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Carmona Down, Francisco Up

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Carmona Down, Francisco Up

Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Tue May 01, 2007 4:21 pm

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/news ... p&sid=t422

Not sure where Francisco fits in a crowded outfield. I like him better than many of the guys we've got playing, so I hope they give him some ABs. He also brings good defense.

It was a foregone conclusion that Carmona would be sent down unless a trade cropped up. At least we know we're six pitchers deep, probably closer to eight deep with Miller & Stanford in Buffalo.
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue May 01, 2007 4:22 pm

Why would they call up Francisco? The OF's crowded enough. Unless of course the idea behind the Byrd rumors surrounds an OF like Choo or something. This leads me to believe that they don't think Inglett's ready to contribute yet.

Edit: On second thought, maybe Nixon's a bit banged up and they're going to give him a few nights off in the near future.
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Unread postby dmcdougal » Tue May 01, 2007 4:32 pm

Francisco is just up until Lee comes back from the DL, so what like 2 days? not a big deal
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue May 01, 2007 4:35 pm

dmcdougal wrote:Francisco is just up until Lee comes back from the DL, so what like 2 days? not a big deal


Then why not wait the two days and swap Carmona for Lee straight up? It's not like they need another twig on the bench.
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Unread postby MadThinker88 » Tue May 01, 2007 4:35 pm

I was surprised Francisco came up as well. Maybe they plan to send down Choo when they activate Lee.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Tue May 01, 2007 5:00 pm

It's not whom they brought up, it's whom they sent down.
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Unread postby Kuiper » Tue May 01, 2007 5:19 pm

Skating Tripods wrote:
dmcdougal wrote:Francisco is just up until Lee comes back from the DL, so what like 2 days? not a big deal


Then why not wait the two days and swap Carmona for Lee straight up? It's not like they need another twig on the bench.


This way, they throw Francisco a bone and reward him for good play in TC and in the beginning of the season. They also get to give him a shot playing in a game that matters rather than waiting until rosters expand. Since Fausto just pitched and would not be a help at all for the next couple of days, they had a small window of opportunity. Wiating a couple of days and swapping Carmona for Lee just wastes the roster spot for a couple of days.
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Unread postby consigliere » Tue May 01, 2007 5:34 pm

Sort of surprised it was Francisco and not Gutierrez. Personally, I prefer B-Fran....but still sort of surprised it was not Franklin.

Interesting move though. Sending Carmona down now to get an extra RHed bat here for a few days.

Will be interesting to see who goes down when Lee is activated. It would have to be Francisco or Choo....or someone going on the DL. I haven't paid too much attention over the weekend, but is Michaels, Nixon, or Dellucci hurt? I know Dellucci was banged up, is he still hindered with the injury?
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Unread postby Steve Buffum » Tue May 01, 2007 5:37 pm

Consigliere wrote:I know Dellucci was banged up, is he still hindered with the injury?

Yes, he is still hobbled with chronic Being David Dellucci.
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Unread postby MadThinker88 » Tue May 01, 2007 5:40 pm

I think Choo came up because of the injury to Delucci and health items Trot is dealing with.

Consider this: removing Blake from the 1b/OF mix meant we were down a RH bat in the outfield.

Once Marte comes off the DL, it will be interesting to see what moves are made then.
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue May 01, 2007 5:42 pm

Kuiper wrote:
Skating Tripods wrote:
dmcdougal wrote:Francisco is just up until Lee comes back from the DL, so what like 2 days? not a big deal


Then why not wait the two days and swap Carmona for Lee straight up? It's not like they need another twig on the bench.


This way, they throw Francisco a bone and reward him for good play in TC and in the beginning of the season. They also get to give him a shot playing in a game that matters rather than waiting until rosters expand. Since Fausto just pitched and would not be a help at all for the next couple of days, they had a small window of opportunity. Wiating a couple of days and swapping Carmona for Lee just wastes the roster spot for a couple of days.

Right, I get that, but now I'll ask for clarification.

What is the rule on sending a player down? If I remember correctly, they have to be there for 10 days, right? Barring an emergency.

I just don't understand why they bring out outfielder number 6. Like I said earlier, the only logical explanation is that Inglett isn't ready yet. I'd much rather see an IF up here, but most of them probably have to clear waivers on the way down (Rivas, Ginter, etc.)

And Francisco probably won't play in a game anyway, so I don't really see this as a chance for him to get big league playing experience.
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Unread postby consigliere » Tue May 01, 2007 6:09 pm

Easiest explanation is they need a RHed bat. Inglett doesn't hit RHed. I think you very well could see Choo sent down and Francisco stay up when Lee is activated. Francisco may have been up before Choo, but the only reason Choo was brought up in the first place was because Dellucci/Nixon were banged up.
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue May 01, 2007 6:18 pm

Consigliere wrote:Easiest explanation is they need a RHed bat. Inglett doesn't hit RHed. I think you very well could see Choo sent down and Francisco stay up when Lee is activated. Francisco may have been up before Choo, but the only reason Choo was brought up in the first place was because Dellucci/Nixon were banged up.

I guess.

Choo > Dellucci. Waste of money.
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Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Tue May 01, 2007 6:19 pm

Choo is a streak hitter

francisco is the better of the two
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Unread postby pup » Tue May 01, 2007 6:28 pm

Players must remain down for 10 days. There is no minimum for being up at the Major League level, IIRC.
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Unread postby swerb » Tue May 01, 2007 6:32 pm

Yeah, they can send BFran right back down if needbe.

And I still can't believe we gave Dellucci three years and all that jack.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Tue May 01, 2007 7:55 pm

Swerb wrote:Yeah, they can send BFran right back down if needbe.

And I still can't believe we gave Dellucci three years and all that jack.


Can't argue with that. The third year is the puzzler to me. He's pretty cheap as older Big Leaguers go, but I do think that one of Choo, Gutierrez, and Francisco could have filled the spot more effectively and cheaper. Was not a fan of the Dellucci signing and am still not. It's an example of Shapiro not always trusting his farm talent.

My bet is that we never would have signed Dellucci if we had been able (or willing) to sign Nixon earlier. Waiting on Nixon, however, likely lowered his asking price and contract length. A one year deal for a guy who gets on base like Nixon can is okay in my book. Dellucci's contract isn't ginormous, so I could see us trading him down the line to a team who wants a LHed bat. We won't get much, but we can at least deal part of the salary. I'd love to try to deal him now.

We'd be better off, IMHO with Choo, Michaels, Sizemore, Nixon, Francisco as our available OFers. I can dig a Nixon/Michaels platoon in LF and a Francisco/Choo platoon in RF, though I think Francisco will be needing and deserving ABs against righties.

When Dellucci is healthy, I could see some teams having an interest. He's a platoon player but is very capable of posting an OPS of .800+ against RHed hitting. AAA and AA are chock full of OFers. I'd rather just eat some of Dellucci's salary, trade him for a PTNL, and call it a day. I doubt Shapiro would do it.

This call-up for Francisco is not going to amount to much. We're not facing any lefty starter against Toronto. He might get to be a pinch hitter and/or pinch runner. My heart hopes that something is up with Dellucci. My head says no chance.
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Unread postby Kuiper » Tue May 01, 2007 8:53 pm

Mr. MacPhisto wrote:
Swerb wrote:Yeah, they can send BFran right back down if needbe.

And I still can't believe we gave Dellucci three years and all that jack.


My heart hopes that something is up with Dellucci. My head says no chance.


Well, Dellucci is playing today and got a hit, so he can't be hurt too badly.
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Unread postby consigliere » Tue May 01, 2007 9:42 pm

I'm still not all that upset about the Dellucci deal. The Michaels one is what puzzles me more, as well as the Nixon deal. Would have rather gone with B-Fran/Choo combo there as our 3rd/4th OF with Sizemore and Dellucci #1/#2.
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Unread postby neoleo » Tue May 01, 2007 10:08 pm

To me, it looks like Choo is shipping out when Lee comes off the DL on thursday, otherwise this makes little sense. They stated previously that they would wait until the last possible minute to make a decision on Carmona. Why would you risk sending him down if they only planned on having Francisco up for 2 days? What do they have do if one of the starters gets hurt and placed on the DL before thursday? They would be without the services of Carmona for 10 days and they would have to make another short term move just to fill out the rotation. That's why I would've just kept Carmona on the roster until Lee came off to take his place. At that point, if they wanted to swith Choo and Francisco, they could've done it then.
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Unread postby consigliere » Tue May 01, 2007 10:10 pm

The 10-day real does not apply if there is an injury. If a starter were to get hurt, Carmona could be re-called immediately.
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Unread postby neoleo » Tue May 01, 2007 10:18 pm

Well, the move makes perfect sense then.
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Unread postby paulcousineau » Wed May 02, 2007 4:10 pm

The Nixon/Dellucci/Michaels signings, to me, were the biggest condemnation of the Indians' opinions of their young OF.

If they TRULY thought that Gutierrez/Choo/Francisco projected to everyday OF, they wouldn't have given the multi-year deals to Michaels and Dellucci.

Figure in their high opinion of Crowe (which I pray is valid) and the Indians showed zero confidence in any of the youngsters being able to contribute this year or next.
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Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed May 02, 2007 4:12 pm

The DiaTriber wrote:Figure in their high opinion of Crowe (which I pray is valid) and the Indians showed zero confidence in any of the youngsters being able to contribute this year or next.


Crowe's really scuffling at Akron this year. Anyone have any information as to why he's well below the Mendoza line?
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Unread postby consigliere » Wed May 02, 2007 4:51 pm

Yes, it was a clear signal that the Indians are not prepared to give any of Choo/Gutierrez/Francisco starting gigs. Although, the org does like those guys enough to consider them for backup outfield slots. Any of Gutierrez/B-Fran should have been the 4th outfielder, and not Michaels. And, an argument can still be made Choo was better to go with than Nixon.....although Nixon has been a nice surprise so far.

Just goes back to the one thing that I criticize Shapiro most on: he doesn't believe in his prospects. He's gunshy after what happened with BP and Guthrie and how they pushed them too fast too soon to where now he coddles them to ridiculous lengths.
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