturday.

by **peeker643** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:46 pm

skatingtripods wrote:
peeker643 wrote:You're lending me a wheelchair? Sweet. Still holding out for a scooter.

Maybe you can get a Life Alert express mailed to you by Saturday too. I'll work on getting you a Segway, but you can't operate it near a cliff.

Saturday though? We'll miss Thome's first three HRs on Friday :-(

That's ok. We'll see him hit for the HR Cycle on Saturday.

You have to stand on a Segway. I saw 'Paul Blart Mall Cop' with kids. I know this to be true.

I'm in for Saturday. I hope the triple is in his last at bat. Because a triple would be his LAST at bat.

by **mjr2013** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:47 pm

Hey guys, I'm new here... I'm a Tigers fan in metro Detroit (I know, "boo, hiss"), but I come in peace.

Having a diplomat between the Michigan and Ohio sports fans (I'm on the Tigers main message board too under a different username) can help both sides.

I'm also an umpire in Little League's and have gotten great reviews over my rules knowledge.

If you have any questions feel free to shoot me a message or email or whatever the set up is here (haven't gotten a chance to check it out yet).

Just to avoid the questions later, yes, I am also a Wolverines fan. I'm probably not going to discuss any UM or OSU college sports here because I'm very outnumbered. :)

In regards to you guys getting Thome though, us Tigers fans aren't real happy about it... Thome has crushed the Tigers in his career, hitting a .296 average with 66 home runs and 152 RBI's in 213 games.

Hafner had hit well against us to (.270 - 21 HR - 67 RBI) in 114 games, but not like Thome has.

by **Am I Here Again?** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:48 pm

WiscTribeFan wrote:The interesting thing during this period is teams putting guys on waivers with no real intention of dealing them. Cubs with Carlos Pena, Astros with Wandy, Twins with Kubel. Why go through this exercise if at the end of the day you wouldn't deal him whether he's claimed or not? Just seems kinda stupid.

Actually teams do that to judge the worth of a player they want to keep. Does another team bite? Is there any interest at all for someone dangling in the air? I know the BoSux put Carl Crawford up for just that reason. Guy is stinkin' up Fenway but not only do the Sux not plan on him going anywhere who in their right mind would want him under the existing terms of his contract? (Six years left for a total of $128M.)

It would be nice if Thome came back "home" but I can see him going to Philly to helping our cousin's team win a WS - and get his ring.

by **dazindiansfanuk** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:49 pm

Am I Here Again? wrote:It would be nice if Thome came back "home" but I can see him going to Philly to helping our cousin's team win a WS - and get his ring.

The deal's official.

He's an Indian again.

by **skatingtripods** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:50 pm

peeker643 wrote:You have to stand on a Segway. I saw 'Paul Blart Mall Cop' with kids. I know this to be true.

I'll get you a one-legged Segway. Or, I'll just amputate in the parking garage and give you Lieutenant Dan legs.

I'm in for Saturday. I hope the triple is in his last at bat. Because a triple would be his LAST at bat.

The HR Cycle. Solo, 2R, 3R, GS. Not an actual cycle. Two outfielders would have to hit landmines and the other would have to be picking dandelions like a 6 year old for Thome to triple.

by **peeker643** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:50 pm

Am I Here Again? wrote:
WiscTribeFan wrote:The interesting thing during this period is teams putting guys on waivers with no real intention of dealing them. Cubs with Carlos Pena, Astros with Wandy, Twins with Kubel. Why go through this exercise if at the end of the day you wouldn't deal him whether he's claimed or not? Just seems kinda stupid.

Actually teams do that to judge the worth of a player they want to keep. Does another team bite? Is there any interest at all for someone dangling in the air? I know the BoSux put Carl Crawford up for just that reason. Guy is stinkin' up Fenway but not only do the Sux not plan on him going anywhere who in their right mind would want him under the existing terms of his contract? (Six years left for a total of $128M.)

It would be nice if Thome came back "home" but I can see him going to Philly to helping our cousin's team win a WS - and get his ring.

He's officially back AIHA. For a PTBNL.

by **peeker643** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:53 pm

skatingtripods wrote:The HR Cycle. Solo, 2R, 3R, GS. Not an actual cycle. Two outfielders would have to hit landmines and the other would have to be picking dandelions like a 6 year old for Thome to triple.

Or maybe a Zeke Carerra-type is in the KC OF. Misses on dive and comes up in a whirl with his throw.

by **skatingtripods** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:54 pm

peeker643 wrote:Or maybe a Zeke Carerra-type is in the KC OF. Misses on dive and comes up in a whirl with his throw.

With Gordon, who might throw Thome out on an oppo single at 1B, Melky, and Francoeur, I'd give you a better shot at staying healthy for a whole year than Thome tripling.

by **peeker643** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:56 pm

Jamey Carroll was put on waivers today. Get him back and it'll be a reunion worth attending. ;-) ;) :wink:

by **skatingtripods** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:57 pm

peeker643 wrote:Jamey Carroll was put on waivers today. Get him back and it'll be a reunion worth attending.

That would mean we'd have to unfree Cord Phelps. Also would mean Al would off himself.

by **Am I Here Again?** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:59 pm

Yup, saw that on cleveland.com after I left here.

Party at my house!

Um, peek, do you need some pop or something? What with your painkillers and all I don't want to kill YOU!

by **peeker643** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:00 pm

skatingtripods wrote:
peeker643 wrote:Jamey Carroll was put on waivers today. Get him back and it'll be a reunion worth attending.

That would mean we'd have to unfree Cord Phelps. Also would mean Al would off himself.

Win-win-win.

:nanner:

by **skatingtripods** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:01 pm

peeker643 wrote:Win-win-win.

Don't dance like that. You'll break a hip.

by **GtX11** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:01 pm

He's Back

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/news/a ... e&c_id=cle

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